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Why are several PS4 Pro games arbitrarily locking 1080p users out of downsampling?

sn0man

Member
Nov 23, 2013
1,218
757
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This is one of the main reasons I worry for the support on xbonx

My understanding is that Microsoft is making it a fundamental feature of the xbonx at an OS level.

... I'll go look...

Edit:

"Regular Digital Foundry readers will know that we've been vocal about all PS4 Pro modes being available to all users, regardless of the display attached to the console. Performance modes should be accessible to 4K users, while ultra HD rendering should super-sample down for those 1080p displays. Microsoft takes care of this at the platform level, and it requires that all titles should run at the same frame-rate or higher as the standard Xbox One. [UPDATE: Microsoft has clarified that 1080p supersampling is handled at the system level with higher resolution rendering modes as opposed to imposing this on the developer"

http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/digitalfoundry-2017-project-scorpio-tech-revealed
 

Neith

Banned
Apr 25, 2017
1,546
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Fuck this 1080p bull crap. Give us system wide controls damn it!

(goes back to play BB and cries)
 

dan2026

Member
Jul 10, 2012
11,216
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I just don't understand this at all, I don't get it.

Has there been any word at all from Sony on this?
 

Kinyou

Member
Sep 12, 2009
48,196
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975
I just don't understand this at all, I don't get it.

Has there been any word at all from Sony on this?
Don't think so
Just have to imagine that this is their way of trying to push 4k tvs.

Wish some journalists would grill them over this
 
Feb 25, 2017
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For TLoU: Remastered, part of it was because people complained that the framerate dropped lower than the PS4 version while supersampling. Doesn't make it right, but that's what happened.

Also, I wouldn't be surprised if Sony implemented a downsampling option in their firmware in the future to fix this issue.

Yeah people complained that "OG PS4 ran the game faster than the Pro at the same resolution" ignoring the fact it was downsampling.
 

2blackcats

Member
May 6, 2014
2,933
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Don't think so
Just have to imagine that this is their way of trying to push 4k tvs.

Wish some journalists would grill them over this

I really don't think it's to sell 4K TVs.

I wish a developer could chime in with an opinion.
 

Vashetti

Banned
Oct 3, 2012
20,159
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Yeah people complained that "OG PS4 ran the game faster than the Pro at the same resolution" ignoring the fact it was downsampling.

How many times are we going to do this?

Naughty Dog fixed the performance in TLOU and still removed downsampling.

4K display owners can set their Pro's to 1080p and the game will downsample at no performance cost, DF have tested this.
 

Kinyou

Member
Sep 12, 2009
48,196
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I really don't think it's to sell 4K TVs.
True, the theory is a bit out there, especially because i can't imagine this would push sells in any meaningful way, but it's the only reason I can think of why anyone would be against offering downsampling.
I wish a developer could chime in with an opinion.
That's also one of those weird things, I don't think any devs have commented on it. Makes me think this is somehow decided by Sony and the devs aren't allowed to talk about it.
 

dan2026

Member
Jul 10, 2012
11,216
1
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It's shit like this that is kind of pushing me away from console gaming.
It just shows how little these companies really care.
 

2blackcats

Member
May 6, 2014
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True, the theory is a bit out there, especially because i can't imagine this would push sells in any meaningful way, but it's the only reason I can think of why anyone would be against offering downsampling.

That's also one of those weird things, I don't think any devs have commented on it. Makes me think this is somehow decided by Sony and the devs aren't allowed to talk about it.

I don't think enough games are unsupported for it to be mandated.

Do all (or most) of these games have anything else in common? Maybe there's a pattern.
 

mullet2000

Member
Mar 19, 2011
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Downsampling should be in, but frankly, I think there's virtually no way that devs are being told not to include it.

It's most likely as simple as devs not seeing the value in it or not even realizing that people want it. The amount of people who even know what downsampling is is pretty small, let alone the amount of people who know what it is, are really invested in resolutions/image quality, own a PS4 Pro, and don't own a 4k TV.

Again, this should 100% be a system wide feature, but it's mostly likely just a case it being overlooked by a lot of devs.
 

Reallink

Member
Jan 7, 2008
6,397
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How many times are we going to do this?

Naughty Dog fixed the performance in TLOU and still removed downsampling.

4K display owners can set their Pro's to 1080p and the game will downsample at no performance cost, DF have tested this.

TLOU situation is a vindictive screw you revenge move in response to the press and forum/social media warriors running with those inflammatory headlines and drivebys.
 

2blackcats

Member
May 6, 2014
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Anyone on twitter fancy sending message to each of the devs with unsupported games?

A bit of a mission, but a polite question might get an answer.
 

blastprocessor

The Amiga Brotherhood
Jun 13, 2013
4,454
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The PS4 already down samples from 1080p to 720p so the mind boggles why Sony didn't do that from 4k to 1080p. There must be some technical reason why they are not doing this.
 

2blackcats

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May 6, 2014
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The PS4 already down samples from 1080p to 720p so the mind boggles why Sony didn't do that from 4k to 1080p. There must be some technical reason why they are not doing this.

Does it really down sample or does the the game itself change to 720p output? Maybe 720p and 1080p support is mandated?
 

VDenter

Banned
Jul 5, 2016
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So there are barely any advantages to getting a Pro over the base model if you have 1080p screen?
 

Durante

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Oct 1, 2006
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True, the theory is a bit out there, especially because i can't imagine this would push sells in any meaningful way, but it's the only reason I can think of why anyone would be against offering downsampling.

That's also one of those weird things, I don't think any devs have commented on it. Makes me think this is somehow decided by Sony and the devs aren't allowed to talk about it.
I think that's extremely far fetched.

Devs won't comment because who really wants to go on record saying "we don't care enough about the subset of users who desire this feature to implement it".
Sony won't comment because there is absolutely no way to justify it not being part of the OS.
 

Tyaren

Member
Mar 12, 2016
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I think/I hope that Sony will have to finally address the lack of downsampling for many games when the Xbox One X launches and from that point on won't just outperform the Pro with any multiplatform game, but will also always include downsampling, while the Pro for some strange reason won't. At least in this regard Sony can strive for parity with the Xbox One X if they want to...and I hope they will want to.
 

family_guy

Member
Mar 17, 2013
9,675
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No, they don't give a shit. It's why recommending a Pro to a 1080p owner is a no-go.

More stable performance, better graphical improvements, no games at sub-1080p? Play stuff like Horizon Zero Dawn, and Rise of the Tomb Raider in their enhanced 1080p visuals modes or Nioh at 1080p 60fps on the Pro vs 720p 60fps on the regular PS4. It's not a waste. It's all up to the developer ultimately.
 

Primethius

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Jan 20, 2008
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More stable performance, better graphical improvements, no games at sub-1080p? Play stuff like Horizon Zero Dawn, and Rise of the Tomb Raider in their enhanced 1080p visuals modes or Nioh at 1080p 60fps on the Pro vs 720p 60fps on the regular PS4. It's not a waste. It's all up to the developer ultimately.

Sure, it's not a complete waste. I own a Pro and a 1080p TV.

You know what is a waste? Playing a game that could look so much better if there was system wide downsampling. But Sony apparently doesn't care enough to implement that. So as a 1080p TV owner, not only do you have to hope for good Pro implementation, you have to hope that the devs pick up the slack so that you can actually see some of the benefits of a Pro on your TV.

It's so great that Naughty Dog removed downsampling from TLOU. Now as a 1080p owner, I make absolutely no use of my Pro! Just what I wanted! /s
 
Jul 25, 2011
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It boggles the mind that if downsampling is really that easy why Sony or most devs wouldn't take advantage of it. I mean, does it affect the frame rates?
 

Vashetti

Banned
Oct 3, 2012
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It boggles the mind that if downsampling is really that easy why Sony or most devs wouldn't take advantage of it. I mean, does it affect the frame rates?

No. DF have tested it.

If you're on a 4K TV, you can set the Pro to 1080p and the games will downsample. Connect to a 1080p TV? No go.

Set a standard PS4 to 720p, the games are still rendering at 900p/1080p.
 
Jul 25, 2011
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No. DF have tested it.

If you're on a 4K TV, you can set the Pro to 1080p and the games will downsample. Connect to a 1080p TV? No go.

Set a standard PS4 to 720p, the games are still rendering at 900p/1080p.

Well that's some bullshit

Frustrating as a 1080p tv owner. I'd be more pissed if I had to pay for my Pro though but still, knowing it's doable and it's not enabled fucking sucks.
 

anothertech

Member
Oct 1, 2014
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It's mind boggling. I mean, some devs are REMOVING the options from the game. It makes no sense.
 

2blackcats

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May 6, 2014
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A (dev) friend of mine says it's done by the Pro dev kit pretty much automatically and all they have to do is give the option through a menu or force it. And of course test it :p

So, yeah it seems pretty simple once it's already up and running in 4K.

Ffs.
 

dmix90

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Sep 8, 2013
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A (dev) friend of mine says it's done by the Pro dev kit pretty much automatically and all they have to do is give the option through a menu or force it. And of course test it :p

So, yeah it seems pretty simple once it's already up and running in 4K.
Wow.

But still you simply should not trust developers to not fuck up especially if there is a way to easily avoid potential issue on system level.