Why aren't visual novels a valid development path in the West?

[Deft Beck]

It seems like a low-budget path that has an emphasis on story while being able to present a narrative in a somewhat interactive way. However, they only seem to be found in the East, and often in adult form (with exceptions.)

Adventure games could be seen as a contemporary to this, but less so as the boundaries between genres blur.

What's the case here?

 

[The Technomancer]

Because BioWare still insists on having combat in their games.

 

[Lucentto]

Because people in the West don't have a large enough attention span for them.

 

[ShaneB]

Not enough guns and shooting apparently

 

[survivor]

I don't understand why there isn't a strong indie scene for them here in the west like in Japan. The shit can't be that hard programming wise or budget wise compared to other genres.

 

[kokujin]

It seems like a low-budget path that has an emphasis on story while being able to present a narrative in a somewhat interactive way. However, they only seem to be found in the East, and often in adult form (with exceptions.)

Adventure games could be seen as a contemporary to this, but less so as the boundaries between genres blur.

What's the case here?

I'd rather read a book.Games like Phoenix Wright are ok though, but if it is less engaging than that then no go.

Because people in the West don't have a large enough attention span for them.

People in the west prefer their books without pictures.

 

[The Technomancer]

I don't understand why there isn't a strong indie scene for them here in the west like in Japan. The shit can't be that hard programming wise or budget wise compared to other genres.

I've considered making some text based adventure games as a hobby. I should look into that again...

 

[XANDER CAGE]

Because BioWare still insists on having combat in their games.

 

[Ceebs]

I don't understand why there isn't a strong indie scene for them here in the west like in Japan. The shit can't be that hard programming wise or budget wise compared to other genres.

The people that would make them make text adventures instead.

 

[Sqorgar]

You might as well ask why genre XXX isn't popular in the West. The answer is the same. Because there's only one genre that's popular in the West. Nothing is popular in the West.

Also, decent game writers are hard to come by and greatly under valued.

 

[AtomskEater]

Visual novels almost always have anime art styles, character archetypes, and tropes in them, which probably prevents a lot of people who aren't already interesting in that stuff from getting into them. Even those that are developed by groups in other countries tend to fall back on that kind of stuff.

Maybe it's also that you primarily read. Not enough action for most.

 

[fredrancour]

Indies tend to prefer to make puzzle or aracde-like games that focus heavily on gameplay, while major publishers have abandoned everything but pursuing the top-tier blockbuster, and on the rare occasion they do make a small budget game they go for arcade-like experiences on a download service.

 

[Atomski]

Because people in the West don't have a large enough attention span for them.

Think we would rather just read a good book.

 

[XANDER CAGE]

You might as well ask why genre XXX isn't popular in the West.

But I think that's exactly wha-

The answer is the same. Because there's only one genre that's popular in the West. Nothing is popular in the West.

I'm dying

 

[The Antitype]

Because people in the West don't have a large enough attention span for them.

Because they look horribly, horribly boring.

If I want a book, I'll read. There's nothing immersive or thrilling about these games. Indeed, they seem to remove the very basic pillars of what separate videogames from other media like books or movies.

 

[Data West]

Think we would rather just read a good book.

Yeah, I'm pretty sure it's the opposite. In Japan, manga is huge. So a visual novel, something that relies on pictures to help tell a story, is more likely to do well than in a country where we generally just read books on a Kindle or whatever. We're moving in the opposite direction.

 

[we.are.the.armada]

If you're talking about games like 999, yeah I don't know why there aren't many of those. I imagine they would sell pretty well considering the controls involved (possible iOS iterations), great pacing for versatile play styles, and deep thought provoking stories.

Hell, I hope that the PSVita gets some of these.

 

[Teknopathetic]

They did in the 80s with text-based adventure games. That's about as close as they got, after that they decided to make games with actual gameplay.

 

[The Antitype]

If you're talking about games like 999, yeah I don't know why there aren't many of those. I imagine they would sell pretty well considering the controls involved (possible iOS iterations), great pacing for versatile play styles, and deep thought provoking stories.

Hell, I hope that the PSVita gets some of these.

He's not talking about games like 999. He's talking about the stuff that never comes out west, like the romance novels turned into choose-your-own-adventure books.

 

[Woo-Fu]

A. There are better storytelling mediums
B. There are better things to do with video "games"

Basically the same reason shovels made out of cottage cheese never saw widespread adoption.

 

[XANDER CAGE]

Because they look horribly, horribly boring.

If I want a book, I'll read. There's nothing immersive or thrilling about these games. Indeed, they seem to remove the very basic pillars of what separate videogames from other media like books or movies.

whatever dog, you can't get the fuck down in a book

 

[Lucentto]

Both 999 and Ace Attorney are considered visual novels.

 

[Sky Chief]

I just don't think western devs would do these sorts of games well. A lot of their charm comes from their Japaneseness. Western visual novels would probably be boring as hell.

 

[bhlaab]

I think a better question is why would they be popular

 

[meltingparappa]

Between Phoenix Wright, 999 or even "Digital: A Love Story"/"Don't Take It Personally, Babe, It Just Ain't Your Story" the idea and acceptance of visual novels or visual novel-esque games in the west have made the first few steps since the days of stumbling around through Shadowgate on the NES. However, using Phoenix Wright as an example, that minor renaissance may be over since Ace Attorney Investigations 2 isn't being localized.

If you look at the XBox indies section as a cross-section of budget genres that younger developers are interested in pursuing, I don't recall there being any visual novels, or at least ones that have become critical darlings.

For the most part though, you can probably point to them not being very popular in the same way that Haruki Murakami novels aren't very popular, except his books are at least relatively cheap to publish and distribute because they don't come on expensive DS carts for an incredibly niche audience.

 

[Tribes of Trusty]

Because it's extremely niche.
Because for one interesting VN you have countless worthless ones.
Because there are a lot which are RAGE-inducing.
Because re-reading the same thing several times in order to have all the routes does not appeal to everyone.
Because the interaction is so minimal, most people would rather play them on a laptop instead of a big ass TV screen or a tiny handled.


However, if they ever import Umineko No Naku Koro Ni to Europe, it would be day 1 for me.

EDIT : There are also a lot of pornographic ones or with some pornographic content. Good luck with selling that.

 

[Ceebs]

Oh these need a mention as always:

Digital: A Love Story
http://www.scoutshonour.com/digital/

Don't Take It Personally, Babe, It Just Ain't Your Story
http://scoutshonour.com/donttakeitpersonallybabeitjustaintyourstory/

 

[Lostconfused]

whatever dog, you can't get the fuck down in a book

Umineko, the stock answer to any VN related thread.

Both 999 and Ace Attorney are considered visual novels.

Ace Attorney games are adventure games. 999 Is actually a VN.

 

[kliklik]

You'd think it would be possible to market them to casual gamers or non-gamers, if not the established gaming population that don't care for much beyond FPS. Has anyone tried? I know there was a highly rated Wii graphic novel game in Japan that got a perfect Famitsu score, but I don't know of anything that has been brought over or made here and marketed widely enough for people who don't go to gaming forums to hear about.

 

[djplaeskool]

Because BioWare still insists on having combat in their games.

 

[Data West]

whatever dog, you can't get the fuck down in a book

You're not reading the right books.

 

[hosannainexcelsis]

Interactive fiction is probably the closest equivalent to visual novels here in the West and there is still an active, if very niche and insular, development community for those. Otherwise, it's mostly a cultural thing - the Western gaming community is generally more interested in video games as quasi-film than as quasi-book.

 

[kokujin]

Yeah, I'm pretty sure it's the opposite. In Japan, manga is huge. So a visual novel, something that relies on pictures to help tell a story, is more likely to do well than in a country where we generally just read books on a Kindle or whatever. We're moving in the opposite direction.

I think the fact that these "games" are popular in Japan prove that they have shorter attention spans when it comes to certain media.They read things only when it is accompanied by pictures and music.

 

[Lijik]

Theres this one indie dev who makes a few visual novels that I always find super interesting, but I struggle to think of their name right now.
One of them was you're a pacifist working on a video game that the other team members want to make increasingly more violent.

 

[Momo]

I just don't think western devs would do these sorts of games well. A lot of their charm comes from their Japaneseness. Western visual novels would probably be boring as hell.

Seconded

 

[XANDER CAGE]

I think the fact that these "games" are popular in Japan prove that they have shorter attention spans when it comes to certain media.They read things only when it is accompanied by pictures and music.

Uh...

Image is certainly important in Japanese literature, but you cannot seriously think that people in Japan only read things with pictures. Murakami and Mishima would never have fucking sold books if that was the case, let alone all those light novel authors that sell truckloads daily.

 

[kokujin]

Uh...

Image is certainly important in Japanese literature, but you cannot seriously think that people in Japan only read things with pictures. Murakami and Mishima would never have fucking sold books if that was the case, let alone all those light novel authors that sell truckloads daily.

No I don't, I read Musashi in high school.The fact they not only have an audience, but a large one make a strong statement.

 

[FINALFANTASYDOG]

I think the fact that these "games" are popular in Japan prove that they have shorter attention spans when it comes to certain media.They read things only when it is accompanied by pictures and music.

HOORAY for making wild generalization about a country you seem to not be fully aware of!

Japan publishes the most out of any country in the world

 

[XANDER CAGE]

No I don't, I read Musashi in high school.The fact they not only have an audience, but a large one make a strong statement.

They're not mutually exclusive.

 

[Lostconfused]

Uh...

Image is certainly important in Japanese literature, but you cannot seriously think that people in Japan only read things with pictures. Murakami and Mishima would never have fucking sold books if that was the case, let alone all those light novel authors that sell truckloads daily.

Pretty sure those were joke posts. Also I am sure there is something to be said for western print publications that used to have collection of short stories or chapters of a book in magazines along with illustrations. You know stuff like Sherlock Holmes. The rise of comic books in america might have something to do with why all those things went away. Of course I am just pulling all of that out of my ass. Would be interesting to look into that side of print media in the west.

 

[cosmicblizzard]

They might get there eventually, but for now, I would say it's just a lack of exposure. More need to be localized for anyone to try to emulate the genre and actually sell it. Doesn't help that the biggest publisher in the west, JASTUsa almost exclusively brings over eroge.

It does seem to be gaining ground with stuff like Don't Take It Personally though.

 

[kokujin]

They're not mutually exclusive.

I never said they can't exist together,but a lot of people like their books with pictures in it, and they aren't children.

 

[XANDER CAGE]

I never said they can't exist together,but a lot of people like their books with pictures in it, and they aren't children.

And that proves that they have shorter attention spans how?

 

[Axiom]

I think the fact it's full of porn turns people off from it once they start looking for more Phoenix Wright or 999. The visual novel idea in the west are basically adventure games and the people who want that sort of narrative focused low pressure gaming go that way.

I think the most visual novel like stuff being made by indie devs were text adventures and if you want experimental & clever storytelling in your games then you're missing out if you never played something like Photopia by Adam Cadre.

 

[KenOD]

Aren't there visual novels for children's books like the Arthur's series?

Truth be told I never got into visual novels because I rather just read a physical book and could never quite do so through the tele or computer screen. Especially not on a small screen like the DS. I know I'm not alone in that aspect in the West, but during my time in Japan I knew many that loved reading cell phone novels and got used to it.

I could see visual novels gaining some traction in the West with e-books/tablets now that they have entered general usage and become popular. Are there any visual novels on the Android or iOS app stores?

 

[cosmicblizzard]

I never said they can't exist together,but a lot of people like their books with pictures in it, and they aren't children.

And a lot of people in the west don't like books at all, and they aren't children. How is this relevant?

 

[kokujin]

And that proves that they have shorter attention spans how?

You right it doesn't, I'd need more evidence, but it still doesn't sit well with me.

And a lot of people in the west don't like books at all, and they aren't children. How is this relevant?

I'd rather someone not have the urge to read, than have the urge to read books with a lot of pictures, but that's me.

 

[Lostconfused]

I'd rather someone not have the urge to read, than have the urge to read books with a lot of pictures, but that's me.

You're crazy. Next thing you will say that the radio and radio plays were the start of the downfall of literacy. And that japan is still stuck in the past because radio plays aren't an ancient relic there just yet.

 

[Frankfurt]

I wish we at least had XBLA ports of pick-your-own-adventure books. iOS has them, and they're glorious but I wish I could play them on a 42' TV at 1080p... So good.

Because BioWare still insists on having combat in their games.

I lolled.

 

[XANDER CAGE]

I'd rather someone not have the urge to read, than have the urge to read books with a lot of pictures, but that's me.

Why do you even care in the first place?