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Why doesn't Nintendo release SNES- and N64-games for the virtual console of the 3DS?

Pyrokai

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Feb 27, 2008
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Since we're on the topic of Virtual Console......

Is there a chance that in the future (as in their next console and handheld) we won't have to wait for them to essentially REMAKE the VC from scratch again? The Wii > Wii U transition was horrible losing all those games and such. I'd hate to go through the entire thing all over again.

I don't know the technical side of things, but is there a way that 3DS and Wii U Virtual Console titles can be carried over to one single platform or another? Let's say the NX (I know we don't know if it's a portable or console). But can they feasibly use the emulation they created on 3DS and Wii U and "fuse" it together for the NX while still meeting their QA standards and uniform UI standards?
 

Ziffles

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It looks like blargsnes can handle all early flagship titles sans custom chips perfectly. I'm sure all the old konami action games and even MMX 1 would run fine, too.

Most importantly, the sound is properly synced, and not a blippy mess like Zsnes. God I fucking hate zsnes.
 

Tuck

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Feb 23, 2011
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They should.

That said, i'm glad they're releasing SNES and GBA games on Wii U. 3DS isn't comfortable.
 

jholmes

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Since we're on the topic of Virtual Console......

Is there a chance that in the future (as in their next console and handheld) we won't have to wait for them to essentially REMAKE the VC from scratch again? The Wii > Wii U transition was horrible losing all those games and such. I'd hate to go through the entire thing all over again.

I don't know the technical side of things, but is there a way that 3DS and Wii U Virtual Console titles can be carried over to one single platform or another? Let's say the NX (I know we don't know if it's a portable or console). But can they feasibly use the emulation they created on 3DS and Wii U and "fuse" it together for the NX while still meeting their QA standards and uniform UI standards?
Nintendo says the framework of the Virtual Console on Wii U is built to be forward-compatible, just for that reason. I wouldn't expect we'll necessarily get the full library from Day 1 but it should be a better transition. Whether that's the same case with the 3DS's Game Boy stuff is unclear.
 

Peltz

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I think it's perfectionism. I think if they can't emulate a game with 99.99% accuracy, they see it as a failure and a blemish.
Have you seen N64 VC on Wii? It's not even close to 99.99%. Just look at the map screen of Starfox 64.
 

Sir TapTap

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Games run like shit though, Yoshi island in an unplayable blurry mess
You can force it into 1:1 pixel mode...no idea why this isn't the default--less noticeable in 3D games (they're already blurry nightmares) but pixel art/2D games look awful in stretched. I think you hold start or select when starting a DS game or something.
 

Ridley327

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That explains why the Wii never got SNES VC games, because it couldn't run Super FX games.

Oh, wait.
Given the murkiness around the matters involving the Super FX chip, it may not be a technical reason why those games haven't shown up. If the GBA ever got a port of Star Fox, I think we would have had that made available in lieu of the SNES original, much like Yoshi's Island.
 

RootCause

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We've been wondering ever since they released the 3ds. It's a wasted oportunity.
I'm still waiting for Super Metroid, Zero Mission, Super Punchout, Super Castlevania...
 

atbigelow

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SNES runs at 21MHz. GBA runs at 16MHz. Yes it is.
Yeah as stated before, the SNES is slaughtered by the GBA in numerous ways. The only thing the GBA was lacking was a dedicated sound chip, so you ended up getting just two stereo PCM channels mixed with funky Gameboy sounds.

The GBA (and DS) even included video modes that worked almost exactly like the SNES, so ports were incredibly easy. The GBA even had an SNES plus mode, which let it run with two separate 256 color palettes; one for sprites and tiles. SNES shared a single palette. GBA could also do real-time sprite rotation, which was incredibly taxing for the SNES to use.

And of course there were the CPU differences: the SNES's CPU was slow (3.8 mhz) even when it was new.

So yeah. GBA was seriously an overcharged SNES with a shitty muffler.
 

jamesinclair

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May 13, 2005
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So people argue that the ambassador games cant be continued because they lack all the 3DS features, as you're booted into DC mode, and so Nintendo cant have you experience a suboptimal experience.

....But, um, arent they selling Wii games on the Wii U that boot you into Wii mode without all the U features...?

Can someone explain what the difference is?
 

Pokemaniac

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Huge graphical downgrade? It still has a fantastic draw distance, and every location is intact exactly as it was on the Wii. I can go to the top of Digit 2 miles above the fallen arm and I can still see everything below as clear as day.

It had a resolution drop from 480 to 240. Nothing else much changed. It's a damn impressive 3DS port.
The textures are much blurrier across the board. It's immediately obvious in all of the footage I've seen of the game.
 

Quadraphonic

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Here's a better question:

Why would Nintendo design a handheld released AFTER the Wii and its VC that was incapable of emulating these titles?

It's the same answer as your original question.
 

Rich!

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The textures are much blurrier across the board. It's immediately obvious in all of the footage I've seen of the game.
Oh yeah, but the limited vram is the cause I hear. Nothing that can be done about that, the 3DS can only take so much.
 

dlauv

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Genny processor was more powerful than the SNES processor, not to mention the GBA processor which is worlds beyond both. And they're making Genny games in 3D. Clock speeds matter little concerning generational leaps in hardware.

And finally, Wii VC was no where close to perfect concerning emulation quality, so Nintendo doesn't exactly have a perfectionist mind-set. For those concerned with clockspeed and the 3GHz SNES emulator, the Wii didn't even run at a single GHz.
 

npa189

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The new 3DS could easily run all of the VC games. They must simply not want to do the work.
 
J

Jotamide

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Because Nintendo are on a crusade to show that the Virtual Console is worth nobody's time and money.
 

Ridley327

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So people argue that the ambassador games cant be continued because they lack all the 3DS features, as you're booted into DC mode, and so Nintendo cant have you experience a suboptimal experience.

....But, um, arent they selling Wii games on the Wii U that boot you into Wii mode without all the U features...?

Can someone explain what the difference is?
The Ambassador games are a very ugly hack in comparison to what they're doing with Wii games on Wii U, which isn't much more than a simple ISO dump with some calls for the Wii U to boot it straight into Wii mode, as well as emulating the Classic Controller on the GamePad for the games that supported it. It really sticks out just how poor their solution for GBA games were for the Ambassadors with the actual GBA emulation on the Wii U, which is pristine. Playing Metroid Fusion on the 3DS is like watching an eighth generation VHS with how poor it looks in motion.
 

FLAguy954

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The new 3DS could easily run all of the VC games. They must simply not want to do the work.
Exactly. It would make WAY more sense for them to focus on VC on the 3DS but Nintendo continues to be Nintendo and they love not making money.
 

Mr-Joker

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I can play a better version of Super Metroid on 3DS right now than the piece of shit Nintendo released on Wii U in Europe. Always ends up coming down to fans doing stuff that Nintendo won't. Baffling at times.
I am still pissed off that I got the crap version of Super Metroid because simply because it had the French and German languages.

I really need to get round to homebrewing my Wii so I can play the proper version.

That explains why the Wii never got SNES VC games, because it couldn't run Super FX games.

Oh, wait.
That's more due to licensing issues.

Nintendo says the framework of the Virtual Console on Wii U is built to be forward-compatible, just for that reason. I wouldn't expect we'll necessarily get the full library from Day 1 but it should be a better transition. Whether that's the same case with the 3DS's Game Boy stuff is unclear.
Considering how they have stopped with the Game Boy library, I am guessing the 3DS successor is starting from scratch.

last video, Super Metroid 60fps on BlargSNES 3DS.

make sure you select 60fps.

https://youtu.be/bALcLweCtC8

and yes of course I suck at playing it, I had a mobile phone on a table which was embedded in my crotch during it
 

Zoloft Sonic

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As a baseline, just expect that Nintendo’s digital and legacy-content infrastructure and interfaces will always be 4-6 years behind what’s possible or convenient today. Everything else will snap into place. :/
 

WrenchNinja

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So people argue that the ambassador games cant be continued because they lack all the 3DS features, as you're booted into DC mode, and so Nintendo cant have you experience a suboptimal experience.

....But, um, arent they selling Wii games on the Wii U that boot you into Wii mode without all the U features...?

Can someone explain what the difference is?
There is no difference

The lack of features excuse was always bullshit
 

Robin64

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I am still pissed off that I got the crap version of Super Metroid because simply because it had the French and German languages.

I really need to get round to homebrewing my Wii so I can play the proper version.[/IMG]
What's "amusing" is that amiibo Tap that comes out today has the 60Hz version of Super Metroid in, for Europe.

Pretty miffed at that.
 

Piccoro

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The 3DS supposedly can't handle doing Virtual Console of the GBA, what makes you think that SNES and N64 emulation is something it can handle if it can't do something as easy to emulate as the GBA?
Why do people keep saying this? Last month the SNES game Dragon Ball Z Super Butouden 2 came out on the 3DS.
And before that they got this: Jump Legend Biography, which contains lots of NES and three SNES games.


And they run perfectly.
 

whitehawk

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It likely can't handle N64, and making an N64 emulator for the New 3DS VC after how long it took to make a good one for the Wii U is probably not a great idea.
Considering the PSPs unofficial emuator plays games pretty well, I would be surprised if the 3DS couldnt.
 

Dryk

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There is a cost benefit ratio invisible to the average person that dictates what Nintendo does and does not do but just because we don't have access to it doesn't mean it doesn't exist or doesn't make a lot of sense.
That said, what is visible to the average person is a company that announced a grand vision for the Virtual Console that everybody loved. Said company then failed to design its next pair of devices to take advantage of this system and now everyone hates them for it.

Since we're on the topic of Virtual Console......

Is there a chance that in the future (as in their next console and handheld) we won't have to wait for them to essentially REMAKE the VC from scratch again? The Wii > Wii U transition was horrible losing all those games and such. I'd hate to go through the entire thing all over again.
It's Nintendo, don't count on it.
 

ReyVGM

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Those homebrew emulators rely on hacks to run games at full speed without using too much power. Visually the games look perfect, but internally it's not accurate emulation.

What Nintendo (and Sony) do is accurate emulation, which requires a lot more processing power.
They also have to add a ton of other addional crap to make the games run as if they were apps.
 

Rich!

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Those homebrew emulators rely on hacks to run games at full speed without using too much power. Visually the games look perfect, but internally it's not accurate emulation.

What Nintendo (and Sony) do is accurate emulation, which requires a lot more processing power.
They also have to add a ton of other addional crap to make the games run as if they were apps.
Actually, the Wii VC SNES titles are full of hacks and HLE workarounds.
 

Starwolf_UK

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Those homebrew emulators rely on hacks to run games at full speed without using too much power. Visually the games look perfect, but internally it's not accurate emulation.

What Nintendo (and Sony) do is accurate emulation, which requires a lot more processing power.
They also have to add a ton of other addional crap to make the games run as if they were apps.
I think they have a it works good enough policy. The difference is Sony releases the emulator for the whole of the PS1 and updates it whenever there are problems but Nintendo issolates the emulator build for each game.

The N64 VC shows how much the Nintendo is wants accuracy is a complete lie. Moo Moo Moo farm 3 player glitch in Mario Kart 64 is not consistent with hardware (I recall it being something like some tracks are underclocked but sometimes glitches to full clock speed...on a Wii this goes to the full clock speed of the Wii rather the full clock speed of the N64), Star Fox 64 actually needed an update to add slowdown (lacking slowdown was messing up cutscenes). Majora's Mask has lighting and texture problems.

Emulating the N64 on a Wii U is far easier than on a 3DS which is really the where the argument lands.

The problem Nintendo has with VC is they have to do all the testing in house. They might actually be turning down third parties because doing all the testing to get 30% of the revenue is not viable when games don't do the volume they need for a return here.
 

OmegaDL50

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Is it really too simple to compare the 64-bit NEC VR4300 @ 93.75 MHz of the N64 with the 268 MHz ARM11 MPCore dual-core of the N3DS?

Or what does the virtual console need?
In regards to emulation going by straight spec comparisons generally doesn't work.


For example the PS2 has a 300Mhz MIPS based CPU and 32MB of RDRAM

PS2 at full speed emulation requires PC that is effectively hundreds of times faster. (I got a 3.4Ghz i5 3570k and 8GB of ram and some games still don't run full speed)

Due to the heavy CPU dependency of emulation, for the N3DS to properly emulate N64, GBA, or even SNES games at full speed, It would need a much, much faster CPU, even factoring some hacks or tricks that allow the game to run full speed despite without the need of hardware cycle accurate emulation. Some games may run via specific hacks, but the results will vary widely from game to game.
 

Robin64

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I don't think it's entirely fair to keep citing Wii VC as an example of Nintendo's VC standards, given that was a long time ago and is done now.

There's plenty of stuff they do now that still shows they don't get it anyway, like 50Hz motherfucking Super Metroid with more problems than on an actual SNES.
 

Rich!

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I don't think it's entirely fair to keep citing Wii VC as an example of Nintendo's VC standards, given that was a long time ago and is done now.

There's plenty of stuff they do now that still shows they don't get it anyway, like 50Hz motherfucking Super Metroid with more problems than on an actual SNES.
I actually played up to Wrecked Ship on my 3DS last night....and my god, it runs like a dream just like my real NTSC cart. No glitches, no slowdown, nothing.
 

JoeM86

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I don't think it's entirely fair to keep citing Wii VC as an example of Nintendo's VC standards, given that was a long time ago and is done now.

There's plenty of stuff they do now that still shows they don't get it anyway, like 50Hz motherfucking Super Metroid with more problems than on an actual SNES.
Yeah, they need to release an update to Super Metroid and the other 50hz games to make them 60hz.

Though I can see why they did it. They were trying to go for how the game was in the region upon release, and that's what Europe got, as much as it may suck. That was their intent. We may not agree with it, but that's what they were going for.

What are the other issues Super Metroid has? I just finished playing it (for the first time ever...I know), and had no issues.
 

Rich!

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Yeah, they need to release an update to Super Metroid and the other 50hz games

Though I can see why they did it. They were trying to go for how the game was in the region upon release, and that's what Europe got, as much as it may suck.
No, we didn't. We got a release worse than the original 50hz version or Wii VC release.

Numerous issues including repeated 5th frame each second, incorrect sprite speeds, fucked up wrecked ship music, etc.
 

dark10x

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Not that this would stop them, but SNES games use a narrow pixel aspect ratio that makes it difficult to display them on a low resolution display. With enough pixels, you can overcome this issue pretty well, but for something like 400x240, you'd either end up with something that was too narrow but sharp or the correct aspect ratio but blurry.
 

Starwolf_UK

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Though I can see why they did it. They were trying to go for how the game was in the region upon release, and that's what Europe got, as much as it may suck. That was their intent. We may not agree with it, but that's what they were going for.
That is not the reason at all (that is the canned response they gave during the Wii VC days). They go use US version when English only (after the Balloon Fight mutiny which proved they ignored 6 years years of customers feedback but paid attention to a shitstorm on Miiverse and some media attention) otherwise use European version (with some exceptions)

So because games like Super Metroid, Kirby's Adventure and Link to the Past were translated into German everyone gets the shit 50Hz version.

These same German translations are so important that DKC1 and Golden Sun are missing them despite their existence (in the case of Golden Sun separate ROM means separate testing). I give up trying to understand this company...
 
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Personally, I'd rather them focus on getting the rest of the Wii VC on Wii U for gamepad support. Then maybe they can share those licenses to the next portable rather than make me rebuy VC on the 3DS like they're doing with NES games.
 

Robin64

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Personally, I'd rather them focus on getting the rest of the Wii VC on Wii U for gamepad support. Then maybe they can share those licenses to the next portable rather than make me rebuy VC on the 3DS like they're doing with NES games.
I set out with two boycotts with Nintendo's VC this time.

- Won't be buying any 50Hz games, at all, no matter how much I like them. It does hurt not having Link to the Past, but I can't support that.

- Won't be buying games on Wii U that I already bought on 3DS. So my NES VC collection is confined to 3DS and this is how it will stay. Mind, this suits me fine as NES games on Wii U's VC look horrible.
 

Rich!

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Not that this would stop them, but SNES games use a narrow pixel aspect ratio that makes it difficult to display them on a low resolution display. With enough pixels, you can overcome this issue pretty well, but for something like 400x240, you'd either end up with something that was too narrow but sharp or the correct aspect ratio but blurry.
I guess, but it's fine imo. And there's always the option to offer the choice like BlargSNES offers:




Also, NES suffers from the same issue, does it not?
 

sörine

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Sep 1, 2013
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PORT. Native code, not emulation.
Only for the arcade games. MD/Genesis games are emulated roms, although they've been altered to display 3D layers. It's actually emulating a theoretical machine with spec above MD, which M2 named GigaDrive.

Port. Native code, not emulation.
Got this one right.

Port, native code, not emulation.
Nope, all Bandai's FC and SFC games are emulated on 3DS. Native ports wouldn't have been cost effective anyway.

Homebrew emulators tend to rely on speed hacks, which will make some games run, and make others glitch out.
So does Virtual Console on basically every platform. Nintendo's not doing cycle accurate emulation here, and never has.
 

c-murph

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I love the possibility to download and play old favorites from the Gameboy on my 3DS, yet I don't understand why Nintendo as of now chooses to not release SNES- and N64-games via the Virtual Console.
What Nintendo currently offers isn't quite impressive, in my opinion.

The N3DS could certainly handle SNES-games and probably N64-games, too. The latest addition of the C-stick on the New3DS would make N64-games playable with a similar control like on the N64.
With the big success of rereleases like Ocarina of Time or Majora's Mask it has shown that lots of people are willing to buy these games and I wonder why Nintendo doesn't concentrate more on the option of the Virtual Console.

Imagine releases of Super Mario World, Yoshi's Island, Chrono Trigger, F-Zero etc. for SNES and Wave Race, 1080 Snowboarding, Turok and others.

This would be a gold mine for Nintendo.
Because Nintendo.

So, even with the extra processing power of the N3DS Nintendi still can't figure out how to run GBA/SNES?