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Why are women portrayed as an angry, hysterical, mentally ill creatures in AAA games this gen?

Tschumi

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They're just fitting into game tropes and filling in the roles they're being assigned as main characters.

Kratos. For one. Evidence that this isn't a 'new' treatment that's only reserved for female main characters.
 
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ShadowWolf712

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In old games we had female characters fighting zombies, monsters and armed men, and they were cool, strong and confident. they also showed emotions like fear, anger and sadness but they wasn't hysterical or made weird ugly faces to show that they are mentally unstable, is this a new trend i'm unaware of?

Context, what's that?

Also: because people suck at writing other people. It's part of why men are often so emotionally stunted in games too. And often, when trying to go against the grain, games wind up going too far in the other direction for both. Emotionally stunted women, hysterical and unstable men. There've been some pretty cool ladies this gen though, including Aloy and Jesse Faden.

That being said... Ellie has a reason for being like this. As does Senua. Can't speak for the other two, but to remove a character's actions and behavior from their context don't work.

(Also I'm pretty sure Celtic war chants kinda aren't meant to be stable and serene.)
 

MayauMiao

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In old games we had female characters fighting zombies, monsters and armed men, and they were cool, strong and confident. they also showed emotions like fear, anger and sadness but they wasn't hysterical or made weird ugly faces to show that they are mentally unstable, is this a new trend i'm unaware of?

Another example of trying to be so "badass" it comes off as very cringe.

 

Somnium

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Western devs cant make women without an overdose of testosterone.

Feminism requirements.
I wouldn't say this is always the case with every western developer, although I would agree there is some truth to this.
When many of these western developers are engaging in affirmative action and diversity hiring policies, lead by feminist & intersectionality ideology, it not surprising to see that be reflected in the creative process.
 
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Tschumi

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To further my initial point:



Yes these women are being portrayed in entirely unreasonably emotional ways.

PUKE.
 

Silvawuff

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Completely disagree. I think the reason women are less attractive and more angry/rage filled has zero to do with appealing to males (who want to look at beautiful women) but an attempt to paint females as 'just like guys, look how strong they are' so they take a handful of typically male characteristics (anger, strength/body composition) and shove women into that mold and try to style themselves as being 'progressive' and 'breaking stereotypes'. These people think strong women must necessarily be overly masculine or angry, to the point where the viewer is unclear what sex they are really meant to be.

If it were truly left up to the mostly male audience, you'd get attractive strong women like Samus Aran or Ripley. Or fan service characters.

Not whatever misguided room temperature IQ blue haired low-T frappuccino bullshit this is that's being defecated out of coastal cities.

It really is astounding, because rather than champion the litany of feminine virtues that truly belong to women they instead erase it all in an effort to simply make them men.
I think your take here is pushing some very heavy stereotypes, and assumptions that everyone else wants the same things you do. When I said "mainstream appeal" that doesn't mean "guys want to look at women who are beautiful" (heavy paraphrasing here), it's more like female characters who are easier for guys to relate to? Appeal doesn't always have to be about sex and visual design. Maybe looking at women entering different roles (matriarchal, siblings, friends) is what takes men out of their comfort zone? Again, heavy conjecture here -- I'm not a guy, so I can't say for sure what guys want out of a "good" female character outside of sex appeal. Your example with Samus falls a bit flat -- she's a silent protagonist and, playing through the mainline Metroid games, you don't see a lot of her as a developing character.

I feel the bit about women taking more masculine traits to curb appeal/pander is a different conversation. There can be good female characters that can be strong and have good feminine virtues that don't cross any lines, like the examples I gave in my initial post. Not everything exists in a binary, or comes from a coastal city.
 

Razvedka

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I think your take here is pushing some very heavy stereotypes, and assumptions that everyone else wants the same things you do.
I am quite comfortable falling on my own sword with this assumption with respect to the mainstream male audience in gaming (what actually makes money w/ men and interests them).

When I said "mainstream appeal" that doesn't mean "guys want to look at women who are beautiful" (heavy paraphrasing here), it's more like female characters who are easier for guys to relate to?
Part of the problem surrounding more modern depictions of women in gaming isn't just that they look noticeably less attractive (e.g. 'uglified' in order to appease female jealousy) but that their behavior seems unnatural or erratic given their sex. e.g., women do not typically behave like men and vice versa. I suppose speaking for me personally here, and others can chime in, seeing a woman behave like an extremely enraged male does not help me identify with her. It actively pulls me out of the experience and makes me scratch my head.

Even males acting like some of these women would be strange in many instances, and not something I would identify with.

Maybe others are more rage filled than me? Sound off men, I guess. I welcome what others have to say about it.

Appeal doesn't always have to be about sex and visual design. Maybe looking at women entering different roles (matriarchal, siblings, friends) is what takes men out of their comfort zone?
But it often typically is. This is why despite women, as a trend but not a rule, being 'uglified' in gaming you don't see the male leads become equally less visually appealing. Because men don't complain about attractive male protagonists like women do when they see a character like Bayonetta or a busty Samus. It's sexual rationing behavior.

Also, why is it some sort of goal to have men 'taken out of their comfort zone' during gaming? The way you made this remark makes it seem as though it is self evident why this is desirable; I am not condemning, I just don't understand.

Again, heavy conjecture here -- I'm not a guy,
I can tell actually, and I do not mean any offense by that. You seem very opinionated on what it is like to think as a male, and there is nothing wrong with that. It's appreciated that someone would try to get into the headspace of another that isn't like them.

Still, I would say you're possibly projecting feminine sensibilities onto men that we might not share as a group (this is not to rule out individual preference, but there are such a thing as group characteristics).

so I can't say for sure what guys want out of a "good" female character outside of sex appeal. Your example with Samus falls a bit flat -- she's a silent protagonist and, playing through the mainline Metroid games, you don't see a lot of her as a developing character.
The point with Samus is that her character's sex was a surprise reveal and nobody cared. She was proven to be a bad ass, but she was also apparently gorgeous and very feminine. She didn't exude male rage or anything that would try to 'make men identify' with her. Men identified with the highly trained female in power armor killing aliens the same way that they would have if she were male: killing aliens.

She was a bad ass because the player was completely immersed in her capabilities throughout the entire game with not a thought given to her biological sex. The games also didn't go out of their way to make some sort of political statement about it- after all, one would imagine that crazy advanced power armor is something of an equalizer when it comes to eliminating xenos.


[[Adeptas Sororitias Intensifies]]

To wit, she didn't need freakish Abbie muscles and rage fueled monologues to try and make guys get that she was tough. Samus isn't a try hard 2D political caricature of 'strong woman'. She's just strong and is very much a woman, and her design out of armor embraces that femininity.

I feel the bit about women taking more masculine traits to curb appeal/pander is a different conversation.
I personally believe it is one and the same conversation, at least in this instance.

There can be good female characters that can be strong and have good feminine virtues that don't cross any lines, like the examples I gave in my initial post. Not everything exists in a binary, or comes from a coastal city.
Of course there can. But the objective is for them to be strong women, and not all strength is explicitly within an overtly masculine context (or with masculine attributes taken to extremes). Ellen Ripley is a perfect example.
 
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lock2k

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In old games we had female characters fighting zombies, monsters and armed men, and they were cool, strong and confident. they also showed emotions like fear, anger and sadness but they wasn't hysterical or made weird ugly faces to show that they are mentally unstable, is this a new trend i'm unaware of?

Because feminists are retarded and they are the ones being portrayed this time.
 

Rodolink

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only thing that drives me out, is the uncanny valley. i just laugh or makes me feel weird instead of empathy when i see those characters "pissed off" or "sad" or"crying" still look like dolls or robots.
 
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#Phonepunk#

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They are written to appease an ideology that does not praise rationalism or critical thought, but emotions.

Social Justice types see art not as a medium of self expression but a tool to use for an ideology. Art exists to be used by activists for emotional propoganda. “will this trigger someone for/against our cause?” is the only question they are really concerned with. moral relativism denies that standards exist so we allow for worse and worse storytelling.

ultimately it’s no surprise that characters have gotten emotional, bitter, nihilistic, etc as the foundational ideology shares those same flaws
 

Silvawuff

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I am quite comfortable falling on my own sword with this assumption with respect to the mainstream male audience in gaming (what actually makes money w/ men and interests them)...
Hey, I wanted to thank you for taking the time to hash out your thoughts in response to mine. I enjoyed reading your reply and you've help expand my personal thoughts about this topic through our conversation. I don't have much else to say because you've done a good job clarifying your position and presented it to me clearly. It feels rare to have a chat like this because sometimes I feel a lot of underlying hostility that comes with a difference of ideas, at least in the limited context of an internet forum exchange. Cheers!
 
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x1
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In old games we had female characters fighting zombies, monsters and armed men, and they were cool, strong and confident. they also showed emotions like fear, anger and sadness but they wasn't hysterical or made weird ugly faces to show that they are mentally unstable, is this a new trend i'm unaware of?

it's called story telling. we could likely just as easily pull out "angry" photos of male characters in games. why are you trying to find something out of nothing. Most games are not rom coms lololol
 
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Jan 29, 2019
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Cloud is a dreamboy, ngl.
You did not pick the worst of cloud, he has flashbacks all the time... He is anything but sane.
If the west's goal was to turn me off of women, they've succeeded in doing that.
So the Japanese devs "made" you gay?
Things change
2000's

2010's
Miss Universe 1974 (from Lebanon)--I love women from that part of the world.


some other pic from that time:


One has to wonder which culture has the most influence.
 

Razvedka

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Hey, I wanted to thank you for taking the time to hash out your thoughts in response to mine. I enjoyed reading your reply and you've help expand my personal thoughts about this topic through our conversation. I don't have much else to say because you've done a good job clarifying your position and presented it to me clearly. It feels rare to have a chat like this because sometimes I feel a lot of underlying hostility that comes with a difference of ideas, at least in the limited context of an internet forum exchange. Cheers!
I enjoyed our talk too, it was civil and informative. I would like to apologize for the hyperbole in my initial post though; I fully admit I do that for effect and that it can put me in a negative light. A stylistic choice, you could say.

Your points though were novel to me because I can't recall actually hearing that particular argument before. That the women were made this way in modern gaming for men to empathize better with them, it put me back for a few moments and I had to digest it.

Hopefully we'll continue to cross paths and share quality discourse. Hope your week is well.
 
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Ozrimandias

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So this thread became an interest reunion

Between political fanatic and men who haven't had a girlfriend or haven't dated a woman
 

Grinchy

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So this thread became an interest reunion

Between political fanatic and men who haven't had a girlfriend or haven't dated a woman
wtf is an "interest reunion?"

Is that where you have a long-term, increasing interest rate and your current rate meets up with all the previous interest rates from the past?
 
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idrago01

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They are written to appease an ideology that does not praise rationalism or critical thought, but emotions.

Social Justice types see art not as a medium of self expression but a tool to use for an ideology. Art exists to be used by activists for emotional propoganda. “will this trigger someone for/against our cause?” is the only question they are really concerned with. moral relativism denies that standards exist so we allow for worse and worse storytelling.

ultimately it’s no surprise that characters have gotten emotional, bitter, nihilistic, etc as the foundational ideology shares those same flaws
This is it in a nut shell, we’re not seeing art or creative intent or the desire to tell a good story, it’s now just agenda pushing. A lot of people are employed in games, comics, movies purely just to push their ideology and encourage the normalization of ideas that were at one point considered unnatural and abhorrent.