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Why do some women criticize sexualized character designs?

Are you fine with sexualized character designs?


  • Total voters
    250

Michele

you.
Jun 7, 2018
761
841
820
Original title: Why women criticize sexualied character design
Ok, so recently, this controversary has been getting a bit more traction in some parts of the Internet. Era is the obvious one, but I'm seeing more traction on other forums/sites too. At first I was a bit relucant to talk about it but after some talking I figured I'd get this thread here too. Ahem...

Before I talk, I'd like to say that I'm a male, not a girl. I don't have any 'sexual' personality, whatever that is. I sometimes do review, but there are some games I and other women would criticize, that has nothing to do slut or racism, it has to do with frustration. How are we supposed to combat sexism in gaming, if the biggest thing and examples, which reinforce and reflect the sexist viewpoints - is consistently let slide?

If we have a game, where all dudes like me are covered, and a girl has only the bikini or partially nude and feels uncomfortable, then it's sexist, because it reinforces this idea tht all women are 'objects' and exist solely for pleasure. Like, ew, that's disgusting. The women wants to be treated like goddamn peoples, and NOT for pleasure.

There's nothing wrong with a woman wearing a bikini if a game is set in beach, and the male characters are in their swimming trunks. But to me, I just feel like lately I've noticed that developers are so desperate for those personal things, like boobs, and it just feels like 'Wow, do you want to do this badly? Can't you, like, leave us alone for five minutes?!' If she needs to be undressed, then come on, at least let her wear bras and skirts. It just feels like, 'okay, we get it already, this game is for dudes, and the women are there just for eye candy and pleasure' I'm a male, but this still doesn't mean I can't ask this, for the sake of other women: Can we stop now, please?

TLDR: I (and the other women) feel like the game developers are so desperate, that they actually want to make sexualized designs of the women. It's like they want the dudes to feel pleasure with other women, whenever it be intentional or not, and it's getting tiring and annoying to let the women be simply called objects, thus making the actions sexist. They are not objects, they are peoples, and they want to be treated as such.

Unh...with this long post out now, I'd like to know your opinion, so far about the sexism in gaming.

edit: I want to clarify this for newcomers. If you don't think this is for you, you don't have to partecipate. That is all.
 
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DunDunDunpachi

Patient MembeR
Apr 18, 2018
13,312
24,218
1,260
USA
dunpachi.com
Prudishness in products of entertainment and art has never ended well...

No amount of mental gymnastics will convince rational people that sexy ladies (or dudes) in our entertainment is some kind of Freudian projection of our inner-misogyny toward women, let alone some form of intentional oppression.
 

Ulysses 31

Member
Nov 24, 2013
3,848
1,825
565
Women is a rather broad term, it's usually inconfident women who complain about it.
 

trufflepigg

Member
Mar 29, 2012
149
139
535
I enjoy playing video games with attractive characters, I enjoy watching movies with attractive characters. That's all there is to it.
 

Cunth

Fingerlickin' Good!
May 22, 2018
4,710
13,218
825
Let me ask my wife.

Nope, she don’t give a shit
 

Real

Neo Member
Jan 30, 2017
44
40
155
Is this a joke? Just because you dont like it why should it not exist? If you don't like it don't buy it, it's that simple. I'd personally much rather look at someone who is beautiful than someone who isn't. They don't have to be objectified, you're the one doing that.

Games are fantasy they aren't real, why do all the characters need to be.
 

gioGAF

Member
Jun 14, 2011
1,590
378
660
I don't see a problem with sexualized character designs. Why shouldn't developers of a product be allowed to target a specific audience? Should I demand Victoria's Secret caterer to me?

The whole notion that liking a sexualized character design is somehow bad is also ridiculous. Crap like beauty pageants getting rid of swimsuits for "reasons" are so stupid. It is a beauty pageant! Contestants are judged on their looks. The irony is that these so-called moral authorities are telling these other women how they need to behave and what they need to be like.

You as a consumer get to choose. "Hey, I don't like this so I am not buying it." That doesn't seem too hard to me. Just in the same way that I will probably not buy things that are doing things that I don't like. Seems like most of the games I buy these days are made outside of the US, since everything here is mostly about virtue signaling these days, smh.
 
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A.Romero

Member
Feb 23, 2009
2,156
813
970
Mexico
www.lavejota.com
I never met anyone in real life that cares about this.

More importantly, I think that the people that are trying to instigate a change in this regard are approaching the wrong industry. Sexualized characters are available (maybe even the norm) in pretty much all media. I think they chose approach other industries before video games. That said, we already know that the music industry and Hollywood don't give a fuck and apparently most consumers don't either.

Wrong battle, wrong industry and the wrong way to approach it. I feel there will be a huge push back soon now that the industry is realizing that pandering to the market section that has that moral code is simply not profitable. Fallout is a good example and regretfully I think BFV will be another.

That said, I'm a 34 yo Mexican dude. I don't have a six pack, I don't speak perfect English and I don't share many of the values that are portrayed in video games. I never cared that Nathan Drake is not Mexican, for example and I'll probably never care that media often uses Mexicans as criminals or comedic relief. It doesn't stop my enjoyment of the product not even one bit. I want to see stories, play games and in general have fun, not see my ethnic background or whatever represented there. I don't need to experience my own life through media, I want to experience others.
 

Nymphae

Member
Jun 3, 2013
7,168
5,560
845
Canada
Playing street fighter the other day and my girlfriend laughed at Vs screen with Laura's massive cans popping out. She's not a big gamer, I said "You know there are people who complain about that and think this is harmful to society" and she just laughed and said "But men like it? And it's not real so why do the women care?"

I said that's a great question lol.
 

Danjin44

The nicest person on this forum
Mar 22, 2017
7,890
8,505
800
I don't want to live in the world that it wrong to like design like this.
 

Geki-D

Member
Dec 6, 2017
2,389
2,296
505
Ok, so recently, this controversary has been getting a bit more traction in some parts of the Internet. Era is the obvious one, but I'm seeing more traction on other forums/sites too. At first I was a bit relucant to talk about it but after some talking I figured I'd get this thread here too. Ahem...
Yeah, on ERA no doubt but if anything it seems like people don't care about this at all anymore. It was a talking point a few years back but it blew over.
Before I talk, I'd like to say that I'm a male, not a girl.
So you're offended on behalf of other people. Gotcha.
If we have a game, where all dudes like me are covered, and a girl has only the bikini or partially nude and feels uncomfortable, then it's sexist, because it reinforces this idea tht all women are 'objects' and exist solely for pleasure.
Wait, if the girl in the game "feels uncomfortable"? Dude, they aren't real people. Also could you link your source for games causing men in real life to see women as sex objects?
The women wants to be treated like goddamn peoples, and NOT for pleasure.
The women in video games aren't real so what they want isn't really relevant, they don't "want" anything. Now can you show us that depicting women in games in a sexual manner has an impact on real world women?
There's nothing wrong with a woman wearing a bikini if a game is set in beach, and the male characters are in their swimming trunks. But to me, I just feel like lately I've noticed that developers are so desperate for those personal things, like boobs
Excuse me? What actual mainstream games feel like this these days? What year did you actually write this in? I'm not saying none exist, but besides a few obscure and less obscure Japanese games, this is totally not true.
It just feels like, 'okay, we get it already, this game is for dudes, and the women are there just for eye candy and pleasure' I'm a male, but this still doesn't mean I can't ask this, for the sake of other women: Can we stop now, please?
Again, this is not the trend modern games are taking. I'm really assuming you wrote this years ago or don't play too many video games.
I (and the other women)
Who are these other women? Do they actually play games? Do the ones that do actually care?
feel like the game developers are so desperate, that they actually want to make sexualized designs of the women. It's like they want the dudes to feel pleasure with other women, whenever it be intentional or not, and it's getting tiring and annoying to let the women be simply called objects, thus making the actions sexist.
Third time. I think you need to stop playing hentai games on steam and actually see what's coming out these days.
They are not objects, they are peoples, and they want to be treated as such.
No, they don't. Women in video games aren't real people. In till they achieve sentience and rise up, what they want doesn't matter. As to what real women want, the current gaming landscape is perfectly inclusive. There are games that do feature sexualize women, more that don't. If you don't like the games that have sexy girls in them, play something else.
 
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Helios

Member
Jun 13, 2018
2,540
4,402
705
I can somewhat understand your problem when the pandering is too on the nose and catering to horny teens rather than making a good game. I.E. most visual novels. Than again, the answer to that is just : Don't buy it.
At the same time I don't really understand what you mean by this
If we have a game, where all dudes like me are covered, and a girl has only the bikini or partially nude and feels uncomfortable, then it's sexist, because it reinforces this idea tht all women are 'objects' and exist solely for pleasure. Like, ew, that's disgusting. The women wants to be treated like goddamn peoples, and NOT for pleasure.
It's a video game, they are objects in a certain way. Doesn't mean that somehow dehumanizes actual women
You also have pandering on the other side. To continue the Street Fighter examples, what do you think of this?

Edit : I forgot to include my boi Urien
 
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Nov 13, 2016
1,543
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395
Can we stop now, please?
Stop? With what? All sexualized designs in games?
That's calling for censorship, you know. If you're in favour of censorship, there's no further discussion to be had. If you're not, and you're just asking devs to cater to your feelings, I hope they will keep in mind they're making games for their customers, not to encourage social change.
 

Whataburger

Milk Connoisseur
Feb 2, 2018
6,553
5,020
790
Please don't assume other users on this board don't have a SO.
Playing street fighter the other day and my girlfriend laughed at Vs screen with Laura's massive cans popping out. She's not a big gamer, I said "You know there are people who complain about that and think this is harmful to society" and she just laughed and said "But men like it? And it's not real so why do the women care?"

I said that's a great question lol.
You have a gf? Huh.
 

Isa

Member
Nov 28, 2017
377
268
255
This is ridiculous and a non-issue. My gf has played dozens of hours in DOAXtreme3 for example, she loves the escapist fantasy and (que suerte yo tengo) she actually greatly resembles a few of the characters. In any game she and I play the "chicas" and she goes looking for all the costumes especially the kinky ones. I can't help but feel this is a bait thread though...
 

Northeastmonk

Member
Mar 18, 2013
11,409
888
770
Omaha, NE - USA
My wife points it out more than I do. She seems to enjoy the fact that its there than if it wasn't. I asked her why she played "X-Blades" because I thought it was a crappy game and why didn't she play Devil May Cry or Ninja Gaiden. She said it was because she liked how the main character wore such skimpy clothes. So she's more interested in the way she dresses than playing Ninja Gaiden with boob physics or better gameplay mechanics? What gives?

Other than that she doesn't really care about video games either way. The females I know who did game, gamed in their past, and they don't really care if they play video games or not. I tried explaining ShenMue to my wife and she said "don't fill me head with useless BS". Sometimes I feel like there is only a small percentage of females who actually care about video games the same way as the people on the internet do. My sister hated video games and I was told by my wife to take "GameStop" off my resume because that will never get me a good job.
 
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Pejo

Member
Jul 1, 2009
8,644
1,162
1,005
I think there's value in your conversation OP, but I feel like you went about it the wrong way by instantly calling it sexist. There are a myriad of reasons why this is done. There's a market for it, consumers want it. There's also plenty of room for non sexualized women in games of all types. But calling for a stop of one thing to force the other doesn't seem like the answer in any sort of art form.
 

Razzorn34

Member
Mar 19, 2014
1,704
46
355
It's tiring hearing about this kind of crap day after day, when anything sexy is just accepted in all other forms of media. Why do video games need to be singled out for this? They don't, and the shit needs to stop.
 

CRUNT

Member
Sep 21, 2006
1,217
355
1,060
There's more games than ever that have women characters who are not wearing bikinis or dressed over sexually.

Not every game is going to be made for your personal preferences, so vote with your dollars. The more games sold of the type that you like will bring more of those games in the future.

Many consumers do like sexy stuff in video games and suggesting to take that away from them is quite rude.
 

LucidFeuer

Banned
Jan 28, 2018
976
401
330
Ok, so recently, this controversary has been getting a bit more traction in some parts of the Internet. Era is the obvious one, but I'm seeing more traction on other forums/sites too. At first I was a bit relucant to talk about it but after some talking I figured I'd get this thread here too. Ahem...

Before I talk, I'd like to say that I'm a male, not a girl. I don't have any 'sexual' personality, whatever that is. I sometimes do review, but there are some games I and other women would criticize, that has nothing to do slut or racism, it has to do with frustration. How are we supposed to combat sexism in gaming, if the biggest thing and examples, which reinforce and reflect the sexist viewpoints - is consistently let slide?

If we have a game, where all dudes like me are covered, and a girl has only the bikini or partially nude and feels uncomfortable, then it's sexist, because it reinforces this idea tht all women are 'objects' and exist solely for pleasure. Like, ew, that's disgusting. The women wants to be treated like goddamn peoples, and NOT for pleasure.

There's nothing wrong with a woman wearing a bikini if a game is set in beach, and the male characters are in their swimming trunks. But to me, I just feel like lately I've noticed that developers are so desperate for those personal things, like boobs, and it just feels like 'Wow, do you want to do this badly? Can't you, like, leave us alone for five minutes?!' If she needs to be undressed, then come on, at least let her wear bras and skirts. It just feels like, 'okay, we get it already, this game is for dudes, and the women are there just for eye candy and pleasure' I'm a male, but this still doesn't mean I can't ask this, for the sake of other women: Can we stop now, please?

TLDR: I (and the other women) feel like the game developers are so desperate, that they actually want to make sexualized designs of the women. It's like they want the dudes to feel pleasure with other women, whenever it be intentional or not, and it's getting tiring and annoying to let the women be simply called objects, thus making the actions sexist. They are not objects, they are peoples, and they want to be treated as such.

Unh...with this long post out now, I'd like to know your opinion, so far about the sexism in gaming.
Not a mention of the fact that men are more sexualised...you've won ZERO empathy for me.

Also the fact that you say "I" as a male "and other women" makes you character shady and hypocrite...
 

NickFire

Member
Mar 12, 2014
4,986
3,797
625
I think some people are in fact sexist. But I think some people have a tough time distinguishing between sexism and targeting an audience that puts the food on the plate. And some people are just plain and simple hypocrites, who have no qualms with content producers targeting certain audiences they give special status to, but take great objection to content producers targeting the audience who is most likely going to drive 80-95% of the best case scenario for revenue.
 

ickythingz

Banned
Jan 10, 2018
470
507
190
There is not a single real woman who cares about this. These characters are fictional and I am disgusted by people who say that someone does not have a creative right to create whatever they want. People can create whatever they want. If you can't handle this OP, you have other issues you need to deal with before you are allowed to preach to me. People who are unable to handle a the visual representation of someones creative mind are weak and serve no purpose in existence
 

hecatomb

Banned
Jul 30, 2018
2,210
977
250
Cause women who live in 1st world countries have nothing else better to do? Its not like they try to offer any real help to anyone else but themselves, or complain about minor things that have no effect on them in their daily life.

Like whens the last time you've actually seen a sjw feminist actually help people who need help?
 
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Silvawuff

Member
Mar 9, 2012
2,261
155
550
I'm a woman, and I don't care about any video game character designs. I do like to see fanservice with guys, which is pretty rare, but eh, whatever.
 

TheShadowLord

Member
Jan 7, 2018
2,584
1,142
545
I can somewhat understand your problem when the pandering is too on the nose and catering to horny teens rather than making a good game. I.E. most visual novels. Than again, the answer to that is just : Don't buy it.
At the same time I don't really understand what you mean by this

It's a video game, they are objects in a certain way. Doesn't mean that somehow dehumanizes actual women
You also have pandering on the other side. To continue the Street Fighter examples, what do you think of this?

Edit : I forgot to include my boi Urien
While I am not the user you are quoting, the closest thing I have seen that come as an objectified male that was also controversial was this one I believe.
 

monegames

Member
Sep 26, 2014
2,193
1,775
530
OP, you know we had this debate about 20 years ago. It was just over violence instead of sexuality. Do video games change the behavior of the players? The answer then was No, and the answer now is still no. If games can influence the sexual behavior of players, then it would also change the violent behavior as well wouldn't you agree? If so, violence in video games should be the most important target to go after since it much more prevalent than sexualized characters. But again, we had that debate and its now ancient history.
 

lock2k

Gold Member
Jun 13, 2018
1,502
2,018
540
Brazil
I love these kinds of designs and my wife loves them too. She always laughs when I'm playing with, say, Ivy in Soul Calibur, for example. It's so exaggerated that it's almost a kind of humor.
 

Snoopycat

Banned
Mar 26, 2017
945
649
230
Man there gonna be a lot of tantrums, dog piles, red warnings, mod edits, locks and ban sweeps in this 7000 page thread.

To be serious I remember playing that last Metal Gear game and the girl gets her ass in your face in the helicopter. I liked it. It gave me a laugh but I understand why women get pissed off. If the only women you ever see in video games are just sex objects or there as props for men then yeah, that shit probably gets old fast. Before anyone start getting rowdy, I know there been some great female characters, but there not been enough, there's always room for more Laras and Ellies
 

Danjin44

The nicest person on this forum
Mar 22, 2017
7,890
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there's always room for more Laras and Ellies
If you mean the new Lara from TR Reboot series then I would say no. I rather see characters more like Chloe from Uncharted as female lead in western games.

Edit: OP, out of curiosity do you considerer designs like this sexist as well?

I just love the JoJo part 5 character designs!!!
 
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CatCouch

Member
Jul 11, 2018
815
1,048
225
I'm an artist and this stuff has been difficult to deal with when it pops up since so much of it is rooted in a hypocritical beliefs like sexy men are male power fantasies while sexy women are sexist. There has never been any consensus I can see on what's sexist and what's sexy, there will always be someone complaining a character is sexist if the issue comes up.

I want to see more sexualized art of men and women. Expressing sex appeal in art is great, it's healthy, it's natural. I don't believe it is natural to suppress one's interest in the people they find sexually appealing, whether your gay straight or anywhere in between. I've spent years of my life drawing erotic art and learning about kinks and what turns people on. It's not black and white. It's not something anyone can put a blanket definition on. You can't define what's sexy and what's sexist off of any one persons views which is what I see over and over again. You certainly shouldn't apply politics to it, which is another thing I see people do. Perception seems to taint these discussions from my experience. A gay woman artist posting gay erotic art on Tumblr can be accepted as progressive but a straight artist doing the same thing can be considered sexist (someone used this argument against me once).

I've had conversations with people who didn't like my art and it was just not helpful or insightful. It's usually quite hostile with demands that everything change to fit their view or it's sexist. I get the impression people think their views of sexuality are what should be accepted and things they don't like are "problems to be corrected". It's surprisingly narrow-minded and goes against what I learned in college from all my art classes.

My main take-away from 6 years of dealing with this stuff is the way people address these issues tends to make things worse. The progressive culture going on now is obsessed with subtraction and not addition. Instead of adding more variety of female designs in games they argue about getting rid of the designs that exist. It should be obvious that trying to take away things people enjoy is going to get you push back, especially when it's tied to their sexuality. All the unnecessary hostility towards art that's aimed at stright men only makes it harder to create a wider market for women. I want to see more games like Life Is Strange and less articles on how every Japanese game is sexist. Create more games! Don't attack creators for not creating what you like~
 

Lightsbane

Member
Jul 23, 2018
258
267
215
Shadow Vault, Icecrown
I'm fine with sexualized characters (be they male or female) and I'm equally fine with non-sexualized ones. Whatever the creators want to make is alright by me.

And I don't need to know their reasons. They can be creative, they can be financial... whatever they are, they are none of my business. As long as there is absolutely no censorship, I am happy.
 

Kamina

Golden Boy
Jun 2, 2013
4,386
1,588
750
33
Austria
Humans are sexual beings, and no matter what sex someone is, they will always enjoy looking at whatever other sex pleases them if they wear sexy clothes. Acting like this is wrong is just unnatural.
 

B_Signal

Member
May 28, 2014
803
155
280
I've known a few women who have commented on sexism in gaming, contrary to what some in this thread think they're neither "inconfident" nor fat.

I'm not going to speak for them though, I can't really. It seems to me how weighted it is is the cause of the problem, A lot of media is sexist and objectifying of women, things have got better and I think they will continue to, gaming will too.

At the same time, I think titillation has its place, it'd be a shame to lose it. If everything is balanced then there shouldn't be any problem with it, and while I'm tempted to say no one would care, I think there will be some that do. There is also every possibility that the kind of games we play will just never appeal equally, it is a shame though if some people feel like they aren't welcome. As gaming gets bigger though I think there's more room for more niches, not every game can be, nor should be, for everyone
 

Cybrwzrd

Anime waifu panty shots are basically the same thing as paintings of the french baroque masters, if you think about it.
Sep 29, 2014
4,313
4,804
785
People really need to get over their prudishness.
 

Shin

Member
Feb 4, 2013
4,351
2,073
760
Isn't there a lengthy discussion on the #metoo forum called res, ain't that enough?
 

TheExorzist

Member
Jun 17, 2006
9,439
1,110
1,350
I'm a tad bit confused by this whole outrage. Why even? What harm does it do to have sexualized males or females? Since when are games, movies or like any entertainment media educational? Haven't women been treated in films like princesses like forever? If this shit is educational, why do we still have retards sending dick picks and sexually harassing women and not hoards of white knights in the streets?
 
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Cyndane

Neo Member
Aug 12, 2018
13
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The Lost Shore
www.smashboards.com
I'm a female and honestly this has never bothered me.

Sure, sometimes it has caused an eye-roll or two from me, but to be frank, if the game is well put together and has an engaging story line, then I'm not really bothered by it.

There are plenty of other games where females are not really overly sexualized.....Samus (suited Samus anyway), Zelda herself, and some of the Resident Evil female protags, just to name a few.

I'm not saying it does not happen and that there are games out there geared towards men, but overall you have to just take it as a developer's art direction.

tl;dr - Nah.