Why on Earth did Respawn think no custom Titan loadouts was a good idea?

Gai Murakumo

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I have not really missed the full customization for a Titan's loadout. I prefer this class system because like others have said it makes it so you change tactics based on which Titan you are currently facing up against and adapt appropriately. Those who want full customization on their Titans really want to make silly loadouts like giving Ronin a chaingun. On a side note at least going by the campaign we will more than likely see two more Titans at least released at some point one with the Quad Rocket and one with the XO-16 Chaingun that was in the first game.
 

Jito

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On paper yes they are more vulnerable but if you're constantly moving and picking your fights it sure doesn't feel that way.



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Yeh totally, you can tell who's not bothered to adapt to the new lack of shields and just wades into Titan fights only to get blown up. Even in the first game though, it was mostly all about quick long range engagements then dropping out of combat to regenerate your shields.
 

Chris1

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What's the argument for the TF2 maps being worse?
Because they changed the design to be 3 lane (CoD style) maps and most of them feel designed around pilot v pilot only and don't take into consideration the movement, titans or even pilot v titan combat and due to the layout of some of them it helps promote camping which was never an issue in 1.

The best map in Titanfall 2 (Eden) is probably still worse than the worst map in Titanfall 1.
 

excaliburps

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So, instead of listening to people who played the game and have an idea of why it didn't keep players as long as it should have, they just completely changed it to appeal to a different type of fan and essentially start fresh again? Doesn't make much sense to me.

Also the playerbase dropping very fast is exaggerated and is mostly speaking about PC.

25th october 2014, 12 EST/5am GMT (Way off-peak) there was 8k people on Titanfall 1 on XB1. This was over 7 months into its life cycle. Post Destiny, and before any major sales, DLC going free or EA Access (lowest it had been was $25) Source. At this exact time, CoD Ghosts had 14K people online on XB1.

Last night there was 21K on at peak times (11-12 GMT) for Titanfall 2, on peak vs off peak so it's not really a fair comparison but considering it's so close even giving Titanfall 2 the advantage of time, I'm pretty sure Titanfall 1 is going to have longer longevity than Titanfall 2. A big part of this is down to lower sales but regardless I think it speaks volumes.

And we'll just have to agree to disagree. Considering most reviews focus on the campaign rather than the multiplayer, I think it would have gotten the same - if not better reviews.
Did they COMPLETELY change it? There's Titans, parkour, fast-paced gunplay, etc. That's a bit of a stretch to say they completely changed it. Second bold part is once again, conjecture and guesswork. You forgot to factor in how different diverse the games lineup of each platform is now compared to a few years ago. Microsoft's marketing budget also helped a ton in making sure it's seen. This year, while MS had both BF1 and TF2 as exclusive marketing mentions, they focused on BF1, which greatly reduced TF2's footprint in terms of ads.

As for the reviews, not sure which ones you were reading, but a lot of them (including ours) focused on SP and the MP. I mean, a lot of sites gave it a score of 8 or higher based on both the SP and MP. Surely it has merit, right? Unless you think every site's review is garbage at MP or didn't play it enough.

It's definitely OK wanting TF2's MP to be like the first, but blanketing it with how everyone wants it that way or pointing to it as the factor on why its sales are (potentially) bad, is not 100 percent accurate. The TF2 OT here on GAF is as better an evidence of users (and on Reddit as well) that those who have it and playing it, like the game's MP. Kinda moot, since whatever shouting people do, it won't change TF2. Maybe Respawn will change or balance TF3 to something both sides will like? One can hope but they can't please everyone.

Multitude of factors is right. I dunno about "mathematically impossible", though. I don't think it's nearly as cut and dry/case closed as that.

We're assuming all the people that bought TF1 the first time ended up being 'fans'. At the same time, we're not taking into consideration the market at the time. It was March for starters, and there were no big name shooters with long legacies and deep marketing budgets competing against it that month. On top of that, TF1's marketing was in overdrive leading up to release, whereas TF2's... I don't even remember much marketing! :D

Plus, aren't the TF2 figures everyone is handwringing over purely based on physical sales in the UK?
Yep, agree here. I'm hoping that we'll be able to get to talk to Respawn at some point soon and I'll definitely ask about the TF1 changes, what their data states, etc.
 

Sword Of Doom

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Because they changed the design to be 3 lane (CoD style) maps and most of them feel designed around pilot v pilot only and don't take into consideration the movement, titans or even pilot v titan combat and due to the layout of some of them it helps promote camping which was never an issue in 1.

The best map in Titanfall 2 (Eden) is probably still worse than the worst map in Titanfall 1.
I hated the beta because of campers but now I feel like they're sitting ducks. On most maps you have a hundred ways to get to campers. There's still campers in bounty mode which the mode encourages. I get this complaint but at its core the game still rewards movement and just being clever in general. Complex can fuck off though
 
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I like it. Hated it at first, but then I learned the map better and started really enjoying it.
Same, it's a refreshing change of pace. Is it the best map? Hell no. It isn't nearly as bad as the people who quit out of it and refuse to learn it make it out to be. Complex, on the other hand, is a little to restrictive when everyone has their titan in
 

Chris1

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Did they COMPLETELY change it? There's Titans, parkour, fast-paced gunplay, etc. That's a bit of a stretch to say they completely changed it. Second bold part is once again, conjecture and guesswork. You forgot to factor in how different diverse the games lineup of each platform is now compared to a few years ago. Microsoft's marketing budget also helped a ton in making sure it's seen. This year, while MS had both BF1 and TF2 as exclusive marketing mentions, they focused on BF1, which greatly reduced TF2's footprint in terms of ads.
I mean yeah, the way you play the game is completely different. Sure it has all those things from TF1, but they're still two completely different games which I think the biggest attribute to this is the map design and not necessarily any small changes made which I have said since the tech test. I think Angel City playing good is important if they want to win back Titanfall 1 fans and I think it will. There's a lot more to how a game plays than just "both games have guns, they must be the same". Sure Titanfall 2 has the same parkour etc but none of the maps really embrace it even half as much as Titanfall 1 maps did. To me it feels more like a gimmick in Titanfall 2, like it did in the recent CoD's but that's just me and as I said maybe Angel City will change this.
As for the reviews, not sure which ones you were reading, but a lot of them (including ours) focused on SP and the MP. I mean, a lot of sites gave it a score of 8 or higher based on both the SP and MP. Surely it has merit, right? Unless you think every site's review is garbage at MP or didn't play it enough.
I'm not saying the MP is garbage, to me it's ok, but that's only because I've accepted that it's not really Titanfall.

It's definitely OK wanting TF2's MP to be like the first, but blanketing it with how everyone wants it that way or pointing to it as the factor on why its sales are (potentially) bad, is not 100 percent accurate. The TF2 OT here on GAF is as better an evidence of users (and on Reddit as well) that those who have it and playing it, like the game's MP. Kinda moot, since whatever shouting people do, it won't change TF2. Maybe Respawn will change or balance TF3 to something both sides will like? One can hope but they can't please everyone.
I don't really agree that people who already bought the game is better evidence, since most people who hated the tech test wouldn't have bought the main game in the first place leaving only a mostly biased side of the coin.
 
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Did they COMPLETELY change it? There's Titans, parkour, fast-paced gunplay, etc. That's a bit of a stretch to say they completely changed it. Second bold part is once again, conjecture and guesswork. You forgot to factor in how different diverse the games lineup of each platform is now compared to a few years ago. Microsoft's marketing budget also helped a ton in making sure it's seen. This year, while MS had both BF1 and TF2 as exclusive marketing mentions, they focused on BF1, which greatly reduced TF2's footprint in terms of ads.

As for the reviews, not sure which ones you were reading, but a lot of them (including ours) focused on SP and the MP. I mean, a lot of sites gave it a score of 8 or higher based on both the SP and MP. Surely it has merit, right? Unless you think every site's review is garbage at MP or didn't play it enough.

It's definitely OK wanting TF2's MP to be like the first, but blanketing it with how everyone wants it that way or pointing to it as the factor on why its sales are (potentially) bad, is not 100 percent accurate. The TF2 OT here on GAF is as better an evidence of users (and on Reddit as well) that those who have it and playing it, like the game's MP. Kinda moot, since whatever shouting people do, it won't change TF2. Maybe Respawn will change or balance TF3 to something both sides will like? One can hope but they can't please everyone.



Yep, agree here. I'm hoping that we'll be able to get to talk to Respawn at some point soon and I'll definitely ask about the TF1 changes, what their data states, etc.
Anecdotal, i know, but i have persnally seen more fans of the fist game say they prefer or are indifferent to the mp changes made in tf2. Many complaining only played the tech test and some haven't even played the game. Also, Why on earth is this discussion not in the OT?
 

Karl2177

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I can understand why they made the changes that they did to the Titan loadouts, even though I prefer the first game. Having said that, I think the mode that suffered most from the preset Titans is Last Titan Standing. Whenever it pops up in the grab bag playlist, I just assume it's going to be 3-3 and go into overtime.
 

HStallion

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Which is a shame because Titanfall 2 doesn't sound all that good.
The SP is probably one of the best of its kind in a long time and personally I enjoy the MP but as I've said before, I wasn't nearly as enamored with the first game as others here were.
 

blakep267

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It's probably one of the reasons I'm going to stop playing. I don't enjoy any of the titans. I want an amalgamation of different perks etc It's just one of the many many things respawn got wrong with this game
 

Chris1

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The SP is probably one of the best of its kind in a long time and personally I enjoy the MP but as I've said before, I wasn't nearly as enamored with the first game as others here were.
And that's the thing, the SP is the closest thing to Titanfall 1. The levels embrace the movement, the Titans are honestly how they should be in MP, etc.

The SP IS Titanfall 1 through and through, the MP isn't.
 
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It's probably one of the reasons I'm going to stop playing. I don't enjoy any of the titans. I want an amalgamation of different perks etc It's just one of the many many things respawn got wrong with this game
Different strokes, i guess.. Everytime i switch titans the become my new favorite . It wouldnt hurt to add more titans down the line
 

Mupod

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I've really taken to the titan vs titan combat in this one. The battery stealing dynamic works a lot better than I thought it would, and it's my main focus in battles because it's the fastest way to get a titan of my own. Being able to instantly identify a Scorch or Legion is really important and helps me stay alive longer. If I could put Tone's shield and radar on Northstar I'd probably be stupidly overpowered anyways.

Quick visual identification of pilot weapons isn't as important because everybody just uses the same overpowered SMGs. So it makes more sense to visually split them up by abilities, the cloak guy has a very unique silhouette for example.
 

Argonomic

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I will briefly summarize how this change happened. The primary driver for this change in direction was a discovery post ship of Titanfall. The nature of mixed Pilot / Titan combat incentivizes players to choose loadouts that handle most situations well, rather than to counter player choices as you would in a healthy meta.

This lead to an abundance of xo-16s, cluster missiles, nukes, electric smokes, etc in mixed Pilot / Titan modes. Limited modes like LTS were far more healthy (although team wide stacking was a problem) , and in the extreme case of Wingman LTS the meta was really quite nice.

Over time and experimentation the new character-style Titan loadoat form developed. The inspiration was the Street Fighter games, which have long been a big influence here. The designer that took over the Titans and finished/shipped them was a prominent LOL designer so obviously that game ended up being a heavy influence as well.

Although there is certainly room for improvement, I am tentatively happy with how the new Titans are playing out. A good indicator is a much healthier debate around Titan meta in mixed modes than existed in Titanfall 1.

Thanks.
 

E92 M3

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As a vet of the first game, I am loving the second. Was also against the hero loadouts, but once giving it some time, it works wonderfully.
 
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I will briefly summarize how this change happened. The primary driver for this change in direction was a discovery post ship of Titanfall. The nature of mixed Pilot / Titan combat incentivizes players to choose loadouts that handle most situations well, rather than to counter player choices as you would in a healthy meta.

This lead to an abundance of xo-16s, cluster missiles, nukes, electric smokes, etc in mixed Pilot / Titan modes. Limited modes like LTS were far more healthy (although team wide stacking was a problem) , and in the extreme case of Wingman LTS the meta was really quite nice.

Over time and experimentation the new character-style Titan loadoat form developed. The inspiration was the Street Fighter games, which have long been a big influence here. The designer that took over the Titans and finished/shipped them was a prominent LOL designer so obviously that game ended up being a heavy influence as well.

Although there is certainly room for improvement, I am tentatively happy with how the new Titans are playing out. A good indicator is a much healthier debate around Titan meta in mixed modes than existed in Titanfall 1.

Thanks.
Thanks for the headsup. I'm a street fighter guy so maybe that's why i love the way titan battles playout
 

HStallion

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And that's the thing, the SP is the closest thing to Titanfall 1. The levels embrace the movement, the Titans are honestly how they should be in MP, etc.

The SP IS Titanfall 1 through and through, the MP isn't.
I guess in some respects it is but several elements of why I loved it weren't really a factor in TF1. Campaign spoilers
The time travel level, BT being a fun character, the decent boss battles.
 

ant_

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It's better this way. I think you're wrong, OP. Titfanfall 2 outclasses the first in every way.

Lol @ "The single player is Titanfall 1." Get out of here with that bullshit. That's absolutely ridiculous. I'm pretty sure no matter what they changed about Titanfall, you were destined to hate it. Get over it or go back to Titanfall 1. It's not the same game. It's improved.
 

Chris1

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I guess in some respects it is but several elements of why I loved it weren't really a factor in TF1. Campaign spoilers
The time travel level, BT being a fun character, the decent boss battles.
The last two are kind of strictly SP thing so of course it wouldn't be in Titanfall 1, but the first one, for me it wasn't the
flipping through different time periods
that made that level so good, it was cool, absolutely, but the thing that made me like that level so much was that while you were doing that, it was the level design suited towards both that and the movement incredibly well, I can't help but feel if the level design didn't make use of the movement it wouldn't have been as good as it was. I feel like most people would agree with me here. This is something the multiplayer is missing and IMO is the biggest problem with the MP. The maps don't make use of movement that well.
 

Syntax

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Titanfall 2 is amazing... not sure where you heard it's anything but.

The change to the Titans is welcome in my opinion: and I put in 100s of hours into TF1.
Really? You're posting that on Neogaf, in this thread, and aren't sure where he might have read unflattering things about Titanfall 2?

I've been enjoying the MP - haven't tried the SP yet or read any reviews - but there are certainly grievances I have with it, some unique to it as a sequel and some that I have in general.
 

HStallion

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The last two are kind of strictly SP thing so of course it wouldn't be in Titanfall 1, but the first one, for me it wasn't the
flipping through different time periods
that made that level so good, it was cool, absolutely, but the thing that made me like that level so much was that while you were doing that, it was the level design suited towards both that and the movement incredibly well, I can't help but feel if the level design didn't make use of the movement it wouldn't have been as good as it was. I feel like most people would agree with me here. This is something the multiplayer is missing and IMO is the biggest problem with the MP. The maps don't make use of movement that well.
That really has nothing to do with the fact that I said some of my favorite parts of the SP were not found in TF1 but I do generally agree it worked so well because it blended in with the base gameplay.
 

Screaming Meat

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I can't help it. They had an open beta that was not good and not worth spending full price on. So now all I can do is read impressions, and they are certainly not convincing me to pay up.
Really? The impressions I read were all good.

I didn't play the beta and, frankly, I wasn't even intending to touch TF2 at all because TF1 lost its lustre for me so quickly. Like, it gave up everything in under 10 hours and became really rote.


I read a few reviews and a ton of impressions that really sold TF2 to me and, having played it, I'm really impressed. I'm about halfway through TF2's campaign, around Level 20 on MP, and both are giving me that 'one more game feeling' I didn't have with the original. The moment-to-moment MP gameplay is sublime. I feel like Milhouse playing Bonestorm! XD
 

Chris1

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That really has nothing to do with the fact that I said some of my favorite parts of the SP were not found in TF1 but I do generally agree it worked so well because it blended in with the base gameplay.
That's kinda what I'm getting at, I think that's biggest issue with MP, the maps don't tend well to the base gameplay like it did in Titanfall 1 and it put people off it while the SP does and is getting unanimous praise.. If they did or they had Angel City ready at the tech test I honestly think the reception would be vastly different. Obviously there is still some things like how Titans work that people wouldn't like, but it would at least feel like Titanfall still.

From the Tech Test to even today in the full game, 90% of my complaints are aimed towards to the map design which is a mess. I'm confident that when Angel City comes out it will bring some Titanfall 1 players that hated the TT on board. Maybe Angel City 24/7 playlist, free weekend, small sale and it will change Titanfall 1 players opinion on the game. I truly believe if the free DLC maps are all traditional TF1 maps and they're still good to play on, people will come around on the game big time despite the smaller changes made (like the battery mechanic, choosing between sidearm or anti titan, etc).
 

MrNelson

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I can't help it. They had an open beta that was not good and not worth spending full price on. So now all I can do is read impressions, and they are certainly not convincing me to pay up.
Seriously, go rent it and give the full game a shot.

I was down on it after the tech test like a lot of other people. The second weekend was better, but it still wasn't enough to convince me, but I figured I would give the full game one last shot before making the decision to pick it up or not. Things like the lack of Titan customization, the removal of shields, forcing you to choose between a sidearm and anti-titan weapon, and removing grunts from some game modes put me off of it. The maps they chose to use in the test didn't help either.

I rented it and ended up falling in love with it. The remaining maps are much better than the ones from the test (with the exception of Crash Site imo), the battery system finally clicked with me, and on top of that I've learned to better pick and choose my engagements in my Titan so I can hold on to it long enough to get at least 2-3 core charges off in a life. There's even a boost that gives you a free battery so you can always have one ready to go when you drop your Titan in.
 

Sojgat

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2/9 maps I don't like. Complex i cant stand, Homestead and Crash Site have grown on me. The rest are good.
I think Complex is the only outright bad map. I can see the idea behind it but everyone just ends up in the main corridor too much. The open areas are underutilized.

lol


This is shaping up to be my MP game of the generation
Same here.

And I didn't think anything was going to top Siege for me.
 

SkylineRKR

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I like this game a lot, but its somewhat gimped here and there. The maps are objectively bad, save for a small few I think are actually good. This also makes Attrition worse, it doesn't feel as epic.

As for the Titans, its simpler but I prefer how its done in 2. They have an own identity and you can alter your approach. But the battery mechanic is flawed. Let someone steal your battery while you don't even have shield, kill him and get free shield. Its strange when you think about it.

On the other hand, you do get an excellent campaign thats really fun to play and a multiplayer thats rather fun on its own, just with very bland maps still. But DLC is free. I can recommend Titanfall 2.
 

excaliburps

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Anecdotal, i know, but i have persnally seen more fans of the fist game say they prefer or are indifferent to the mp changes made in tf2. Many complaining only played the tech test and some haven't even played the game. Also, Why on earth is this discussion not in the OT?
I also think this topic should have been in the OT. But what can ya do? :) Speaking of, people in the OT have been very positive so far with their impressions. If you're unsure of something, go ask it there. Beats reviews, videos, etc.

I will briefly summarize how this change happened. The primary driver for this change in direction was a discovery post ship of Titanfall. The nature of mixed Pilot / Titan combat incentivizes players to choose loadouts that handle most situations well, rather than to counter player choices as you would in a healthy meta.

This lead to an abundance of xo-16s, cluster missiles, nukes, electric smokes, etc in mixed Pilot / Titan modes. Limited modes like LTS were far more healthy (although team wide stacking was a problem) , and in the extreme case of Wingman LTS the meta was really quite nice.

Over time and experimentation the new character-style Titan loadoat form developed. The inspiration was the Street Fighter games, which have long been a big influence here. The designer that took over the Titans and finished/shipped them was a prominent LOL designer so obviously that game ended up being a heavy influence as well.

Although there is certainly room for improvement, I am tentatively happy with how the new Titans are playing out. A good indicator is a much healthier debate around Titan meta in mixed modes than existed in Titanfall 1.

Thanks.
And there we go. Yeah, it's better in the sense that not everyone is rocking the same Titan loadouts.
 

IISANDERII

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Because hero FPSs are selling, why be innovative? /s

I have no idea, if they make a Titanfall 3, it should be with what the fans asked for and not what we have right now.
The fans aren't game designers. Giving the fans what they think they want is what has caused sales to plummet in COD.
 
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I mean yeah, the way you play the game is completely different. Sure it has all those things from TF1, but they're still two completely different games which I think the biggest attribute to this is the map design and not necessarily any small changes made which I have said since the tech test. I think Angel City playing good is important if they want to win back Titanfall 1 fans and I think it will. There's a lot more to how a game plays than just "both games have guns, they must be the same". Sure Titanfall 2 has the same parkour etc but none of the maps really embrace it even half as much as Titanfall 1 maps did. To me it feels more like a gimmick in Titanfall 2, like it did in the recent CoD's but that's just me and as I said maybe Angel City will change this.
I'm not saying the MP is garbage, to me it's ok, but that's only because I've accepted that it's not really Titanfall.


I don't really agree that people who already bought the game is better evidence, since most people who hated the tech test wouldn't have bought the main game in the first place leaving only a mostly biased side of the coin.
I feel like most people that are really loving the MP of this game either barely played the first or didnt play it at all. I'm not saying it's a bad game, I'm just not enjoying it near as much.

I have put quite a few hours into Titanfall 2 already and it isnt as good as Titanfall 1 IMO.
The skill gap feels like it has been compressed. There used to be a huge difference between someone that was really good with a 40 mill and somebody that was just ok. The better player would destroy the lesser player easily and there was a fair amount of variance in skill. Here, speaking specifically about Tone, there is only so much you can do. Yeah you can use all her abilities at the right time, but you just have to get the locks and shoot your missiles and repeat until you get your salvo. In Titanfall 1 you HAD to land your shots with the 40 and it felt much more satisfying as a result. The projectile for the 40 mill seems to be a mile wide in Titanfall 2 and it is pretty hard to miss Titans and pilots running around.

The pilot gameplay isnt as good because you die quicker. I have read where it was stated that the TTK was the same but to me its much faster. Stronger guns and or better hit detection has resulted in having no chance to react to being hit most of the time. The maps are probably the worst part though. If they wouldve kept the same design philosophy of Titanfall 1 the maps wouldve likely been better.

Yeah the game has Titans, wallrunning and guns but it doesnt feel the same as Titanfall 1 at all and it isnt nearly as fun for me personally. CTF was my main game mode I played in Titanfall 1 and it isnt nearly as enjoyable. CTF feels pretty hollow in Titanfall 2 and after a few rounds of it makes me want to go and play other modes. I have tried to stay off Titanfall 1 since Titanfall 2 launch day to give it a fair chance and see if my opinion would change but it hasnt and hopefully there are still people playing Titanfall 1 so I can go back to that.
 

Screaming Meat

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I feel like most people that are really loving the MP of this game either barely played the first or didnt play it at all.
Well, I played TF1 for quite a while - about 30+ hours - but got bored after about 10. I'm still enamoured with TF2 after the 20+ mark.
 

Greddleok

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I played 60 hours of the first, which is a lot for me. I am still in love with TF2, although I've only put in 4 hours so far (all multiplayer, haven't touched the campaign yet).

The Titan load out thing is fine. My biggest complaint is how easy it is to destroy the evac ship. No real point in making it there as it's gonna be blown up 9/10.
 

Jito

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I feel like most people that are really loving the MP of this game either barely played the first or didnt play it at all.
Strange feeling to have, I personally played over 150 hours of the first on PC and I'm loving the multiplayer in TF2.
 

Dabi

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Well... I'm having a blast so far. Just wish they shipped with 11-12 maps instead of the 8. Find myself playing through the same maps couple hundred times in a row