Why does the main character from Control look less feminine than the concept art?

johncaveman12

Neo Member
Jul 15, 2018
26
24
120
The one thing that seems pretty obvious to me that nobody seems to have mentioned, as far as I can see, is that even though her lips are closed in that photo, her jaw is open. It makes her chin look bigger, but when you watch these scenes in the game, you'll see she's constantly chewing on her lip, making movements, being kinda twitchy. It's pretty easy to tell by how her bottom lip looks a bit stretched, and the skin below her lips bulge a little. It looks just like an old photo of me a s a teen that I always hated because it made my chin look enormous.

I honestly think it's a consequence of how incredibly well made this model is. There's so much detail in both it and the animation that it's actually possible to take really bad random shots of her. It's why I mentioned those Beyonce photos earlier. Gorgeous woman, but even she can look weird if you take the photo at the wrong time. In older games really bad shots are usually a consequence of bad lighting which makes especially eyes and teeth look freakish at times.




I think the thing everyone else is pointing out is... who cares? why does it matter? how is this an issue? Are we really so anal these days that devs aren't allowed to design things anymore?
We're not allowed to criticize design? Why are you so against that?
 
Aug 28, 2019
69
96
155
They sure as hell picked a great model to base the character on!

But yeah, looking at Jesse and seeing the screencaps, I think the real problem with the in-game model is she doesn't have enough fat in her cheeks. Like, her face is a little TOO lean, and I think they even narrowed the game model's cheekbones too much so that just gives her a narrow face and the chin gets emphasized because of it.
 
Last edited:

Rolling_Start

Member
Jul 25, 2019
149
231
250
You have to live under a rock to be so oblivious of the political agenda some people are trying to enforce through all kinds of popular media.
The underside of my rock also includes a very basic understand of photogrammetry, of animation, lighting and texturing, and of cameras.

Please note, I'm not great at any of these things (fuck no, I suck!), and my singular attempt to model my own face in Blender led only to something that managed to both look horrifically inhuman, and also capture the dreadful torment in my own soul.

But you're going to have to present an actual argument here, and not a blustering, all encompassing media conspiracy then ... just try and put some some points forward. Honestly. It's cool to do that.
 

Rolling_Start

Member
Jul 25, 2019
149
231
250
They sure as hell picked a great model to base the character on!

But yeah, looking at Jesse and seeing the screencaps, I think the real problem with the in-game model is she doesn't have enough fat in her cheeks. Like, her face is a little TOO lean, and I think they even narrowed the game model's cheekbones too much so that just gives her a narrow face and the chin gets emphasized because of it.
I think it's difficult. Face scans can show you the way a face looks in a certain position, but to have an accurate, algorithm based rules to animate a face you need to make assumptions about the bone structure beneath the skin and also the subdermal layers including fat and muscle.*

The quest for ever more realistic faces takes developers into an ever more challenging space.

*Unless you X-ray the shit out of their heads. Don't think people would be cool with that though...
 
Last edited:

renzolama

Member
Sep 16, 2016
1,711
171
310
I don't get it. She's an attractive woman who happens to have a somewhat masculine jawline. It could be considered a beauty flaw depending on your personal tastes but there are plenty of beautiful feminine women in the world who don't have perfect facial bone structure. You guys are missing out on a lot of life opportunities if something like this convinces you that a woman is a hideous transgender monster.
 
Last edited:
  • Love
  • Like
Reactions: josherjohn and GHG

Rolling_Start

Member
Jul 25, 2019
149
231
250
I don't get it. She's an attractive woman who happens to have a somewhat masculine jawline. It could be considered a beauty flaw depending on your personal tastes but there are plenty of beautiful feminine women in the world who don't have perfect facial bone structure. You guys are missing out on a lot of opportunities if something like this convinces you that a woman is a hideous transgender monster.
Sir, you have not yet bought into the idea that every woman in a game is an attempt to undermine your 'CIS' identity.

Once you do, you will amend your view to include accurate facial scans of real, attractive women to be an attack on you.
 

brap

Formerly 'xXxKi$$e$&Razorblade$xXx'
Jan 9, 2018
6,234
14,220
870
I don't get it. She's an attractive woman who happens to have a somewhat masculine jawline. It could be considered a beauty flaw depending on your personal tastes but there are plenty of beautiful feminine women in the world who don't have perfect facial bone structure. You guys are missing out on a lot of opportunities if something like this convinces you that a woman is a hideous transgender monster.
The in-game character is a hideous transgender monster though.
 

Rolling_Start

Member
Jul 25, 2019
149
231
250
The in-game character is a hideous transgender monster though.
Brap, you are brilliantly funny, but I question your ability to understand transgenderism through physical form:





She's a stunner. But real life exposes you to people not looking like they do in photos in magazine shoots.

Or on your love pillow.
 

brap

Formerly 'xXxKi$$e$&Razorblade$xXx'
Jan 9, 2018
6,234
14,220
870
Brap, you are brilliantly funny, but I question your ability to understand transgenderism through physical form:





She's a stunner. But real life exposes you to people not looking like they do in photos in magazine shoots.

Or on your love pillow.
She literally looks like voldermort in the first pic and if you weren't such a fucking disingenuous retard you'd know I was talking about the character model because you know, that's what I fucking said. Btw she ain't gonna fuck you. No woman is.
 

GHG

Member
Nov 9, 2006
16,144
1,080
1,255
She literally looks like voldermort in the first pic and if you weren't such a fucking disingenuous retard you'd know I was talking about the character model because you know, that's what I fucking said. Btw she ain't gonna fuck you. No woman is.
Meanwhile the women around the world are reading your posts on Neogaf and they are flocking to you. Flocking I tell ya.

They just can't get enough of brap. Are you sure you're equipped to handle all these women?
 

Durask

Member
Feb 6, 2012
1,542
322
595
To be honest, never liked US comics because for many years now (wayyy before the Woke Years) most women in US comics would have huge masculine jaws.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Isa

Rolling_Start

Member
Jul 25, 2019
149
231
250
She literally looks like voldermort in the first pic and if you weren't such a fucking disingenuous retard you'd know I was talking about the character model because you know, that's what I fucking said. Btw she ain't gonna fuck you. No woman is.
Well it's my first time being called a retard here, so thanks. You're a treasure, brap.

Also, my point was that the real woman can have a far more exaggerated facial expression than the shot in the op, even within their normal day to day human operating parameters. As proven by this particular lady's normal day to day human operating parameters doing what they do.

So given that it's an actual thing her face can do, and does do .... shouldn't you stop being upset by it?

Anyway why are you so focused on being angry about accurate models of attractive women looking trans to you?

Dude, you see "trans" in actual, accurate scans of truly smoking hot women. That's okay. Don't feel bad about it.

Just follow your feelings and find beauty. :messenger_heart:(y)
 
Last edited:

brap

Formerly 'xXxKi$$e$&Razorblade$xXx'
Jan 9, 2018
6,234
14,220
870
Meanwhile the women around the world are reading your posts on Neogaf and they are flocking to you. Flocking I tell ya.

They just can't get enough of brap. Are you sure you're equipped to handle all these women?
I'm sorry I can't hear you over the deafening sounds of millions of panties dropping for 2 tiny dick white knights on neogaf.com that think you can't have a critical opinion on a woman's looks.
 

Rolling_Start

Member
Jul 25, 2019
149
231
250
I'm sorry I can't hear you over the deafening sounds of millions of panties dropping for 2 tiny dick white knights on neogaf.com that think you can't have a critical opinion on a woman's looks.
Would you categorise accurate scans of a woman (that most would consider attractive) as being a "hideous transgender monster" the normal type of critical opinion on a woman's looks?

Or do you think there might be something intense within you driving the vitriol?

Lets share. You've gone full on attack mode. I've tried to make the case that it's not an attempt to make her masculine or ugly. I've gone full on explanatory about that.

Would you care to do the same?
 
Last edited:
  • Like
Reactions: Contica

Xaero Gravity

TagⓇ
May 12, 2013
9,848
4,921
915
Canada Eh
I'm sorry I can't hear you over the deafening sounds of millions of panties dropping for 2 tiny dick white knights on neogaf.com that think you can't have a critical opinion on a woman's looks.
Brap, you're going to end up getting banned man. I'm not saying this to be antagonistic, but just let it be. Take a step back, I don't want to see you banned :(
 

joe_zazen

Member
May 2, 2017
1,647
1,374
415
M
Brap, you're going to end up getting banned man. I'm not saying this to be antagonistic, but just let it be. Take a step back, I don't want to see you banned :(
Me neither.

At least tone down the member on member insults.

Voldemort quip was pretty funny and not directed at members, so that is type is fine.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Godzilla Emu

Rolling_Start

Member
Jul 25, 2019
149
231
250
Brap, you're going to end up getting banned man. I'm not saying this to be antagonistic, but just let it be. Take a step back, I don't want to see you banned :(
I don't want to see brap banned either, but given the things [they] are saying I think it's okay to ask for an upfront, but considered, discussion of what we're actually talking about here.

[Btw my tiny dick has never been a problem in the past. But probably because my girlfriend had even smaller expectations]
 
  • Triggered
Reactions: Cunth

Xaero Gravity

TagⓇ
May 12, 2013
9,848
4,921
915
Canada Eh
I don't want to see brap banned either, but given the things [they] are saying I think it's okay to ask for an upfront, but considered, discussion of what we're actually talking about here.

[Btw my tiny dick has never been a problem in the past. But probably because my girlfriend had even smaller expectations]
 

Cunth

Fingerlickin' Good!
May 22, 2018
4,979
14,134
825
Meanwhile the women around the world are reading your posts on Neogaf and they are flocking to you. Flocking I tell ya.

They just can't get enough of brap. Are you sure you're equipped to handle all these women?
but brap is a woman
 

Rolling_Start

Member
Jul 25, 2019
149
231
250
Why do people who defend this garbage always act as if most women are hideous and look like men? That seems sexist to me.
Real women and men have some differences, but many commonalities. That's largely due to us being the same species.

The most most interesting thing here is that actual, physically accurate hot women are being attacked as being men because of some culture war.

Most women are cool. Have you considered that it's your view of women that might be misaligned with reality?

Edit: you got a like from the forum owner for that? Seriously, most women are not hideous, and don't look like men. Not in reality, and not in games. there are some bad things happening in gaming and in genral society right now, but the pretty damn awesome modelling of a hot woman is not one of those fucked up things.
 
Last edited:

EDMIX

Member
Apr 5, 2018
2,710
1,421
370
31
South Florida aka Outer Haven
Here we go again, EDMIX, you are the SJW of NeoGaf. Everyone's just pointing out that she has MUCH more masculine features compared to the art and the person who plays her.
Whats with the name calling on here? You telling me anyone that doesn't agree with you guys MUST be a sjw? Many women look like that and I don't consider them men or it a masculine feature if clearly women have it too...

You and I just disagree, but relax on this (with us or against us) attitude bud, when SJW do that, you folks point it out as stupid as you should, but don't start doing it too once someone disagrees with you. Do you see me calling you racist, sexist or right wing alpha agenda or anything like that? Come on man.

Even disagreeing with the view point isn't allowed now?
 

EDMIX

Member
Apr 5, 2018
2,710
1,421
370
31
South Florida aka Outer Haven
To me western developer's goal is to make characters "grounded" rather than make them attractive.
? What you or I or anyone think is attractive is subjective. So I don't get this obsession with trying to force an opinion on looks to be a fact. Thats like trying to say someone married a person because they are ugly as I mean, how could they actually like someone that YOU FIND ugly? You are the only one that can understand that right? Anyone not seeing just how dumb that argument is?
 

EDMIX

Member
Apr 5, 2018
2,710
1,421
370
31
South Florida aka Outer Haven
So, even if a company has no intention at all to pander to these bozos, the public who actually consumes these products will always see a conspiracy or bias behind them (boy who cried wolf situation).
Pretty much. Media states its an agenda, everyone from both sides starts to fall for it with zero evidence. I can easily see how that can make everything think any change is some bigger picture type deal .
 
Jun 26, 2013
3,581
2,098
680
Here we go again, EDMIX, you are the SJW of NeoGaf. Everyone's just pointing out that she has MUCH more masculine features compared to the art and the person who plays her.
It's pretty telling when he goes onto another thread (the one about Anita Sarkeesian trying to start a MeToo campaign in the video game industry) and complains about this one even though the topics aren't related.
 

MagnesG

Member
Apr 20, 2019
871
486
365
Let's just say that if this keeps happening time and time again - which I kinda see the pattern now recently (dudebro feminist stereotypes for example), I'm not gonna bother with western games whenever I see the red flag. It's a mild turn off whenever I see it, and I'm sure there's tons of more games I want to play that do these things right, with better gameplay to boot.

Control's fine I think, plus the overall standards from their face models are already low, and you don't see that weird angle too often. I also think it's unintentional.

A bit unrelated, but this is one of the important aspect the developers should be aware of. Are their games being attractive and enticing to players? The whole thing's subjective, with many variables to consider (characters, environment, designs, story, gameplay etc.) but take it from there why we as the players were cared enough to complain, and in this case why it's always the same thing.

If you don't care about it, fair enough.
 

johncaveman12

Neo Member
Jul 15, 2018
26
24
120
Whats with the name calling on here? You telling me anyone that doesn't agree with you guys MUST be a sjw? Many women look like that and I don't consider them men or it a masculine feature if clearly women have it too...

You and I just disagree, but relax on this (with us or against us) attitude bud, when SJW do that, you folks point it out as stupid as you should, but don't start doing it too once someone disagrees with you. Do you see me calling you racist, sexist or right wing alpha agenda or anything like that? Come on man.

Even disagreeing with the view point isn't allowed now?
Hey, I'm just saying you're views make you out to be a SJW.
 

Danjin44

The nicest person on this forum
Mar 22, 2017
8,185
9,107
800
The western designs are not more realistic, the are atrocious.
Even the "average" or "below average" women I see in reality are bloody super models in comparison to the characters they design.
My point is this mostly what western think about when they design their characters, now if successful or not with that is different story.

This all just my personal opinion. To me it seems western developers are desperately trying to make gaming industry seem more “mature” so in their eyes and sexy designs seems “immature” to them, in my opinion that such wrong mind set to have.
 
Last edited:
Oct 26, 2018
4,663
3,898
440
No doubt the lead character isn't your sexy bombshell female, but don't see anything wrong with that.

In my books, not every character has to be super meathead or super sleaze. For a change, why not have some normal looking characters for once.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Contica

captainraincoat

Gold Member
Nov 15, 2010
2,914
1,762
930
Remedy tends to be weird with faces. in Quantum Break the lead chick also looked off compared to her actress in live action.
The male leads in quantum break were also off in some parts.....im pretty sure it's the shaders and lighting they like to use
 

Jon Neu

..he neus nothing
Jan 21, 2018
1,372
1,569
515
Republic of Catalonia
The underside of my rock also includes a very basic understand of photogrammetry, of animation, lighting and texturing, and of cameras.
Thanks for sharing, I guess.

But you're going to have to present an actual argument here, and not a blustering, all encompassing media conspiracy then ... just try and put some some points forward. Honestly. It's cool to do that.
You still haven't presented any actual point, neither an argument. You are just basically doing damage control by claiming that every criticism that points at a company having a political agenda it's just people seeing things that don't exist. Which is basically you talking out of your ass, just like the rest of us.

With the actual political obsession to push a certain narratives, you can already see red flags looking at the character alone. And I'm not talking about weird camera angle shoots.

Most women are cool. Have you considered that it's your view of women that might be misaligned with reality?
Oh boy.
 

Ivellios

Member
Mar 26, 2015
1,518
915
520
Brazil
My point is this mostly what western think about when they design their characters, now if successful or not with that is different story.

This all just my personal opinion. To me it seems western developers are desperately trying to make gaming industry seem more “mature” so in their eyes and sexy designs seems “immature” to them, in my opinion that such wrong mind set to have.
I dont know if the real reason western devs do this is because its more mature.

I see it more like they are intentionally trying not to upset people who complain that woman are just there to be sexualized in the game. By doing this western devs are limiting their criativity of character design out of fear of upsetting these people imo.

Which is why im glad Japanese games could not care less about any of that and we keep seeing developers just doing what they want without restriction.
 

RevenantX

Member
Mar 15, 2018
895
704
470
Fuk these western devs and their SJW bs. They allergic to make women pretty in their games