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Game Dev Why PS5, Series X Games Have Yet to Blow Us Away

DarkMage619

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By this logic devs will never stop releasing PS4/Xbone versions either. After all, it's just a bit of extra work.
Despite the PS4 outselling the X1 world wide no developer just upped and stopped making X1 games. X1 and PS4 games are still getting made to this day. What is your point?
 
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No, they will once sales of those versions no longer offset the work.

While there could potentially be some extra time required to get XSS versions of games to where they're comfortable with the product, you're pretending it's far more additional work than it is.

You should avoid logic if that's your example of it. It obviously doesn't agree with you.
The XSS is a last-gen machine: devs will stop developing for it when it's no longer capable of running the games they want to design.
Despite the PS4 outselling the X1 world wide no developer just upped and stopped making X1 games. X1 and PS4 games are still getting made to this day. What is your point?
My point is that at a certain point devs' ambitions outstrip the capabilities of last-gen hardware and the cross-gen window closes. This will also happen with the XSS.

The power differential between the PS4 and the Xbone was nowhere near as great as between the PS5/XSX and the XSS.
 
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JackMcGunns

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WE've


He also said that we can expect HUGE improvements from both platforms over the year.


Right, but I think you're missing the point, the argument was that Series X tools being behind was just an excuse, that both Sony and MS tools will require improvements over time, but he just confirmed what has been said, that developers are already familiar with PS5 tools because they stuck with the same formula, while Series X tools require a rewrite of code, thus the reason why head to heads are close and Series X pulling out some wins in the resolution department... this is WITH a handicap.
 
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DarkMage619

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The XSS is a last-gen machine: devs will stop developing for it when it's no longer capable of running the games they want to design.
What are you talking about? Please explain how the XSS is a last gen machine. Point to the technical aspects of the device if you can.
 

tillbot8

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I'm confident the goods are coming, but I am also mindful of diminishing returns graphically. The SSD and reasonable CPU's this gen should allow devs to bring much improved QoL's besides how pretty something is. That is what i'm looking forward to!
 
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Derktron

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Because developers are lazy when it comes to developing games, plain and simple, the technology is there and it’s waiting to be used but some developers are lazy or waiting too damn long in using the technology.
 

Sub Boss

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The new consoles have the hardware(specially the CPU) to blow us away, but we are no longer on the PS2 days(2001?) were every company came up with games showing giant leaps on graphics the first six months(!) of new console launches, the realities of game development have changed drastically, making Xbox ONE S graphics alone is insanely expensive and take lots of time, the first year and so is gonna be mostly cross gen with developers updating their last gen engines rather than building from the ground up to take advantage of PS5 and Series X, and honestly thats fair, we are not in 2001 anymore i see fanboys get angry because their machines aren't magic but the hardware is adequate for a new gen it will just take longer to see big results👌what the machines can do with last gen and 7 gen is still impressive
I mean its been this way with nearly every generation. Honestly the only "grand leap" I can remember was Snes to N64 and the Dreamcast launch.
Now try going back to your precious Nintendo 64/Dreamcast after playing dat PS5 Series X goodness
 
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rolandss

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I mean its been this way with nearly every generation. Honestly the only "grand leap" I can remember was Snes to N64 and the Dreamcast launch.
No way. SNES to 64/PS was a huge leap forward. PS2 to PS3/Xbox to 360 era was the biggest and most noticeable leap. I remember seeing a friend playing Gears of War at his house when I’d just been playing San Andreas that day and thinking “WTF games look like cutscenes now”. I went out the next week, got a PS3 and Uncharted and was totally blown away.
This gen is more like PS3 to PS4 where the first year was a bunch of ports that weren’t that much better. We’re experiencing it now.
 

DarkMage619

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It's much closer to the Xbox One X than it is to the PS5/XSX in terms of overall performance.
That is not true. There is no feature the XSX has that the XSS does not outside of the blu-ray drive. The X1X has no game with raytracing but the XSS does. New games like the Medium don't work on the X1X at all. Quick resume doesn't work on the X1X. Load times are better on the XSS. When Cyberpunk 2077 came out there was 3 consoles that ran the game well. The X1X was NOT one of them. Way more games run at 60fps on the XSS than on X1X. It's fine to not like or want the XSS but there is no need to lie about it.
 
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Dec 2, 2018
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That is not true. There is no feature the XSX has that the XSS does not outside of the blu-ray drive. The X1X has no game with raytracing but the XSS does. New games like the Medium don't work on the X1X at all. Quick resume doesn't work on the X1X. Load times are better on the XSS. When Cyberpunk 2077 came out there was 3 consoles that ran the game well. The X1X was NOT one of them. Way more games run at 60fps on the XSS than on X1X. It's fine to not like or want the XSS but there is no need to lie about it.
The X1X has a more powerful GPU and more RAM. The XSS has a more powerful CPU and a solid state drive. They're quite comparable in overall performance. The XSS is the better machine, of course, but it's nothing like the PS5/XSX.
 

DavidGzz

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The XSS is a last-gen machine: devs will stop developing for it when it's no longer capable of running the games they want to design.

My point is that at a certain point devs' ambitions outstrip the capabilities of last-gen hardware and the cross-gen window closes. This will also happen with the XSS.

The power differential between the PS4 and the Xbone was nowhere near as great as between the PS5/XSX and the XSS.

The Witcher 3 is on the Switch. If you think it will be too tough to port any current gen game to Series S just because it has less RAM, you're nuts and just trolling. It already plays a game that is only 30fps on PS5 and XSX. Watchdogs: Legion. The power gap is non-existent compared to a Switch and the PS4.


The X1X has a more powerful GPU and more RAM. The XSS has a more powerful CPU and a solid state drive. They're quite comparable in overall performance. The XSS is the better machine, of course, but it's nothing like the PS5/XSX.


The vast majority of the power difference could be erased simply by playing games at 1080p vs. 4k. We're already seeing that across all games. Series S at 1080p is much more similar to XSX than the Xbox One X. The CPU and SSD are exactly why.
 
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DrAspirino

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The XSS is a last-gen machine: devs will stop developing for it when it's no longer capable of running the games they want to design.

My point is that at a certain point devs' ambitions outstrip the capabilities of last-gen hardware and the cross-gen window closes. This will also happen with the XSS.

The power differential between the PS4 and the Xbone was nowhere near as great as between the PS5/XSX and the XSS.
Seems you're forgetting something here... what could it be?



So... if developers and publishers want the money from gamepass subscriptions, they will inevitably have to develop games for XSS.
 
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Dream-Knife

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The XSS is a last-gen machine: devs will stop developing for it when it's no longer capable of running the games they want to design.
The hardware is a weaker version of the same stuff that's in the XSX and PS5. It will run the same games at lower settings. It's no different from comparing a PS5 and XSX to AMDs new GPUs. PS5 and XSX play the same games but at lower settings. Devs aren't abandoning those two systems.
 
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Three

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Do people think we don’t know it’s a ps3 remake? If Microsoft remade a game of theirs that was actually good and turned it into a graphical showcase people would be shitting themselves
Xbox fan: OMG I can play upscaled 360 and xbox one games on my XSX!
PS fan: OMG Demon's Souls looks stunning at 60fps/4k and with modern graphics on PS5.
Xbox fan: so what, it's just a PS3 game.

It's bizarre. Not calling out that user specifically but I've seen this with certain users.
 
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Shelookdlvl18

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It's much closer to the Xbox One X than it is to the PS5/XSX in terms of overall performance.
If you reeeeeeaally want the truth...

The PS5 is actually closer to the XSS, than it is the XSX much of the time. So I guess the best thing for us to do is....



Unite! We'll join forces, and together persuade developers to abandon both the XSS, and the PS5. Then they can focus solely on the XSX.
 
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I doubt it strongly. We'll see. Hardware limitations are real and unless you know how to pull some rabbit out of the 3d rendering hat, I'll remain skeptical.

We have a few devs on the record saying we are just at the tip of the iceberg in terms of what next-gen is capable of. Remedy and also Insomniac. Probably more.
 
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VFXVeteran

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We have a few devs on the record saying we are just at the tip of the iceberg in terms of what next-gen is capable of. Remedy and also Insomniac. Probably more.
I'll believe it when I see it. We have way too much work ahead of us before people like me would be wow'd. We still don't have a good hair shader. The skin shaders are using small number of iterations for calculating light propagation. There is still a struggle with multiple shadow casting lights. Transparency FX is still a huge bottleneck. The resolution output is so impactful on current hardware that that bothers me. RT is only going to be viable with some sort of AI to crunch on best guess final image output because even the high end GPUs (i.e. RTX3090) get brought to it's knees without it. We would need a mastery of the entire rasterization pipeline in order to be a leap over what we see now. Very few studios will get there this gen, if at all. Most because they simply won't have the budget to get there.
 
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Shelookdlvl18

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Xbox fan: OMG I can play upscaled 360 and xbox one games on my XSX!
PS fan: OMG Demon's Souls looks stunning at 60fps/4k and with modern graphics on PS5.
Xbox fan: so what, it's just a PS3 game.

It's bizarre. Not calling out that user specifically but I've seen this with certain users.
You're excluding one key difference.

Xbox fan: I'm looking forward to later this year when the exclusives really start flowing.

PS fan: So hyped with all these PS5 exclusives. Demon Souls is definitely the best exclusive I've played in awhile.

"What you've seen with certain users" doesn't change reality or facts. The truly bizarre is that while both fans can play old games with updated graphics and improved performance on their respective consoles...
Only one of them are calling that old game an exclusive on their newest console.
 

Three

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You're excluding one key difference.

Xbox fan: I'm looking forward to later this year when the exclusives really start flowing.

PS fan: So hyped with all these PS5 exclusives. Demon Souls is definitely the best exclusive I've played in awhile.

"What you've seen with certain users" doesn't change reality or facts. The truly bizarre is that while both fans can play old games with updated graphics and improved performance on their respective consoles...
Only one of them are calling that old game an exclusive on their newest console.

So your concern is that it isn't an exclusive because an old version is on PS3 so they can't be enjoying it as an exclusive? It's not like PS fans aren't looking forward to other exclusives that are already announced and coming out too.

Don't want to derail the thread talking about fanboys and exclusives but I just found it strange how people try and belittle demons souls as an old game and therefore not anything to be impressed about while simultaneously being impressed about also playing similarly old games that don't look half as good.

If you reeeeeeaally want the truth...

The PS5 is actually closer to the XSS, than it is the XSX much of the time. So I guess the best thing for us to do is....



Unite! We'll join forces, and together persuade developers to abandon both the XSS, and the PS5. Then they can focus solely on the XSX.
Ok I see what's happening here. I'll see myself out of this conversation.
 
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Krizalidx11

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welp they will when every game comes out with (framerate mode) that can't push native 4k in 2021, in PS5 case you know it'll always have 30fps mode :D
 

DarkMage619

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The X1X has a more powerful GPU and more RAM. The XSS has a more powerful CPU and a solid state drive. They're quite comparable in overall performance. The XSS is the better machine, of course, but it's nothing like the PS5/XSX.
The GPU is not more powerful. The X1X GPU does not support raytracing, VRS, SFS, or Velocity architecture with the SSD. They are not comparable. The X1X is a last generation device the XSS is a current generation device.
 
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Kumomeme

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we been just few month since launch.

Dean Winchester Facepalm GIF
 

DarkMage619

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So your concern is that it isn't an exclusive because an old version is on PS3 so they can't be enjoying it as an exclusive? It's not like PS fans aren't looking forward to other exclusives that are already announced and coming out too.

Don't want to derail the thread talking about fanboys and exclusives but I just found it strange how people try and belittle demons souls as an old game and therefore not anything to be impressed about while simultaneously being impressed about also playing similarly old games that don't look half as good.


Ok I see what's happening here. I'll see myself out of this conversation.
Not to call into question Demon Souls quality, but surely you can understand multiple titles getting frame rate boost, auto HDR, and higher resolutions and filtering for no additional charge and a single game with the same gameplay and better graphics for $70. Demon souls is clearly a good game but it's one game. Some people think many is better than one.
 

HAL-01

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It’s so silly seeing all the threads popping up here and there from people saying they’re disappointed or let down by next gen, while we’re still in the first third of the first year of these new consoles

It happens every generation. People become impatient and suddenly forget that there’s always a transition period
 
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Kholinar

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I'll believe it when I see it. We have way too much work ahead of us before people like me would be wow'd. We still don't have a good hair shader. The skin shaders are using small number of iterations for calculating light propagation. There is still a struggle with multiple shadow casting lights. Transparency FX is still a huge bottleneck. The resolution output is so impactful on current hardware that that bothers me. RT is only going to be viable with some sort of AI to crunch on best guess final image output because even the high end GPUs (i.e. RTX3090) get brought to it's knees without it. We would need a mastery of the entire rasterization pipeline in order to be a leap over what we see now. Very few studios will get there this gen, if at all. Most because they simply won't have the budget to get there.
...soo PS6? What timeframe do you next envision the generational leap we've been clawing for?
 

abel empire

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We will probably see some ugly games, but ugly games are at least playable. Im more worried about the games that has to be scrapped during the early design phase because the lowest spec wont be able to handle it. Stuff not yet even comprehended by devs.
Like I said they won't scrap games they'll probably design it with the series x ps5 and pc in mind and Port to series s they won't care how good it'll look on series s this will a time the end become microsofts problem. Remember the Nintendo wii, developers cared about the wii early on but as time went by they stopped making games for it and focused on PS3 x360
 
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pratyush

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I agree with respect to activity card. When I first saw it in presentation video, I thought it's just a gimmick but in control it really helped me track the progress. Although trophies means nothing to me but I completed few extra task just by seeing the progress I had already made. Made the game much more enjoyable I guess because I wouldn't normally have done some stuff if it wasn't for activity card
 

Caio

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we been just few month since launch.

Dean Winchester Facepalm GIF

Exactly my thoughts and my facial expression...it's like some people have been leaving under a rock for several generations and just woke up now. Big AAA games requires a lot of time and resources, and developers should know the new hardware very well before producing the best results. Anybody here believe that The Last of Us Part II was possible on PS4 at Launch or within the first year from Launch ? Same for Horizon and God of War, just to name some.
Furthermore, apart from the already impressive Demon's Souls, we have only seen lazy ports, BC games, cross gen Games, early first generation games, held back by last gen hardware, so how the hell can someone be blown away by the overall quality till now ? By the way, Ratchet will look very very good, and it's less than 3 months to go, then Horizon should blow us away, still scheduled for 2021 if I'm not wrong. GT7 and God of War should follow in 2022, so not bad at all if you ask me. I don't know about XSX, I'm simply worried that XSS might hold back the big very powerful brother, mostly because of ram limitations, but this is just my thoughts, I might be wrong.
 
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Flutta

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Why lump PS5 with Xone? Did that dude even play Demon Souls? Trash journalism as usual from IGN.
 
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Flutta

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What are you talking about? Please explain how the XSS is a last gen machine. Point to the technical aspects of the device if you can.
I wouldnt even call XSS a puré next gen machine. Even devs are compailing about its capabilties. XSS is more of bottleneck to XSX/PS5 than anything else.

XSS is in the same position as Switch was last gen.
 

Ten_Fold

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Gonna be a while, Demon’s Souls looked amazing, forspoken looks good, Halo infinite will probably be fixed and looking great. You gotta understand this gen just started, everything is kinda delayed, and it will take YEARS to get the most outta these systems.
 
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Bernd Lauert

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Xbox fan: OMG I can play upscaled 360 and xbox one games on my XSX!
PS fan: OMG Demon's Souls looks stunning at 60fps/4k and with modern graphics on PS5.
Xbox fan: so what, it's just a PS3 game.

It's bizarre. Not calling out that user specifically but I've seen this with certain users.
DeS is 1440p60. And while it looks beautiful, gameplay wise it's still a 12 year old game. So both sides have a point.
 
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Mr_Potato

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Not to call into question Demon Souls quality, but surely you can understand multiple titles getting frame rate boost, auto HDR, and higher resolutions and filtering for no additional charge and a single game with the same gameplay and better graphics for $70. Demon souls is clearly a good game but it's one game. Some people think many is better than one.

Demon's Souls was remade from scratch. Assets have nothing in common with the 2008 game. It's a new game outside of gameplay.

It has nothing to do with fps boost on older games like on Xbox. None of those games are new.

The mental gymnastic some Xbox fans have to use is something incredible.

Xbox fans must ask for exclusives on their platform and stop trying to belittle those which are on the competition like Demon's Souls or Miles Morales.

Or just buy a PS5 and play them. What will they say for Ratchet? It's not a new game because there were Ratchet games on PS2? You're trying way too hard.
 
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It seems like nothing new was said here:
1. The series S is holding next gen back which we already knew would happen.
2. The PS5 is performing better for some multiple platform games because of the lack of tools Xbox has which we already knew.
3. Most of the games that we have seen so far isn’t taking the full advantage of the next gen hardware.

I think Phil already said he will be looking into helping devs better optimize for the Series S/X. I think they should just pull the plug on the series s, it does not serve a purpose outside of just being cheap but as time goes on both the PS5 and Series X will be discounted so that’s not a good enough reason to bottleneck next gen.
 
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Moonjt9

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Xbox Series S is the Tonya Harding of the next gen Nancy Kerrigan consoles PS5 and Series X
 

SaucyJack

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Not to call into question Demon Souls quality, but surely you can understand multiple titles getting frame rate boost, auto HDR, and higher resolutions and filtering for no additional charge and a single game with the same gameplay and better graphics for $70. Demon souls is clearly a good game but it's one game. Some people think many is better than one.

That’s a bit of a false equivalence though isn’t it.

Without a doubt what Microsoft have done with Backwards Compatibility since the middle of last generation is best in class and the standard that all platform holders should be aiming for. PS4 to PS5 BC is OK but I really would welcome this level of BC support on PlayStation, no question.

BUT

New generation and I’m more interested in new games. Are we really pretending that Demons's Souls is the only exclusive PlayStation title this gen? PS5 is going to have an amazing first year when all is said and done. XSX still feels very much like they’re offering jam tomorrow.
 

Three

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DeS is 1440p60. And while it looks beautiful, gameplay wise it's still a 12 year old game. So both sides have a point.
Yeah in performance mode. it has a 4k mode too. It's not like the upscaled 360 games or xbox one games change in gameplay either. Let people be excited for the remake, there's no need to belittle it really.

DarkMage619 DarkMage619
You get free upgrades ( hdr, fps boost, res boost) for PS5 too, god of war, GoT, Days gone, Destiny 2, Dirt 5, AC etc. One doesn't replace the other. It's not an either or.
 
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Black_Stride

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The tools the tools the tools.
This is probably the first gen where the graphics didn't really blow me away across the board. Most gens had at least one console or game that really had the wow factor. The load times are the biggest selling point thus far.

Historically the games that blew me away were:

SNES - Super Mario World
PS1 - Battle Arena Toshinden
N64 - None, PS1 games were already kinda "there" graphically and a year earlier to boot
Dreamcast - Soul Calibur
PS2 - Early games looked Dreamcast like to me so maybe nothing really until Final Fantasy X.
GCN - Rogue Squadron
Xbox - None until Ninja Gaiden came out. That game was ridiculous.
Xbox 360 - Call of Duty 2 most likely
PS3 - weirdly none until LA Noire. That tech was crazy.
PS4 - Assassin's Creed Black Flag - mostly the sailing parts
XB1 - None

Hoping we get a Ninja Gaiden or LA Noire moment where I'm wondering how they're even doing those graphics.

Ryse was a launch title?
Say what you will about gameplay but graphically the GI, material quality, Skin shaders, softbody physics on faces was nothing short of astounding.
 

TonyK

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So, because of Series S will we potentially face that last gen burden all this gen? Is there only hope in Sony first party games (in the future, not now with that cross gen shit)?
 

Alpha Male

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but it's like trying to hump your wife
from outside the glass shower door. It looks great but you just can't get there. Well, at least that's my experience.
Bahaha! That's one of the best things I've ever seen posted here!
 
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