Why Do Some People Feel Macron is a Better Leader Than Trump?

danielberg

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You are, of course, entitled to feel that way about my experiences with leadership (as a leader, and as a subordinate).

I don't deny that all humans are flawed, but IME every other leader I've ever worked with that I admired accepted accountability.
Its all bullshit considering what you had before, a dumb bush that set half the middle east on fire, then hillary as one of the worst secretary of state in US history setting parts of the middle east on fire AGAIN and paved the way for the refugee crisis to fuck over all of europe, then obama didn't do shit when terrorists mass slaughtered Christians and Muslims large scale while handing over billions to iran.
What has trump done that even compares to 1% of that? Thrown around words you dont like?
Trump by comparison with the last two presidents is basically a gift.
 
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Mar 18, 2018
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Trump is nothing more than a phase of America coming terms with how it got it's riches and the path it needs to take going forward to continue to be prosperous.

The truth is the U.S.A. is/was a racist place exploiting nearly every minority that reached her shores. Going forward there is enough wealth in this country to make up for what was taken from the Native Americans, Chinese, Japanese, African Americans and still have the U.S. be a great place to live.

The racist point of view is white prosperity only because there is not enough to go around. That is just not true. Bill Gates has enough money to make everybody in this country a millionaire and not change his lifestyle one bit.
You know, that is your opinion. And you are more than welcome to it. But you are seemingly selling this as truth and it just isn’t.

Also, I like how you talk about minorities and forget the Irish and Scottish. I like how you project your values how the rich should behave.

Such a reductive post yours is.
 

nephilimdj

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You know, that is your opinion. And you are more than welcome to it. But you are seemingly selling this as truth and it just isn’t.

Also, I like how you talk about minorities and forget the Irish and Scottish. I like how you project your values how the rich should behave.

Such a reductive post yours is.
Its 2018

We have African child soldiers thanks to Obama removing the Child Soldiers Prevention Act to counter China investing in Africa
We have Slaves in Libya thanks to France

Both made positive impacts on the world in last few years. I think the love of Macron is just media lead isn't it? Protests get 2mins of TV time, yet him shaking Trumps in a "manly" way was a huge story
 
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oagboghi2

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Its 2018

We have African child soldiers thanks to Obama removing the Child Soldiers Prevention Act to counter China investing in Africa
We have Slaves in Libya thanks to France

Both made positive impacts on the world in last few years. I think the love of Macron is just media lead isn't it? Protests get 2mins of TV time, yet him shaking Trumps in a "manly" way was a huge story
Macron has a 18% approval rating in France.

People only pay attention to the news they want to hear. In some people's imagination Macron is successful and let me by all....only in their imagination
No, he is not, no matter how many times you say he is.
And sone people live in denial. Like a petulant child
 
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In the very example of fuel tax, polls suggest that majority did support his decision to raise them.
I was talking about his overall worldview and attacks on labor. But I'll concede your point the polls suggested the fuel tax was okay.

Nevertheless, apparently, the polls weren't truly representative or didn't communicate to Macron supporters that raising taxes would induce political backlash he couldn't ignore.
 
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Deleted member 1235

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Is it really hard to understand? Hes a well spoken politician who thinks about what he says.

Trump is literally embarassing to hear talk about anything.

Im not even talking about their politics AT ALL.

Also Trump is really terrible at being a criminal as well, which ups the laughability somewhat.
 

danielberg

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Is it really hard to understand? Hes a well spoken politician who thinks about what he says.

Trump is literally embarassing to hear talk about anything.

Im not even talking about their politics AT ALL.

Also Trump is really terrible at being a criminal as well, which ups the laughability somewhat.
Your issue is that you give more shit about what politicians say and how they speak vs what they actually do and manage to do.
"i am not even talking about politics" is wrong it should be "i only talk about the politics" because that is actually what matters and not what random tweet gets you outraged form one day to the next.
Dont listen soo much what politicians say instead look at what they are actually doing.
 
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Deleted member 1235

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Your issue is that you give more shit about what politicians say and how they speak vs what they actually do and manage to do.
"i am not even talking about politics" is wrong it should be "i only talk about the politics" because that is actually what matters and not what random tweet gets you outraged form one day to the next.
Dont listen soo much what politicians say instead look at what they are actually doing.
No, having some talent at public speaking and being a decent human being are 2 of the many ways you get respect.

From a foreign perspective, Trump and by extension America look like illiterate jokes and I’m staggered people can’t immediately see him for the joke sociopath that he is.

It’s also wildly obvious not everything is above board with his business dealings and the country is clearly on the upswing in economy which was started under Obama. America is succeeding in spite of, not because of trump.
 

TheSadRanger

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You mean the Rothschild investment banker and globalist who routinely states there is no french culture just diversity? That right winger? lol
Reminds me of a clip of a vid I saw where someone was filming outside (I think it might have been Southern) of a Bilderburg meeting and there were two sets of protestors outside. The woman was like "one set of protestors is calling them globalists" and the other set is calling them neo-nazi's .." ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
 
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Is it really hard to understand? Hes a well spoken politician who thinks about what he says.
It is.

Look at his ideas. Look at his job approval. Look at his background.

He's good at saying dumb things, following through in spite of resistance, and making a big mess. What makes him a better leader of his country?
 

danielberg

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Reminds me of a clip of a vid I saw where someone was filming outside (I think it might have been Southern) of a Bilderburg meeting and there were two sets of protestors outside. The woman was like "one set of protestors is calling them globalists" and the other set is calling them neo-nazi's .." ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
and you have a issue with making up your own mind about him when he is a declared globalist and declares french culture as a none thing hahahah oh boy
 
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Alx

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I was talking about his overall worldview and attacks on labor. But I'll concede your point the polls suggested the fuel tax was okay.
What attacks on labor ? Macron's whole policy is to ease the life of working people by lowering their taxes (at the expense of non working people).

Nevertheless, apparently, the polls weren't truly representative or didn't communicate to Macron supporters that raising taxes would induce political backlash he couldn't ignore.
That's because he's convinced that you don't rule a country through polls, but through political programs. That's one of the major disagreements he had with François Hollande (former president, whom he worked with), who changed all his policies when the wind turned.
 
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What attacks on labor ? Macron's whole policy is to ease the life of working people by lowering their taxes (at the expense of non working people).
One example is that firms cut 1000s of jobs following record sales and high profits last year in part because Macron and his supporters lowered legal restrictions on layoffs. His labor reforms are an attack on working people in France's labor market.

Why do you believe Macron is making their lives easy?

If that was the case, then all these people wouldn't want to kick his butt out. His approval rating wouldn't be in the toilet.

He sucks. Maybe Macron is making life easy if you're rich thanks to the recent tax cut.

However, if you're not so lucky, then the French economy under Macron's leadership is a joke. His whole premise for doing what he's doing is dubious and going to ruin a lot of lives. It's dead wrong and immoral.

Measures in France like unemployment, economic growth and median take home pay aren't going head to where people want them with a shill like Macron in the driver's seat.

One big difference between Macron and Pres. Trump, is that Trump cut taxes for all Americans and didn't turn around to attack the little guy.

The Trump team also encourages companies to create jobs rather than shed them when they're are doing well. You would think that's common sense, but apparently the new leader of the free world has a different approach.

That's because he's convinced that you don't rule a country through polls, but through political programs. That's one of the major disagreements he had with François Hollande (former president, whom he worked with), who changed all his policies when the wind turned.
I'm not sure why you believe that.

Macron is just another ideologue beta testing his wild worldviews about "structural reform" on the poor citizens of France.

And he's changing his policies due to week after week of protests and riots instead of which way the wind blows. I can only speak for myself, but Hollande seems like he has the better approach.
 
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Alx

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One example is that firms cut 1000s of jobs following record sales and high profits last year in part because Macron and his supporters lowered legal restrictions on layoffs.
Er, what law are you mentioning exactly ? There was no major change in legal restrictions on layoffs under Macron. And even if unemployment is still bad in France, it actually decreased in the last years.

Macron is just another ideologue beta testing his wild worldviews about "structural reform" on the poor citizens of France.
There's nothing experimental in what Macron is doing, most of his reforms are basically what Germany did in the 90s and the 2000s, when they were facing their own economical difficulties. And it worked for them.

As for changing his policies because of the protests, it's not that obvious. He did have to concede on some points and hurt the balance of the budget, but except for the fuel tax (that is most probably postponed), the changes he announced this month were already meant to happen, only spread on several years. He didn't backtrack on any of his major policies, especially the wealth tax reform that is one of the most criticized.
 
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i hate these stupid political talks where clearly the person doesnt know anything about politics but throws out a well known name in hopes people speak up so they can feel better about their threads. think about the millions of duerter dirte or whatever the fuck that dudes name was which has zero consequence to the way we live but. hes a name and these people will make these topics off their names in some weird way. yall make me fucking sick
 

Hypnotoad

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I see it like this: Trump is a horrible human being and a pretty bad leader. However, his administration, despite the infighting, is actually made up of some pretty capable people, and has been overall benefical to the US. I would even go so far as to say that the policies enacted in the last two years are the most pro-labour ones in decades and greatly benefit American workers. On top of that, we haven't seen a major war under Trump, and he actually is keeping true to most of his campaign promises in foreign policy, which I quite admire. The paradigm shift on globalism and issues like China and NAFTA would have happened under Bernie, too. Not so much with Hillary. She likely would have started some new war and sold out Taiwan to China by now.

The one issue I can't get over with Trump is not his character, or the horrible optics of his presidential reign. It's really the issue of climate change denial where I am just completely opposed to him. Everything else turned out as good or bad as expected, with a few pleasant surprises inbetween.
 
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Nobody_Important

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I see it like this: Trump is a horrible human being and a pretty bad leader. However, his administration, despite the infighting, is actually made up of some pretty capable people, and has been overall benefical to the US. I would even go so far as to say that the policies enacted in the last two years are the most pro-labour ones in decades and greatly benefit American workers. On top of that, we haven't seen a major war under Trump, and he actually is keeping true to most of his campaign promises in foreign policy, which I quite admire. The paradigm shift on globalism and issues like China and NAFTA would have happened under Bernie, too. Not so much with Hillary. She likely would have started some new war and sold out Taiwan to China by now.

The one issue I can't get over with Trump is not his character, or the horrible optics of his presidential reign. It's really the issue of climate change denial where I am just completely opposed to him. Everything else turned out as good or bad as expected, with a few pleasant surprises inbetween.
While I don't agree with all of this I respect the conclusion 100%. Trump's stance (and by association the GOP's stance) on climate change is completely inexcusable.


Denying climate change at this point with all of the science and information available is intentionally ignorant to point of outright stupidity. Its anti-science and anti-intelligence. The only reason that Trump and the GOP are opposing climate change is that they see the ability to make profit from industries that are affected by green energy alternatives that would come about if climate change was acknowledged as being fact. And the only reason that their base ignorantly supports it is because they do not know any better and blindly trust what their corrupt leaders tell them.
 
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Er, what law are you mentioning exactly ? There was no major change in legal restrictions on layoffs under Macron. And even if unemployment is still bad in France, it actually decreased in the last years.
Macron didn't reform the Code du Travail? If he didn't make any major changes to the labor market, then why are people out in the streets? Is something free being given away? Also, I'm not following your latter point about unemployment. Did it fall because of Macron's structural reforms?

There's nothing experimental in what Macron is doing, most of his reforms are basically what Germany did in the 90s and the 2000s, when they were facing their own economical difficulties. And it worked for them.
It's experimental and really dumb. It doesn't seem like he did much critical thinking about it.

For example, in our study we find that a Hartz-type reform of the unemployment insurance system in France or Spain would have relatively modest effects on the French or Spanish unemployment rate. The reason for this finding is simple. The benefits paid to the long-term unemployed are already low in France and very low in Spain, and reducing these unemployment benefits to even lower levels is not likely to have large incentive effects. In contrast, the German unemployment-insurance system was very generous to the long-term unemployed before the Hartz IV reform, and in this case efficiency gains from implementing the reform were quite large.
https://voxeu.org/article/german-labour-reforms-unpopular-success

Macron also could've looked around at people who attacked labor before he got in there and previewed the results.

Since the onset of the crisis, changes in labour regulations have been increasingly viewed as a
way to kick-start job creation, although the direction of change has been opposite in the European
Union compared with emerging and some other economies. At the same time, there is a growing
recognition that labour regulation is necessary “to protect workers from arbitrary or unfair treatment and
to ensure efficient contracting between employers and workers” (World Bank, 2015).

Importantly, the most recent studies and meta-analyses demonstrate that labour regulation can
vary across a wide range without significant effects on the economy or employment creation. The
issue is how to design regulation for the particular economic and labour market environment, since
regulations that are too lax, as well as those which are too stringent, can be counterproductive to
economic growth, job creation, equality and social cohesion
http://www.ilo.org/wcmsp5/groups/public/---dgreports/---dcomm/---publ/documents/publication/wcms_368626.pdf

As for changing his policies because of the protests, it's not that obvious. He did have to concede on some points and hurt the balance of the budget, but except for the fuel tax (that is most probably postponed), the changes he announced this month were already meant to happen, only spread on several years. He didn't backtrack on any of his major policies, especially the wealth tax reform that is one of the most criticized.
Looks pretty obvious to me.

Macron is embarrassed that people are protesting and rioting in the streets on the weekends because he's doing a piss poor job. The country is being run into the ground and folks want him out.

At the end of the day, I think it's crystal clear his agenda to get France back on the right track is very poor compared to Pres. Trump. Not sure what makes him a better leader. Look at the economy. Look at his approval rating. The results speak for themselves. Macron is not very good.
 

Alx

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Macron didn't reform the Code du Travail? If he didn't make any major changes to the labor market, then why are people out in the streets? Is something free being given away? Also, I'm not following your latter point about unemployment. Did it fall because of Macron's structural reforms?
.
well first you need to know that French people are almost always on the streets. That's why nobody is surprised by the yearly strikes any more, and most politicians were claiming until recently that the country was impossible to reform.
Second, it turns out that everything considered, very few people have been protesting under Macron. The opposition called for global strikes and a "popular tidal wave" , but it fell flat and the "impossible reforms"went through. Even the yellow vest movement is tiny compared to common protestation (300k demonstrators at its highest, not even half of what is commonly considered a major event). The main issue with it was it was too chaotic to keep things under control, had the sympathy of the population and could have created tensions within Macron'soen party. That's why he had to do specific gestures, to show that he's listening but also still heading in the same direction.
And third, you can't seriously accuse Macron of attacking labor and praise Trump in the same post. Trump is all about deregulation, Macron barely loosened some regulations while "on the other hand" trying to compensate that with social support.
And yes I was using unemployment trends to show that Macron's policies were not an "attack on labor that would create unemployment", since unemployment decreased, after having him both as minister of economy and then president.
 
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well first you need to know that French people are almost always on the streets. That's why nobody is surprised by the yearly strikes any more, and most politicians were claiming until recently that the country was impossible to reform.
Second, it turns out that everything considered, very few people have been protesting under Macron. The opposition called for global strikes and a "popular tidal wave" , but it fell flat and the "impossible reforms"went through. Even the yellow vest movement is tiny compared to common protestation (300k demonstrators at its highest, not even half of what is commonly considered a major event). The main issue with it was it was too chaotic to keep things under control, had the sympathy of the population and could have created tensions within Macron'soen party. That's why he had to do specific gestures, to show that he's listening but also still heading in the same direction.
Okay. Thank you for your view.

And third, you can't seriously accuse Macron of attacking labor and praise Trump in the same post. Trump is all about deregulation, Macron barely loosened some regulations while "on the other hand" trying to compensate that with social support.
Why not?

The idea the Trump admin is all for deregulation is a caricature. They're for it in certain areas and the gov't intervening in others.

In other words, Pres. Trump wants to bring jobs back to the US. In addition, Trump routinely takes on US firms like GM that lay off hard working people.

Alternatively, Macron's reforms to date have enabled firms with high sales and profit margins to shed jobs while they're doing well. The smart things Pres. Trump does are not the same as the dumb things Macron does.

And yes I was using unemployment trends to show that Macron's policies were not an "attack on labor that would create unemployment", since unemployment decreased, after having him both as minister of economy and then president.
You're not showing that though. If you think about it, if Macron policies induced companies to shed jobs, then how are his reforms the reason unemployment is falling in France? And theoretically his reforms shouldn't work well given the economic circumstances in France. The idea he can conjure up some German-style reforms and succeed is almost certainly dead wrong. It seems obvious to me Macron and his supporters did not do much critical thinking about deregulation. Furthermore, even in Germany, the reforms created winners as well as a notable amount of losers.

In any event, I don't see why people think Macron is a competent technocrat or the new leader of the free world. Macron's agenda to put France back on track is not very good compared to Pres. Trump's campaign to MAGA.
 
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TrainedRage

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Still there is a difference between nationalist conservative leader and moron.
You're right there is a difference. Although you probably just didn't punctuate your response correctly.

I take it you are a globalist liberal? Or some sort of libertarian that lives in a large city?
 
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NickFire

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Bill Gates has enough money to make everybody in this country a millionaire and not change his lifestyle one bit.
Um, you sure about that. 330,000,000 * 1,000,000 = 330,000,000,000,000. I don't think he has that laying around.
 

Cucked SoyBoy

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Climate change is not real. You can tell because the people saying that the ocean is about to rise, are not getting rid of their expensive beachfront houses.
 

Blood Borne

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Macron is a Rothschild Banker. A Rothschild Investment Banker. A Rothschild Investment Fuckin Banker. Yet the left love and support him. When Karl Marx was talking about the bourgeoisie, he was talking about Macron. The left have totally abandoned their values. It’s all about identity politics now.
 

Alx

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Macron is a Rothschild Banker. A Rothschild Investment Banker. A Rothschild Investment Fuckin Banker. Yet the left love and support him.
He's not even the first Rothschild banker from the left, see Henri Emmanuelli. There's nothing shameful in being an investment banker, nor does it say anything about your political stance or human value.
 

Blood Borne

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He's not even the first Rothschild banker from the left, see Henri Emmanuelli. There's nothing shameful in being an investment banker, nor does it say anything about your political stance or human value.
I agree but the left keeps harping on about elites, 1%, greedy capitalists etc and that they only care about poor, proletariat, etc and in the same breath hail/champion an elite investment banker as “the man for the people” seems very incongruent to their political mantra.
 
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He's not even the first Rothschild banker from the left, see Henri Emmanuelli. There's nothing shameful in being an investment banker, nor does it say anything about your political stance or human value.
There's definitely something shameful about the way Macron thinks and views the world if someone is willing to throw egg in his face.


His investment banking background has probably warped his ideology about regulation and deregulation. Maybe if his grand plan for France made sense or his work to date improved working people's lives, then accordingly so many of the French wouldn't hate him.
 

Kazza

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Pfft, French pansy! Here's how British politicians deal with that shit:
 
May 15, 2018
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i hate these stupid political talks where clearly the person doesnt know anything about politics but throws out a well known name in hopes people speak up so they can feel better about their threads. think about the millions of duerter dirte or whatever the fuck that dudes name was which has zero consequence to the way we live but. hes a name and these people will make these topics off their names in some weird way. yall make me fucking sick
seems my point stills stands. you all should be embarrassed