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Opinion Drama Why Some People Hate TLOU2?

drotahorror

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Mar 21, 2014
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I want to play it but sold my ps4 before it came out. Now I'm waiting to see if a PS5 patch ever comes out for it. Definitely want to play in 60 frames.
 

Clear

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Feb 2, 2009
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Lol man. You are so full of it. I made a statement and then I clarified my point further when you questioned it. Yes, it is a discussion but we're past the point of trying to understand each other and please don't put words in my mouth because I never said they should "reskin" a thing and pretend its an innovation nor did I ask for innovation here! Re-read what I stated earlier, they could have put more effort in the infected and introduced ones that would pose more of a challenge (how you translate this into a reskin/call it innovation is beyond me.) I've played the game and the things you keep trying to point out didn't translate over organically. It was all forced.

And what's with questioning me about why I have been "arguing with you" when you point out in the same post, that it is a discussion, or do you also need that pointed out to you? I guess forgive me for responding to you!

Dude, your entire argument can be summarized by saying "the game would be better if it had more (unspecified) things I like in it, and less things I (arbitrarily) dislike" !

My mind is truly blown.
 
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tichamac

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Dec 6, 2020
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453
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It's still super easy to find. So yes.

No doubt, this happened too. I know I'm not telling you something you don't know here, but these things aren't mutually exclusive.
I notice you didn't provide a sample of all those sexist attacks.
 

EruditeHobo

Member
Jun 5, 2013
693
581
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I notice you didn't provide a sample of all those sexist attacks.

If you're seriously doubting the existence of misogynist/racist/sexist opinions, whether they are trolls or not, being a significant element of both TLoU2 & TLJ social media discourse... I don't know what to tell you. That seems to be you being really obtuse to me. But if me not going and digging up tweets from a bunch of shitheads means you take some sort of moral victory from this brief exchange... what can I say. Congratulations.

I don’t think you will find Wrudite providing anything other than excuses. That seems to be what they excel at.

Auf wiedersehen Claus!
 
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Claus Grimhildyr

Vincit qui se vincit
Jan 30, 2018
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If you're seriously doubting the existence of misogynist/racist/sexist opinions, whether they are trolls or not, being a significant element of both TLoU2 & TLJ social media discourse... I don't know what to tell you. That seems to be you being really obtuse to me. But if me not going and digging up tweets from a bunch of shitheads means you take some sort of moral victory from this brief exchange... what can I say. Congratulations.



Auf wiedersehen Claus!

Point further proven. It’s almost like you are physically incapable to follow up with evidence in any claim you make.
 
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sainraja

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Aug 15, 2007
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Dude, your entire argument can be summarized by saying "the game would be better if it had more (unspecified) things I like in it, and less things I (arbitrarily) dislike" !

My mind is truly blown.

I have been sharing my opinion on the game and what would have made it better! Or did you just come to that realization? Bravo! 👏

If they cut out things that don't make sense and put in things that make sense, then yes, it will be better. Your mind should be blown. You're welcome. 😃

And your argument looks a bit like this:

"you don't know what it takes to design a game" & "it is a game so it is going to have gamey things"

Regardless, you've gone out of your way to show me that it's not worth discussing anything with you if this is how you end up acting. Moving on...
 
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PropellerEar

Member
Dec 8, 2018
1,642
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The gameplay is awful and its fucking boring.

It's the sort of thing emo kids that have blue hair and black lipstick think is a good game.
Haters are basement dwellers that never lived one day of real life.

Am I doing it right, edgy boy? :messenger_weary::messenger_ok:
 

Clear

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I have been sharing my opinion on the game and what would have made it better! Or did you just come to that realization? Bravo! 👏

If they cut out things that don't make sense and put in things that make sense, then yes, it will be better. Your mind should be blown. You're welcome. 😃

They only don't make sense to you because your mind is closed to them. I've just gotten bored of spelling out to you (with examples, and established writing and game-design theory -things I am well versed in) why they made choices they made, and having you ignore these points because you are scared of giving an inch away in the debate.

Our feelings shouldn't matter because they aren't relevant to anyone else. What's useful is how we arrived at our respective viewpoints, how considered and reasonable they are, and whether they actually hold any value in the marketplace of ideas.

That's why I post in detail my rationale for my tastes and opinions. I'm not doing it to show off, I'm doing it because I feel its important to challenge bad ideas and arguments because if not discourse starts to circle the drain towards empty snark and name-calling.

If you don't think that's worthwhile, don't reply to me. I'm not trying to be popular, I'm going to give an honest take, as I see it, every single time.
If I'm right, great, I've added something of value to the discussion. If I'm wrong, prove me wrong and I'll thank you for it, because you've elevated the discourse with your contribution.
 
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sainraja

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Aug 15, 2007
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Minor spoilers: aside from the drama surrounding it with the fake leaks, the disproven "Abby is trans" stuff, the "omg they went woke" camp and the "it has representation so it's GOTY by default"... it's not quite the sequel people wanted in terms of narrative and tone. TLOU was a beautiful tragedy, TLOU2 was, for the most part, a bloody revenge simulator with tons of violence that is supposed to make you feel uncomfortable, but it kinda doesn't happen because players never really agree with the protagonist throughout the game, nor they see why that character from TLOU should suddenly be a bloody psychopath. As someone who really enjoyed the first game, I personally was disappointed in the direction the second one took. As amazing it looked, it felt, it was acted and such, it's not the story I wanted and I was not satisfied with its direction as a whole.

Yeah, pretty much this. The game had so much potential and they just gave us a revenge story! The gameplay encounters were good though. I can't take that away but there was no connection. I didn't agree with anything the characters were doing.
 

sainraja

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Aug 15, 2007
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They only don't make sense to you because your mind is closed to them. I've just gotten bored of spelling out to you (with examples, and established writing and game-design theory -things I am well versed in) why they made choices they made, and having you ignore these points because you are scared of giving an inch away in the debate.

Our feelings shouldn't matter because they aren't relevant to anyone else. What's useful is how we arrived at our respective viewpoints, how considered and reasonable they are, and whether they actually hold any value in the marketplace of ideas.

That's why I post in detail my rationale for my tastes and opinions. I'm not doing it to show off, I'm doing it because I feel its important to challenge bad ideas and arguments because if not discourse starts to circle the drain towards empty snark and name-calling.

If you don't think that's worthwhile, don't reply to me. I'm not trying to be popular, I'm going to give an honest take, as I see it, every single time.
If I'm right, great, I've added something of value to the discussion. If I'm wrong, prove me wrong and I'll thank you for it, because you've elevated the discourse with your contribution.

I understood the game just fine. I ended up not liking the story the way it was told and I provided a few examples that would have made me like it better (with the revenge angle.) I don't need to study game design theory in order to say if I like the story being told in a game and what I would have liked instead.

And don't worry. I won't be responding to you after this because we'll just go in circles.
 
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Anybody that played the game (and it has the best completion rate of any game in PlayStation 4) can see:

  • The revenge cycle theme is fantastic.
  • The story is deep and keep you engaged to know what it will happen next.
  • Characters are great with it own complications with amazing development (I can't find one to be bad).
  • The gameplay is again flawless... it is perfection.
  • The enemy variety is now way better.
  • The weapons and craft items are way better than original.
  • The world and environment are fantastic.
  • Side activities are great.
  • It humanizes all sides... it is impactful and emotionally driven.

The game is everything a sequel should be.
It is a must to play even if you get down due violence.

So I really can't understand the hate some GAFers has with one of the best games ever created.


You know. Somehow, you've always known.
 

ItsTheNew

I believe any game made before 1997 is "essentially cave man art."
Mar 26, 2013
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I didn't like the first one because it was a depressing game and the everything was just ugly (not graphically or art wise, just an ugly sad world) and this one doubled down on that. Not interested .
 

Claus Grimhildyr

Vincit qui se vincit
Jan 30, 2018
6,593
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I have been sharing my opinion on the game and what would have made it better! Or did you just come to that realization? Bravo! 👏

If they cut out things that don't make sense and put in things that make sense, then yes, it will be better. Your mind should be blown. You're welcome. 😃

And your argument looks a bit like this:

"you don't know what it takes to design a game" & "it is a game so it is going to have gamey things"

Regardless, you've gone out of your way to show me that it's not worth discussing anything with you if this is how you end up acting. Moving on...

Mate, you are trying to discuss something with someone who got offended that people were mocking a mental case who thought he was a deer (hence his title). You weren’t going to get any discussion worthwhile.
 

Clear

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Mate, you are trying to discuss something with someone who got offended that people were mocking a mental case who thought he was a deer (hence his title). You weren’t going to get any discussion worthwhile.

I wasn't offended by it. I just thought it was lame and played into the narrative being pushed elsewhere that this place was a troll-haven filled with alt-right goons.

Fuck me for being the adult in the room I guess!

But still, getting saddled with this tag is less embarrassing than any of your retarded opinions Claus.
 

Barnabot

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Oct 16, 2018
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I wasn't offended by it. I just thought it was lame and played into the narrative being pushed elsewhere that this place was a troll-haven filled with alt-right goons.

Fuck me for being the adult in the room I guess!

But still, getting saddled with this tag is less embarrassing than any of your retarded opinions Claus.
what the fuck the alt-right had to do with anything? what's is alt-right and who's alt-right according to you?
 

Clear

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Feb 2, 2009
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what the fuck the alt-right had to do with anything? what's is alt-right and who's alt-right according to you?

Narrative being pushed elsewhere, not by me. I don't think I need to spell out where and by whom because its obvious.

To be honest, my main gripe was that the person getting ripped on had done nothing. They got a job somewhere, then somebody followed up saw their (ridiculous) identity thing and the thread was just taking the piss out of them.

I wouldn't have said a damn thing if they were trumpeting about their "deer" identity and how stunning and brave it is as a lifestyle choice, because then they'd have brought it upon themselves. However, to my knowledge, all they'd done was get a job as an artist. Which if you've been in the industry as long as I have will understand that its potentially an entry level position, one of many.

So, to me, it didn't seem warranted. It seemed tribal, the exact same behavior as you see on Resetera and the like if they get a sniff that some dev isn't a card-carrying member of the progressive brigade. "Its one of them, get them!"

So, I make no apology for calling it out, because my belief is that how you act individually, and as a community is what matters. Not what your beliefs are. Behave dickishly and you're still a dick, no matter how high-falutin' your moral stance is and how self righteous you feel.

It was a petty, bitch-made little thread of a caliber I'd associate with the Reetards, so I politely called it out for what it was.

It wasn't even back-seat modding because I didn't call for any action, I just said that it made US, as a community, look as vindictive and small-minded as people on other forums and their allies in the progressive media were saying. I was completely surprised that anyone would take offence.
 
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I wasn't offended by it. I just thought it was lame and played into the narrative being pushed elsewhere that this place was a troll-haven filled with alt-right goons.

Fuck me for being the adult in the room I guess!

But still, getting saddled with this tag is less embarrassing than any of your retarded opinions Claus.
Sure... I guess hastily calling opinions that don't agree with yours constitutes as being the "adult in the room"...
 

emmerrei

Member
Sep 4, 2019
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It's a good game afterall, one good reason to hate the game, is to go against those resetera living forms, who takes that game as their "flag".
 

Claus Grimhildyr

Vincit qui se vincit
Jan 30, 2018
6,593
11,785
910
I wasn't offended by it. I just thought it was lame and played into the narrative being pushed elsewhere that this place was a troll-haven filled with alt-right goons.

Fuck me for being the adult in the room I guess!

But still, getting saddled with this tag is less embarrassing than any of your retarded opinions Claus.

Lol, okay “deer”.

You were about as adult as a typical reeer during that thread and are itching ever closer to it in this thread.
 
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oagboghi2

Member
Apr 15, 2018
12,544
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They only don't make sense to you because your mind is closed to them. I've just gotten bored of spelling out to you (with examples, and established writing and game-design theory -things I am well versed in) why they made choices they made, and having you ignore these points because you are scared of giving an inch away in the debate.

Our feelings shouldn't matter because they aren't relevant to anyone else. What's useful is how we arrived at our respective viewpoints, how considered and reasonable they are, and whether they actually hold any value in the marketplace of ideas.

That's why I post in detail my rationale for my tastes and opinions. I'm not doing it to show off, I'm doing it because I feel its important to challenge bad ideas and arguments because if not discourse starts to circle the drain towards empty snark and name-calling.

If you don't think that's worthwhile, don't reply to me. I'm not trying to be popular, I'm going to give an honest take, as I see it, every single time.
If I'm right, great, I've added something of value to the discussion. If I'm wrong, prove me wrong and I'll thank you for it, because you've elevated the discourse with your contribution.
😂 You really can't handle people having a different opinion from you.

Are you going to tell us our subjective opinion about whether or not we enjoy something is wrong too?
 
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lock2k

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Narrative being pushed elsewhere, not by me. I don't think I need to spell out where and by whom because its obvious.

To be honest, my main gripe was that the person getting ripped on had done nothing. They got a job somewhere, then somebody followed up saw their (ridiculous) identity thing and the thread was just taking the piss out of them.

I wouldn't have said a damn thing if they were trumpeting about their "deer" identity and how stunning and brave it is as a lifestyle choice, because then they'd have brought it upon themselves. However, to my knowledge, all they'd done was get a job as an artist. Which if you've been in the industry as long as I have will understand that its potentially an entry level position, one of many.

So, to me, it didn't seem warranted. It seemed tribal, the exact same behavior as you see on Resetera and the like if they get a sniff that some dev isn't a card-carrying member of the progressive brigade. "Its one of them, get them!"

So, I make no apology for calling it out, because my belief is that how you act individually, and as a community is what matters. Not what your beliefs are. Behave dickishly and you're still a dick, no matter how high-falutin' your moral stance is and how self righteous you feel.

It was a petty, bitch-made little thread of a caliber I'd associate with the Reetards, so I politely called it out for what it was.

It wasn't even back-seat modding because I didn't call for any action, I just said that it made US, as a community, look as vindictive and small-minded as people on other forums and their allies in the progressive media were saying. I was completely surprised that anyone would take offence.

Your username should be clouded, confused, unsure, etc. You're everything but clear in your replies. I can't even tell if you like this game or not :messenger_beaming: :messenger_tears_of_joy: :messenger_tears_of_joy: :messenger_tears_of_joy:
 
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Muay Ninja

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Mar 24, 2017
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I lost interest half way through when control switched from Ellie to Abby.
Honestly, don't know why, but I never picked the game up again after playable Abby's opening cutscene in the headquarters place.

That's a shame because Abby delivered a refreshing change of pace to the gameplay and also (in my opinion) had one of the best gameplay segments (Rat King) of the entire game bar Ellies' underwater stealth section.
 

Clear

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😂 You really can't handle people having a different opinion from you.

Are you going to tell us our subjective opinion about whether or not we enjoy something is wrong too?

As I've said repeatedly, I only care about opinions that can be supported by more than "muh feelings".

If your "subjective" opinion is that the Earth is flat, guess what? You're still a moron. There is no participation prize for stupid ideas.

But anyway, back to the ongoing derail of a thread I gave up on 2 days ago!
 
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lock2k

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As I've said repeatedly, I only care about opinions that can be supported by more than "muh feelings".

If your "subjective" opinion is that the Earth is flat, guess what? You're still a moron. There is no participation prize for stupid ideas.

But anyway, back to the ongoing derail of a thread I gave up on 2 days ago!
 
Oct 26, 2018
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As I've said repeatedly, I only care about opinions that can be supported by more than "muh feelings".

If your "subjective" opinion is that the Earth is flat, guess what? You're still a moron. There is no participation prize for stupid ideas.

But anyway, back to the ongoing derail of a thread I gave up on 2 days ago!
Relax warrior.

It's a video game. Graphics, story, gameplay, bugs etc.... are all subjective.

Comparing art and media to something scientific like the Earth is flat or round has to be among the dumbest comparisons I've ever seen.
 
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MHubert

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Relax warrior.

It's a video game. Graphics, story, gameplay, bugs etc.... are all subjective.

Comparing art and media to something scientific like the Earth is flat or round has to be among the dumbest comparisons I've ever seen.
... A game's graphics, story, gameplay and bugs has nothing to do with your subjective opinion.
 

Clear

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Relax warrior.

It's a video game. Graphics, story, gameplay, bugs etc.... are all subjective.

Comparing art and media to something scientific like the Earth is flat or round has to be among the dumbest comparisons I've ever seen.

So, let me get this straight. You think that there are no fundamental rules underlying writing, dramaturgy, and game design?
Really? There is no room for actual analysis, its just all "feel"?

That being the case is anything truly "good" or "bad"? Why are we bothering with discussion in the first place? Lets just put it to a vote, stick scores out of 10 in a hat, whatever!

Look. If you actually took the time to read my stuff, I'm kinda precise on the points I defend and/or take issue with. Because if you have a background (as I do) of actually doing these things professionally, you get used to having to justify your creative choices. If someone challenges your take, you inquire what theirs is, and then compare the two on merit, not on who shouts the loudest.

I don't think the game is above criticism, I have plenty of gripes of my own, but I just disagreed with the specific complaints and arguments that were presented to me. I didn't start the pointless ad-hom attacks.
 

Woggleman

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I love this game and is my GOTY but I wonder if Neil Druckman is glad about the whole Cyberpunk debacle. People have certainly moved on to the next outrage.
 
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So, let me get this straight. You think that there are no fundamental rules underlying writing, dramaturgy, and game design?
Really? There is no room for actual analysis, its just all "feel"?

That being the case is anything truly "good" or "bad"? Why are we bothering with discussion in the first place? Lets just put it to a vote, stick scores out of 10 in a hat, whatever!

Look. If you actually took the time to read my stuff, I'm kinda precise on the points I defend and/or take issue with. Because if you have a background (as I do) of actually doing these things professionally, you get used to having to justify your creative choices. If someone challenges your take, you inquire what theirs is, and then compare the two on merit, not on who shouts the loudest.

I don't think the game is above criticism, I have plenty of gripes of my own, but I just disagreed with the specific complaints and arguments that were presented to me. I didn't start the pointless ad-hom attacks.
Good writing style or script and whether someone likes it or not don't have to correlate to one another.

I like the movie Spaceballs. Someone else might think it's the dumbest spoof movie ever. Makes no difference if the actual writing is good or not or if the pot makes sense one bit.

On another note, I also like NARC. Some people might think it's boring because the first half of the movie hardly anything even happens except Jason Patric and Ray Liotta dabbling with an investigation. Some people might even bail midway through the movie. But I liked it. How good is the script? Who knows.

Every once in a while some people bring up threads about that crazy EDF alien shooter game. It looks dumb, it's got cheesy dialogue, it even runs kind of janky. But some people love it. On paper, it looks like a trainwreck, but people like it.
 
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Clear

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Good writing style or script and whether someone likes it or not don't have to correlate to one another.

I know, that's my point.
Its why I've been arguing that "just because you don't like it, it doesn't make it bad writing, and here's why..."

My feeling and intent is just to vigorously defend against what I see as bad arguments, the merit of which I'd argue regardless of the game. Believe it or not, I do argue in good faith, and I will happily concede a point if a more solid arguments presents itself.

The problem is that when observable fact contradicts subjective reaction certain people refuse to concede the point because (I guess) they think that I'm trying to make them "like" something when they don't. The reality is that I don't care how they feel, just that I don't think its right for them to say "x thing is shit" unchallenged, when its actually fine, just they don't like that choice for whatever reason.
 
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I know, that's my point.
Its why I've been arguing that "just because you don't like it, it doesn't make it bad writing, and here's why..."

My feeling and intent is just to vigorously defend against what I see as bad arguments, the merit of which I'd argue regardless of the game. Believe it or not, I do argue in good faith, and I will happily concede a point if a more solid arguments presents itself.

The problem is that when observable fact contradicts subjective reaction certain people refuse to concede the point because (I guess) they think that I'm trying to make them "like" something when they don't. The reality is that I don't care how they feel, just that I don't think its right for them to say "x thing is shit" unchallenged, when its actually fine, just they don't like that choice for whatever reason.
You're assuming it's good writing, but they don't like it so you got to defend.

My point is whether someone like or hates something can be due to good or bad writing. In other words, all over the place.

You are trying to justify to people LoU2 has good writing and that their opinion it's bad is wrong.

Just let it be. I remember everyone loving LA Confidential. I hated it and thought it was boring and overrated. The only good part is I think an old guy shoots himself in the mouth (I think). I don't care how many awards it won. Nobody will change I didn't like it.

(Edit: wrong movie. Cromwell suicide was in Eraser, not LA Confidential)
 
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Yes. Because writing and dramaturgy has basic rules and tenets that have been established over hundreds of years and countless works and articles of theory.

Its not all subjective.
Just as I thought.

Fan warrior to the bitter end.
 

Dunki

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Oct 24, 2017
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Just as I thought.

Fan warrior to the bitter end.
Is this your argumentation? YES Writing has rules. For example you have the 3rd act kind of writing which basically tell you what is happening. These are basic tools. And for TLOU2 Here is a great video explaining why the writing is so bad.

 
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Clear

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Just as I thought.

Fan warrior to the bitter end.

No, just way smarter than you it seems.

Serious question, because there is literally zero point in arguing with someone who refuses to accept the objectivity exists (very post-modern of you, you should try critical theory), have you never, ever in your life changed your opinion about something?

Because if you have, then you need to consider how impermanent and fragile "subjective" observation really is.

Out.
 
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Is this your argumentation? YES Writing has rules. For example you have the 3rd act kind of writing which basically tell you what is happening. These are basic tools. And for TLOU2 Here is a great video explaining why the writing is so bad.

Im working so I'll watch it later.

No, just way smarter than you it seems.

Serious question, because there is literally zero point in arguing with someone who refuses to accept the objectivity exists (very post-modern of you, you should try critical theory), have you never, ever in your life changed your opinion about something?

Because if you have, then you need to consider how impermanent and fragile "subjective" observation really is.

Out.
Whether someone likes or hates a game or movie is their subjective opinion. NOT based on writing.

I'd like to see your laundry list favourite games or movies and see what kind of scripts and dialogue scenes are in those media.

Since you got this high and mighty emphasis that your opinion on good writing in games and movies sticks, lets see your other fav shows or games.
 
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anothertech

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Wow. dur indeed.

Game sucks due to fundamental flaws in writing, not knowing it's fan base, and ruining an entire franchise with woke bullshit and shock value pandering.

Player choice award was the real winner.
 

Dunki

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Im working so I'll watch it later.


Whether someone likes or hates a game or movie is their subjective opinion. NOT based on writing.

I'd like to see your laundry list favourite games or movies and see what kind of scripts and dialogue scenes are in those media.

Since you got this high and mighty emphasis that your opinion on good writing in games and movies sticks, lets see your other fav shows or games.
You Said writing has no rules which I said is not true. There is a base structure of writing that has been used for hundreds of years already. Again one example would be the 3 Act structure. But there are tons of other ways.

But if you want good written Stories in video games. YAKUZA. Yakuza over 8 games has such an consistency regarding the characters, the world it is set in and the quality of writing that it rivals or even surpassing actual TV shows.

And if you go for the revenge theme. Even Though I never liked GTA4 but GTA had a much better overall revenge Plot with an actual conclusion that feels earned. TLOU2 has nothing like that.
 

DForce

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Media choses TLOU 2 as GOTY? Rigged/Paid.
Fans chose TLOU2 as GOTY? Rigged/Paid.
Journalist give TLOU 2 a high scores? Paid reviews.
YouTubers give TLOU 2 a high score? Paid

Example: The tweets below

People think TLOU fans cannot accept when someone doesn't like the game.

There are far too many examples of the exact opposite.
 
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You Said writing has no rules which I said is not true. There is a base structure of writing that has been used for hundreds of years already. Again one example would be the 3 Act structure. But there are tons of other ways.

But if you want good written Stories in video games. YAKUZA. Yakuza over 8 games has such an consistency regarding the characters, the world it is set in and the quality of writing that it rivals or even surpassing actual TV shows.

And if you go for the revenge theme. Even Though I never liked GTA4 but GTA had a much better overall revenge Plot with an actual conclusion that feels earned. TLOU2 has nothing like that.
No.

I said people's opinions on whether someone likes a game or story has nothing to do with how good or bad the writing actually is.

For example, a lot of people like Arnold Schw movies. If anyone actually analyzed the scripts in his movies, they are actually cheesy and bad. He actually says few lines in most of his movies too.

On a pure writing quality, I'd say most of his movies have trashy scripts. Yet, people love him and his movies.

So don't get confused with People Love X = Awesome Writing
 
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Dunki

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Media choses TLOU 2 as GOTY? Rigged/Paid.
Fans chose TLOU2 as GOTY? Rigged/Paid.
Journalist give TLOU 2 a high scores? Paid reviews.
YouTubers give TLOU 2 a high score? Paid

Example: The tweets below

People think TLOU fans cannot accept when someone doesn't like the game.

There are far too many examples of the exact opposite.
Meanwhile most "critics" and sites having Hades as their GOTY. How does that fit?

TLOU2 is a devisive game for sure and even if people like it. People mostly criticize the bbad writing and pacing.

And I BET if people actually would also have played the Story of Yakuza 7 they would see the difference of good vs bad writing. And Yakuza 7 is not even the best in the series in terms of writing.
 

DForce

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Meanwhile most "critics" and sites having Hades as their GOTY. How does that fit?

TLOU2 is a devisive game for sure and even if people like it. People mostly criticize the bbad writing and pacing.

And I BET if people actually would also have played the Story of Yakuza 7 they would see the difference of good vs bad writing. And Yakuza 7 is not even the best in the series in terms of writing.

Most sites?

And where are you getting this from?
 

Dunki

Member
Oct 24, 2017
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No.

I said people's opinions on whether someone likes a game or story has nothing to do with how good or bad the writing actually is.

For example, a lot of people like Arnold Schw movies. If anyone actually analyzed the scripts in his movies, they are actually cheesy and bad. He actually says few lines in most of his movies too.

On a pure writing quality, I'd say most of his movies have trashy scripts. Yet, people love him and his movies.

So don't get confused with People Love X = Awesome Writing
Of course but when this game wins best narrative I have to say WHAT? Everything beside the story, pacing and writing is top. Gameplay has not changed much but otherwise it is top quality like you expect from Naughtydog.

This is my biggest griipe with this. People who do not like the game getting attacked "because you hate women bla bla bla"

No I do not hate women. I just think the quality if pure garbage regarding the writing.


Most sites?

And where are you getting this from?
So far whats out Hades has won GOTY awards. TLOU2 so far not. Just look at these "critic" awards (Except Gameawards but the awards on their sites etc.
 
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You Said writing has no rules which I said is not true. There is a base structure of writing that has been used for hundreds of years already. Again one example would be the 3 Act structure. But there are tons of other ways.

But if you want good written Stories in video games. YAKUZA. Yakuza over 8 games has such an consistency regarding the characters, the world it is set in and the quality of writing that it rivals or even surpassing actual TV shows.

And if you go for the revenge theme. Even Though I never liked GTA4 but GTA had a much better overall revenge Plot with an actual conclusion that feels earned. TLOU2 has nothing like that.
Yakuza 0 has a revenge arc that felt miles above TLOU2.
 
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Termite

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Minor spoilers: aside from the drama surrounding it with the fake leaks, the disproven "Abby is trans" stuff, the "omg they went woke" camp and the "it has representation so it's GOTY by default"... it's not quite the sequel people wanted in terms of narrative and tone. TLOU was a beautiful tragedy, TLOU2 was, for the most part, a bloody revenge simulator with tons of violence that is supposed to make you feel uncomfortable, but it kinda doesn't happen because players never really agree with the protagonist throughout the game, nor they see why that character from TLOU should suddenly be a bloody psychopath. As someone who really enjoyed the first game, I personally was disappointed in the direction the second one took. As amazing it looked, it felt, it was acted and such, it's not the story I wanted and I was not satisfied with its direction as a whole.

Yeah, agreed.

My big problem was that the game required you to hate Abby from the start for the narrative to function the way it was supposed to... and I didn't. I didn't see her as too different from Ellie and Joel. I understood exactly why she did what she did. Didn't agree with it, but understood it. Joel himself has done worse. I certainly didn't hate Abby's friends, and the violence against them was blatantly unjustified psychopathy.

So when Ellie took things to a whole new level, killing about a hundred decent people in her mad quest for revenge, I was just disgusted and then ultimately bored. It doesn't help that she's such an unlikeable character to begin with. Sullen and distant at almost all times. Couldn't understand what Dina saw in her at all.

The game then spending it's later half uselessly saying "See?! They were people too!" was just preaching to the choir, 15 hours of something I'd understood less than 4 hours into the game. It bored me to tears.

It felt at times like getting a 30 hour long "Murder is actually bad, okay?" lecture.

Also, the pacing was all off - each day had no business taking as long as it did, it could have been heavily edited down. Speaking of editing, there were way too many flashbacks, and again they dragged on, making points the player understands five minutes in.

The actually gameplay was superb though, as were the visuals and audio design. All in all I'm glad I played it, but I was also disappointed.
 
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DForce

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Nov 23, 2017
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You Said writing has no rules which I said is not true. There is a base structure of writing that has been used for hundreds of years already. Again one example would be the 3 Act structure. But there are tons of other ways.

But if you want good written Stories in video games. YAKUZA. Yakuza over 8 games has such an consistency regarding the characters, the world it is set in and the quality of writing that it rivals or even surpassing actual TV shows.

And if you go for the revenge theme. Even Though I never liked GTA4 but GTA had a much better overall revenge Plot with an actual conclusion that feels earned. TLOU2 has nothing like that.

3 act structure is not really a "rule" it's a basic structure that writers don't have to follow. Every movie doesn't follow it and story doesn't follow it.
 

DForce

Member
Nov 23, 2017
5,471
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615
So far whats out Hades has won GOTY awards. TLOU2 so far not. Just look at these "critic" awards (Except Gameawards but the awards on their sites etc.

I'm asking you where's your proof that most critics picked Hades over TLOU 2 as GOTY.