Why so many Trump supporters are OK with the president's lies

Jun 23, 2010
4,115
212
575
#1
Came across a very interesting article that attempts to explain why Trump supporters are OK with his unprecedented dishonesty. I strongly suggest reading the entire thing. It's based on two studies one of which was recently featured in a journal. It's a fascinating look at what drives the dishonesty and the allowance of it.

As of mid-February, the Washington Post's fact-checking staff had tallied 8,718 false or misleading public statements by President Donald Trump since he assumed office. Yet his popularity, while low overall, remains very high among his base—a demographic dominated by evangelical Christians, who are taught lying is a sin.

Why are they so willing to discard the core principle of not bearing false witness? New research suggests the Ninth Commandment is subject to amendment when you hold an authoritarian mindset.
While relatively few Americans find it acceptable, "these results suggest that right-wing individuals are more tolerant to the spreading of misinformation by politicians," write Jonas De keersmaecker and Arne Roets of Ghent University in Belgium.
The results provide new evidence that our current political polarization reflects deep-seated differences that extend far beyond individual issues. "Right-wing authoritarianism captures the tendency to defer to legitimized authority," the researchers write. If, in your mind, your leader can do no wrong, it follows that he can lie with impunity.
https://psmag.com/news/why-so-many-trump-supporters-are-ok-with-the-presidents-lies
 
Sep 4, 2018
2,440
2,689
255
#2
every president lies. the media lies. does nobody remember the Iraq War?

they lied about weapons of mass destruction and that we should all be scared because a terrorist event can and will happen at any time. NPR changed their phrasing to include "enhanced interrogations" to go along with the W admin's torture policy, which was then continued by Obama. guess NPR and the NYT has the same "tendency to defer to legitimized authority" which according to some researchers are only possessed by the right.

amazing how nobody on the left is like this. nobody defers to authority in the whole billion dollar Democratic political machine. nope! lol give me a fucking break

see i stack up lying bout WMDs for a decade next to the latest Trump lie about him, which is usually some silly boast about being the best smartest person in the world, i really dgaf. Obama said the first thing he would do was shut down Gitmo and was adamant about it and he lied about that. he said he would be whistleblower friendly and he lied about that. yet we are supposed to pretend this lying thing is brand new because of Trump, like every other problem in America.
 
Last edited:
Jun 20, 2018
1,942
2,007
240
#3
Came across a very interesting article that attempts to explain why Trump supporters are OK with his unprecedented dishonesty.
"unprecedented" well i would argue two years of media garbage makes it pretty hard to determine what is true or isnt about what trump is alleged to have done or lied about.



 
Last edited:

cryptoadam

... and he cannot lie
Feb 21, 2018
3,830
3,049
410
#4
You know who lied a lot? USSR communists. What is this bullshit about right wing authoritarians, left wing communists/socialists/authoritarians lie just as much.

People have congnitive disonence, why do so many on the left inlcuding celeberties, journalists and the entirety of ERA believe the words of Nathan Stolen Valor Phillips even to this day with all the video evidence. Because people believe what they want to believe.

Still waiting for Trump to declare himself emperor. If anything its the Dems who are showing their asses trying to change the EC and pushing for impeachment with no evidence and running kangaroo investigations to kick out the legally elected president of the USA.
 
Apr 18, 2018
7,842
12,538
555
USA
dunpachi.com
#5
For one, not all of the things labelled as "lies" are actually lies. For instance, Trump said that Obama was wiretapping his campaign and he turned out to be correct even though the media continued to call it a lie. So let's be careful about setting a false narrative that all supporters "are okay" with the president's lies. In many cases, they disagree with the media or pundits (whoever is leveling the accusation) that it is a lie at all.

For two, you can support someone while condemning specific behavior. Politics are not a zero-sum game where 100% of your party's goals must be met and 0% of your opponents' goals are met. The same applies to politicians: you can have politicians who are great at foreign policy and economic policy (like Trump) but also are disliked by the opposing party and say controversial things in public (also Trump).

As far as Trump goes, he lies less than our last Republican president, W. Bush. I'll take that as an improvement. It doesn't justify it when he does lie, but these are politicians we're talking about.

The people who would like to hold Trump accountable for lies don't often apply this same spotlight to their own party, so I would normally chalk this up as... what did the Democrats call it? "Arguing in bad faith"?
 
Last edited:
Oct 2, 2017
30
19
110
#6
I don't personally like Trump and think he is a pretty bad leader. The only time I root him on is when he takes on far left types who want to push identity politics and use rhetoric to make the US overall a weaker and more polarized country.

I also think he is partially right about the media trying to sway the population by publishing misleading headlines, omitting facts, and using outrage to spin the narrative in one direction.
 
Aug 30, 2014
6,684
1,663
385
#8
The media lies.

Trump just does Trump. His numbers may be a bit off sometimes, but anyone who is paying attention knows what he means and isn't worried that it wasnt really a mile high stack of burgers.

Many of his lies are just bad interpretations of what he said in the first place. It's easy to call someone a liar if you intentionally misrepresent what they are saying and then turn to biased sources to disprove them.

I'm far more concerned by the cesspool that is media. They'd paint Trump as a liar no matter what he said with articles full of 'actually'.

I'm also far more concerned by lies the media and the left perpetuate. Lies about race and gender, lies about the world ending in 12 years. Lies about the border, lies about economics. Lies about liberty. Lies about guns. Lies about Russia. Lies about kids in hats.
 
Last edited:
May 10, 2009
2,802
350
665
#9
I think compared to certain institutions and media, who Trump sets himself opposed to, he’s a breath of fresh air. It also helps that the institutions saying he’s immoral, corrupt, and a liar are also themselves immoral, corrupt, and liars. What moral authority in this country can condemn Trump without hypocrisy? The New York Times? The Washington Post? Vox? Vice? Clinton? Obama? The Congress?
 
Jul 22, 2018
872
442
340
#11
Prop 47, passed by Democrats in California, was referred to its supporters as the Safe Neighborhoods and Schools Act. What it really did was reduce criminal sentences and did not make neighborhoods safer. In fact, it’s referred to criminals as a get out of jail free card. So yeah, about those lies and the people who believe them...
 
Last edited:
#12
When they are constantly lying about the president, it's going to be harder to convince the supporters about him being a liar, even if it's true.
Whether you like it or not, the truth is, it doesn't matter what he says, what matter is who he is up against, political narratives are always about naming and knowing the enemy regardless which side you pick.
 
Aug 30, 2018
507
784
230
#13
Because via his actions we can tell he actually cares about this country, and places our needs ahead of the rest of the world. This by itself, is enough for him to be the best President since Regan.

And can you blame us for not trusting what the media deems to be a lie when they pull this crap?

"Politico, for instance, was slammed on social media for declaring that Trump’s claim that “one in three women is sexually assaulted on the long journey north” to America was only partly true -- because it's actually 31 percent."
 
Last edited:
Dec 15, 2011
2,164
3,472
535
#14
#alreadyestablishednarrative

When faced with facts that don't fit the narrative, just double down on the narrative.
2019 has not been a good year for the media so far. And it really doesn't look like it's going to get any better.

Employing repetition, deflection and hypocrisy is not an effective solution.
 
Dec 1, 2017
1,638
735
240
#19
His lies, to me, are on another level. they aren't the normal lies where there are certainly things that the people do not need to know. He is on a pathological level.

He crosses the threshold in everyway for me.

He is an insecure pathetic man with the mind of a 5 year old. When people defend him, it baffles me and changes my outlook on life, and makes me doubly consider the people I trust in life.

But have fun.
 
Aug 30, 2018
507
784
230
#20
His lies, to me, are on another level. they aren't the normal lies where there are certainly things that the people do not need to know. He is on a pathological level.

He crosses the threshold in everyway for me.

He is an insecure pathetic man with the mind of a 5 year old. When people defend him, it baffles me and changes my outlook on life, and makes me doubly consider the people I trust in life.

But have fun.
TDS ALERT. TDS ALERT. I REPEAT, THIS IS A TDS ALERT.
 

Tesseract

Crushed by Thanos
Dec 7, 2008
30,599
1,089
1,000
#21
His lies, to me, are on another level. they aren't the normal lies where there are certainly things that the people do not need to know. He is on a pathological level.

He crosses the threshold in everyway for me.

He is an insecure pathetic man with the mind of a 5 year old. When people defend him, it baffles me and changes my outlook on life, and makes me doubly consider the people I trust in life.

But have fun.
can you be specific?
 
Mar 3, 2010
27,445
232
690
#23
It's because they believe those lies and take them at face value. And if they are proven to be incontrovertibly false, then they didn't matter to begin with, or his followers deflect to another politician and the media in general.

It's a common thing people do, in any context. We aren't as rational and unbiased as we like to think we are.
 
Last edited:
Dec 29, 2018
136
153
160
#25
Every politician lies, but very few are as truthful as Donald Trump.

I find him to be a loathsome figure, and I wouldn't vote for him, but I'll slit my wrists before I join the choir of consensus-worshiping liberal pedants politifact-ing their way to an ethos. Grow up. The American newsmedia really are a pack of professionally dishonest hacks despised by the general population, national boundaries really are the only thing that can protect labor markets in an imperialist system, globalization really did obliterate American life at every level beginning with the rustbelt and swirling outwards, and the political class really is composed entirely of un-indicted felons too venal and self-serving to represent the general public. The President of the United States of America is dropping bomb like this and we're supposed to give a shit about his sources? Are you fucking mental?
 
Jul 26, 2009
1,282
267
650
#28
Jun 23, 2010
4,115
212
575
#29
I love the pathetic excuse of the media lies. Be more specific. It's a pathetic cop-out because it's a generalization. Who is the media exactly? Be very specific of who you're speaking of. If you need to generalize hundreds of organizations with tens of thousands of employees to one very dishonest man then your argument is BS. Pick one politician or media organization (which still isn't even a fair comparison) then show me where all their lies are documented.
 
Jan 8, 2018
669
758
210
#30
I love the pathetic excuse of the media lies. Be more specific. It's a pathetic cop-out because it's a generalization. Who is the media exactly? Be very specific of who you're speaking of. If you need to generalize hundreds of organizations with tens of thousands of employees to one very dishonest man then your argument is BS. Pick one politician or media organization (which still isn't even a fair comparison) then show me where all their lies are documented.
One quick glance at your post history is all i need to know. You are obsessed with Trump man, let it go. Go outside and get some fresh air. Trump Won the presidency in 2016 and you are bitching like all liberals 3 year laters, LET IT GO!!! As far as lying goes why are you not all over Bill Clinton's dick? He wasn't called slick willie for no reason you know. Everyone lies, YOU LIE, I LIE, YOUR MOM LIES so why are you focusing on Trump only?
 
Likes: Tahj
Dec 29, 2018
136
153
160
#31
Whataboutism is in full force in this thread, jeez.
"Whataboutism" here referring to the practice of introducing relevant context to fully explain the significance of a certain fact or claim. Jesus, no wonder people hate you. I know at the current historical moment you're incapable of hearing this, but I'll say it anyway for posterity: pathologizing your political opponents is the intellectual province of guys who think cultural Marxism is ruining videogames. This kind of knowledge comes cheap, which is the people who accumulate it stay broke and stupid. And do I need to state the obvious? The couch is the site of ethnography, not politics. It's the opposite of insight; pure reaction. If politics were reducible to a taxonomy of impairments, Google would have sorted that shit out years ago.
 
Sep 4, 2018
2,440
2,689
255
#33
the media's entire job is "telling the truth". they are the "guardians of truth". they bank their entire careers on NOT lying. this is why journalists are "so important" and why comedians are "so important", they market themselves are truth tellers. why the need for truth tellers or "the 4th estate" at all if we should just assume, like naive babes, that all politicians tell the truth?

politicians, they lie, it is part of their job. we all know this. Hillary Clinton admitted there is a public stance and there is a private stance. it is just a matter of saying the right things to the right people get into power. they sign bills, they veto things, they go on trips to foreign countries. they fund-raise. they command armies. they don't sit around all day fact checking. they shouldn't.

that is the media's job. so it's extra pathetic when people say whataboutism. it is literally their only job.
 
Last edited:
Oct 31, 2018
13
14
80
#36
"Whataboutism" here referring to the practice of introducing relevant context to fully explain the significance of a certain fact or claim. Jesus, no wonder people hate you. I know at the current historical moment you're incapable of hearing this, but I'll say it anyway for posterity: pathologizing your political opponents is the intellectual province of guys who think cultural Marxism is ruining videogames. This kind of knowledge comes cheap, which is the people who accumulate it stay broke and stupid. And do I need to state the obvious? The couch is the site of ethnography, not politics. It's the opposite of insight; pure reaction. If politics were reducible to a taxonomy of impairments, Google would have sorted that shit out years ago.
Except, you see, no one introduced relevant context lol, its just plain and ol' whataboutism. But I guess you're just proving the article point, mama mia!
 
Likes: Horns
Jul 22, 2018
872
442
340
#37
Whataboutism is in full force in this thread, jeez.
Nah, it’s just that Democrat lies are far more destructive in regards to policy than Republican lies. Republicans didn’t pass Prop 47 that gave criminals more leeway. Democrats did. Democrats acted like the champion of African Americans, then passed the 3 Strikes law that landed even more African Americans in jail.

Manafort comitted tax fraud, but his crime doesn’t touch ordinary people like me and you. Democrats called Prop 47 the Safe Schools and Neighborhoods Act, but it was actually about reducing criminal sentencing and has increased crime across California.

You can complain all day about Trump lying, but for 99% of us, his lies haven’t made any of our lives worse.

In fact, liberal media has lied so much, that their followers are comitting hoaxes to try to make their narratives true and so the lie told by Smollett, and the doxxing of the Covington kids over a lie/false narrative, has not only done damage to race relations, but has even further divided this country.
 
Last edited:
Dec 29, 2018
136
153
160
#38
Except, you see, no one introduced relevant context lol, its just plain and ol' whataboutism. But I guess you're just proving the article point, mama mia!
You don't decide what is relevant. For one thing, you aren't remotely qualified. For another, the point of democratic politics is to investigate those questions empirically, a responsibility which you here abdicate. This is nothing less than putting your head in the sand, or in other words precisely what you accuse others of having done. I've largely outgrown giving a shit about hypocrisy but I can't figure out why anyone would elevate this to a point of principle. There are losing strategies and then there's knee-capping the quarterback, and for the life of me I would desperately prefer to believe that the liberal core actually does want to rule at some point but it's increasingly impossible to avoid the opposite conclusion: they'd rather have the lousy t-shirt.
 

Voost Kain

Daily Mail headline writer
Jun 6, 2015
1,545
414
435
#41
I don't understand why Democrats, even those that criticized Obama, are actually trying to pretend he didn't lie at all relatively compared to Trump, the media is pushing it like he's the first president who ever lied.

What's worse is a good chunk of the lies aren't lies, just poor statements or speeches interpreted wrongly, sometimes on purpose.

Trumps real lies haven't even caused major issues for the country, unlike Obama which sank infrastructure funds, gave more freedom then just bail-outs to banks, close multiple investigations, and causing the people to lose their doctors and have increased premiums, even for the poor, which they lied Obamacare would be "free" for.

Don't get me started on Bush and Clinton.
 
Apr 15, 2018
2,464
2,834
230
#43
I love the pathetic excuse of the media lies. Be more specific. It's a pathetic cop-out because it's a generalization. Who is the media exactly? Be very specific of who you're speaking of. If you need to generalize hundreds of organizations with tens of thousands of employees to one very dishonest man then your argument is BS. Pick one politician or media organization (which still isn't even a fair comparison) then show me where all their lies are documented.
Talk about moving goalposts.

"Trump lies and the media lies, but the media is more than one person so it's okay when they lie" fucking lol

Because they put party before country, winning before principles, and power before democracy.
Says the party that literally wants the country to fail so that their odds of winning the next election increases
 
Last edited:
Likes: Tahj
Jun 13, 2014
4,011
967
345
USA
#44
This is the apex of cognitive dissonance.

You've come across a difference of opinion that you cannot understand, so you naturally gravitate towards a dismissive explanation "they're all just right-wing authoritarians" in order to make yourself feel better.

The uncomfortable truth is that Obama and Clinton likewise told lies, many of which went well beyond Trump's braggadocio and instead actually had dire consequences on people's lives. And their supporters still defended them to the death, no matter how hotmic'ed or unequivocal their statements were.

This insular way of thinking is dangerous to our social health and those of us still on the left, despite how embarrassed we are of our side's toxic and childish behavior, need to start calling it out.
 
Apr 18, 2018
7,842
12,538
555
USA
dunpachi.com
#45
This is the apex of cognitive dissonance.

You've come across a difference of opinion that you cannot understand, so you naturally gravitate towards a dismissive explanation "they're all just right-wing authoritarians" in order to make yourself feel better.

The uncomfortable truth is that Obama and Clinton likewise told lies, many of which went well beyond Trump's braggadocio and instead actually had dire consequences on people's lives. And their supporters still defended them to the death, no matter how hotmic'ed or unequivocal their statements were.

This insular way of thinking is dangerous to our social health and those of us still on the left, despite how embarrassed we are of our side's toxic and childish behavior, need to start calling it out.
Well put.

The problem is that many people are stuck in the mire of "whose lies are worse?", and the obvious answer of course is the other guys' are worse. When you take a step back from your political affiliation and start reflecting on what your favored politicians are saying and doing, you should be able to back that behavior up with an ethical foundation. Or, you need to call it out and admit that's bad behavior. That is how our democracy works.

Democrats are going through their own Tea Party movement (fringe-but-popular movement within the party that begins sending things off the rails), and the Democrats are faring significantly worse than the Republicans did.

What needs to happen -- as many reasonable pundits have said in interviews and articles -- is the Democratic party needs to decide what it will be the party of. Will it be the party of impeachment? Will it be the party of worker's rights? Unfortunately, we are already on the campaign trail, so the splintering and in-fighting will ratchet up from here on. I expect 2020 to be quite a mess unless the party can get the whole team on the same page, because right now there's going to be a bloodbath at the primaries, and it will make the 2016 fallout from Bernie Sanders seem like a spat in comparison.
 
Jun 23, 2010
4,115
212
575
#46
Talk about moving goalposts.

"Trump lies and the media lies, but the media is more than one person so it's okay when they lie" fucking lol
Who said it was OK for the media to lie?

The term media is nebulous and means very different things to different people and can include a very large number of people and organizations. What I asked for wasn't that complex. Can anyone do this?

This is the apex of cognitive dissonance.

You've come across a difference of opinion that you cannot understand, so you naturally gravitate towards a dismissive explanation "they're all just right-wing authoritarians" in order to make yourself feel better.

The uncomfortable truth is that Obama and Clinton likewise told lies, many of which went well beyond Trump's braggadocio and instead actually had dire consequences on people's lives. And their supporters still defended them to the death, no matter how hotmic'ed or unequivocal their statements were.

This insular way of thinking is dangerous to our social health and those of us still on the left, despite how embarrassed we are of our side's toxic and childish behavior, need to start calling it out.
This is the part where you show me receipts. There are a lot of receipts you'll have to produce.
 
Last edited:
Mar 12, 2014
3,653
2,171
415
#47
Well put.

The problem is that many people are stuck in the mire of "whose lies are worse?", and the obvious answer of course is the other guys' are worse. When you take a step back from your political affiliation and start reflecting on what your favored politicians are saying and doing, you should be able to back that behavior up with an ethical foundation. Or, you need to call it out and admit that's bad behavior. That is how our democracy works.

Democrats are going through their own Tea Party movement (fringe-but-popular movement within the party that begins sending things off the rails), and the Democrats are faring significantly worse than the Republicans did.

What needs to happen -- as many reasonable pundits have said in interviews and articles -- is the Democratic party needs to decide what it will be the party of. Will it be the party of impeachment? Will it be the party of worker's rights? Unfortunately, we are already on the campaign trail, so the splintering and in-fighting will ratchet up from here on. I expect 2020 to be quite a mess unless the party can get the whole team on the same page, because right now there's going to be a bloodbath at the primaries, and it will make the 2016 fallout from Bernie Sanders seem like a spat in comparison.
I think the real problem is some people cannot accept that others simply peacefully disagree with their world views. We used to be a country of disagreeing with the position, but agreeing with the right to state it. Now its if you disagree with my position, you are x, y, z.
 
Oct 31, 2018
13
14
80
#48
You don't decide what is relevant. For one thing, you aren't remotely qualified. For another, the point of democratic politics is to investigate those questions empirically, a responsibility which you here abdicate. This is nothing less than putting your head in the sand, or in other words precisely what you accuse others of having done. I've largely outgrown giving a shit about hypocrisy but I can't figure out why anyone would elevate this to a point of principle. There are losing strategies and then there's knee-capping the quarterback, and for the life of me I would desperately prefer to believe that the liberal core actually does want to rule at some point but it's increasingly impossible to avoid the opposite conclusion: they'd rather have the lousy t-shirt.
Look I appreciate the effort and grand standing that goes in your answers, but the fact is that you dont seem to understand what whataboutism is. Most of what people people said in this thread is not wrong, but it doesn't rebut or adress the OP.
You want to argue with me but you do not understand the premise.

Sorry boy
 
Likes: Horns
Dec 29, 2018
136
153
160
#49
Look I appreciate the effort and grand standing that goes in your answers, but the fact is that you dont seem to understand what whataboutism is. Most of what people people said in this thread is not wrong, but it doesn't rebut or adress the OP.
You want to argue with me but you do not understand the premise.

Sorry boy
Disputing the premise is not the same as not understanding it. Here's what I know about whataboutism: that it's a vacant pejorative coined as a defense against hypocrisy; that it is, objectively, a way of disregarding inconvenient information to better soothe the egos of losers; that it reduces a domain of political dissent to something easier for morons to understand like "the Soviets Russians did it". I also know that the only reason you are so familiar with this unctuous artifact of liberal sophistry is because it's part of a whole lexicon of redbaiting jargon--along with "authoritarian" and "tankie"--dusted off in the wake of the election as a way for the malingering Democratic establishment to stave off their obvious come-to-Jesus moment.

https://trends.google.com/trends/explore?date=all&geo=US&q=whataboutism
https://trends.google.com/trends/explore?date=all&geo=US&q=tankie
https://trends.google.com/trends/explore?date=all&geo=US&q=authoritarian

Your whole ideology is fake news. Excuse me if I fail to respect the insight of someone who's worldview is newer than my car. I could fill this thread with words you don't understand and I wouldn't even have to go back farther than my birthday.
 
Last edited:
Apr 18, 2018
7,842
12,538
555
USA
dunpachi.com
#50
I think the real problem is some people cannot accept that others simply peacefully disagree with their world views. We used to be a country of disagreeing with the position, but agreeing with the right to state it. Now its if you disagree with my position, you are x, y, z.
We used to be a country of debate.

However, the natural consequence of post-modernism, nihilism, and deconstruction is that debate no longer matters. Since you can rip apart your opponent, label them, and deconstruct their own words to mean what you say they mean (i.e. some media coverage of Trump's speeches fail to match the content of his actual speeches), it is simply unnecessary to defeat their argument.

You just shame and shout them down until they shut up. Then you "won". This is schoolyard bully logic.

People need to find a better ideology. This truth-is-relative, I'm-right-because-I'm-on-the-Right-Side-of-History fanatical nonsense needs to go. This is how the Soviets acted as they snitched on their neighbors to be worked to death in remote territories. It was "right" because it was in service of the "right side of history". The means don't matter. The morals don't matter. The Other Side is already a lost cause, unredeemable. We must beat them. It is our survival.

You will find this sort of passionate rhetoric at the heart of both the communist movement and the current Democratic party. They say these things openly and brazenly. I am still morally right, even if I am not factually right.

This is the Democrat's brain tumor. Can they diagnose and excise accordingly? To be clear, I am not talking about a particular politician or even about one coalition. Can Democrats finally reject the moral relativity that is causing their party to spiral out of control?

In spite of all the university education on the Democratic side, I don't expect them to be able to resolve this philosophical conundrum any time soon if they keep acting this way.
 
Last edited: