ipukespiders
Member
Is this abuse coming from friends/family or more from the general public?
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Why did GAF have such militant sub-communities develop?
- Thread starter MontyBrown
- Start date
Is this abuse coming from friends/family or more from the general public?
A Link to the Past
Banned
Often both
D
Deleted member 1235
Unconfirmed Member
your thoughts mirror mine somewhat. Basically what happens in any community that promotes the views of one group very strongly is eventually an echo chamber happens.
Neogaf at it's pre-exodus end, was an absolute safe space where making light of anything deemed controversial was ban fodder, on resetera it's already gone further than that.
Basically the LGBT crowd on resetera redefined the new normal and then created an extremely conservative position out of that. I'm pretty sure a decade ago the current group would be compared to 'rabbid feminists' (think bra burning for anyone that's old) and you have roughly what it is. Throw in a side of terminology bordering on the ridiculous (but what do I know I'm a cisgendered hetero white guy.... I think anyway)
It really sucks for anyone that doesn't give a fuck how you live your life and trys to treat individuals on their merits.
I guess it's somewhat understandable as an extremely tiny population has to fight pretty hard to be recognised, but at the same time, there has to be some kind of awareness there that whatever issues they are facing aren't going to ever even remotely on the majoritys radar. Everyone's got their own deal to think about.
OrionFalls
Member
Musky_Cheese
Banned
Need new friends. Remove family too.
Everyone has the right to live how they want. Fuck the haters.
A Link to the Past
Banned
Certainly nice when it's possible, though not as easy for a lot of people. I always look at it like this: when you experience bigotry for the color of your skin, you have other people to fall back on, you have a built-in support group. If you're gay or trans, then you are born into a situation where it's basically a coin flip.
Blam
Member
I couldn't agree more.
Musky_Cheese
Banned
That’s rough. I can’t understand. I don’t know how to respond other than to say I’m sorry.
Rocket Number 22
Member
First up, you want to fuck what you want to fuck, end of story. Personal sexual preference is just that, personal. Forcing or demanding anyone is obligated to sleep with you?....No, that's ludicrous.
Heres the thing, what i'm about to say would probably result in an instant ban on old gaf or the other new place BUT it's one of the MOST discussed things within the trans (h8 that word) community.
Gender reassignment surgery isn't pretty and isn't a COMPLETE answer. For the sake of this conversation being honest, I haven't undertaken it for one simple reason caused by three life experiences. The technology and surgical procedure just isn't there at this point in time.
I have lost TWO friends to suicide and one to drugs, all of whom undertook the surgery. That alone has been enough to slow down my rush to be a full optically appearing female (lets leave child bearing out of it for now, that is my greatest wish)
One friend friend left a note stating the feeling of being a woman wasn't there, the pain from dilation, the excess of having to clean and pain of it was the cause. The other didn't leave a note but it was mentioned verbally as to what was depressing her was clear. The 3rd has turned to drugs in her depression and it was clear why.
The option to be a "normal" female are just not there at this point in time, its terrible, it sucks and we WILL lose more lives until it arrives. It's not trans peoples fault its not her, its not non trans fault either, its no ones fault. We just are not their yet.
This is well known within the gay community, it's not cut and dry, there is no consensus, so I have trouble viewing someone acting how you stated as not being disingenuous
I have honestly never met someone who was trans who blamed someone for not wanting to sleep with them and
UNPOPULAR OPINION AHEAD
I don't know any MtF lesbians....this seems to apply more to the so called non binary "trans" types who are attempting to be lumped in with people who have actual gender dysphoria. (people in it to be cool, they wear the clothes and the makeup but they are not committed to being the other gender)
Huge generalization BUT we MtF tend to come exclusively from the ranks of the "bottoms" within the gay circles. I have never met an actual lesbian MtF, wholly my personal experience though.
dream
Member
It's an undertaking, but going back and reviewing bishoptl and besada's bans particularly are on the agenda. We also have 1000 accounts in the approval queue; we're just taking things slow and trying to shape things in a positive direction on a smaller scale first before we bring a lot more folks in. We'll also look into initiatives like giving members in good standing an invite for instant access for a friend etc., lots of other stuff. We have so many options now on the new platform and we will utilize them as best we can.
While we're at it, can we also have a gentleperson's agreement to never use the term "in good/bad faith" on here?
A Link to the Past
Banned
Firstly, that's a weird anecdote. I've had multiple people who never got SRS who committed suicide. I do not find any reasonable evidence that SRS causes people to be suicidal.
Secondly, I am an AMAB lesbian, and I know plenty of people who fit that definition.
Blam
Member
I really don't understand why people in the community continuously push for this surgery on vulnerable people, but never ever mention the problems with it. I've seen so many people lost, I've had close friends commit suicide, because of the absolute mess this puts you in.
Go on reddit, and look at the posts from the people who take the SRS. They are all miserable, they aren't told the problems with it beforehand, and it mentally ruins them because of how different they expected the experience to be compared to what it actually is.
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Rocket Number 22
Member
Well it's my personal experience, i'm not trying to push a science or anything like that. It's my real life, sure it could be coloured with influence (once I decided to transition I had 11 months of 4 times a week, hour long sessions with a therapist specializing in gay/trans mental health) but from my personal life experience thats the conclusion I have.
Again anecdotal, but spending regular time in Thailand, you have to wonder why there is so few *transitioned* MtF ladyboys? I'm not trying to shit on anyone's outlook or personal preference but we cannot continue to pretend a medical procedure in its infancy is perfect...that will cost us more lives than its worth.
*edit*
Phone posting and spelling....kill me lol
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Rocket Number 22
Member
Heres my problem, i read 4chan and reddit, i think most of us do. I havent really ever spoken out about it unless directly to the person considering it.
This is a HUGE problem in the trans community, you have people with doubts being shouted down by genuine well wishers etc and this silence is taken and run with by the doubters.
It's a complex issue that requires A LOT more than just a forum of people agreeing with you. It requires mental health experts to help you reach the conclusion on your own...but outside influence is looked down upon...
It all comes back to cliques sadly
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Blam
Member
Yes it does, and it's really shitty that something that everyone knows is taking lives, is still being openly given out to people as the holy grail or the endgame. It seriously fucking sucks to see people absolutely blinded and continuing to go forth with SRS even after being shown what it can do.
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Rocket Number 22
Member
OrionFalls
Member
It’s not always that easy.
Blam
Member
fixed.requote my fixed spelling and additions please
A Link to the Past
Banned
I'm not sure I know the source that SRS is dangerous mentally
Blam
Member
Look at reddit. Countless people there, talk about it. It's not the actual process but what comes with it. It's a mixed bag of what could and couldn't happen and most times it's worse then what people think is all you need to do.
They think hey I do this and I have a vagina, and that's it. No work needed past that. But it's not that easy, and it's much much worse the vast majority of the time. None of them are really prepared and probably the best they see is all the good stories which aren't many of SRS.
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Relativ9
Member
Ahh then I believe we might somewhat agree, I was under the impression you were for criminalizing or banning certain speech or certain speakers from specific topics. Yes ideally the marketplace of ideas should be just like nature; only the strong survive. The problem, I think, is that just like in nature, we've "overcome" this natural selection of ideas. Bad ideas are allowed to flourish because of echo chambers. On the right, the likes of Fox News and Info Wars spread misinformation, fear-mongering, and propaganda. On the left, echo chambers on social media, universities and the tech industry put feelings over facts and label anyone who pierces that vail as unfeeling and some sort of undesirable (racist, sexist, ect).
I'm not sure what to do about this perpetual polarization machine, but one thing I can't help but feel is that discouraging input from anyone or anywhere definitely isn't the answer. Let the leader of the KKK, the leader of Antifa (do they have one?) and some middle of the road center politician or activist battle it out in a debate. Let audience members grill them with questions, let them hang by their own rope or rise by the strength of their arguments (though I suspect the former). Will it hurt and offend people? Definitely. But that doesn't mean it's without value or place. If nothing else, you should know your enemy, and you can't do that if you make them too afraid of revealing themselves.
Moff
Member
I don't think they were militant, if anything maybe frustrated because they got tired of explaining the same things over and over again.
Personally, I am always open for discussion and I have debated conservatives for 20 years online and offline. But I am white male born into the most priviliged society on earth and most of the time not personally affected by topics about identity politics, so it's probably not as emotionally draining as it is for people of color or LGTB.
Personally, I am always open for discussion and I have debated conservatives for 20 years online and offline. But I am white male born into the most priviliged society on earth and most of the time not personally affected by topics about identity politics, so it's probably not as emotionally draining as it is for people of color or LGTB.
Airola
Member
This...
...and this...
...are very good and refreshing to read here.
First of all, it shows you CAN have faults in your writing and faults in your views and still be seen as something to work around with.
Secondly, it shows your newest and all the posts after that don't have to be reflected on every single post you made in the past. A person with some shades in the posting history can write good posts too.
A good post is a good post no matter what kind of a basement-Hitler wrote it, and even if the post would have some issues, the best way to deal with those issues is to acknowledge the issues and then talk about them. You rarely change the mind of the writer or even make them see the faults in their logic, but internet discussion boards are not only for the people who write on them, but also for all those people who only read the discussions without ever taking any part to them. The people who are walking on the fence about different issues are mostly among those people who will never write about it. And because of them all sorts of issues should be open for discussion and debate even if there is some bad faith involved in the posts.
...and this...
...are very good and refreshing to read here.
First of all, it shows you CAN have faults in your writing and faults in your views and still be seen as something to work around with.
Secondly, it shows your newest and all the posts after that don't have to be reflected on every single post you made in the past. A person with some shades in the posting history can write good posts too.
A good post is a good post no matter what kind of a basement-Hitler wrote it, and even if the post would have some issues, the best way to deal with those issues is to acknowledge the issues and then talk about them. You rarely change the mind of the writer or even make them see the faults in their logic, but internet discussion boards are not only for the people who write on them, but also for all those people who only read the discussions without ever taking any part to them. The people who are walking on the fence about different issues are mostly among those people who will never write about it. And because of them all sorts of issues should be open for discussion and debate even if there is some bad faith involved in the posts.
Airola
Member
Yes, this is a big problem. Avoiding discussions about it not only makes things worse for people who go through that not knowing about the problems and encounter the problems, but also makes the opposing side even more paranoid about the whole trans movement. Currently it seems as if there are not problems with it, especially when people talk about putting young kids on hormone therapy if they show signs of being trans. I mean, if you can do that to kids to prepare for the inevitable there shouldn't be any problems, right? I feel as if it's currently encouraged to take steps towards SRS instead of tackling the issue in some other way, as if surgery really is the inevitable thing to happen if a person wants to stay sane.
The worries of the paranoid anti-trans people aren't that unfounded when the problems of SRS are real. And the problem of the paranoid people becoming even more paranoid isn't going to get any better if discussions about the problems continue to be zero. They will eventually get their information from problematic sources and things might only get worse.
While the surgery is a great help to many, there are people who regret it. There are people who regret it because of the troubles maintaining the post-transition brings. There are people who regret it because they don't think they are the other gender anymore. There are people who regret it for other reasons. And some kill themselves because of it.
While trans people should be able to get help and while many get the help they need by going through SRS, I think we really can't ignore the problems and there needs to be something to be done to avoid these tragic situations where people end up regretting the operation. Shutting up about it is the last thing that is going to help.
Lupingosei
Banned
Just as a quick something. Wouldn't be more accurate to ask, why did gaf had such a militant community? Even if some was about trans issues most was far beyond that and the trans community was maybe the most visible part of it (I mean in a sense the issue which stood out the most), but feminism and other topics were discussed in a similar way and the outrage way pretty much the same all the time.
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TheGraykid
Member
None of the groups you mention is on a white supremacist or neo-nazi scale of things. That's what I'm talking about, groups that only exist to do horrible things, groups with a history of doing those things and who want to do them again. Muslims are not that, Germans are not that, Christians are not that.
The marketplace of ideas is pretty broken. I don't know if it's ever really worked though, I mean Galileo was imprisoned for suggesting the earth moved around the sun. Today there are still many people who believe the earth is flat. I think some of that is echo chambers, some of it is also basic tribal nature. Also, it becomes difficult for me to equate left and right when it comes to social issues and the propagation of bad ideas when the right both historically and in a modern context a lot of the time acts with the intention of upholding historic oppression. Whereas the left, even when they have bad ideas, don't necessarily have the same aims. It's like your example of someone from the KKK debating a member of Antifa/a black person. The KKK has historically murdered and worked openly to hurt black people. Therefore the disagreement between the two groups is less an intellectual argument, and more one group of people trying to justify hurting other people. We don't allow serial killers to debate their victims, why is this different.
I think a lot of frustration comes from the fact that we've had this debate before, KKK members have been heard, and we (the general public) have decided that black people are not lesser beings, so why are we still debating this? An individual not having heard white supremacist arguments is not a problem with common society, those arguments have existed for decades and are easy to look up. I feel like we have to also be wary of letting debate just be an excuse for people to hurl insults at others, people who argue that "we should hurt people" aren't people whose voice we should lift up. Also, part of evolving debate is us agreeing on common ground. We cannot do that if whenever the economy gets rough people want to re-legislate the place of minorities within society.
Relativ9
Member
Yeah, I was a bit quick in selecting my "bad guy extremes" there, I just chose whatever the worst I could think of from currently existing groups on the right and the left. I wasn't saying that specifically KKK vs Antifa would be a valuable debate, what I was hinting at was that the middle of the road guy in the center would come out the better since the other two would hang themselves in the court of popular opinion by spouting their ridiculous ideas or hate.
You'll also notice that I didn't say KKK vs A black person, because the point wasn't to put two adversaries against each other, it was to use two violent hate groups on extreme opposite ends of the political spectrum to illustrate how if we let them present themselves and their beliefs we'd be far better equipped to fight them. Because by presenting themselves they also exit their echo-chambers and open themselves up to debate. No one is talking about lifting anything up, I'm not saying their arguments have value and we should learn something from it, I'm saying they should be allowed to participate in society so that they won't hate society.
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Blam
Member
Yes it would be more accurate to say that since that's just plain true. You can see all complaints made by none GAF users and nearly all say hey this shits toxic the community will bash you and dogpile you for no reason.
Those were claims I had heard many many people say about neogaf whenever I had mentioned it.
I've updated the thread title to better reflect the conversation that has developed, rather than choose to focus on any one group.
This is also why I am checking out GAF again. The new place quickly turned into the same shitshow as old GAFs OT was.
Razorback
Member
Not much to add to the conversation. Just want to say that the level of discourse here leaves me very hopeful for the future of Gaf. I realize we will often see views that are misinformed and lack nuance (Ahem!OP), but it is very rare that those views come from a place of malice. Any psychologist will tell you that destructive criticism is highly ineffective at changing people's minds. Let's stick with what works, be nice to each other.
pickleslips
Member
Im just replying directly to the OP, I haven't read through the whole thread, but on that point, when your personal identity is dismissed and ridiculed on a daily basis, when you're told you're not a valid being, maybe you react a bit more radically as you find your self in a world that tells you who you are. Fuck that world, and let the trans community define themselves however the heck they want. One day this will all just be a memory of 'teething problems' of society getting used to widening their understanding of gender.
Mohonky
Member
Dunno how to pm 9n mobile, buit any chance a site admin or mod could check into my 'junior' status. I never agreed with my ban to begin with nor the thread that go locked and pulled me back to junior status to begin with.
If its fair, so be it but it would be nice if someone could look into it for me.
God Enel
Member
I would say the new place is even worse. Back in the days I came to gaf for gaming. Then I stuck with the ot (though im not posting a lot) and at the new place it's quite the opposite. It's really bad. I was getting warned just to express my opinion on a certain topic that not everyone agrees with, and to be honest I sometimes like to be the opposition to a certain extent .. but if you get banned for it what's The point. So the discussion is shut down before it has even started.
InterMusketeer
Member
They didn't have to.
When you enter a thread about a controversial topic, you know what kind of discussions and arguments to expect. If you're already tired from being treated like shit in real life, why would you go the extra mile to make sure you feel shitty on the internet, too? If you want to continue your activism online, you have to accept that, since you're talking to (potentially) thousands of people at a time, you're going to see many returning arguments over and over again. That's the nature of the internet. Personally I always felt that people were very quick to just say: "We discussed that already, and guess what? Turns out I'm right and you're wrong, who would've thunk it?" when in truth it wasn't so cut and dry.
So if you find a discussion tiring, just don't participate?
Ray Wonder
Founder of the Wounded Tagless Children
I posted there when it first opened up, but have since stopped because when I hit the text box I'm not sure what I can say that won't get a warning. Especially in regards to politics.
God Enel
Member
Well, as I'm not from the United States soI can't say a lot in that regard .. but more about other topics .. I'm not even trying to answer when I get quoted because shit will get "overanalayzed" and every word will turn against you to the point it's not worth arguing anymore. People there are hardcore left.
I think you have no idea how anti semtic Muslims in general are. Example Germany: Thanks to the high immigration of Muslims the word JEW used as slur has risen drastically in school with high immigration background. Many radical Muslism even want the death of all jewish folk because they got brainwashed by radical priests/parents etc.
Being a Jew in Germany has become more dangerous. Many do not even wear their "I think its called Kippa" on their heads anymore bnecause they fear to get assaulted. Islam is a very dangerous religion and ideology. And I am talking about the vast majority sadly the amount of moderates are very small. (Not in America. America has role Muslims for sure) but in Europe it a totaly different picture. So yes I would set the radical Islam on the same level as Nazis.
OrionFalls
Member
Because people were entering the LGBTQ OT and starting on them. Of course they’re going to defend themselves in a thread that was created specifically for them. Do you not defend yourself against an intruder in your home?
I've been a GAF member since 2007.
Last year, I wrote a post here about how NeoGAF had been a safe space for me in ~2005-2007 when I was bullied through grade school. I would read the forum every day after school. It had a real sense of community. It was a very positive community. And I wrote in that post that I had grown frustrated with the hostile groupthink and culture of intolerance that now characterized NeoGAF. It was preventing reasonable (and enjoyable) discussion from taking place.
And I was banned for that post.
What made GAF such an enjoyable forum between 2007 and until at least 2012 was its fun, collegial, open-minded, and relatively laid back atmosphere. It had a real sense of community. My favorite time of year growing up was always E3 and the threads it spawned on NeoGAF. It was so much fun. The threads moving so quickly you could barely follow everyone's reactions, the memes, in-jokes, and a smaller scale of discussion that just isn't possible on other sites. NeoGAF was intimate, inclusive, and a happy place for a lot of people. It felt like a kind of internet home. The reality is that for a place to feel like home it needs to be inclusive, tolerant, and it needs to cut people some slack and let them speak freely and risk saying something offensive.
This forum, its moderators, and EvilLore, did almost everything wrong. Their actions and inactions pushed reasonable users like myself away. Year over year, users like myself posted less often and users who were harsh, unreasonable, and frankly bullies were encouraged to stay and post. This encouraged groupthink; it facilitated the toxic SJW obsession with seeing racism and sexism in EVERYTHING -- which literally ruins culture and makes everything miserable (including gaming); this encouraged witch hunts and it had a horrible chilling effect on discussion.
By 2015, NeoGAF was NOTHING like what it had been. It was the opposite of the forum that I went to to escape being bullied in school. It was a forum where people were actively hunted down and bullied for expressing their often very reasonable viewpoints. What a disaster.
Currently, I post on /r/KotakuInAction, which is an open, inclusive, and tolerant forum for discussing all manner of issues related to gaming. Other subreddits are decent, but they have hivemind tendencies (/r/NintendoSwitch is particularly bad) due to what I imagine is the rigging of the voting mechanism or perhaps just emergent aspects of the voting mechanism that promote conformism. This means that the calibre of discussion in those subreddits isn't always the best and criticism is downvoted into oblivion.
While I am glad to have the opportunity to make this post, the circumstances leading up to EvilLore's change of heart and to the changes here at NeoGAF don't inspire much hope. While it is a terrible injustice that EvilLore has been subjected to defamatory allegations that have not been substantiated, the fact that those allegations (and the flight of users who I have no doubt were driving massive amounts of advertising revenues) were necessary to bring NeoGAF to this point is upsetting. Not only should it have never gotten this bad, intervention should have occurred for entirely different reasons. That they are motivated almost exclusively by EvilLore's self-interest, and given that he has no credibility to claim otherwise, I remain deeply skeptical that NeoGAF will ever be anything like what it used to be so many years ago.
With that said, I believe that NeoGAF may be capable of becoming that kind of a home once again. Its smaller scale community is more unique in 2018* than it was in 2007. Sites like Reddit are increasingly struggling to offer a sense of community due to their size, scale, and algorithmic nature. So if NeoGAF can offer what they can't, I might come back. Because that was something special. But I'm not holding my breath.
Last year, I wrote a post here about how NeoGAF had been a safe space for me in ~2005-2007 when I was bullied through grade school. I would read the forum every day after school. It had a real sense of community. It was a very positive community. And I wrote in that post that I had grown frustrated with the hostile groupthink and culture of intolerance that now characterized NeoGAF. It was preventing reasonable (and enjoyable) discussion from taking place.
And I was banned for that post.
What made GAF such an enjoyable forum between 2007 and until at least 2012 was its fun, collegial, open-minded, and relatively laid back atmosphere. It had a real sense of community. My favorite time of year growing up was always E3 and the threads it spawned on NeoGAF. It was so much fun. The threads moving so quickly you could barely follow everyone's reactions, the memes, in-jokes, and a smaller scale of discussion that just isn't possible on other sites. NeoGAF was intimate, inclusive, and a happy place for a lot of people. It felt like a kind of internet home. The reality is that for a place to feel like home it needs to be inclusive, tolerant, and it needs to cut people some slack and let them speak freely and risk saying something offensive.
This forum, its moderators, and EvilLore, did almost everything wrong. Their actions and inactions pushed reasonable users like myself away. Year over year, users like myself posted less often and users who were harsh, unreasonable, and frankly bullies were encouraged to stay and post. This encouraged groupthink; it facilitated the toxic SJW obsession with seeing racism and sexism in EVERYTHING -- which literally ruins culture and makes everything miserable (including gaming); this encouraged witch hunts and it had a horrible chilling effect on discussion.
By 2015, NeoGAF was NOTHING like what it had been. It was the opposite of the forum that I went to to escape being bullied in school. It was a forum where people were actively hunted down and bullied for expressing their often very reasonable viewpoints. What a disaster.
Currently, I post on /r/KotakuInAction, which is an open, inclusive, and tolerant forum for discussing all manner of issues related to gaming. Other subreddits are decent, but they have hivemind tendencies (/r/NintendoSwitch is particularly bad) due to what I imagine is the rigging of the voting mechanism or perhaps just emergent aspects of the voting mechanism that promote conformism. This means that the calibre of discussion in those subreddits isn't always the best and criticism is downvoted into oblivion.
While I am glad to have the opportunity to make this post, the circumstances leading up to EvilLore's change of heart and to the changes here at NeoGAF don't inspire much hope. While it is a terrible injustice that EvilLore has been subjected to defamatory allegations that have not been substantiated, the fact that those allegations (and the flight of users who I have no doubt were driving massive amounts of advertising revenues) were necessary to bring NeoGAF to this point is upsetting. Not only should it have never gotten this bad, intervention should have occurred for entirely different reasons. That they are motivated almost exclusively by EvilLore's self-interest, and given that he has no credibility to claim otherwise, I remain deeply skeptical that NeoGAF will ever be anything like what it used to be so many years ago.
With that said, I believe that NeoGAF may be capable of becoming that kind of a home once again. Its smaller scale community is more unique in 2018* than it was in 2007. Sites like Reddit are increasingly struggling to offer a sense of community due to their size, scale, and algorithmic nature. So if NeoGAF can offer what they can't, I might come back. Because that was something special. But I'm not holding my breath.
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I do find it funny when people complain about group think and how biased old GAF was but drop "feminazis" or "SJW" without a second thought or hint of irony.
So just let the hot takes and ignorance run rampant with no one to say anything against? Nah a lot of those people went in there because they cared and knew full well what kind of things they'd hear and wanted to push back against that stuff.
So just let the hot takes and ignorance run rampant with no one to say anything against? Nah a lot of those people went in there because they cared and knew full well what kind of things they'd hear and wanted to push back against that stuff.
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Vicetrailia
Member
Is it possible that here, you were in a bubble that got interrupted by diversity? Saying that people saw racism and sexism in everything leads me to believe that you were being exposed to how more people view the same things, and you didn't like it that much. Then the numbers grew leading into a complete takeover, finally pushing you out.
This is how people today discuss political stuff. However Modern Feminism has become very authorian so I can clearly see the connection here. Also does not help when bigger names or leaders of Feminism tweet stuff like "If you are pregnant with ahite boy you better should consider to abort it. Or We need Hunger Games for men or even better killing them all.
I mean, if you think the site sucks, don't come. If you like the site, participate. If you're not sure yet, wait and see. It's a big internet. I didn't visit those spots personally, but to my knowledge KiA had a pretty huge hate hard-on for GAF and it sounded obsessive and unhealthy, so I'm dubious of your description of it and dropping a giant post like this when you say you don't care for this place kind of fits with my understanding of it in relation to GAF. It's a video game message board. Is all the internet drama really necessary? I know GAF itself was a haven for drama, but it's all exhausting and dumb and most of it picked up and went elsewhere anyhow. Let's just move on.
This is how people today discuss political stuff. However Modern Feminism has become very authorian so I can clearly see the connection here. Also does not help when bigger names or leaders of Feminism tweet stuff like "If you are pregnant with ahite boy you better should consider to abort it. Or We need Hunger Games for men or even better killing them all.
Did I compare anyone to Hitler or make any claims about feminism or anything remotely like that? I find it quite telling that your first thought was to respond in this entirely hyperbolic manner and playing the victim card at the same time.
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Femnazi = Hitler
Trump Supporters = Hitler
Again this happens on both sides. And it was an explanation why this happens. I was never talking about you.
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Yes but you jumped straight to it when my post was making a point about those who claim to not like group think go to the group think of the alt right.
Not that I disagree with you and I can't say I have any real understanding of the issues the trans community faces. However, the wide breadth of pronouns and rules around how to address people, in which is a huge spectrum and not consistent is extremely confusing to people who are not a part of that community. No doubt people are more increasingly aware but there certainly was a militant group think at times from a section of that community and definitely over at the other forum. I get that people are fighting for their right to be accepted and many do discuss the topic with malice, however often it's just someone who is just poorly educated on the subject that gets blasted, in those situations it often is detrimental to a cause.
Trans issues unfortunately are not easily understood by the majority and it's certainly infinitely more complex than race or homosexuality. While everyone absolutely should have the right to define who their personal identity is, that wide spectrum all but ensures that it will take society as a whole a very long time to understand it. Abusing the uneducated really doesn't help discourse and can in fact give rise to more bigotry or things like the alt-right and anti-PCers.
I tried to explain why this here happens:
Both sides are using the same smear tactics nothing else. And I am not such a person I do not think in a group but social media does. And the us vs: them the black or white talk does not make it possible to have actual discussions for most of the time. Even though I think it is changing at least here.
It is just one extreme vs another extreme
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