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Why are several PS4 Pro games arbitrarily locking 1080p users out of downsampling?

Heartfyre

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Jan 12, 2013
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Shame about supersampling, but at least the standard "PS4" setting on Pro will have a performance increase at 1080p.

It was the only mode they originally announced at the EU Fan Fest press event.
 

Gestault

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Oct 18, 2012
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  • Poorly developed tools
  • Lazy devs
  • Phil Spencer
  • Obama
  • Various small and annoying practicalities that don't have a satisfying answer

This is an annoying oversight, but from what we're hearing, the further we get from the Pro launch, the less frequent it'll become. I think some devs may be gun-shy about having a mode that may have more performance fluctuations than the standard PS4. The power balance is in play, and that's a funny proposition for console audiences.
 

Vashetti

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Oct 3, 2012
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From whom? It seems as if you and few people in this thread missed the fact that Sony doesn't dictate these implementation to devs. They also didn't do so for ND. The idea is that developers have the choice to use the power as they see fit. This is an issue you would need to address the developer of said games. You use the term "Arbitrarily" and that is not how these choices work. This doesn't happen overnight and these titles do have a submission process for the updates. What Sony did mandate was performance in relation to PS4 release, supposedly. So if the implementation of supersampling causes the title to perform worse than that may be a reason devs chose to remove it.

Downsampling a 4K image to 1080p is identical performance to rendering that 4K image.

That's why I use the term 'arbitrarily'. Digital Foundry have corroborated this in their testings. When the Pro is connected to a 4K TV, you can freely change between the 2160p and 1080p resolutions in display settings.

That's why they're so flummoxed at Naughty Dog fixing TLOU's performance on PS4 Pro for all users and then stripping out the downsampling option for 1080p users.

Also this:

But what Yamauchi didn't share is how Gran Turismo Sport aims to support PlayStation 4 Pro users with their consoles attached to standard 1080p displays - and there's both good news and bad news here. To address the key negative point first, Polyphony Digital joins the ranks of developers that have decided not to support 4K downsampling for 1080p users. In fact, stacking up the beta's visuals on both base and Pro hardware, we could find no visual improvement whatsoever between the two consoles. It's disappointing because on a technical level, there is no reason whatsoever why this feature cannot be implemented.

This is proven very easily. If you have an ultra HD screen, you can boot the game with 4K display output active, then jump back to the front-end, select 1080p and gameplay continues as normal with system-level super-sampling engaged. However, if you only own a 1080p screen, there's no way to access the 4K output to begin with - unless you buy an expensive 4K downscaler like HDFury's HDLinker. That's why we need the developer to provide an in-game toggle, or at the very least an option to choose which Pro implementation to use when the game boots.

http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/digitalfoundry-2017-gran-turismo-sport-ps4-pro-analysis
 

spectator

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Jul 21, 2015
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The fact that the majority of affected titles continue to be coming from first-party devs gives me some hope that the reason is because of a system-wide solution in the next OS update, but how long can I cling to that little dream? And how long do we have to wait for the update if that's what's happening?
 

Vashetti

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Oct 3, 2012
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The fact that the majority of affected titles continue to be coming from first-party devs gives me some hope that the reason is because of a system-wide solution in the next OS update, but how long can I cling to that little dream? And how long do we have to wait for the update if that's what's happening?

Major PS4 firmwares are on a 6 month schedule.

4.50 released in March, so expect September for 5.00
 
Jun 6, 2012
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Ugh, GT Sport also not? This is crazy. We neeld to do something but what? At least we can twitter like Vashetti but maybe we should contact DF or Sony directly but I am just an ordinary powerless Dutch guy.
 

Arttemis

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Jul 11, 2013
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I'm not buying a 4K TV until HDMI 2.1 is supported. It's nuts that my PS4 Pro will be locked out of supersampling for so many games on the mean time.
 

pottuvoi

Banned
May 17, 2010
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Ugh, GT Sport also not? This is crazy. We neeld to do something but what? At least we can twitter like Vashetti but maybe we should contact DF or Sony directly but I am just an ordinary powerless Dutch guy.
They do use better AA method which gives better edge quality than downsampling from 1800c.
 

Vashetti

Banned
Oct 3, 2012
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Nex Machina

I played Nex Machina on the PS4 Pro and the picture quality is very good and sharp. On the regular Playstation 4 you get a 900p or 1600×900 resolution. On the Playstation 4 Pro you get a native 1080p image if you are using an 1080p set. If you’re a 4K TV owner you get a nice boost with Nex Machina, running at 3360×1890. Not quite Native 4K but the game still looks amazingly sharp on a 4K screen.

http://p4gamers.com/nex-machina-review-twin-stick-awesomeness/
 

Vashetti

Banned
Oct 3, 2012
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Final Fantasy XII: The Zodiac Age

Thanks for the shots! I'd like to give you better news, but I'm pretty sure there's no downsampling. Also, the high-res version seems to be rendering at 1440p; I got a couple larger counts as well, but nothing cleanly divisible. The relatively slight difference between 1080p and 1440p often leads to this difficulty, so I wouldn't put much confidence in the slight variability of my results. The lower number is much more likely.

Fuck you Square Enix
 
Jun 16, 2016
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1080p owners were mislead, plain and simple. Really pissed me off when they took it out of the Last of Us. This console was a huge waste of money for me.0
 

Tyraniboah

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Feb 22, 2015
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Is it worth getting a PS4 Pro if I have a high end PC? I want to play Horizon and the Uncharted series. That's about it really. I was thinking about grabbing a really cheap base model for under $200 as I'm not anal about frame rate or anything. But if the Pro is that much better then I'll consider it. The impressions on the Pro seem to be all over the place
 

Ahasverus

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Is it worth getting a PS4 Pro if I have a high end PC? I want to play Horizon and the Uncharted series. That's about it really. I was thinking about grabbing a really cheap base model for under $200 as I'm not anal about frame rate or anything. But if the Pro is that much better then I'll consider it. The impressions on the Pro seem to be all over the place
Not if you don't have a 4K tv. All exclusives run great on amateur PS4.
 

burgerdog

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Apr 24, 2007
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How does Square go from giving players options with FF15(their first pro title) to screw you 1080p guys.
 

Wiped89

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May 12, 2015
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Anyone who bought a PS4 Pro for a 1080p TV is a bit of a mug tbh (sorry).

I do feel a bit like Sony tried to position it as being good for 1080p owners as well just in case 4K TV adoption didn't take off. Now that it has, they can focus on 4K users.
 

OfTheOverflow

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Aug 18, 2015
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Why the hell is this not system-level? Games that are downsam look incredible on my screen and I can absolutely tell the difference. WipEout Omega Collection downsampled looks brearhta.
 

Ahasverus

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Anyone who bought a PS4 Pro for a 1080p TV is a bit of a mug tbh (sorry).

I do feel a bit like Sony tried to position it as being good for 1080p owners as well just in case 4K TV adoption didn't take off. Now that it has, they can focus on 4K users.
The thing is it has no reason not to be good for 1080p. Downsampling is not some arcane technology, is literarily a turning a fucking switch. The console already does downsampling to 720p.

Not like 4k support has been stellar either. The Pro is half assed as fuck.
 

Pancake Mix

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Jun 11, 2015
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It's especially weird as a 720p TV user with an OG PS4 since launch. System downsamples perfectly, usually from 1080p.
 

OuterLimits

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Apr 25, 2014
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The thing is it has no reason not to be good for 1080p. Downsampling is not some arcane technology, is literarily a turning a fucking switch. The console already does downsampling to 720p.

Not like 4k support has been stellar either. The Pro is half assed as fuck.

Yeah. I haven't been overly impressed with my Pro purchase. Granted, my original PS4 died, so I was going to get a replacement anyway, but I probably should have just gotten another regular PS4.

I'm hoping this eventually gets resolved but I'm not expecting it.
 

wtd2009

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Jan 1, 2016
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This problem sure is saving me a lot of money. Gotta look at it in some kind of positive way...
Yeah, that plus a lack of killer benefits for games like Witcher 3 or bloodborne is making me even more inclined to just get a slim when the time finally comes. Also won't be getting a new TV until my 1080p burns out,and just picked it up 3 years ago.
 

Liabe Brave

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Jan 23, 2007
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it's only 1440p when the KH Collection is 4k60? wut
It does seem a little odd. But a slight difference is that the Kingdom Hearts releases have no AA at all, and very little in the way of complicated textures. Whereas Zodiac Age is basically a giant pile of complicated textures. I'd still like to have seen more improvement, though.
 

mieumieu

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Mar 19, 2015
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It does seem a little odd. But a slight difference is that the Kingdom Hearts releases have no AA at all, and very little in the way of complicated textures. Whereas Zodiac Age is basically a giant pile of complicated textures. I'd still like to have seen more improvement, though.

redone lighting system, (probably) MSAA and copious amounts of post processing could be the reason.
 
Jul 29, 2013
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Sony is a company that sells TVs as well. Microsoft doesn't. I wish I was wrong, but that's how I see it.

And in case anyone has doubts about ND patches serving Sony's best interests:

http://uncharted.wikia.com/wiki/Uncharted_3:_Drake's_Deception_patches

Patch 1.01

Prove me wrong, Sony.

Pretty sure you're wrong.

MS are much better/stronger in enforcing standards across their games libraries/environments.

This is reminiscent of the scaling situation last gen. MS included dedicated hardware for scaling, and everything was handled consistently on an OS level across all games. Sony added scaling capabilities a while after the console launch, but it wasn't a system wide feature. Existing games had to be updated, and IIRC it was only a horizontal scaler. So devs needed to render non-standard resolutions to make use of it.

I'd be surprised if downsampling wasn't impacting performance, leading devs to just leave that feature off, rather than lower the quality of their 4K mode.
 

Vashetti

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Oct 3, 2012
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Pretty sure you're wrong.

MS are much better/stronger in enforcing standards across their games libraries/environments.

This is reminiscent of the scaling situation last gen. MS included dedicated hardware for scaling, and everything was handled consistently on an OS level across all games. Sony added scaling capabilities a while after the console launch, but it wasn't a system wide feature. Existing games had to be updated, and IIRC it was only a horizontal scaler. So devs needed to render non-standard resolutions to make use of it.

I'd be surprised if downsampling wasn't impacting performance, leading devs to just leave that feature off, rather than lower the quality of their 4K mode.

*bangs head against wall*
 

Lord Error

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Jun 8, 2004
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Anyone who bought a PS4 Pro for a 1080p TV is a bit of a mug tbh (sorry).
Please don't talk about this without first hand experience. It's a nearly completely false assessment - I'd only say it's true if you have an incredibly disproportional investment into few games that don't support downsampling. Even of those that don't (like TLG) 1080p mode is essentially better (in that case offering more stable frame rate, in a game that very much needs it).
 

Napalm_Frank

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Jun 27, 2011
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This is the big reason why I'm not buying a Pro before downsampling is patched in as a OS option like boost mode was. There are just too many developers ignoring it.
 

Occam

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Oct 15, 2013
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After PS4 Pro launched, I made a thread about how all new PS4 games should have a a few simple mandatory graphical options on PS4 Pro. The thread got less than two pages of replies.
Even here, no one cared.
 

Sniffynose

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Nov 19, 2012
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After PS4 Pro launched, I made a thread about how all new PS4 games should have a a few simple mandatory graphical options on PS4 Pro. The thread got less than two pages of replies.
Even here, no one cared.

Same and I got shit all over for being upset with how things were being handled and told there's no way a system wide option could enable pro mode for older games etc, and yet here we are, have a Pro Mode option but still getting shitty half assed downsampling support and random options (if any) on a game by game basis /shrug
 

Saitama

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Feb 21, 2013
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I recently got a PS4 Pro and I game on a 1440p monitor. Idk how this kinda stuff works but couldn't Sony release a patch so the console could use the 1440p resolution as well? Are is there more to it and the devs would actually have to patch their games to work with that resolution?
 

Melchiah

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I'm still salty about TLOU debacle.

1080p owners were mislead, plain and simple. Really pissed me off when they took it out of the Last of Us.

Agreed. I was absolutely livid, since it was removed while I was playing the game through. I haven't touched it since. It's all the more annoying, that this bullshit makes me feel bitter about one of my favorite games.