Why don't MS offer dedicated servers to 3rd party MP games?

#1
So I watched this ad and got me thinking, why don't MS offer dedicated servers to 3rd party games?

Since they have issues reaching parity in resolution with PS4, this might get people get the 3rd party MP focused game on Xbox one. I know i'm not the only one who prefer smooth online experience over slight downgrade in resolution.
 
#2
They don't already?

Since they have issues reaching parity in resolution with PS4, this might get people get the 3rd party MP focused game on Xbox one. I know i'm not the only one who prefer smooth online experience over slight downgrade in resolution.
The differences are usually more than merely in the resolution though from what I understand, no?
 
#4
They theoretically do, and for free, but no one has used them yet.

Which, of course, makes one wonder -- no sane company avoids a cost-cutting opportunity unless there's a catch.
 
#7
MS offer dedicated server but they need to pay for it.

They do .. That's what the whole azure / cloud API is for.
The whole / could API is there to be rented and use... it is not cheap.

They theoretically do, and for free, but no one has used them yet.
They offer free dev use of Azure... they need to pay to use them for consumer games... so mostly didn't use because it is expensive.
 
#9
They do, but why would third party use MS' stuff over their own solutions? It's why I never got the hype for the cloud. Outside of MS own exclusives, it won't see much use, especially with such a low install base
 
#13
They do. CoD Ghosts uses them. Probably many developers don't want to split their netcode for different versions, so end up on deciding not to use them.



I believe it doesn't, actually.

They announced it would but ended up not doing so.



MS offer dedicated server but they need to pay for it.


The whole / could API is there to be rented and use... it is not cheap.


They offer free dev use of Azure... they need to pay to use them for consumer games... so mostly didn't use because it is expensive.
I don't think that's what Microsoft claimed. They were fairly specific in saying that it would be free.

Mind, I'm not saying I believe there is absolutely no catch, but their claims were fairly clear: Anyone can use the servers for free.
 
#15
It's "Free" but indie, AAA or otherwise have ignored it for whatever reason. So either there is something else to it or big third parties prefer to use their situation for control who knows.

Although the service is not cheap -




Don't they? I thought that Titanfall and Ghosts run on them.

They do. CoD Ghosts uses them. Probably many developers don't want to split their netcode for different versions, so end up on deciding not to use them.
As far as Ghost is considered it uses the same hybrid setup on all platforms. The only games using azure are TF/Forza 5.
 
#19
They do, but why would third party use MS' stuff over their own solutions? It's why I never got the hype for the cloud. Outside of MS own exclusives, it won't see much use, especially with such a low install base
Most third party games use P2P, so that would be a reason to switch to dedicated servers.
 
#20
My guess: Because cloud services are not really free, maybe there are some limitation of much you can use for "free", something like limited bandwidth or limited CPU computations
 
#21
I don't think that's what Microsoft claimed. They were fairly specific in saying that it would be free.

Mind, I'm not saying I believe there is absolutely no catch, but their claims were fairly clear: Anyone can use the servers for free.
You can use the free servers to developer the game and make the process faster.

You need to pay to host your game for general public... for example BF4 if uses Azures needs to rent the servers.
 
#22
http://www.respawn.com/news/lets-talk-about-the-xbox-live-cloud/

How is this different from other dedicated servers?

With the Xbox Live Cloud, we don’t have to worry about estimating how many servers we’ll need on launch day. We don’t have to find ISPs all over the globe and rent servers from each one. We don’t have to maintain the servers or copy new builds to every server. That lets us focus on things that make our game more fun. And best yet, Microsoft has datacenters all over the world, so everyone playing our game should have a consistent, low latency connection to their local datacenter.

Most importantly to us, Microsoft priced it so that it’s far more affordable than other hosting options – their goal here is to get more awesome games, not to nickel-and-dime developers. So because of this, dedicated servers are much more of a realistic option for developers who don’t want to make compromises on their player experience, and it opens up a lot more things that we can do in an online game.
 
#26
Yh that was before the free servers announcement however, although I still think they pay at least for PC/X360 as only XB1 is free and from what devs have said only the thunderhead subset can be used with XB1.

Although that's not a direct quote so may not be completely accurate.
 
#27
Why don't MS offer dedicated servers to 3rd party MP games?
Ehm. They do :) We are building our new game strongly with Azure in mind for physic calculations (currently for vegetation, grass, water being manipulated by wind and objects, which would not be easy [impossible] to do with local power only). We are so happy with it that we are currently thinking about going all-in and make the game kind of addicted to Azure. The benefits are huge. Especially for singleplayer there are some risks tho, so we really need to think about it first.
 
#30
Ehm. They do :) We are building our new game strongly with Azure in mind for physic calculations (currently for vegetation, grass, water being manipulated by wind and objects, which would not be easy [impossible] to do with local power only). We are so happy with it that we are currently thinking about going all-in and make the game kind of addicted to Azure. The benefits are huge. Especially for singleplayer there are some risks tho, so we really need to think about it first.
You've got my full attention. When will get a glimps of your work? Any teases you can give us?
 
#31
Ehm. They do :) We are building our new game strongly with Azure in mind for physic calculations (currently for vegetation, grass, water being manipulated by wind and objects, which would not be easy [impossible] to do with local power only). We are so happy with it that we are currently thinking about going all-in and make the game kind of addicted to Azure. The benefits are huge. Especially for singleplayer there are some risks tho, so we really need to think about it first.
Are they really free? like there's no catch.
 
#32
Ehm. They do :) We are building our new game strongly with Azure in mind for physic calculations (currently for vegetation, grass, water being manipulated by wind and objects, which would not be easy [impossible] to do with local power only). We are so happy with it that we are currently thinking about going all-in and make the game kind of addicted to Azure. The benefits are huge. Especially for singleplayer there are some risks tho, so we really need to think about it first.
That's great news! what game are you working ?
 
#33
Maybe since ps4 is dominating they see no reason to put extra work into having two separate online systems. Especially when one console is performing undesirably worldwide.
 
#35
Are they really free? like there's no catch.
During developement, yes. I do not work for Microsoft, so I do not know if they are doing it on a case-by-case sceneraio or whatever, As soon as you begin to earn money with your game and you still want to use Azure, obviously you need to pay for the service. I think that's just fair. The prices are well balanced. The best thing about Azure is scalability and power. And especially in gaming this is what you need.

I can not comment on our game just yet, I am sorry guys! 2015.
 
#36
Ehm. They do :) We are building our new game strongly with Azure in mind for physic calculations (currently for vegetation, grass, water being manipulated by wind and objects, which would not be easy [impossible] to do with local power only). We are so happy with it that we are currently thinking about going all-in and make the game kind of addicted to Azure. The benefits are huge. Especially for singleplayer there are some risks tho, so we really need to think about it first.
Someone who knows!

Do you know if using the dedicated servers for online multiplayer would be free too?

There is some confusion about that.

EDIT never mind saw your previous reply.
 
#37
During developement, yes. I do not work for Microsoft, so I do not know if they are doing it on a case-by-case sceneraio or whatever, As soon as you begin to earn money with your game and you still want to use Azure, obviously you need to pay for the service. I think that's just fair. The prices are well balanced. The best thing about Azure is scalability and power. And especially in gaming this is what you need.

I can not comment on our game just yet, I am sorry guys! 2015.


Huh, that's completely different than what I had understood over the past year, but it does explain the slow adoption.

I don't think it's obvious; the general understanding up to this point was that it was absolutely free, I think.
Thanks a ton for the info!
 
#38
During developement, yes. I do not work for Microsoft, so I do not know if they are doing it on a case-by-case sceneraio or whatever, As soon as you begin to earn money and you still want to use Azure, obviously you need to pay for the service. I think that's just fair. The prices are well balanced. The best thing about Azure is scalability and power. And especially in gaming this is what you need.

I can not comment on our game just yet, I am sorry guys! 2015.
Thanks for answer!
 
#39
During developement, yes. I do not work for Microsoft, so I do not know if they are doing it on a case-by-case sceneraio or whatever, As soon as you begin to earn money with your game and you still want to use Azure, obviously you need to pay for the service. I think that's just fair. The prices are well balanced. The best thing about Azure is scalability and power. And especially in gaming this is what you need.

I can not comment on our game just yet, I am sorry guys! 2015.
Thanks for the info.

Very interested to see the real life results of a game that use cloud computing in tandem with local computing. The Nvidia demos I've seen where very promising.
 
#40
Huh, that's completely different than what I had understood over the past year, but it does explain the slow adoption.

I don't think it's obvious; the general understanding up to this point was that it was absolutely free, I think.
Thanks a ton for the info!
Where? Because here in GAF most post said it was free for development... the Major Nelson blog says it is free for the developer community use.

It is obvious MS won't host your game for free while you had only profit.

Azure is a service that MS wants to make profitable tought mass adoption... the MS cloud talk is not to sell Xbones but to sell the Azure service.

Azure is a core business for MS.
 
#41
Thanks for the info.

Very interested to see the real life results of a game that use cloud computing in tandem with local computing. The Nvidia demos I've seen where very promising.
I know GAF "in general" is very pessimistic about the cloud. And yes, somehow I can understand that - because so far, there weren't that much games that really took advantage of server calculations. To be honest, no new-gen so far really did (Titanfall touched 5% of the possibilities ...). And this is also why I try to be very careful about the words I choose.

No. You can not boost your games resolution with Azure. And no. You can not create better lighting effects with Azure. But, if you focus on it, you can still boost the overall graphical look of your game by a mile. We are currently creating a game. But in fact, we are kind of creating two-in-one. One with Azure available, and one for offline only. Everything you code, you need to code for two scenerarios. This is a ton of work. if online = dynamic grass; if offline=static grass ... To say it very simple. And so on.That's why we are currently thinking about going "online-only". But to be very open to you, we have some fear about that. Obviously. The gaming community is very careful when they hear "online-only" ... Games like Sim City simply ... Well, did it wrong.

If I could show you a screen comparison of our latest build right now - Azure on/off (no, sorry, I can't ...), you would understand what I am talking about. Wind, dynamically moving vegetations, footprints that stay for hours and even wildlife nearly without losing any local CPU power. This is just awesome in the right situations.

I know MS has some own projects in the works, too, that will go all-in with the Azure servers. Crackdown is the already known example.

That's all I can say for now. Really. I'm out here! :)
 
#42
I assume having your own servers offers greater control and flexibility than using someone elses, maybe in even providing notifications and other offers.
 
#43
I know GAF "in general" is very pessimistic about the cloud. And yes, somehow I can understand that - because so far, there weren't that much games that really took advantage of server calculations. To be honest, no new-gen so far really did (Titanfall touched 5% of the possibilities ...). And this is also why I try to be very careful about the words I choose.

No. You can not boost your games resolution with Azure. And no. You can not create better lighting effects with Azure. But, if you focus on it, you can still boost the overall graphical look of your game by a mile. We are currently creating a game. But in fact, we are kind of creating two-in-one. One with Azure available, and one for offline only. Everything you code, you need to code for two scenerarios. This is a ton of work. if online = dynamic grass; if offline=static grass ... To say it very simple. And so on.That's why we are currently thinking about going "online-only". But to be very open to you, we have some fear about that. Obviously. The gaming community is very careful when they hear "online-only" ... Games like Sim City simply ... Well, did it wrong.

If I could show you a screen comparison of our latest build right now - Azure on/off (no, sorry, I can't ...), you would understand what I am talking about. Wind, dynamically moving vegetations, footprints that stay for hours and even wildlife nearly without losing any local CPU power. This is just awesome in the right situations.

I know MS has some own projects in the works, too, that will go all-in with the Azure servers. Crackdown is the already known example.

That's all I can say for now. Really. I'm out here! :)
Cool.

And I hope you stay hibrid offline/online :D I live in place that 100% internet is always trouble.
 
#44
If you don't get hooked on 3rd party mp that leaves you more time to play 1st party mp and buy 1st party dlc.
I'm just a conspiracy whore soooo....
 
#45
MS offer dedicated server but they need to pay for it.


The whole / could API is there to be rented and use... it is not cheap.


They offer free dev use of Azure... they need to pay to use them for consumer games... so mostly didn't use because it is expensive.
I was under the impression that azure was offered to all and at discounted prices, so perhaps not cheap but not expensive. Where did you hear that it was expensive - as you sounded pretty sure of it?
 
#46
I'm pretty sure it's not.

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#47
I was under the impression that azure was offered to all and at discounted prices, so perhaps not cheap but not expensive. Where did you hear that it was expensive - as you sounded pretty sure of it?
Cloud servers are not cheaper... here where I work it is really expensive and I know the price of the competition. And you are right... MS can give discounts to publishers/developers but in the case I don't have any ideia how it works.

What make the Cloud option cheaper is not it rent price but the fact you have scalability... so if you have more use in a determined period you can rent extra servers and if you have less use you can stop to rent some servers.

That scalability makes it ways cheaper than a dedicated server scenario where you will have always the machines there to use even if you don't need them... if you need more dedicated servers you will need to support and maintain them for a long time... it is not like Cloud where you can turn on/of the servers each month for example.

It is cheaper then dedicated servers but don't think the Cloud server is cheaper.

Any hosting service is expensive... Cloud too... that why most publishers/developers choose P2P for online games... even if you use some servers to matchmaking you won't expend the amount of money you need to make most your game run on server.
 
#48
I know GAF "in general" is very pessimistic about the cloud. And yes, somehow I can understand that - because so far, there weren't that much games that really took advantage of server calculations. To be honest, no new-gen so far really did (Titanfall touched 5% of the possibilities ...). And this is also why I try to be very careful about the words I choose.

No. You can not boost your games resolution with Azure. And no. You can not create better lighting effects with Azure. But, if you focus on it, you can still boost the overall graphical look of your game by a mile. We are currently creating a game. But in fact, we are kind of creating two-in-one. One with Azure available, and one for offline only. Everything you code, you need to code for two scenerarios. This is a ton of work. if online = dynamic grass; if offline=static grass ... To say it very simple. And so on.That's why we are currently thinking about going "online-only". But to be very open to you, we have some fear about that. Obviously. The gaming community is very careful when they hear "online-only" ... Games like Sim City simply ... Well, did it wrong.

If I could show you a screen comparison of our latest build right now - Azure on/off (no, sorry, I can't ...), you would understand what I am talking about. Wind, dynamically moving vegetations, footprints that stay for hours and even wildlife nearly without losing any local CPU power. This is just awesome in the right situations.

I know MS has some own projects in the works, too, that will go all-in with the Azure servers. Crackdown is the already known example.

That's all I can say for now. Really. I'm out here! :)
Thanks for writing this at all lol. We get so much speculation about this on the board, but I feel like we never get any opinions or facts from people actually trying to use it.
 
#49
I know GAF "in general" is very pessimistic about the cloud. And yes, somehow I can understand that - because so far, there weren't that much games that really took advantage of server calculations. To be honest, no new-gen so far really did (Titanfall touched 5% of the possibilities ...). And this is also why I try to be very careful about the words I choose.

No. You can not boost your games resolution with Azure. And no. You can not create better lighting effects with Azure. But, if you focus on it, you can still boost the overall graphical look of your game by a mile. We are currently creating a game. But in fact, we are kind of creating two-in-one. One with Azure available, and one for offline only. Everything you code, you need to code for two scenerarios. This is a ton of work. if online = dynamic grass; if offline=static grass ... To say it very simple. And so on.That's why we are currently thinking about going "online-only". But to be very open to you, we have some fear about that. Obviously. The gaming community is very careful when they hear "online-only" ... Games like Sim City simply ... Well, did it wrong.

If I could show you a screen comparison of our latest build right now - Azure on/off (no, sorry, I can't ...), you would understand what I am talking about. Wind, dynamically moving vegetations, footprints that stay for hours and even wildlife nearly without losing any local CPU power. This is just awesome in the right situations.

I know MS has some own projects in the works, too, that will go all-in with the Azure servers. Crackdown is the already known example.

That's all I can say for now. Really. I'm out here! :)
Can you tell which developer you work for (or at least the country)? If Titanfall used 5 %, how much are you going for?