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Game Dev Why PS5, Series X Games Have Yet to Blow Us Away

ZlleH

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Dec 21, 2020
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Remedy(Control) Game Dev gives insight into Developing for next-gen.
00:00 - Intro
01:00 - How Control Uses PS5 Activity Cards
06:27 - Why Developing for PS5, Series X with Last-Gen “Sucks”
12:35 - Major Differences Developing for PS5, Series X|S


You can skip to 06:27 if you want as the first part has to do with only the PS5. But the Dev agrees that activity cards help motivate people to finish games, and Devs like it when you finish their games.

Highlights:
-What you see now with upgraded last-gen games to next-gen is limited to what you did coding for last-gen
-Not realistic to completely recode everything to use next-gen stuff because of time and resource
-The stuff they are working currently specifically for next-gen is going to blow us away visually
-The consoles are constantly being updated by Sony/MS for better performances, "it's super early days"
-Sony stuck with what works, so their system development and tools were stable and good early on
-MS decided to change a lot of things, good in the long run, but a bigger hurdle for devs early on
-Everyone talks about teraflops this and that, it's just numbers to devs, what really matters to devs are the tools and how everything works together.
-The dev then talks about Series S... not going to paraphrase him, it's better you listen to exactly what he states, but he starts off with a chuckle: 14:33
-Takes a huge amount of resources to make sure each platform runs the game efficiently, so it depends on how big your company is and the resources you are willing to invest in that process.
-Devs are just scratching the surface of next gen.

Note 01: Is it just me or does that Dev sound a lot like the Control janitor character? o_O

Note 02: I know this won't matter, but please let's not get into a console war for this topic. I have both PS5/SeriesX and was curious why "next-gen" hasn't blown me away yet, and I still end up playing on my PC gaming rig most of the time. I think this video answers a lot of what I was wondering.
 

Aguero9320

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This is why ‘generations’ are largely meaningless any more. Regular revisions of hardware and the devkits are the way forward. Playing way more ‘last gen’ games than I did last gen because the experience is so much better on the new hardware.

Personally I’d like to see a two year hardware refresh cycle and an end to ‘comparison’ videos.
 

abel empire

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He's complained about series s, said it's not as easy as people think about just lowering resolution and effects it's more complex than that, This is another developer out of a dozen to complain of series s but as usual fanatics will ignore this and call him a lazy retarded developer. 🤣
 

abel empire

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Feb 8, 2021
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This is why ‘generations’ are largely meaningless any more. Regular revisions of hardware and the devkits are the way forward. Playing way more ‘last gen’ games than I did last gen because the experience is so much better on the new hardware.

Personally I’d like to see a two year hardware refresh cycle and an end to ‘comparison’ videos.
It's not what he said. He said games don't look good because they are held back by lastgen engines, To say generations are meaningless is just plain ridiculous, and tasteless who the hell goes to buy a ps5 to play PS4 games in higher fps? Must be a very disturbed person, people buy nextgen consoles for nextgen experiences not for frame rates and resolutions. For bigger worlds better ai better graphics and better gameplay mechanics previously impossible.
 

Matt_Fox

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Jul 24, 2019
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So far this gen has been about backlog, and finding some wonderful games that I missed from the previous gen (and playing them boosted / enhanced).

On my PS5 I hugely enjoyed playing through Days Gone, it wasn't a snack - it was a full meal and god knows how many hours I put into it.

On my XSX I just have to say the words Game Pass, currently playing Evil Within (which I missed first time, really enjoying it), and I've got the likes of Prey, Wolfenstein, Star Wars Squadrons, and Nier Automata all lined up.

I wont be buying a new game until Resident Evil 8 in May!
 

dcmk7

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Mar 25, 2020
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He's complained about series s, said it's not as easy as people think about just lowering resolution and effects it's more complex than that, This is another developer out of a dozen to complain of series s but as usual fanatics will ignore this and call him a lazy retarded developer. 🤣
Agreed.

Let's hope not. It's a very candid interview. Doesn't deserve any abuse for simply being honest.
 

abel empire

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Feb 8, 2021
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Ive heard of them. Some of them even inhabit this very forum, according to the legends.

In my mind, its common sense that Series S will impact game development one way or another. To what extent we will probably never know. But some people beg to differ.
I firstly believed series s will impact nextgen development but as usual like any inferior hardware developers will simply stop caring about it and just slap ugly poor looking games in the future
 

Mmnow

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Jun 16, 2020
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This generation started like two years ago and has been slowly phasing in since. We started getting games like Shadow of the Tomb Raider and FF7:R, both stunning on the higher end consoles. PC gamers started getting stuff like RTX and DLSS. There was never going to be a giant leap over these things just cause some better hardware came out.

Just because the formal gen started when the Series X and PS5 came out doesn't mean all the progress since the Pro and One X came out was for nothing.
 

Bernd Lauert

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Apr 15, 2018
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Ive heard of them. Some of them even inhabit this very forum, according to the legends.

In my mind, its common sense that Series S will impact game development one way or another. To what extent we will probably never know. But some people beg to differ.
The biggest bottleneck is bandwidth. It's not an ideal situation but it's gonna be fine. Worst case scenario, the XSS is just gonna be kinda shit to play on 2-3 years from now. You get what you pay for.
 

Mmnow

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He's complained about series s, said it's not as easy as people think about just lowering resolution and effects it's more complex than that, This is another developer out of a dozen to complain of series s but as usual fanatics will ignore this and call him a lazy retarded developer. 🤣
He literally didn't say that. He was talking about Control, but said from now on they can include it from day one and give it as good a shake as it deserves.

Did you just listen to what you wanted to and then rush here to post?
 

skit_data

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Nov 3, 2020
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I firstly believed series s will impact nextgen development but as usual like any inferior hardware developers will simply stop caring about it and just slap ugly poor looking games in the future
We will probably see some ugly games, but ugly games are at least playable. Im more worried about the games that has to be scrapped during the early design phase because the lowest spec wont be able to handle it. Stuff not yet even comprehended by devs.
 

RobRSG

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Jun 3, 2013
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I’ve saw the interview and I came to the conclusion that Remedy packed a quick cash grab using pocket change budget. Beautiful.
 
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abel empire

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Thats what I mean, we're talking about games RIGHT at the start of a gen, only N64 and Dreamcast have done that for me. It takes till mid gen to really see the "wow" factor.
Yeah but I think they rushed this consoles, if all they had was bc games and unpolished tools/
He literally didn't say that. He was talking about Control, but said from now on they can include it from day one and give it as good a shake as it deserves.

Did you just listen to what you wanted to and then rush here to post?
what a lier you was clearly listening with ur head in the sand, he clearly said series s will hold back development for nextgen consoles like ps5 and series x because you'll want to make sure the game perprfms well with all features on all platforms and that it's not easy as people keep talking about just lowering resolution and effects it's more complex than that especially for a small studio like them. And he even started explaining the series s with a chuckle. And here you are in denial completely spreading blatant lies when everybody has watched the video. Come on man let it go
 
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skit_data

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The biggest bottleneck is bandwidth. It's not an ideal situation but it's gonna be fine. Worst case scenario, the XSS is just gonna be kinda shit to play on 2-3 years from now. You get what you pay for.
Ill try to summarize my thoughts on Series S and the surrounding discussion in one picture:

Hopefully noone gets offended, religious or otherwise
 
Last edited:

LMJ

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Feb 7, 2019
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Gee, I would like to say I told you folks so, but let's be honest its significantly stronger coming from a dev (thanks remedy)

This gen with under two TFs and a laptop CPU we got games like Ghosts, God of War and TLOU2

On the weaker XbOne we got Gears 5, Sea of Thieves and Horizon

And that's a select few...we now have systems pushing SIGNIFICANTLY stronger specs and tools

We are getting crumbs from last gen (shiny high res crumbs) and certainly NOT a representation of WHAT these new systems are capable of...

We will REALLY start to see what the V and the the XseX can do as new engines and optimizations are more common...UR5 is only the beginning
 

Mmnow

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Jun 16, 2020
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Yeah but I think they rushed this consoles, if all they had was bc games and unpolished tools/

what a lier you was clearly listening with ur head in the sand, he clearly said series s will hold back development for nextgen consoles like ps5 and series x because you'll want to make sure the game perprfms well with all features on all platforms and that it's not easy as people keep talking about just lowering resolution and effects it's more complex than that especially for a small studio like them. And he even started explaining the series s with a chuckle. And here you are in denial completely spreading blatant lies when everybody has watched the video. Come on man let it go
It's right there in the video.

15:42

it's a lot more difficult to engineer an

15:45

old game

15:46

to make sure it works on everything but

15:49

now that we're building the future games

15:50

and hey we know these are the system it

15:52

has to run we take that into account

15:55

from

15:55

from day one and and we can ensure that

15:57

all platforms

15:59

have as good of an experience

16:02

as as possible um that that's that's

16:05

what

16:05

uh need needs to happen and you know we

16:08

appreciate that

16:10

you know there's a lower barrier of

16:12

entry for an action experience

He then talks about resources which would've been a valid thing for you to bring up, but instead you'drather tell a half-truth so you can console war..
 
Last edited:

ultrazilla

Member
Sep 17, 2011
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Nothing has terribly impressed me. Demon Souls-yeah, if you can fucking get past a few levels there's some really cool looking stuff but it's like trying to hump your wife
from outside the glass shower door. It looks great but you just can't get there. Well, at least that's my experience.

The standout for me has been the patched for PS5/Xbox Series X, Destiny 2. Native 4k resolution at 60 fps and really fast loading times. That's a good start for sure.

Unfortunately, I don't think we're really going to be seeing the true power of these systems for at least another couple years. It's still early days and the devs are still in the
beginning stages of learning what these machines can and can't do.

That's why it's a good thing I have my gaming PC with with an i-9-9900k cpu at 3.60hz, 32 gig ram, SSD drive and Nvidia 2080 Founder's Edition. It gets the job done nicely.
 

abel empire

Banned
Feb 8, 2021
661
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It's right there in the video.

15:42

it's a lot more difficult to engineer an

15:45

old game

15:46

to make sure it works on everything but

15:49

now that we're building the future games

15:50

and hey we know these are the system it

15:52

has to run we take that into account

15:55

from

15:55

from day one and and we can ensure that

15:57

all platforms

15:59

have as good of an experience

16:02

as as possible um that that's that's

16:05

what

16:05

uh need needs to happen and you know we

16:08

appreciate that

16:10

you know there's a lower barrier of

16:12

entry for an action experience

He then talks about resources which would've been a valid thing for you to bring up, but instead you'drather tell a half-truth so you can console war..
Mate continue deluding yourself it's not harming anybody but yourself, go read the comment and litterary everybody hasn't heard the developer complaining about series s but somehow you've found the positivity it's even been a dozen developers now but no to you there's positives, Theresa no point arguing with u you can argue that gravity doesn't exist in ur mind I'll win.
 
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Mmnow

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Mate continue deluding yourself it's not harming anybody but yourself, go read the comment and litterary everybody hasn't heard the developer complaining about series s but somehow you've found the positivity it's even been a dozen developers now but no to you there's positives, Theresa no point arguing with u you can argue that gravity doesn't exist in ur mind I'll win.
I'm not defending the Series S, I'm calling out your bullshit.

You've rushed here to share something that isn't accurate, I've provided the proof where he says - direct quote - "all platforms will have as good as an experience as possible".

If what you're saying is true, you don't have to lie about it. It's just true. And if not for respect of the truth, at least have the respect not to put words in this guy's mouth.
 

Hunnybun

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Jun 3, 2020
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I'd say that the main reason I haven't been blown away by next gen games yet is that I've barely SEEN any. That's what has frustrated me more than the lack of releases: the shortage of even much footage.

So far what I have seen has been a mixed bag:

Ratchet & Clank looks absolutely awesome, definitely the most impressive example. It seems to be running at or close to 4k, too. If the consoles can do those graphics at that resolution then they're beasts and it's gonna be an amazing generation.

Kena looks very good too, maybe a small step below Ratchet but still amazing for such a small developer.

Miles Morales is the most impressive game I've actually played. It's obviously rooted in last gen but for whatever reason it just looks way cleaner and shinier. I get that the RT is technically impressive but I'm sceptical of its value this gen if this is an indication. From a distance it doesn't look that much better than SSR, and up close the limitations are very glaring. It doesn't look like a reflection: it looks like a PS2 version of the scene behind you running at half frame rate. What's the point of that?

Demon's Souls I've always been slightly disappointed by. It just doesn't LOOK that much better than the best PS4 games to me. I can't really put my finger on why, either. I think maybe some of the problem is just artistic choices by Bluepoint. Anyway, I was disappointed.

Deathloop looks great IMO. Very underrated, presumably because of the slightly cartoony style. But if you just look at the fidelity then it's obviously well beyond anything from last gen. 60fps too so if it also has a high native resolution (it probably won't but whatever) then that's seriously impressive.

Destruction Allstars - basically the same as Deathloop only more so. Art style REALLY detracts from the actual fidelity.

Returnal - sorry I don't have much good to say about this. Looks worse than a lot of PS4 games. Probably the least impressive big next gen game I've seen.

So it's mostly good from what we've seen, but what we've seen in terms of work from the biggest and most talented developers is effectively limited to one game. But at least that one game looks incredible.
 
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abel empire

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I'm not defending the Series S, I'm calling out your bullshit.

You've rushed here to share something that isn't accurate, I've provided the proof where he says - direct quote - "all platforms will have as good as an experience as possible".

If what you're saying is true, you don't have to lie about it. It's just true. And if not for respect of the truth, at least have the respect not to put words in this guy's mouth.
Mate your writing clear bullshit there's no point in arguing with u just keep moving because everybody has clearly heard the developer complain about series s except you for some reason only god knows.
 

Leyasu

Member
Apr 25, 2014
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Yeah but I think they rushed this consoles, if all they had was bc games and unpolished tools/

what a lier you was clearly listening with ur head in the sand, he clearly said series s will hold back development for nextgen consoles like ps5 and series x because you'll want to make sure the game perprfms well with all features on all platforms and that it's not easy as people keep talking about just lowering resolution and effects it's more complex than that especially for a small studio like them. And he even started explaining the series s with a chuckle. And here you are in denial completely spreading blatant lies when everybody has watched the video. Come on man let it go
He talked about making games using last gen engines... He was also talking about Q&A also.
 

DavidGzz

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Jan 7, 2018
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I love Demon's and think it looks amazing but there is a fuzziness that makes it only on par overall with Gears 5. Especially that expansion. We still need a game that shows a definite jump and I think they are coming.