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Why is Pelosi continuing to hold onto the articles of impeachment?

DunDunDunpachi

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definitely. the democrats who said "impeach him" literally the day he was elected and the manner in which some of the actions dems took during the impeachment process were questionable. i definitely think the democrats hate trump so much they are digging for anything to get him impeached. we know that pelosi was highly against impeachment until the ukraine memo came out. i watched the impeachment hearings and i thought both republicans and democrats made some valid points. I would like a fair and proper trial in the senate. with the proper testimony they're requesting, if it acquits trump, then the dems are done and it's going to make them look very bad in the 2020 election. if it implicates trump, then he should be charged for any potential crimes he committed. i think any time you go into a trial where the jury effectively made a predetermination is a gross injustice, and I really hope everyone else thinks the same thing as well.
Democrats play a funny game: they attempt to ramrod some controversy through (Stormy Daniels, Kavanaugh, tax returns, Russiagate, and now Ukraine, though I'm forgetting dozens of others) and then -- counting on the goldfish memories of their constituents -- they shriek and clutch pearls when Republicans naturally resist their ploy, claiming the Republicans are standing in the way of process and are hiding something and so forth. They've now gone so far as to claiming Trump "Obstructed Congress" which is ignorant to how separation of powers in the USA actually works.

This hat-trick can only be successful with people who are unaware (or willfully ignoring) how the Democrats pushed the issue in the first place. It requires one to give all the benefit of the doubt to the folks who stirred up the controversy while giving no benefit of the doubt to the people defending themselves against it. I guess I shouldn't expect much out of the ideology that preaches "accusations are evidence" and believes in the purity of mob rule. The plain facts of the situation make it obvious this is going on and I'm not going to waste any emotion or concern over Unfounded Democrat TDS Hysteria #3,975 unless there's a preponderance of evidence backing up their claims.

Democrats conducted the impeachment process behind closed doors with stacked rules and delayed bringing things to light. Doesn't this reflect badly on them for the same reasons stated? Democrats broke their own rules and denied the minority Republicans from fully participating in the impeachment process. Doesn't this reflect badly on them for the same reasons stated?

Benefit of the doubt is a limited resource and Democrats continue to fray theirs. McConnell could piss on the articles of impeachment and set them on fire on national TV and it wouldn't have any bearing on the validity of the House's impeachment, which is the foundation of my concern. Democrats will scream that it isn't a fair trial no matter what concessions are made.
 

accel

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i watched the impeachment hearings and i thought both republicans and democrats made some valid points.
Just for the record, I also watched the impeachment hearings and from my point of view, the democrats have no case whatsoever and the fair trial regarding what they mustered consists of a brief hearing with a quick verdict of "there's nothing here, dismissed".
 
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She wants to avoid the same kind of unfair trial she gave the Republicans in the house when she had the majority. No surprise they are now claiming some emails popped up that prove Trump is guilty and that they need to call all of the witnesses they want even when they refused to allow the House Republicans to do the same.

Basically she ran a partisan show trial in the House and is now to trying to make moves to prevent the same kind of trial in the Senate. She thinks she will get away with it since she had media outlets in her pocket who refuse to report the types of restrictions the Democrats placed on their trial while focusing on Republican partisan bias in the Senate. Anyone with a brain could see both trials are/would be extremely partisan and that the Dems should play by the same rules they placed on the Rs.
 

Woo-Fu

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There's no reason to submit them when there is no chance of anything other than acquittal from the Senate.
 

TheContact

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Just for the record, I also watched the impeachment hearings and from my point of view, the democrats have no case whatsoever and the fair trial regarding what they mustered consists of a brief hearing with a quick verdict of "there's nothing here, dismissed".
trump is refusing witnesses in the trial. if he wanted it over with, he would comply with allowing the witnesses to testify. otherwise, it's suspicious that he's blocking the testimonies, again, given that trump just wants this over with.
 

TheContact

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Democrats play a funny game: they attempt to ramrod some controversy through (Stormy Daniels, Kavanaugh, tax returns, Russiagate, and now Ukraine, though I'm forgetting dozens of others) and then -- counting on the goldfish memories of their constituents -- they shriek and clutch pearls when Republicans naturally resist their ploy, claiming the Republicans are standing in the way of process and are hiding something and so forth. They've now gone so far as to claiming Trump "Obstructed Congress" which is ignorant to how separation of powers in the USA actually works.

This hat-trick can only be successful with people who are unaware (or willfully ignoring) how the Democrats pushed the issue in the first place. It requires one to give all the benefit of the doubt to the folks who stirred up the controversy while giving no benefit of the doubt to the people defending themselves against it. I guess I shouldn't expect much out of the ideology that preaches "accusations are evidence" and believes in the purity of mob rule. The plain facts of the situation make it obvious this is going on and I'm not going to waste any emotion or concern over Unfounded Democrat TDS Hysteria #3,975 unless there's a preponderance of evidence backing up their claims.

Democrats conducted the impeachment process behind closed doors with stacked rules and delayed bringing things to light. Doesn't this reflect badly on them for the same reasons stated? Democrats broke their own rules and denied the minority Republicans from fully participating in the impeachment process. Doesn't this reflect badly on them for the same reasons stated?

Benefit of the doubt is a limited resource and Democrats continue to fray theirs. McConnell could piss on the articles of impeachment and set them on fire on national TV and it wouldn't have any bearing on the validity of the House's impeachment, which is the foundation of my concern. Democrats will scream that it isn't a fair trial no matter what concessions are made.
that's fine if that's how you view it. there were shady practices by the dems during the process. however, there was enough that wasn't which i think the public should hear the truth on, but the WH is blocking that truth from coming out. just because the process of impeachment was done shadily doesn't mean that the whole thing is a sham and the whole thing should be tossed out. there were some relevant pieces of information and testimonies that should have this go forward legitimately to the senate and not just be tossed out with prejudice.
 

DunDunDunpachi

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that's fine if that's how you view it. there were shady practices by the dems during the process. however, there was enough that wasn't which i think the public should hear the truth on, but the WH is blocking that truth from coming out.
Executive privilege is a real thing. You may as well whine that the other football team won because they ran out the clock or that the other basketball team won because they got fouled and made their two foul shots. As I said, you are giving all the benefit of the doubt to the accusers (which you've admitted used shady practices) and none to the defendant.

It is on the accusers to demonstrate why Trump is guilty. He is not obligated to play along, much less to play along with a partisan House that has played these games before. This was the fourth impeachment attempt.

just because the process of impeachment was done shadily doesn't mean that the whole thing is a sham and the whole thing should be tossed out.
Sure, it doesn't mean that out of hand.

Just because Democrats claim Trump made some calls doesn't mean he did anything wrong.

It goes both ways. The problem is that you are acknowledging the Democrats' lack of credibility yet still extending them the benefit of the doubt that their accusation should be taken seriously.

there were some relevant pieces of information and testimonies that should have this go forward legitimately to the senate and not just be tossed out with prejudice.
Relevant according to whom, the same partisan team that presented those pieces of evidence? Sorry, but Americans have tolerated this petulant game of "if there's nothing to hide, why aren't they proving their own innocence?" since Russiagate.

If I am supposed to take you seriously, please explain why you keep giving the accusers -- the same who pushed previous sham impeachments and who pushed Russiagate -- the benefit of the doubt while putting the behavior of the accused under the microscope.
 

FreedomGate

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trump is refusing witnesses in the trial. if he wanted it over with, he would comply with allowing the witnesses to testify. otherwise, it's suspicious that he's blocking the testimonies, again, given that trump just wants this over with.
Trump isn't refusing anything, Trump is the one that actually wants a trial. I notice you like shifting peoples words to push a narrative.

The senate has not decided on witnesses yet but if Pelosi keeps holding the articles it gives them less of a reason to consider them.
 
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accel

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trump is refusing witnesses in the trial. if he wanted it over with, he would comply with allowing the witnesses to testify. otherwise, it's suspicious that he's blocking the testimonies, again, given that trump just wants this over with.
Everybody - yes, including Trump, I know you probably think he is dumb as a rock, so I am going to include him specifically - realizes that there is NO getting it over with. The moment one idiotic charge is stopped or loses steam on its own, a different idiotic charge is brought up. If I were Trump - and, to clarify, I do not know whether he does this intentionally or not, but I wouldn't be surprised if he does - so, if I were Trump, I would have specifically *paused* this fight on the episode that makes his opponents look especially toothless. This parody of an impeachment is not a bad candidate.
 
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cryptoadam

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This is just classic Dumbocrats. This is Lucy moving the football as Charlie Pelosi is about to kick it.

Pelosi knew this day was going to come as long as she can count. Senate has majority R's, House is majority D's.

Impeachment was going to pass and then the Senate was going to do what the Republicans wanted. Unless she literally can't count there is no way she didn't know that once it passed it was going to die.

And why should R's care? Dems say that Trump should be impeached because he wanted Biden investigated for potential abuse of power. Well if your a R you want that shit investigated. Thats not something you impeach the leader of your party over.

Dems and Pelosi need to stop shitting on the constitution and abusing their power for political benefit in a quid pro quo and give the articles to the Senate. This is just a blatant power grab.
 
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NickFire

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definitely. the democrats who said "impeach him" literally the day he was elected and the manner in which some of the actions dems took during the impeachment process were questionable. i definitely think the democrats hate trump so much they are digging for anything to get him impeached. we know that pelosi was highly against impeachment until the ukraine memo came out. i watched the impeachment hearings and i thought both republicans and democrats made some valid points. I would like a fair and proper trial in the senate. with the proper testimony they're requesting, if it acquits trump, then the dems are done and it's going to make them look very bad in the 2020 election. if it implicates trump, then he should be charged for any potential crimes he committed. i think any time you go into a trial where the jury effectively made a predetermination is a gross injustice, and I really hope everyone else thinks the same thing as well.
I really hope you don't mean that bolded part, because if you do then you don't care much for the constitution or the US justice system at all. In the US justice system every single criminal defendant is presumed to be innocent by the judge / jury unless the prosecutor proves otherwise. And if the prosecution drops the ball when obtaining a complaint / indictment, then even a basic charging decision can be overturned by the judge when they dismiss the case before trial even begins.
 

appaws

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Yes, I mean that. The duly elected head of the government that you are referring to was treating the country like goods for sale and was basically trading it to the highest bidder. Normally, BS like this is taken care of via political processes and popular vote. But in Ukraine the political processes were corrupt for years, they didn't function. That's why the government was overthrown. Because people didn't see what the hell else to do. (I'll remind that at the root of the rebellion was whether Ukraine would go into a trade association with EU or with Russia, the duly elected head of the government had to go EU because that's what was planned for a long time and with a lot of blood, but he traded that deal to Russia and started moving towards the association with Russia instead - for his personal gain.)

As I say, the revolution didn't turn out well, but that happened for other reasons, the original thrust was legit.
Yes, this is the mainstream media, rootless cosmopolitan, global elite narrative. You paid attention well to your favorite choice of approved talking head or magazine with no readers that stays afloat with gifts from "foundations."
 
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pramod

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Impeachment has always been a huge gamble for the Dems but their leftist crazy constituents forced them to take it.

Now they are stuck without a good way forward and no one has any idea what to do. Its a disaster.
 

desertdroog

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She is failing to prosecute and since this is a process that requires a trial in the Senate, the Senate can dismiss the articles if no forward movement is made. The Senate is going to vote to acquit and if Pelosi is going to actually prosecute by handing the articles of impeachment over to the Senate, she is going to hold out until the last moment.
 

accel

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Yes, this is the mainstream media, rootless cosmopolitan, global elite narrative. You paid attention well to your favorite choice of approved talking head or magazine with no readers that stays afloat with gifts from "foundations."
I am afraid this isn't coming from the mainstream media at all (in fact, the mainstream media pushes a picture that is noticeably different in several places) and rather from my own experiences starting from livestreams and chats with ordinary Ukrainian and Russian folk at the center of events as they were unfolding during the Maidan, to then paying close vested attention to what is going on, following all information sources available regardless of their agenda.

But we are straying off topic, so let's end it here and instead talk in other threads that would be about Ukraine.
 
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cryptoadam

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"The leader has the votes to make it clear that the Clinton impeachment rules would be adopted by the Senate," Rounds said.

That would limit a resolution at the outset of the trial to the rules of the proceeding and delay a decision on witnesses until after the start of the trial.


Pelosi doesn't want the Senate to follow the rules that she and Nadler and Schumer and Schiff argued for back during Clintons time. No surprise. Can't really knock them since its all political and everyone is falling in political lines. But at the end of the day Nancy you have no power and if it was fair for Clinton its fair for Trump.

The fact that its Jan 7th and the articles still haven't been presented to the Senate shows how much of a sham and disgrace the process was. If the case wasn't strong and you need more witness's and trials then why did almost every Dem vote for impeachment?
 
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cryptoadam

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Did CNN not get their check this week from the DNC ?

Of course it backfired. This is like a 90 lb weakling going up to Brock Lesnar and picking a fight with him. What do you think is going to happen LOL.

At this point its a matter of pride because if Nancy sends the articles she will have been defeated in an embarrassing manner. She knows she fucked up and the only end result would be Trumps acquital.
 

FreedomGate

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We have had like 5 Senators say that if she doesn't give to to them by the end of this week it's over starting Sunday. Democrats can't even complain since they wouldn't be able to defend why Pelosi delayed them so long in the first place, so I suspect that only the AOC faction of the party would go mad and riot if Mitch moves forward.
 
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cryptoadam

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We have had like 5 Senators say that if she doesn't give to to them by the end of this week it's over starting Sunday. Democrats can't even complain since they wouldn't be able to defend why Pelosi delayed them so long in the first place, so I suspect that only the AOC faction of the party would go mad and riot if Mitch moves forward.
I hope they do. It would be amazing to see them vote on the articles and end this charade without Pelosi even sending them over.

This is turning into a Nobody Important Jussi thread level backfire.
 

JORMBO

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It looks like she is digging in further and will continue to not send them. Updated today.

 
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DunDunDunpachi

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It looks like she is digging in further and will continue to not send them. Updated today.

Article I, Section 3:

The Senate shall have the sole Power to try all Impeachments.

She has no leverage. Senate can set whatever rules they want and if she still wants to hold things back, that's on the House.
 
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Joe T.

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“The longer it goes on the less urgent it becomes,” said Sen. Dianne Feinstein (D-Calif.). “So if it’s serious and urgent, send them over. If it isn’t, don’t send it over.”

Several other Senate Democrats also showed their impatience with the Democratic leaders’ current strategy. Sen. Joe Manchin (D-W.Va.) said Wednesday morning that Democrats “should move on” and turn the articles to the Senate and Sen. Jon Tester (D-Mont.) said he’s “ready” for the trial to start.
“I respect the fact that she is concerned about the fact about whether or not there will be a fair trial. But I do think it is time to get on with it,” said Sen. Chris Coons (D-Del.).
That might be overstating things: No one would criticize Pelosi directly and every Democratic senator interviewed on Wednesday praised her fight for a more comprehensive trial. Moreover Pelosi is also juggling the impeachment decision with how to respond to Trump's tit-for-tat with Iran.
 

cryptoadam

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She knows she lost already just trying to figure out how to save face and spin this as a win for herself.

See I held them and Mitch promised me a half eaten cup cake. See it was totally worth it look how much concessions I got!
 

matt404au

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So what’s going on with this? It seems to have completely dropped off the news cycle since Dems had their own version of “we gahhhht him”. He’s not technically impeached at the moment is he?
 

cryptoadam

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So what’s going on with this? It seems to have completely dropped off the news cycle since Dems had their own version of “we gahhhht him”. He’s not technically impeached at the moment is he?
It was all about the headline and convincing some dunces that Trump was FIRED from being president. Now they can also run ads in 2020 saying Trump was "impeached".

Now Dems are just allowing it float in the wind because they know that when it gets to the Senate it will be quashed and then the headlines will read Trump acquitted.
 

matt404au

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It was all about the headline and convincing some dunces that Trump was FIRED from being president. Now they can also run ads in 2020 saying Trump was "impeached".

Now Dems are just allowing it float in the wind because they know that when it gets to the Senate it will be quashed and then the headlines will read Trump acquitted.
That’s what I suspected.

What a bunch of pathetic, desperate children.
 

sahlberg

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Such unity within the Democratic Party, lmao.
It is urgency-fluid.
It used to be very very urgent which is why they could not afford to wait while asking the courts to force the executive branch to testify, as the normal procedure is.
But now it is not very urgent any more.

It is fluid, like a spectrum.
 
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HeresJohnny

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Pelosi has been stepping in it lately. I heard that Vice President Pence called her to inform her of Iran attacking the airbase, she had someone tell him she'd call him back. Then she got on Twitter and said she was closely monitoring the situation, but then it was found out she was at a a swanky restaurant or something. What a fucking goon.


On the impeachment thing, I think she clearly never wanted to proceed with impeachment but was forced to by the crazies in the party. She knows if she sends them they're going to be mocked and it's a dead end anyway. She's basically playing a busted straight in poker. No one wants to lay that shit down.
 
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It was all about the headline and convincing some dunces that Trump was FIRED from being president. Now they can also run ads in 2020 saying Trump was "impeached".

Now Dems are just allowing it float in the wind because they know that when it gets to the Senate it will be quashed and then the headlines will read Trump acquitted.
Even though you'd think politics is an important overarching series of laws which government officials pass to have a sound economy and society where politicians work together for the betterment of all, there is one thing that always rules over anything else:

Votes. Always cater to the lowest common denominator first.
 

oagboghi2

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mcconnell said they were ready to clear trump without giving him a proper trial. whatever you think about pelosi or the impeachment process, I can understand why pelosi is holding out until they can get a fair trial. anyone who doesn't care about giving him a proper trial is scared that something will come up in the trial that would be bad for trump. which is honestly likely the case given that he told his staff not to testify to congress and the recently unredacted emails about the ukraine funds withholding isn't a good look either
The people who held a kanagaroo court are crying about fair trials?

Get the fuck out of here 😂
 

Grinchy

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Seriously, what's the plan here? Pelosi isn't dumb enough to actually think that the Senate is going to bow to her and give into some weird demands that Pelosi has no right to demand in the first place. So what is the hold up? What does she think she's gaining from this?
 

accel

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Seriously, what's the plan here? Pelosi isn't dumb enough to actually think that the Senate is going to bow to her and give into some weird demands that Pelosi has no right to demand in the first place. So what is the hold up? What does she think she's gaining from this?
There is an opinion that she does that to harm Sanders and Warren.

Eg:


"
Pelosi also wins by pushing the Senate trial’s timetable back. Had she sent the articles immediately after passage, the Senate could have started the trial after returning from the holiday break. Now, however, they won’t be able to start the trial until after the Martin Luther King Jr. Day weekend. This means the Senate will be in trial six days a week for the period before the Iowa caucuses and may well be in session through the New Hampshire primary, too. That will likely hurt the progressives’ favorites, Sens. Bernie Sanders (I-Vt.) and Elizabeth Warren (D-Mass.), as they will have to stay in Washington rather than campaign in those crucial early voting states.
"
 

desertdroog

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Yesterday was the NCF games, tonight is the debate, they are going to try and take President Donald Trump's thunder on Wednesday while he signs the China trade agreement.

They are just trying to keep eyes on this farce which is why they will vote on Wednesday.
 

cryptoadam

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There is an opinion that she does that to harm Sanders and Warren.

Eg:


"
Pelosi also wins by pushing the Senate trial’s timetable back. Had she sent the articles immediately after passage, the Senate could have started the trial after returning from the holiday break. Now, however, they won’t be able to start the trial until after the Martin Luther King Jr. Day weekend. This means the Senate will be in trial six days a week for the period before the Iowa caucuses and may well be in session through the New Hampshire primary, too. That will likely hurt the progressives’ favorites, Sens. Bernie Sanders (I-Vt.) and Elizabeth Warren (D-Mass.), as they will have to stay in Washington rather than campaign in those crucial early voting states.
"
Sen. McCarthy said the same thing. To hurt Bernie who is leading in Iowa over Biden.

DNC already screwed over Bernie in 2016. And its clear they are behind Biden by just how offended they got with this whole Trump Ukraine call.

You can't put it past the DNC to do everything it can to get their golden boy elected, they did the same shit with Hillary.
 
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DeepEnigma

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Sen. McCarthy said the same thing. To hurt Bernie who is leading in Iowa over Biden.

DNC already screwed over Bernie in 2016. And its clear they are behind Biden by just how offended they got with this whole Trump Ukraine call.

You can't put it past the DNC to do everything it can to get their golden boy elected, they did the same shit with Hillary.
Sounds like election tampering.

This is why they project "Russia" as a smoke screen for their own nefarious deeds.
 
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