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Why do gamers think it’s bad Gamepass is bad when major developers and some indie developers use Gamepass?

Do you have an issue with Xbox Gamepass (and other services)

  • Yes they should all die and go to hell

    Votes: 71 26.5%
  • No they should continue to coexist

    Votes: 197 73.5%

  • Total voters
    268

Slings and Arrows

Formerly 'Boswollocks'
Apr 19, 2019
9,349
15,401
780
Away with the fairies
Bingo. A lot of games these days are not worth their day 1 MSRP. I can't stop counting how many "AAA" games turn out to be mediocre trash with continual micro transactions and "season passes".

The idea of me spending $59 these days for a video game is a hard sell due to Gamepass unless I really want it.
Microsoft will get the blame as the industry continues going down the shitter, but gamepass isn't the cause, it's the effect.

games are made with 0 replay ability in mind, and the campaigns on most games are an extended tutorial designed to push you online or to buy pointless shit to make the game seem more attractive.

I can't remember the last game I played through more than once.

BUT! Gamepass is the modern day equivalent of finding dreamcast games at 3 for £10. So i salute microsoft for that
 

bxrz

Member
Oct 30, 2020
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The biggest issue is that you don't own any games. If Microsoft decide that your favourite game is no longer profitable to keep on the service, it'll disappear and will never be seen again. If its handled badly enough, even if you have the game disabled the digital authentication may be shut down, rendering the software inoperable.

Everything moving to a service-based model is not inherently a good thing.
Then buy the game. Games stay on GP for months before they are removed
 

Hitchyhero

Member
Oct 23, 2020
205
524
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The biggest issue is that you don't own any games. If Microsoft decide that your favourite game is no longer profitable to keep on the service, it'll disappear and will never be seen again. If its handled badly enough, even if you have the game disabled the digital authentication may be shut down, rendering the software inoperable.

Everything moving to a service-based model is not inherently a good thing.

But everything isn't moving to a service model. You are still able to buy the games if you want. So why the concern?
 

Moogle11

Member
Feb 7, 2020
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From my experience most of the hate comes from two camps.

1. Fanboys of other platforms.

2. People who love owning their media (be it physical, digital or a combo of both) and worry about a streaming/cloud service only future.

Personally, I'm one who realized physical media was just clutter as I didn't like displaying it and rarely re-visit movies, shows or games and that owning digital games is just wasted money unless dirt cheap given I rarely revisit things. So I'm all for gamepass, digital rental services, streaming (less so for games due to latency and input lag) etc. since I consume media in a very disposable, one and done fashion. I thus don't give a crap about owning media and just want to access things cheaply and conveniently.
 
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DaGwaphics

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Dec 29, 2019
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No, major game studio’s are happy to use gambling mechanics, in loot boxes and the like, to trick children into giving them thousands of dollars, without a single bit of guilt about the consequences to that child later in life or their families finances.

So why, pray tell, would they be happy to let people access their games via Gamepass, at effectively a 90% discount, if they didn’t calculate they’d end up with at least the same amount of money , if not more, than they would just selling the games normally?

Again, the people who are singing the services praises, really don’t seem to be looking at the bigger picture, and seem to lack the basic understanding that these major corporations have anything but their best interests at heart.

No one has told you that the microX revenue model you describe exists without GP? In fact, even Sony makes most of their revenue this way (more than from the sale of all of their first-party single player games).

Thus, while complaints about these revenue models are valid, the idea that they are somehow tied to GP is just wrong. Honestly, F2P games are a bigger risk to the traditional AAA market than GP.
 
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LordBlodgett

Member
Dec 8, 2020
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I don't have a problem with services like gamepass but I do think it promotes certain types of games which I do not personally like.

1) GAAS, cheap/free games on a paid subscription.
2) Short burst 'mobile games' with good graphics for streaming.
I don't think you have used Gamepass recently. I hear the GAAS argument from people all the time, but out of the 350 plus titles available on Gamepass console I would estimate there are less than 40 GAAS type games, and half of those are the sports titles that were added when EA Play came onboard. The reason I have enjoyed Gamepass so much is the pure variety of games to play.

In terms of "mobile" games for streaming I also disagree. I sold my One X in September and couldn't get ahold of a series X until late November. During that time I used cloud streaming to play Dead by daylight, A Plague Take, Forza Horizon 4, New Super Lucky's Tale, The Tourist, Streets Of Rage 4, Gears 5, and the First Ori. I guess that's a bunch of mobile GAAS games......
 

x@3f*oo_e!

Member
Dec 13, 2020
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I don’t think there’s anyone with an Xbox saying it’s bad.

Only PS fans think this. Xbox players use or don't use Gamepass, but there isn't a single one I know that thinks it is a bad thing.

maybe. It's not unlikely I get an xbox when next gen truly starts (so late 2021/2022) - and gamepass is a huge meh for me .. there's not a single game I've seen on there I would play that I didn't buy at launch (inlcuding xbox exclusives so far ..) so it just don't make sense for me

But that's no reason to not like it. I don't like it because I see xbox turning into a "straight to video" games maker, when Sony is the Cecil B. DeMilles of videogaming (or whatever analogy you want). They (xbox) see it more like Netflix..

I like a lot of the aspects of xbox, but gamepass is practically their number one thing for the brand - I don't know if they'll have anything at all to offer me in 5 years or so ..

Maybe this interview (Tim Stuart xbox CFO) was not intended for public consumption - but it exists :

I just took bits of the interview that were about gamepass = but the message is clear - gamepass make more money.
 
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Fitzchiv

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Apr 24, 2018
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Because a decent chunk of gamers own a Sony console and thus Microsoft could donate all Gamepass funds to planting trees, kissing puppies and buying jumpers for the homeless and folk would still claim it was the gaming equivalent of a collapsed lung.
 

cireza

Member
Jun 1, 2014
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there's not a single game I've seen on there I would play that I didn't buy at launch (inlcuding xbox exclusives so far ..) so it just don't make sense for me
You do realize that you would not have to buy these games 60$ at launch as they are in Game Pass at launch ? So it does make sense for you, it seems.
 

x@3f*oo_e!

Member
Dec 13, 2020
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Another argument and its obvious counter.

"I like to own things instead of rent them" ---> Then buy it, no one takes that option away from you.
I talked about this above - the problem is that instead of making things I want to own, they make stuf that is good enough for a rental. If you're someone who prefers 1 A over 3 Bs then their directions isn't for you - so bad.
You do realize that you would not have to buy these games 60$ at launch as they are in Game Pass at launch ? So it does make sense for you, it seems.
They're not on gamepass - I said that. You know - Square Enix, Capcom, EA, Ubisoft, Warner ..

Maybe in the future when some Zenimax game, but so far - nothing
 
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Aug 6, 2010
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Gamepass isn’t for me. I play game slowly and sometimes they remove game, from it. I would be pissed off if a game I’m playing is removed.
Gamepass is pretty much the anti-playing at the sound of your own drum service.
Like hell I'd let any subscription service dictate what games should I play during certain period of times.
 
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AJUMP23

Member
Sep 29, 2020
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I love Game Pass. and I have no issue with the subscription fees for the service. I think people that have the service enjoy it. I think the negativity you hear is from people that are jealous they don't have what the other person has on their system, or they just like to hate on other people.

I keep hearing game quality going down over time like Netflix, but Netflix has some great stuff and some bad stuff and some mediocre stuff. Just like all forms of entertainment. Some is great, some isn't.
 

x@3f*oo_e!

Member
Dec 13, 2020
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I think I also read "including Xbox exclusives", but for third parties, Game Pass does not help indeed.
Yeah you did read that - I meant I haven't been interested in an xbox exclusive since Fable 2 -~!

[edit, forgot Quantum Break, and Scalebound . ouch]
 
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BattleScar

Member
Jul 29, 2016
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But everything isn't moving to a service model. You are still able to buy the games if you want. So why the concern?
It is however, the end goal.
No more physical manufacturing costs, no more distribution costs, no more used games market. Its where they want to end up, because it means they keep making money continuously whether you play 1 game, or 10 games or 100 games per year.
I hope and pray that the physical model of game distribution doesn't go away in the future.

The industry has been nickel and diming us for the past decade in increasingly egregious ways. Loot boxes, cut content that's resold later as DLC. Broken games being shipped and fixed later after the money is already in their pockets. In game purchases and microtransactions existing in any and every game from F2P to $60 AAA experiences.

Perhaps I've got a cynical take here, but these companies aren't your friends.
 
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Umbral

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May 7, 2020
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I like to own the things I pay for.

As for the console war claims, PSNow has a similar model. I tried it. I don’t like not owning my games.
 

iJudged

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Sep 14, 2013
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People only have an issue with xbox gamepass because its not called playstation gamepass.
denzel washington GIF
denzel washington GIF
 

Three

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Oct 26, 2014
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So you've never seen the games on gamepass?

Edit: what you said doesn't even make sense. Surely it's better to develop open world games that are as long as hell so you stay subscribed for longer..... Rather then short mobile games where you complete them quickly
I've seen the games on gamepass but why wouldn't it make sense? For example MS have xbox live and for a very long time that made them concentrate on making/funding multiplayer games and reluctant to fund single player games. Doesn't mean there were no single player games. Gamepass would have the same effect with GaaS.

Mobile games are not 'short' when they are GaaS. Look at anything like Clash royale, Clash of clans, etc people play those for as long as a decade. The 'short' part is about the length of the single session of playtime.
Look at these slides from GDC and xCloud
It specifically mentions "anticipate shorter gameplay sessions" and design your game with the anticipated latency i.e. slow reaction games.

 
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DarkMage619

Member
Jun 19, 2004
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I bet you also applauded microsoft for xbox live gold back in the day and chanted the "you get what you pay for" mantra.
No. But are you arguing that Sony offered a superior online service for free?

I've also noticed the biggest apologists of Gamepass are Xbox fans. They talk about quality games and value but it's clear they have no idea what they are talking about. Rental services are not for me.
Ah good since you are so knowable about Gamepass you can explain how it is a 'rental' service when you can buy every title available on that service for a discount no less.

"You will own nothing, and you will be happy."

I like to own the stuff i buy and i don't want to buy a license that allows me to rent a game for a limited time. Also gamepass keeps adding new stuff but also removes old stuff, so if you pay for the service, you would be forced to buy the game you liked anyway in the end because gamepass decided to remove the game you liked. The "netflix" trend of the game industry worries me.
You guys really don't know what you are talking about do you.
 
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MacReady13

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Jun 22, 2018
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I'm just not into subscription based services in general. When someone is curating what I can/can't play/watch, I'm not happy.
I understand you can buy the games you want on Xbox but eventually when everything is subscription based like Netflix is, when do we actually own anything? All of a sudden we are paying for gamepass, Ubisoft, EA and whatever other company wants to lock their shit behind a subscription service. How people are happy with that as a future is beyond my comprehension. Just give these fucking games companies more control, yeah??? When does it end? Streaming is the next fucking crap as well. More control over what we "own"... We rent everything.

I was far happier in the "old" days to go to my local video shop, rent some games and if I liked them, I would purchase them. I owned them forever. Now with this model, they own us in gaming. Fuck that. This becomes the norm and I'm out of gaming for good. My backlog is big enough it could last a life time.
 
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THEAP99

reposts tweets from kids about console wars
Mar 16, 2020
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For indie experimental games sure it's fine..

But the big blockbuster type of games I love, just doesn't fit the model. Gamepass and netflix-esque subscription services will simply change the way games are made. Because subscriptions are all about engagement and keep people coming back. So how on earth would a 20+ hour AAA single player only experience fit into that? The only way I see that working is if they roll it out in like episodes or seasons. Half of the game now, rest of the game later.

I will have faith in subscription services if xbox game studios are able to release at least 3 AAA single player only blockbuster games that win goty or get close to it day and date.
 
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dcmk7

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Mar 25, 2020
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Gamepass and services like it will be the norm in the next 5 years. Microsoft is pumping it's entire first party output into Gamepass day 1 and it will only improve over the next few years. I expect PlayStation to eventually follow suit in a few years once they realize that's the direction the industry is heading and Nintendo will do something similar in due time.

It will be to video games what Spotify did to music. Who purchases music albums or singles out right anymore? Not many people.

Just looked up how much money an artist gets for 1 million streams and apparently it works out as roughly $4370. How are game studios supposed to recoup development costs in a model like that exactly?

Long term it will encourage quantity over quality. But for the here and now whilst Microsoft are putting serious money into GamePass it's consumer friendly.
 

Torrent of Pork

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Aug 29, 2018
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Aren't most 'physical games' effectively just a key on the disc to download the rest of the game over the internet anyway? If a company delists a game, and removes the patches from the store, all that disc is going to do is load up whatever day 0 build that often enough isn't even capable of booting.

Plus there's the fact that the new consoles can't even play the game off the disc anyway. If you're worried about companies taking games away from you that you've purchased, that disc will not help you nowadays.
 

Nikana

Go Go Neo Rangers!
Jan 26, 2016
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Aren't most 'physical games' effectively just a key on the disc to download the rest of the game over the internet anyway? If a company delists a game, and removes the patches from the store, all that disc is going to do is load up whatever day 0 build that often enough isn't even capable of booting.

Plus there's the fact that the new consoles can't even play the game off the disc anyway. If you're worried about companies taking games away from you that you've purchased, that disc will not help you nowadays.

PLus theres the notion that the hardware and physical media will last forever. It wont. Owning your own media has been rapidly becoming a thing of the past and a majority of consumers prefer it that way.
 

FranXico

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Ah good since you are so knowable about Gamepass you can explain how it is a 'rental' service when you can buy every title available on that service for a discount no less.
The word you are looking for is "knowledgeable".
The option to purchase something you are currently renting is nothing new, and doesn't make the rental anything other than a rental.
You are renting your access to the library, and have the option to buy individual games at a discount.

Did you understand?
 

Lone Denjin

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Dec 15, 2020
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They are fine, my only gripe is some months you get a really cheap "indie" game, that are sometimes not really worth the monthly fee. But i understand they can't give away AAA games every month.
 
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MadPanda

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Dec 8, 2020
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Which major devs using gamepass ( outside 1st party ones) and releasing games on service day 1?

Curious to know.

EA, Warner, Capcom, Square Enix, Bandai Namco, Ubisoft, Bethesda (prior to acquisition), Sega etc.

They don't put games day one but they participate in it.
 

MacReady13

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Jun 22, 2018
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Owning your own media has been rapidly becoming a thing of the past and a majority of consumers prefer it that way.
Why is owning your own media such a bad thing? You are just allowing these games/media companies to dictate what THEY want, and by following whatever they do, things will remain like that forever. I loved getting my new Friday The 13th box set from Shout Factory (I believe it was released by them). It came in a beautiful package with plenty of special features. It's something that streaming or renting can't give you, and it baffles me why people are happy with that.
 

BigBooper

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Feb 28, 2018
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Some people can't get their heads around the concept of renting games, even though we've been doing it for decades, and those people haven't realised that they don't technically own their digital games either.

Some people think it's "bad value" because they're the kinds of people who will revisit a game over and over again, but that's not what many others do.
If I was a kid and had the option of renting 100+ games a year and play them whenever and for as long as I want for $120 I'd have been so happy. Back then a nightly rental of one game cost at least $2.5 and you'd have to hope it was in stock.
 

lachesis

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I don't look for the latest "movies" on Netflix - if I want to watch latest movie, I would visit the theater. But on Netflix, I expect good ones from past few years as well as some classics. Of course, I watch some of their "exclusive" originals. No - they don't have every movies from the past, but there are some that interests me. Certainly there are whole bunch of documentaries and comedy specials that I would normally don't think of even looking for it.

So for me, it really feels Game Pass feel the same kind of approach. Some recent years games, some exclusive first party games, and indie games, for less than 5 bucks per month. (Doing that 3 year Ultimate). I think it's not that bad of a deal for that price at all... but for at full price of $15... hmmm. I will decide at the end of my subscription in November 2023 whether it's worth keeping it at that point of time. So far, I spent way too much time on Game Pass since joining it nearly 400 hours since launch of XSX - so it feels like it's worth the money - but my opinion could change over time.
 

Three

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I don't think you have used Gamepass recently. I hear the GAAS argument from people all the time, but out of the 350 plus titles available on Gamepass console I would estimate there are less than 40 GAAS type games, and half of those are the sports titles that were added when EA Play came onboard. The reason I have enjoyed Gamepass so much is the pure variety of games to play.

In terms of "mobile" games for streaming I also disagree. I sold my One X in September and couldn't get ahold of a series X until late November. During that time I used cloud streaming to play Dead by daylight, A Plague Take, Forza Horizon 4, New Super Lucky's Tale, The Tourist, Streets Of Rage 4, Gears 5, and the First Ori. I guess that's a bunch of mobile GAAS games......
I've used gamepass before and know what's available on it. We are in the early stages and an old library of games exists becuase they need content. The landscape is already changing even without gamepass though. 3 generations and only one GTA, GTA5 online. No titanfall 3? Apex legends. Gamepass is just a good fit for this. Release a small budget GaaS game, get several continuing revenue models which is the backbone of Gaas, pay for xbox live, pay for gamepass, pay for in game content. That's what GaaS is and big budget single player games that have people engaged/subscribed for only a week/month do not fit into that very well.
 
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If it wasn't for gamepass i wouldn't be gaming. I don't believe games are worth their cost anymore.

With that said, i can't deny that gamepass has made me see games as more throwaway than ever before.

Why do you think games aren't worth their cost ? I think, if anything, games are worth their cost and then some more than any other time in history. To think some arcadey games of the 80s and 90s, and many feature-lacking software were priced up to $70 or more. And you think they're overpriced now? Prices drop too, as ever, and there's the used games market, etc. It's not like the only option is to pay for day 1 full-price games. If you're willing to wait for some games chosen randomly by a company to make it to some service and pay for that as a rental, then I'd say waiting for some price drops or waiting to buy used could accomodate your gaming neccesities and budget. Maybe Game Pass does just that, but I find it hard to believe it's because "games aren't worth it" for any reasonable argument, I think you are either tight on money or gaming is not longer a main hobby to you.