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Why are several PS4 Pro games arbitrarily locking 1080p users out of downsampling?
- Thread starter Vashetti
- Start date
From Eurogamer/Digital Foundry:
http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/d...-us-remastered-patch-108-for-ps4-pro-analysed
They fixed performance for 4K and 1080p display users, and for no apparent reason removed the option to downsample for 1080p users.
Good.
why would sony want to help samsung and vizio like that
Yautja_Warrior
Member
With Scorpio going for system level supersampling and developers seem to have stopped including the option on the Pro lately, do you think Sony are planning to announce system level supersampling at E3 ?
That is the only good reason I could think of, as to why developers have stopped including supersampling on Pro.
If Sony don't plan on doing that though, they really need to start telling developers to include it now, because it doesn't make sense that early games include it and more recent games don't, even Uncharted 4 and Horizon do supersampling and they are two of the most technically impressive / graphically demanding games on they system.
That is the only good reason I could think of, as to why developers have stopped including supersampling on Pro.
If Sony don't plan on doing that though, they really need to start telling developers to include it now, because it doesn't make sense that early games include it and more recent games don't, even Uncharted 4 and Horizon do supersampling and they are two of the most technically impressive / graphically demanding games on they system.
Could be.
It certaily should be very easy thing to do.
Simple option for always downsample 4k buffer to 1080p output.
Additional scaling options would be nice. (Box, gaussian etc.)
Mister Wolf
Member
Sony wants you guys to buy brand new Sony 4K TVs.
texhnolyze
Banned
But they've already coded it into the metal. It won't be that easy.
arhra
Member
Downsampling should have basically zero impact on performance.
If the framerate is suboptimal when downsampled to 1080p, to the point that 1080p TV owners shouldn't be subjected to it, then it's still going to be suboptimal at 4k, and 4k TV owners shouldn't be subjected to it either.
Either the performance of the >1080p mode is acceptable, in which case it should offer downsampling to give 1080p TVs better image quality, or the performance is unacceptable, in which case they should drop the resolution until it is acceptable (and still offer downsampling for 1080p TVs).
Assuming their video output hardware is capable of doing the downsampling transparently (the same way it downsamples 1080 to 720 if you have the output set to that), it shouldn't be hard - issue an SDK update that deprecates whatever methods games are using to detect the TV type, and mandate that all performance/resolution options are offered to users via in-game menus for future games. For games built on older SDKs, spoof the TV output setting, and always respond as if a 4k TV is connected.
The only problem then would be the occasional game with no in-game settings, but where the high-res mode has a shoddy framerate, while the 1080p mode has no downsampling, but solid framerate, making the 1080p mode the preferred experience, even if it means changing the output setting manually if you have a 4k TV (yes, The Last Guardian, I'm looking at you). Maybe they could have a toggle in the settings alongside the Boost Mode option, if that was felt to be a big enough issue (or they could just patch the goddamn game).
davidwhangchoi
Member
i want my downsampling
UberTag
Member
My counter... Sony doesn't want me to upgrade my PS4 to a Pro.
Sad Affleck
Member
Is it possible that there's some sort of issue or bug with checkerboarding and downsampling?
Melchiah
Member
There were absolutely no performance issues in the locked 30fps mode with supersampling, which was removed after minor framerate issues in the 60fps mode created bad publicity. Without those unflattering headlines following the release of Pro, we who prefer quality over performance could still be playing the game in that mode.
Frostman
Member
No, I don't think so. Considering it works just fine on the games that do support it (HZD, RoTR etc)
reptilescorpio
Member
This really did seem like it had an impact in the decisions
Comments like this really annoy me. Horizon released 2 months ago. Probably the best looking game I've ever played and it supports downsampling. Yes it should be system wide but lets not spout nonsense.
Melchiah
Member
If Sony had monopoly, they'd have "exclusive control of a commodity or service in a particular market, or a control that makes possible the manipulation of prices", which isn't the case. It's not like there isn't competition in the gaming market.
texhnolyze
Banned
I mean, people have been telling us that patching games with Pro mode would be easy.
And yet here we are, some devs are still struggling with it. Even Prey could get away with not giving Pro support at all.
Freeman76
Member
Its not nonsense at all, you just disagree with it. This should be system wide and it isnt because sony dont have to try atm. Fact.
KratosEnergyDrink
Member
So perhaps this is the way most games would be with supersampling on PS4Pro, and therefore it would take extra development time, so the devs don't bother. It's not like the Pro is selling hot, its still a very niche market.
Rellik
Member
All Sony are doing with this is pushing me back to Xbox.
It has compiled executable, thus it has pro mode.
I do not see them to be strugling with it. (No crashes etc.)
It's more about allocating resources for additional features when having crunch to finalize the game.
Melchiah
Member
That doesn't explain the removal of supersampled 30fps mode from TLOU remaster though.
Sad Affleck
Member
I don't think it has anything to do with Sony's sales domination. It seems to me that the product was rushed to market without Sony having a clear idea of the features it should have at a base level and the policies that Sony should have mandated regarding its support. Right now there is a not insignificant number of games out there in which PS4 Pro's enhancements compared to PS4 for 1080p TVs amount to little more than slightly higher framerates.
Yautja_Warrior
Member
Yeah I would have thought that would be possible to do and definitely seems like the best solution at this point.
Indeed.
Removal of already released features is strange.
Melchiah
Member
Not to mention, that it still remains unchanged in the official EU blog:
https://blog.eu.playstation.com/201...-4-and-the-last-of-us-remastered-for-ps4-pro/
No such benefit for 1080p users anymore, eventhough it was and still is advertised.
Haribokart
Banned
System-wide downsampling announcement at E3? I cannot imagine the general opinion on this issue (and what MS are doing) has gone unnoticed by Sony, and it would explain why dev support for the feature has basically been dropped.
nelsonroyale
Member
This needs to be addressed and I put responsibility with Sony. Frankly, it will be a long time until I upgrade to 4K. PS5 or beyond.
Melchiah
Member
Agreed. It's quite likely, that the PS5 will be out by the time 55" full-array HDMI 2.1 LEDs will be affordable (below 1000). I won't be buying a 4K TV before that. Unfortunately, at the moment it seems like 1080p Pro users are increasingly being neglected when it comes to image quality.
That's the hope, but it's weird that Sony would keep so quiet about it
(then again, they also kept the boost mode a secret and that was also something people had been eagerly asking for)
rokkerkory
Member
Hopefully sony will follow suit here and have SS hardwired for HD screens. Should be an option.
FFXII sounding as though 1080p displays will be ignored when it ships next month:
https://blog.eu.playstation.com/201...antasy-xii-the-zodiac-ages-new-story-trailer/
https://blog.eu.playstation.com/201...antasy-xii-the-zodiac-ages-new-story-trailer/
Liabe Brave
Member
I don't know whether Zodiac Age will downsample or not, but the statement you quoted doesnt imply either way. Resolution can only increase with a 4K display, so not mentioning 1080p screens isn't suggestive, it's simply correct.
David Ricardo
Member
Later in the same video he said the PS4 pro can downscale 4k to 1080p so 1080p users can enjoy the extra whatever...
So, no more excuses Sony...
HeavenlyStriker
Member
biggest reason imo
Final Fantasy XIV when the new expansion Stormblood/patch 4.0 releases
http://eu.finalfantasyxiv.com/lodestone/topics/detail/fe38225b3d83e182213d5a4a99dc705ae58ea156
http://eu.finalfantasyxiv.com/lodestone/topics/detail/fe38225b3d83e182213d5a4a99dc705ae58ea156
staticneuron
Member
From whom? It seems as if you and few people in this thread missed the fact that Sony doesn't dictate these implementation to devs. They also didn't do so for ND. The idea is that developers have the choice to use the power as they see fit. This is an issue you would need to address the developer of said games. You use the term "Arbitrarily" and that is not how these choices work. This doesn't happen overnight and these titles do have a submission process for the updates. What Sony did mandate was performance in relation to PS4 release, supposedly. So if the implementation of supersampling causes the title to perform worse than that may be a reason devs chose to remove it.
Downsampling a 4K image to 1080p is identical performance to rendering that 4K image.
That's why I use the term 'arbitrarily'. Digital Foundry have corroborated this in their testings. When the Pro is connected to a 4K TV, you can freely change between the 2160p and 1080p resolutions in display settings.
That's why they're so flummoxed at Naughty Dog fixing TLOU's performance on PS4 Pro for all users and then stripping out the downsampling option for 1080p users.
Was just poking around for this thread to post this. So, so, so dumb.