• Hey, guest user. Hope you're enjoying NeoGAF! Have you considered registering for an account? Come join us and add your take to the daily discourse.
  • The Politics forum has been nuked. Please do not bring political discussion to the rest of the site, or you will be removed. Thanks.

Game Dev Why PS5, Series X Games Have Yet to Blow Us Away

Azurro

Member
Jun 11, 2018
2,296
4,096
450
That is not true. There is no feature the XSX has that the XSS does not outside of the blu-ray drive. The X1X has no game with raytracing but the XSS does. New games like the Medium don't work on the X1X at all. Quick resume doesn't work on the X1X. Load times are better on the XSS. When Cyberpunk 2077 came out there was 3 consoles that ran the game well. The X1X was NOT one of them. Way more games run at 60fps on the XSS than on X1X. It's fine to not like or want the XSS but there is no need to lie about it.

No one is lying about it, it has GPU wise the performance of a 1X, it's an important limitation and unfortunately an anchor for a starting point for next gen game design, as every game will need to ensure it runs on that damn toaster more or less ok.
 
Last edited:
  • Like
Reactions: Md Ray

DarkMage619

Member
Jun 19, 2004
3,006
5,216
1,635
Demon's Souls was remade from scratch. Assets have nothing in common with the 2008 game. It's a new game outside of gameplay.

It has nothing to do with fps boost on older games like on Xbox. None of those games are new.

The mental gymnastic some Xbox fans have to use is something incredible.

Xbox fans must ask for exclusives on their platform and stop trying to belittle those which are on the competition like Demon's Souls or Miles Morales.

Or just buy a PS5 and play them. What will they say for Ratchet? It's not a new game because there were Ratchet games on PS2? You're trying way too hard.
You yourself stated 'new game outside of gameplay' meaning the same game with better graphics and a $70 price tag. If you think that is a better value than playing games you already own at higher framerate and resolution for free that's fine.

There are people out there who prefer to not repurchase a game they already played that simply looks better. If you are talking God of War 2018 vs God of War 2005 you'd have a better argument. No one said Demon Souls is bad it just isn't new just like the old games on the Xbox.
 
  • Fire
  • Triggered
Reactions: Riky and Md Ray

Azurro

Member
Jun 11, 2018
2,296
4,096
450
You yourself stated 'new game outside of gameplay' meaning the same game with better graphics and a $70 price tag. If you think that is a better value than playing games you already own at higher framerate and resolution for free that's fine.

There are people out there who prefer to not repurchase a game they already played that simply looks better. If you are talking God of War 2018 vs God of War 2005 you'd have a better argument. No one said Demon Souls is bad it just isn't new just like the old games on the Xbox.

Demon's Souls is a complete remake, the best looking game around for a lot of people. To compare that to a software hack to increase framerate and resolution to old games is silly, it's not comparable and something only a fanboy would say.
 

Renozokii

Member
Nov 4, 2019
673
1,335
455
Xbox fan: OMG I can play upscaled 360 and xbox one games on my XSX!
PS fan: OMG Demon's Souls looks stunning at 60fps/4k and with modern graphics on PS5.
Xbox fan: so what, it's just a PS3 game.

It's bizarre. Not calling out that user specifically but I've seen this with certain users.
Fucking well put amigo. Damn near Microsoft’s entire strategy this gen is centered around old games but Sony puts out a fan favorite remade from the ground up to be a showcase of their console and suddenly that’s boring and underwhelming. Never mind it was the lowest selling souls game and most souls fans have never played it.
 

Renozokii

Member
Nov 4, 2019
673
1,335
455
Absolutely true, that's why they bought/created all those studios, to make old games......sigh.
In a way sure. They didn’t really create studios, they created a studio that still hasn’t put a game out. They bought a bunch of studios that would have continued putting out games either way because Microsoft kind of sucks at the creating part. You aren’t really getting more Xbox games, you are getting the same amount of games roughly except now PlayStation users can’t play em.
 
  • LOL
Reactions: Gatox

DarkMage619

Member
Jun 19, 2004
3,006
5,216
1,635
Demon's Souls is a complete remake, the best looking game around for a lot of people. To compare that to a software hack to increase framerate and resolution to old games is silly, it's not comparable and something only a fanboy would say.
People have different opinions. Like I said God of War comparisons from 2005 to 2018 is a much better value to me but if you prefer the remake route good on you. You feel the same way about Spiderman and Last of Us redos as well? Only fanboys prefer to play their games updated for no extra charge after all.

In a way sure. They didn’t really create studios, they created a studio that still hasn’t put a game out. They bought a bunch of studios that would have continued putting out games either way because Microsoft kind of sucks at the creating part. You aren’t really getting more Xbox games, you are getting the same amount of games roughly except now PlayStation users can’t play em.
MS has been in the console industry for almost 20 years. They have put out lots of great games even if you refuse to believe that. They buy studios just like Sony buys studios. The only difference is that when MS buys a studio you DO NOT have to buy an Xbox to play them. You can't say that for either Nintendo or Sony. Most people here seem to have high end gaming PCs so they never miss new Xbox games anyway. It's pretty cool that no one misses anything.
 
  • Triggered
Reactions: dcmk7

Renozokii

Member
Nov 4, 2019
673
1,335
455
People have different opinions. Like I said God of War comparisons from 2005 to 2018 is a much better value to me but if you prefer the remake route good on you. You feel the same way about Spiderman and Last of Us redos as well? Only fanboys prefer to play their games updated for no extra charge after all.


MS has been in the console industry for almost 20 years. They have put out lots of great games even if you refuse to believe that. They buy studios just like Sony buys studios. The only difference is that when MS buys a studio you DO NOT have to buy an Xbox to play them. You can't say that for either Nintendo or Sony. Most people here seem to have high end gaming PCs so they never miss new Xbox games anyway. It's pretty cool that no one misses anything.
>People have different opinions. Like I said God of War comparisons from 2005 to 2018 is a much better value to me but if you prefer the remake route good on you. You feel the same way about Spiderman and Last of Us redos as well? Only fanboys prefer to play their games updated for no extra charge after all.

If I want to replay an old game, genuine changes to the look and performance of a game interest me more than backward compatibility in most cases. Spider-Man on ps5 looks genuinely next gen and ps4 owners can still play the old game free. I didn’t play it on release and playing it for the first time with visuals that rival most games coming out today was something I have no issue paying for. I’d wager more people bought the mw2 campaign remaster than those that went back and replayed it through bc. I’d take that bet on every single game that had a noteworthy remaster that is free to play through bc

>MS has been in the console industry for almost 20 years.

dope? They were relevant globally for maybe 5 of those 20

>They have put out lots of great games even if you refuse to believe that.

Depends what you mean by put out? Publishers 10 years ago? Sure. Most of Microsoft’s most note worthy past games, especially during the 360 days, were developed second party. Many of those studios like epic and bungie that are doing just fine without em. Then you have lionhead that put out one of their best selling exclusives in fable 2. Dead now. Only stand out

>They buy studios just like Sony buys studios.

No they don’t. They buy studios using money they don’t make from gaming because their gaming division has yet to be profitable because you know, they kind of suck. When has Sony went on a nearly 10 billion buying spree of a mass variety of studios? I’d also say many of the studios, shit most, that Sony has bought already had close connections to Sony. Insomniac has been working with Sony for decades closely and had their most successful game ever in partnership with Sony before the acquisition happened. I will never complain about Microsoft buying playground for example, that’s one of the few good, smart decisions they’ve actually made.

>The only difference is that when MS buys a studio you DO NOT have to buy an Xbox to play them. You can't say that for either Nintendo or Sony. Most people here seem to have high end gaming PCs so they never miss new Xbox games anyway. It's pretty cool that no one misses anything.

How about I name another difference. When studios get bought by Sony they tend begin to grow into world class studios that put out goats on a consistent basis. If not being on pc is the trade off for studios getting the chances to make games like tlou 1&2, ghosts of Tsushima, Spider-Man, and god of war then I think it’s an ok trade off. Let me know how, what was the last Xbox published game to come out again? Gears 5? How’s that doing on pc? Oh dead? Master chief collection? Oh kind of dead. Forza? Oh yes peaked at 25k and in a week is down to 20k with 13k concurrent being the average. Seems like pc players are kind of indifferent to ms games coming out. Wonder why.
 
  • Fire
Reactions: dcmk7

Azurro

Member
Jun 11, 2018
2,296
4,096
450
People have different opinions. Like I said God of War comparisons from 2005 to 2018 is a much better value to me but if you prefer the remake route good on you. You feel the same way about Spiderman and Last of Us redos as well? Only fanboys prefer to play their games updated for no extra charge after all.

Of course you are entitled to your opinion, that doesn't preclude it from being silly and informed by fanboyism. A complete remake on the new generation, from a technical perspective and assuming a good implementation, is simply better than running the same older generation game just with a resolution and framerate boost.

It's odd this attitude that Demon's Souls somehow is not a very high quality and appealing game for core gamers just because it's a remake, especially given that it was the most obscure one that a majority of the Soulsborne userbase never played.
 
  • Fire
Reactions: dcmk7

plasmawave

Member
Aug 28, 2013
11,259
430
640
You yourself stated 'new game outside of gameplay' meaning the same game with better graphics and a $70 price tag. If you think that is a better value than playing games you already own at higher framerate and resolution for free that's fine.

There are people out there who prefer to not repurchase a game they already played that simply looks better. If you are talking God of War 2018 vs God of War 2005 you'd have a better argument. No one said Demon Souls is bad it just isn't new just like the old games on the Xbox.
OG Demon's Souls doesn't have online functionality anymore.
 

Jokerevo

Banned
May 30, 2020
396
568
310
Demon's blew me away because I had a direct reference...i platted the ps3 version twice and couldn't believe the new lick of paint it got. It made me realise that if it was possible to uprate the gfx while retaining the engine...that many Sony IP could receive the same treatment...
 

RaySoft

Member
May 31, 2013
1,067
1,684
760
Oslo, Norway
Like I said .. it’s a marathon , one MS. Is gonna win btw on performance.
How can they win on performance when all they try to do is introducing a cheaper PC?
They changed their SDK to prioritize parity, not performance.
Sony is the one who really has the best opportunity to squeeze every last drop of the hardware since they only have to focus one set spec.
 

zcaa0g

Member
Sep 3, 2018
1,379
1,962
405
Demon's Souls is a complete remake, the best looking game around for a lot of people. To compare that to a software hack to increase framerate and resolution to old games is silly, it's not comparable and something only a fanboy would say.

It's also closer to falling in the category of "backwards compatibility" than a new game. Surely even the likes of you can comprehend that.
 

DarkMage619

Member
Jun 19, 2004
3,006
5,216
1,635
Of course you are entitled to your opinion, that doesn't preclude it from being silly and informed by fanboyism. A complete remake on the new generation, from a technical perspective and assuming a good implementation, is simply better than running the same older generation game just with a resolution and framerate boost.

It's odd this attitude that Demon's Souls somehow is not a very high quality and appealing game for core gamers just because it's a remake, especially given that it was the most obscure one that a majority of the Soulsborne userbase never played.
Point out where I said it wasn't a quality title. I simply think it isn't a great value if we are talking about being wowed by the next generation of hardware. Outside of graphics what is next gen about Demon Souls? I think it would look just as amazing on the PS4 especially compared to PS3. At least with God of War 2018 it's a new experience AND it has better graphics than 2005's game. This is worthy of charging customers for.

Using this generations hardware to run last gen games in ways they were never seen before strikes me as more impressive in the console space than simply taking an old games and making it look better. Especially when some of those updates to older games can be done WITHOUT developer intervention and without charging the gamer to play the same game again. Nintendo regularly charges customers for the same games but maybe saying something about that makes you a fanboy too. Who knows.
 

Azurro

Member
Jun 11, 2018
2,296
4,096
450
It's also closer to falling in the category of "backwards compatibility" than a new game. Surely even the likes of you can comprehend that.

Can you explain how a new native title for a next generation console falls in the category of backwards compatibility? Help me out. :)
 
  • Like
Reactions: VFXVeteran

VFXVeteran

Professional Victim (Vetted)
Nov 5, 2019
5,460
12,417
805
...soo PS6? What timeframe do you next envision the generational leap we've been clawing for?
I don't think it's going to be that simple anymore. I think we'll literally see the gradual increases from gen to gen. Full on RT is where the buck stops (that's where film is now). And we aren't going to go from a gen that can barely do RT (like now) to implementing RT fully with no more rasterizing using screenspace tricks.
 

VFXVeteran

Professional Victim (Vetted)
Nov 5, 2019
5,460
12,417
805
2021 Best Visual Awards
Nah. Definitely FS2020 set the new realtime application to beat. And I don't think everyone will be able to. MS has oodles of cash that most studios don't have. The amount of work that went into that sim is simply mind-boggling even for me. I wish I had time to go over in detail all the things they adopted from film that's never been seen before in a videogame. It's literally on another level from what we've seen.
 

VFXVeteran

Professional Victim (Vetted)
Nov 5, 2019
5,460
12,417
805
Show me one game in 2009 that looks as good as demon souls (ps5) , not even a single series X or PS5 game look as good as demon souls (ps5) currently. No biased or fanboyism here.
I actually think that Ghost of Tushima looks better than Demon Souls. Demon Souls has the best texture detail of any game right now. I give it that. It's using a 3 layer approach for texture detail and it looks amazing. However, that's it's only main strength right now. The lighting is it's weakest link because it uses fixed lightmaps and non-shadow casting light sources (except the outside light source and the built-in magic symbol the character carries). The art direction is also on the weak side as there is very little variation of color schemes for the different environments. The PBR materials are OK but they aren't stellar.

Ghost's biggest problem is it's texture detail due to the limitation of the PS4 which is so unfortunate because it exceeds in several other rendering aspects like FX (beautiful Houdini simulations baked into their smoke rendering), excellent tricks for global illumination, heavy use of proxy geometry for creating great shadows for foliage to get around doing it the hard way and stunning art direction and atmosphere. If they did a remake of GoT for the PS5 with higher res textures and normal maps, and better skin shaders, it would rank one of the best looking PS games ever made. The team did an incredible job with the limited hardware they had to develop on. I might do a full impression of both games if I find the time. I'm very impressed with GoT though.
 
  • Like
Reactions: ColdAfternoon

Hobbygaming

has been asked to post in 'Grounded' mode.
Sep 30, 2019
5,035
9,873
590
You yourself stated 'new game outside of gameplay' meaning the same game with better graphics and a $70 price tag. If you think that is a better value than playing games you already own at higher framerate and resolution for free that's fine.

There are people out there who prefer to not repurchase a game they already played that simply looks better. If you are talking God of War 2018 vs God of War 2005 you'd have a better argument. No one said Demon Souls is bad it just isn't new just like the old games on the Xbox.
A remade game with all new assets shouldn't be compared to resolution and framerate increases in older titles
 
Last edited:

dcmk7

Member
Mar 25, 2020
1,035
3,362
360
Point out where I said it wasn't a quality title. I simply think it isn't a great value if we are talking about being wowed by the next generation of hardware. Outside of graphics what is next gen about Demon Souls? I think it would look just as amazing on the PS4 especially compared to PS3. At least with God of War 2018 it's a new experience AND it has better graphics than 2005's game. This is worthy of charging customers for.

Using this generations hardware to run last gen games in ways they were never seen before strikes me as more impressive in the console space than simply taking an old games and making it look better. Especially when some of those updates to older games can be done WITHOUT developer intervention and without charging the gamer to play the same game again. Nintendo regularly charges customers for the same games but maybe saying something about that makes you a fanboy too. Who knows.
A silly point.

I have enjoyed playing last gen games optimised on the XSX. It's impressive undoubtedly.

But I am pretty bored of that I want something new right now, even if it was something had played to death waaay back in the day like Project Gotham Racing. A full remake with updated graphics and solid framerate I would definitely pay £70.

Would be a joy on the XSX.

Demon's Souls was a new experience for me, hadn't played the original, assume thats true for a lot of players who picked it up on PS5. If they felt like you, they wouldn't buy it right? So the people who bought it (and didn't find it too hard) must have been a new experience for them or they consiously wanted to double dip. I wouldn't be too concerned about them.

I really enjoyed that next gen experience a lot.

Wish I can have a proper next gen experience on the XSX now.
 
Last edited:

S0ULZB0URNE

Member
Jan 27, 2020
3,304
4,161
620
Nah. Definitely FS2020 set the new realtime application to beat. And I don't think everyone will be able to. MS has oodles of cash that most studios don't have. The amount of work that went into that sim is simply mind-boggling even for me. I wish I had time to go over in detail all the things they adopted from film that's never been seen before in a videogame. It's literally on another level from what we've seen.
Demon's Souls did win some best awards.

FS2020 is a different type of game/experience and shouldn't be compared but yes it's special with capable hardware.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Hobbygaming

VFXVeteran

Professional Victim (Vetted)
Nov 5, 2019
5,460
12,417
805
Demon's Souls did win some best awards.

FS2020 is a different type of game/experience and shouldn't be compared but yes it's special with capable hardware.
Well, you *can* compare them if you are talking about graphics technology. As long as it's a realtime application (I don't consider FS2020 a game), the tech could be compared. For example, it would be awesome if any game would take the texture synthesis technology in FS2020. That was invented several years ago in film and it's the first time that I know of ever being used. To compute a procedural noise in realtime and synthesize it into a MIP-mapped texture is incredible. The other aspect is a true light propagation through a true 3D volume texture. Several games could use this tech. Over abundance of ambient occlusion for literally every object in the world is sorely needed in games today. Streaming of large datasets and textures in the Gbytes (ala UE5 demo) is also something games could use to enhance the graphical fidelity. I could go on and on with the tech used that any gaming company would love to have from FS2020.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Hobbygaming

J_Gamer.exe

Member
May 4, 2020
776
3,722
410
Nice get out clause, another easy excuse to put all blame onto the tools...

Kind of at odds with what the dirt 5 dev said.

Transitioning development to a new console platform, like Xbox Series X, is usually very painful. You have to deal with new tools, new workflows, new ways of thinking.

This time around the team at Xbox brought me a new toolset called the Game Development Kit, which they already had up and running on Xbox One.

This meant that we could make the transition much earlier. In fact, we started doing the groundwork for Xbox Series X development long before we even received the hardware. This kind of thinking from Xbox allowed us to get a real head-start on next-gen development, so after receiving our early Xbox Series X hardware, we were up and running really quickly.

For me, the most important thing in making a videogame is the relationships. Working with Xbox, is a partnership – the team at Xbox is committed to helping us make a great videogame and they’ve shown that to me again and again. That means being open and honest about our experiences; what we’ve loved and perhaps even what we’ve found difficult in development has had meaningful, visible impact on the updates that I get for the tools for Series X. (Shout out to our development partner at Xbox, Richard Hackett! Thanks Rich!)

I’ve never worked on a console launch where, while we’re still months away from release, the tools have been this mature, this stable, this easy to work with.

Which to we believe or are somehow both true? Maybe they are mature and easy to work with but it differs depending on the dev experience etc.....?

He says Sony were more ready so it was easier to get the performance on ps5, all are in infancy.

So that doesn't mean they threw it up on the sx or left performance on the table, it could mean OK in 3 months ps5 is doing well, thats done, Series x needed 4 months to get to similar optimisation level.

Either way dirt 5 dev was very happy with the tools.
 
Last edited:
  • Like
Reactions: Hobbygaming

Hobbygaming

has been asked to post in 'Grounded' mode.
Sep 30, 2019
5,035
9,873
590
Nice get out clause, another easy excuse to put all blame onto the tools...

Kind of at odds with what the dirt 5 dev said.



Which to we believe or are somehow both true? Maybe they are mature and easy to work with but it differs depending on the dev experience etc.....?

He says Sony were more ready so it was easier to get the performance on ps5, all are in infancy.

So that doesn't mean they threw it up on the sx or left performance on the table, it could mean OK in 3 months ps5 is doing well, thats done, Series x needed 4 months to get to similar optimisation level.

Either way dirt 5 dev was very happy with the tools.
I think it goes back to what Mark Cerny said. It takes more work but developers can better utilize the PS5 hardware when they start tackling the geometry engine

But for now with their tools being similar to the PS4 it gives them ease of development
 

DarkMage619

Member
Jun 19, 2004
3,006
5,216
1,635
A silly point.

I have enjoyed playing last gen games optimised on the XSX. It's impressive undoubtedly.

But I am pretty bored of that I want something new right now, even if it was something had played to death waaay back in the day like Project Gotham Racing. A full remake with updated graphics and solid framerate I would definitely pay £70.

Would be a joy on the XSX.

Demon's Souls was a new experience for me, hadn't played the original, assume thats true for a lot of players who picked it up on PS5. If they felt like you, they wouldn't buy it right? So the people who bought it (and didn't find it too hard) must have been a new experience for them or they consiously wanted to double dip. I wouldn't be too concerned about them.

I really enjoyed that next gen experience a lot.

Wish I can have a proper next gen experience on the XSX now.
You say it's a silly point and proceed to explain how Demon Souls remake is a next gen experience although the game exists on the PS3. It has no 'next gen' features outside of better graphics which the PS4 could probably come close to replicating. Your main reason for enjoying the game seems to revolve around the fact you did not play it before. I guess anyone enjoying the updates to frame rate and resolution on other games those people also have not played do not count I guess. Not everyone has played everything. There is no clear definition of 'next gen'.

If a company is going to take the time to produce a game I'd simply prefer the God of War 2018 treatment. I have not seen anyone explain why that is not the superior way to remake a game over just a graphical face-lift. If Demon Souls had new gameplay mechanics and story it would easily avoid any comparison to what's being done with some back compatible titles. Games like Gears 5 and Forza 4 on the XSX look just as impressive and I don't believe MS charged for those updates.

If the content of the game is identical upping the resolution, adding HDR, doubling the frame rate, faster loading times, improved texture filtering and NOT making me pay for it was a major wow factor this gen so far. Things like quick resume, and smart delivery really improved the quality of life on a console. I'd love to see a platform holders resources go into making lots of games better not just one but different strokes for different folks.
 

Azurro

Member
Jun 11, 2018
2,296
4,096
450
If a company is going to take the time to produce a game I'd simply prefer the God of War 2018 treatment. I have not seen anyone explain why that is not the superior way to remake a game over just a graphical face-lift. If Demon Souls had new gameplay mechanics and story it would easily avoid any comparison to what's being done with some back compatible titles. Games like Gears 5 and Forza 4 on the XSX look just as impressive and I don't believe MS charged for those updates.

Because God of War 2018 is a sequel, not a remake. Gears 5 and Forza 4 also were not remakes, they were just updated to use the new SDK and increased the settings in the properties file. I know you are not dumb, you are just pretending to not understand basic concepts because you have to discredit Demon's Souls due to your fanboyism.
 

dcmk7

Member
Mar 25, 2020
1,035
3,362
360
You say it's a silly point and proceed to explain how Demon Souls remake is a next gen experience although the game exists on the PS3. It has no 'next gen' features outside of better graphics which the PS4 could probably come close to replicating. Your main reason for enjoying the game seems to revolve around the fact you did not play it before. I guess anyone enjoying the updates to frame rate and resolution on other games those people also have not played do not count I guess. Not everyone has played everything. There is no clear definition of 'next gen'.

If a company is going to take the time to produce a game I'd simply prefer the God of War 2018 treatment. I have not seen anyone explain why that is not the superior way to remake a game over just a graphical face-lift. If Demon Souls had new gameplay mechanics and story it would easily avoid any comparison to what's being done with some back compatible titles. Games like Gears 5 and Forza 4 on the XSX look just as impressive and I don't believe MS charged for those updates.

If the content of the game is identical upping the resolution, adding HDR, doubling the frame rate, faster loading times, improved texture filtering and NOT making me pay for it was a major wow factor this gen so far. Things like quick resume, and smart delivery really improved the quality of life on a console. I'd love to see a platform holders resources go into making lots of games better not just one but different strokes for different folks.
Maybe you don't understand why Demon's Souls was remade.

It is one of the most important games in recent history, that's not even an exaggeration, since it created a new genre. It is often neglected and overlooked by Dark Souls, which improved on its predecessor on every facet.
But Demon's Souls was the more influential title and have just read that it even inspired the design of the PS4.

The title on PS3 wasn't experienced by many at all, to give a truthful remake is what fans craved and were given. Its nice that Sony listened.. hopefully they are listening now for the Silent Hill reboot/remake.

If it could have been done on the PS4 I'm sure it would been. Since it isn't there, it leads me to believe it wasn't possible. Unless have some proof?

Since super fast loading between deaths & travelling is making use of the SSD.
Assets, models and sound have been completely redone specifically for PS5, so streaming those in might be too much for the PS4 without some comprises.

I'm glad they didn't and developed it with only one SKU and console in mind as the results are fantastic. The 92 metacritic score suggests they have done a great job too.

On the Xbox side of things, yeh, Smart delivery has been useful with the last gen titles.
Dont personally use Quick Resume, as I have a habit of closing each game down.

But in a new console those features don't really excite me. I purchased next gen consoles to ultimately play new games and in Demon's Souls, it managed to stratch that itch.

For Xbox Series S/X to not have any launch titles, I get why Smart Delivery and Quick Resume has become more important. And seemingly in your case more important than actual next gen games.

Let's hope there are next gen games for both soon.
 
Last edited:

mxbison

Member
Dec 9, 2020
634
801
285
Noone's impressed by anything anymore, sorry.

Gamers just seem jaded and horribly entitled to me, values seem all out of whack.

I mean, the selling point for PS5/XSX was pretty much "look how fast these old games load"....

Sorry for not being impressed by that.
 

TonyK

Member
Aug 13, 2020
917
1,488
400
That assumption only would solve the problem if Sony would not continue working in their tools. When I always read these type of comments about Xbox tools to be improved, people talks as if Sony has stopped working on theirs. No, both will continue improving, however, Sony has started with advantage. Those are facts. That gap takes years to be surpassed, as X360/PS3 generation showed to us.
 

Flutta

My tears. Exclusive to gamepass. Forever.
Dec 6, 2020
234
396
345
That assumption only would solve the problem if Sony would not continue working in their tools. When I always read these type of comments about Xbox tools to be improved, people talks as if Sony has stopped working on theirs. No, both will continue improving, however, Sony has started with advantage. Those are facts. That gap takes years to be surpassed, as X360/PS3 generation showed to us.
In the end it wont matter really, PS5 will continue to outsell Xbox in both HW and SW and that fact alone wont change this gen or the next. Having a slight higher res on some games is laughable for ”The most powerfull” console 😂.
 

ZywyPL

Member
Nov 27, 2018
5,333
9,194
685

Lat's assume the infamous tools are really the case, the question is when will they be finally ready? When will the results start to appear? And what will happen with all the games released prior the updated tools, will they automatically run better, or will the devs need to go back to those titles and patch them one by one (which most likely won't happen)? What I'm trying to say is, the longer it takes the worse it gets, as more and more games suffer, and like I said, I don;t expect the devs to do the patching a second time.
 

xiseerht

Member
Nov 25, 2015
282
425
400
Yeah , I have been blown away by the faster loading times on the SSD, the auto hdr , the 120 FPS and just the overall look at 4K. Most of the BC games I play feel like a brand new game now.
 
  • Like
Reactions: turtlepowa
Feb 15, 2021
183
193
210
Maybe you don't understand why Demon's Souls was remade.

It is one of the most important games in recent history, that's not even an exaggeration, since it created a new genre. It is often neglected and overlooked by Dark Souls, which improved on its predecessor on every facet.
But Demon's Souls was the more influential title and have just read that it even inspired the design of the PS4.

The title on PS3 wasn't experienced by many at all, to give a truthful remake is what fans craved and were given. Its nice that Sony listened.. hopefully they are listening now for the Silent Hill reboot/remake.

If it could have been done on the PS4 I'm sure it would been. Since it isn't there, it leads me to believe it wasn't possible. Unless have some proof?

Since super fast loading between deaths & travelling is making use of the SSD.
Assets, models and sound have been completely redone specifically for PS5, so streaming those in might be too much for the PS4 without some comprises.

I'm glad they didn't and developed it with only one SKU and console in mind as the results are fantastic. The 92 metacritic score suggests they have done a great job too.

On the Xbox side of things, yeh, Smart delivery has been useful with the last gen titles.
Dont personally use Quick Resume, as I have a habit of closing each game down.

But in a new console those features don't really excite me. I purchased next gen consoles to ultimately play new games and in Demon's Souls, it managed to stratch that itch.

For Xbox Series S/X to not have any launch titles, I get why Smart Delivery and Quick Resume has become more important. And seemingly in your case more important than actual next gen games.

Let's hope there are next gen games for both soon.
Interesting how did it inspire design for the PS4?
 

VFXVeteran

Professional Victim (Vetted)
Nov 5, 2019
5,460
12,417
805
You say it's a silly point and proceed to explain how Demon Souls remake is a next gen experience although the game exists on the PS3. It has no 'next gen' features outside of better graphics which the PS4 could probably come close to replicating.

That's sortof an unfair statement. You can't really judge a 'next-gen' game by how different it plays from it's previous gen. Most games coming out this current gen is not going to have wildly varying gameplay from the previous generation. Gameplay usually stays static from generation to generation for the same type of game. For example, Elder Ring will definitely have the same combat mechanic as Demon Souls or any of the other Souls. That is what made the game a highlight for gamers. We shouldn't expect that formula to be radically different.

There is no clear definition of 'next gen'.

I think what gamers here consider next-gen is a new game coming out that isn't released to last gen consoles. Gameplay is usually excluded from this consideration.
 
  • Thoughtful
Reactions: dcmk7

Ozzy Onya A2Z

Member
Apr 16, 2012
9,849
3,803
990
Melbourne, Australia
If you're not already impressed with 4K 60 fps games on a 60"+ inch screen I don't know what to tell you. Buttery smooth, fast loading and in HDR isn't impressing you? You need to lower your standards FFS.

Will it keep improving in terms of dev pipelines, graphics, AI, sound, immersion etc? Hell yes but to say you're not enjoying your next gen games already seems weird to me. I'm loving it. YMMV.
 
  • Like
Reactions: dcmk7

DarkMage619

Member
Jun 19, 2004
3,006
5,216
1,635
Because God of War 2018 is a sequel, not a remake. Gears 5 and Forza 4 also were not remakes, they were just updated to use the new SDK and increased the settings in the properties file. I know you are not dumb, you are just pretending to not understand basic concepts because you have to discredit Demon's Souls due to your fanboyism.
Fanboyism against Demon Souls? What are you saying? I said numerous times it's a good game. The PS3 version got praise didn't it? The same game gets the same praise. Content wise there is nothing distinctive about Demon Souls PS5 vs PS3 JUST like there was nothing distinctive between Gears 5 before and after its graphical updates between X1 and XSX. Just one cost money to players and The other did not. Both are graphical showpieces. God of War was more of a reboot to the entire franchise seeing how it had been dormant for a while. I think that's why it wasn't called part 4. It didn't play anything like the other games. Something that should be praised and something Demon souls could have used. If you prefer remasters good on you I prefer new content like I said different strokes and all that.

That's sortof an unfair statement. You can't really judge a 'next-gen' game by how different it plays from it's previous gen. Most games coming out this current gen is not going to have wildly varying gameplay from the previous generation. Gameplay usually stays static from generation to generation for the same type of game. For example, Elder Ring will definitely have the same combat mechanic as Demon Souls or any of the other Souls. That is what made the game a highlight for gamers. We shouldn't expect that formula to be radically different.



I think what gamers here consider next-gen is a new game coming out that isn't released to last gen consoles. Gameplay is usually excluded from this consideration.
Now this is an interesting point. Is the general consensus that next gen simply means that it isn't available on other consoles? Doesn't that mean Demon Souls is NOT next gen because a PS3 version exists? I heard numerous times that this generation is about ushering in new gameplay experiences because of the SSD and new and better CPU/GPU. I don't even think Demon Souls needed to be wildly different just different like my God of War example. It's still God of War(kinda) and it probably would run on the PS3 with a graphical downgrade but it was new and fresh something I'd expect at a minimum for a new generational take.

In the end Demon Souls is out and if you haven't played it before its new to you and that's perhaps all that matters. It certainly has impressive graphics so at the least it's a technical showpiece for the PS5.

I am thinking the wow factor will most likely come from the new R&C game in June. No one will accuse that game of recycling anything AND it appears to have new gameplay features not seen before. Things I'd expect when talking about next gen. Looking forward to that.
 

VFXVeteran

Professional Victim (Vetted)
Nov 5, 2019
5,460
12,417
805
I am thinking the wow factor will most likely come from the new R&C game in June. No one will accuse that game of recycling anything AND it appears to have new gameplay features not seen before. Things I'd expect when talking about next gen. Looking forward to that.
But R&C will still have the same core game mechanics like shooting, jumping, etc.. I don't think it will be more graphically 'wow' than Demon Souls though. I'm thinking more of the lines of how people felt MM was.

I put Demon Souls in the same realm as the RE remake games (RE2/3). In that sense, DS is definitely a true next-gen exclusive title (from the console's perspective).
 
Last edited:
  • Like
Reactions: dcmk7