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Why is Nintendo incapable of emulating their own games properly?
- Thread starter Gonzo The Great
- Start date
white balance on off screen shots make this useless. you need screen captures.
Gonzo The Great
Banned
They were taken at the exact same angle with the exact same settings. But naw, this is just a conspiracy to make Nintendo look bad. Surely the Bowser screenshot I posted earlier is a good example.
mntorankusu
Member
From what I can tell (I played through both of them recently enough), the Wii U version is either the same or worse.
as i said in a past thread, Nintendo is doing the cheapest port job possible since they know these will sell bad due to the very low install base and people are already soured on VC.
though it must take some ungodly effort to make things look worse than on their last gen console. i guess the person who did QC on the Wii VC releases was fired/changed when they transitioned to this gen.
though it must take some ungodly effort to make things look worse than on their last gen console. i guess the person who did QC on the Wii VC releases was fired/changed when they transitioned to this gen.
Wii U version has the same dark problem. I don't understand why either.
Wii version wasn't that dark but they did mess with the color balance too. https://youtu.be/auOjgjWSrL4?t=3m19s
EDIT: or maybe it was pretty dark?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kGyhlf9XXlUApparently the Super Metroid on the EU eshop is the inferior pal version as well, and apparently it stutters
Nintendo not nailing the virtual console, in terms of it working properly, and all their games being up, is one of the biggest missed opportunity in the history of gaming
A fully stocked (NES to Wii) and perfectly working virtual console would probably have shifted a few million extra Wii U systems
Nintendo not nailing the virtual console, in terms of it working properly, and all their games being up, is one of the biggest missed opportunity in the history of gaming
A fully stocked (NES to Wii) and perfectly working virtual console would probably have shifted a few million extra Wii U systems
still not really sound man. lighting controls color. screen caps would really show the difference yah yah.
NamikazeBurst
Member
So why don't you look at Miiverse screenshots? It is quite clear how much darker the game is, and that it looks bad.
OrbitalBeard
Member
Nintendo, what the hell are you doing...
This is honestly completely unacceptable. We waited 2.5 years for THIS?
I'm glad I haven't purchased any N64 Wii U VC titles yet and now I don't think I'm going to. What a slap in the face to Wii U owners and those of us who actually care about this company's history. I'll just continue to purchase N64 VC games on the Wii Shop Channel. I don't understand how Nintendo got it so right 8 and a half years ago, yet so incredibly wrong on Wii U. It's a complete joke.
This is honestly completely unacceptable. We waited 2.5 years for THIS?
I'm glad I haven't purchased any N64 Wii U VC titles yet and now I don't think I'm going to. What a slap in the face to Wii U owners and those of us who actually care about this company's history. I'll just continue to purchase N64 VC games on the Wii Shop Channel. I don't understand how Nintendo got it so right 8 and a half years ago, yet so incredibly wrong on Wii U. It's a complete joke.
It's pretty obviously intentional so it's dumb to say they don't know how to emulate their games. It's shitty, though, and I don't know why they do it. They've been doing it since the Wii with NES games.
Weird. That's definitely not true for the VC version though.
Weird. That's definitely not true for the VC version though.
Gonzo The Great
Banned
Worse.
In fact, here's a little test I just conducted. In conclusion, only SNES games are worth buying if you want proper emulation.
Mario Kart DS (DS)
Mario & Luigi: Superstar Saga (GBA)
Super Mario 64 (N64)
Donkey Kong Country (SNES)
Yoshi (NES)
Calamari41
41 > 38
This bugs the hell out of me, too. Made me just take my Wii out of mothballs and throw in Thousand-Year Door instead.
NES was dark on the Wii as well. Legend of Zelda on Wii is much darker than the original NES version.
MrSaturn99
Member
Even then that's a bit of a gamble. Last I checked, Kirby Super Star is insanely dark. With how colorful Kirby games are, it's insanely distracting.
As far as I have played it, no, it doesn't. Action commands happen right when they're supposed to, jumps come out immediately, etc. PM64's emulation (dark colors aside) is the best out of the three Wii U N64 VC titles. PM64 also actually lags less (not input lag, framerate stuff) than Wii VC according to what I read from speedrunners.
Kind of goes like this: PM64 > DK64 > SM64.
I doubt they'll update these games to fix them, if they even can update them.
Judging by this, it all sounds intentional.
n0razi
Member
its OK nintendo apologists are used to defending everything these days
Here's a pair of screenshots I took using Miiverse a few days ago.
Amiibo Tap:
NES Remix II:
Edit: For the sake of comparison, added Wii VC and 3DS (Ultimate NES Remix) screenshots. The 3DS Remix stage is the only one out of the four with a slightly different (Edit 2: proper?) aspect ratio (the ball on the ceiling is closer to an actual circle) and the colors were more saturated.
Wii U VC:
3DS (Ultimate NES Remix):
Amiibo Tap:
NES Remix II:
Edit: For the sake of comparison, added Wii VC and 3DS (Ultimate NES Remix) screenshots. The 3DS Remix stage is the only one out of the four with a slightly different (Edit 2: proper?) aspect ratio (the ball on the ceiling is closer to an actual circle) and the colors were more saturated.
Wii U VC:
3DS (Ultimate NES Remix):
The worst is the PAL VC. Did they ever fix Super Mario Bros running way too fast while looking like dark washed out shit? I know Mario Bros 3 ran at the correct speed (though still a 50hz ugly washed out dark piece of shit)
The only worthwhile games on the Euro VC was stuff that was 60hz by default and the DKC trilogy, since Rare developed them they weren't all too fucked up in PAL 50.
The only worthwhile games on the Euro VC was stuff that was 60hz by default and the DKC trilogy, since Rare developed them they weren't all too fucked up in PAL 50.
MrSaturn99
Member
What's even weirder is that the NES VC games on 3DS look absolutely perfect, without a hint of dark lighting or anything. It's so bizarre.
I don't get the differences either. Maybe it's the idea of being able to quickly change the brightness of the 3DS and a TV being more set in the color and brightness options. I really have no clue why they're so different.
balladofwindfishes
Member
I imagine this was to prevent seizures.
Not sure why the other consoles are darker, although the GBA might be darker to compensate for early GBA games generally being washed out due to the GBA having a terrible screen (until the SP came out). I actually didn't even notice M&L being darker when I played it on the Wii U until this thread pointed it out.
yeah man, a slightly darker game is going to ruin the lives of many Nintendo fans
Metaternal
Member
Here's a pair of screenshots I took using Miiverse a few days ago.
Amiibo Tap:
NES Remix II:
Ok that's just ridiculous. I don't even really care about this and I think that's crazy. What's the point?
Gonzo The Great
Banned
Thankfully Kirby Super Star is an exception, not the rule. Generally SNES games look perfect, or about as close to perfect as you're going to get. But that Metroid screenshot jedivulcan posted is a prime example of what I'm talking about.
I know Gonzo is going uphill here, as he has a reputation for making a thread out of whatever remotely negative Nintendo-related thought goes through his head (and there are lots of remotely negative Nintendo-related thoughts going through his head), but he's right on this one -- the gamma correction on NES, N64, GBA and DS games sucks on the Wii U Virtual Console. Somehow the SNES escapes unscathed.
And it is baffling. I mean, for me, it's not a deal-breaker; I admit that it takes very little time to adjust to and doesn't ultimately affect much. But, man, it's really indicative of the overall disjointed nature of the current Virtual Console. You've got these great aspects (off-TV play, original manuals, a selection of GBA filters, much-improved save states compared to the Wii, fully customizable controls, and fantastic emulation minus the gamma issue), but it's all so muddy. I mean, you've got handheld GBA and DS games exclusive to the console, but handheld Game Boy games exclusive to the handheld. NES games on both, but they're totally separate, no cross-save or cross-buy to speak of. You can download Wii games, but they're not Virtual Console games. They're just Wii games on your Wii U. And then you've got inexplicably weird gamma on four of the five available consoles. I'm glad we have it at all, but it really is a mess.
My biggest hope for the NX platform is unity in this aspect. I want the Wii U to be the last time I paid full-price for these retro games, and I want a unified handheld-console library with emulation quality that will last. My hope is that the Wii U VC has been neglected simply because it's not likely very profitable. Nintendo has the potential to offer consumers the ability to build a wonderful digital library, and I'd love to see them make good on that potential.
And it is baffling. I mean, for me, it's not a deal-breaker; I admit that it takes very little time to adjust to and doesn't ultimately affect much. But, man, it's really indicative of the overall disjointed nature of the current Virtual Console. You've got these great aspects (off-TV play, original manuals, a selection of GBA filters, much-improved save states compared to the Wii, fully customizable controls, and fantastic emulation minus the gamma issue), but it's all so muddy. I mean, you've got handheld GBA and DS games exclusive to the console, but handheld Game Boy games exclusive to the handheld. NES games on both, but they're totally separate, no cross-save or cross-buy to speak of. You can download Wii games, but they're not Virtual Console games. They're just Wii games on your Wii U. And then you've got inexplicably weird gamma on four of the five available consoles. I'm glad we have it at all, but it really is a mess.
My biggest hope for the NX platform is unity in this aspect. I want the Wii U to be the last time I paid full-price for these retro games, and I want a unified handheld-console library with emulation quality that will last. My hope is that the Wii U VC has been neglected simply because it's not likely very profitable. Nintendo has the potential to offer consumers the ability to build a wonderful digital library, and I'd love to see them make good on that potential.
Graphics Horse
Member
wow that was a quick ban
I hope Nintendo will be forced into a response about what is going on here.
I hope Nintendo will be forced into a response about what is going on here.
OrbitalBeard
Member
Some of us actually want to see these games preserved properly. That may not be important to you but it is to a lot of us.
they can be updated. even some Wii VC games were updated at some point to fix stuff (SF64 certainly was updated once and the old version wouldn't work until you downloaded it again)
Mr. Nice_Guy
Member
Glad I held off buying my upgrade, this looks terrible. I don't understand why the SNES emulation works perfectly but nothing else does. I replayed DKC2 entirely on the gamepad and it looked and controlled fine.
It's kinda interesting as different efforts have yielded different results. My guess is there is some sort of color calibration/color space difference and they need a brightening filter to offset it. Reminds me of when the same game ran on PS2 and Xbox, the Xbox was always more washed out due to the way it displayed colors.
NormalFish
Banned
Can't speak to the rest, but many GBA games had deliberately dim pallets to help make up for the lighting method present in the hardware. I'd imagine your screen is pretty accurate to the original.
if you want to "preserve" these games "properly" why the hell are you playing via emulators?
Here's a pair of screenshots I took using Miiverse a few days ago.
Amiibo Tap:
NES Remix II:
Great illustration of the issue. It's very much an issue that makes you step back and say, "Why, Nintendo? Why?"
Another bullet-point in the long list of VC disappointments. I've noticed it heavily on NES games, and it's more than enough to be seriously distracting or just disappointing.
To see it applying to other consoles is equally disappointing. Not only that, but part of the excuse we get when asked why they don't release games more quickly is 'Each one gets it's own emu wrapper for maximum fidelity!' Maximum fidelity my asshole.
To see it applying to other consoles is equally disappointing. Not only that, but part of the excuse we get when asked why they don't release games more quickly is 'Each one gets it's own emu wrapper for maximum fidelity!' Maximum fidelity my asshole.
Gonzo The Great
Banned
It is, so it doesn't bother me as much the others do. But at the same time, what's the point? Why would they deliberately make the games look worse just to simulate the original GBA screen when the SP, Micro, and Game Boy Player existed?. The N64 emulation bothers me a lot more, since games like Super Mario 64 looked better on the Wii. There is no excuse for that, especially since they charge customers a $2 fee to "upgrade".
NormalFish
Banned
Emulation is emulating hardware in software. Quality emulation means the game runs as similarly to the original as possible. That's what this whole thread is about right? So then why are you now complaining about the GBA emulator being accurate? I agree the color spectrum isn't as pleasing to the eye, but that's a totally separate issue.
SerTapTap
Member
Hate this issue, if I'm playing on my monitor I turn it to "vibrate" (ie oversaturated) and it looks surprisingly close, but it's a definite flaw. Combined with the apparent input lag on N64 Wii U games (I don't own any but have heard of the issues) and ugly NES issues I wonder what their deal is here. SNES and GBA games feel too dark too, Kirby Super Star is definitely way too dark.
I try to only use the Wii U VC for GBA games now, anything I had on Wii I'm not paying money to upgrade with all these problems. How is the 3DS NES emulator? I only have a GBA game and a 3DS classic, neither of which are really easy to compare to the real thing.
I try to only use the Wii U VC for GBA games now, anything I had on Wii I'm not paying money to upgrade with all these problems. How is the 3DS NES emulator? I only have a GBA game and a 3DS classic, neither of which are really easy to compare to the real thing.
OrbitalBeard
Member
I personally think NES games look amazing on 3DS. Much, much better than they do on Wii and Wii U.
Gonzo The Great
Banned
The emulation isn't accurate. They've intentionally made the games darker to simulate the effect of playing them on an original GBA that didn't have a backlit screen. Games like Donkey Kong Country had brighter color palettes to compensate.
Well, that's the excuse I've heard, at least. Considering that N64 games have also been butchered, that may not be the case after all.
NamikazeBurst
Member
I need someone to confirm something. I noticed this while playing. It looks like the picture of a save state is brighter than the actual game. Can anyone else test this? I am using Paper Mario.
Gonzo The Great
Banned
I can confirm that this is true. When you enter the Virtual Console menu, the mini screenshot you see in the top left corner is what the game SHOULD look like. The title screens (on the Wii U OS) are also brighter than they are in-game.
NormalFish
Banned
Well it appears this game has a fine pallet so the issue I mentioned isn't present anyway. But I cannot fathom that the reason you cited is the real reason. This seems more like a systematic issue than a design choice.
cloudstrife
Member
If I could tell Iwata one thing, I'd tell him that.