Support NeoGAF

[JoshuaJSlone]

Sorry to add to topic glut, but this seems something people would be interested in. It's briefly come up in the Nintendo conference thread, so I guess many skimming or avoiding that thread could miss it... maybe we even missed earlier discussion of the same fact. Anyway, BorkBork posted

Err is this document old?
http://press.nintendo.com/e32k6/News/ADI-Nintendo_PR_2006-5-8Approved.pdf
Details about the controller.

To which I replied:

I hadn't seen that. Interesting. The Wii Remote and Nunchuk attachment use an ADXL330 iMEMs accelerometer. Search for ADXL330 and there are quite a number of results.

This seems to be the main product site. It looks like on that page they can be purchased in bulk (1000-4999) for $5.45 apiece.

The ADXL330 is a small, low power (200µA at 2V) 3-axis iMEMS® accelerometer complete with signal conditioned voltage outputs on a single monolithic IC. The product measures acceleration with a minimum full-scale range of ±3g. For tilt sensing applications it measures the static acceleration of gravity. It also measures dynamic acceleration resulting from motion, shock, or vibration. The ADXL330 is available in a small 4 mm × 4 mm × 1.45 mm, 16-lead, plastic LFCSP.

# Applications: Motion and Tilt sensing in Mobile Devices
# Handsets
# Motion-Enabled Gaming Devices
# Disk Drive Protection Systems
# Sports and Health Devices

Here's an article from late last year about the ADXL330. Here are the bits most interesting to us:

"This is the first three-axis motion sensor accelerometer…and the first single-chip three-axis MEMS accelerometer with signal conditioning and circuitry together on the same chip," said Mack Lund, the company's product marketing manager for micromachined products. The chip's mechanical sensing structures allow it to offer low power in a small package while also providing stable performance over its temperature range, he said.

In addition, the device's low supply voltage, from 2.0 to 3.6V, benefits battery-powered applications, Lund said. "If users only need to use this for short periods of time or they want to duty-cycle it, they can get even lower power than best-in-class," he said. The device can turn on in 1 msec, take a measurement, and turn off again to save power, he said.

...

The ADXL330 is now sampling and costs less than $2 in high volume, according to the company. It is slated for volume production during the first quarter of next year.

Has anyone noticed any press releases about the sensor bar?

 

[Battersea Power Station]

Wow when you said details, you meant it. Can anyone find similar info for a) the Wario Ware Twisted accelerometer and b) the PS3 controller?

I just want a reference point for the tech of something I've already used.

 

[mintosen]

could be the same one that DS3 uses actually.
Does it say anything about refreshrate?

 

[jgkspsx]

So the wiimote and the nunchuk have one of these each, and the sensor bar is used to determine position. Cool. I still want to know what exact technology they're using with the sensor bar -- straight-out RF timing seems out of the question, but barring infrared I don't know what it could be.

 

[Jim]

A bit more info.. from STMicroelectronics

STMicroelectronics Drives Gaming Revolution with Nintendo's Wii(TM)
STMicroelectronics (NYSE:STM) , one of the world's leading semiconductor manufacturers, today announced that its three-axis acceleration sensors will be used to provide a motion-activated user interface for Nintendo's new home console, Wii.

Expected to dramatically change the way people play games, the Wii controller includes ST's high-performance acceleration sensors that can detect the motion and tilt of a player's hand in all 3 dimensions and convert it into immediate game action.

Driven by ST's Micro Electro-Mechanical Systems (MEMS) technology -- micron-sized structures that interact with the physical world -- the Wii controller can respond to changes in direction, speed, and acceleration, down to the most delicate movements. Specifically, the controllers use embedded acceleration sensors to enable players' wrist, arm, and hand movements to interact with the games. Tilt measurements allow users to move characters, while the accurate three-axis acceleration sensing easily transforms the controller into a virtual sword, gearshift, or musical instrument.

http://www.st.com/stonline/stappl/press/news/year2006/t2031.htm

 

[JoshuaJSlone]

Does it say anything about refreshrate?

The ADXL330 spec PDF is generally beyond my understanding, but here's the relevant bit I think:

FREQUENCY RESPONSE
Bandwidth Xout, Yout 1600 Hz
Bandwidth Zout 550 Hz
With a footnote saying "Actual frequency response controlled by user-supplied external filter capacitors"

 

[MrSardonic]

that's dirt cheap.

You know when Matt said he tried to do a quick mid-air turn while playing MP3, but the controller didn't respond, I wonder if there is any chance that it has to do with the 3g limit on the accelerometers?

 

[Avutta1978]

that's dirt cheap.

You know when Matt said he tried to do a quick mid-air turn while playing MP3, but the controller didn't respond, I wonder if there is any chance that it has to do with the 3g limit on the accelerometers?

i doubt it, casue with the mp2 demo last year people were doing spins, but it was too fast, so it has to dowith software sensitivity and not the accelrometer,

 

[REK]

It is so cheap that I can see this being used in all future consoles in some form or another!

REK

 

[poppin fresh]

i doubt it, casue with the mp2 demo last year people were doing spins, but it was too fast, so it has to dowith software sensitivity and not the accelrometer,

Yeah the lack of mid air turning sounded more like software on retro's part, I mean very simply they may just not like the idea of turning mid air for one reason or another. It may flaw the gameplay, as said the last reports commented on spinning too fast and this is probably retro's way to remedy it by removing turn functions for jumping which they feel should be used more in a platforming sense than in a frantic fps hopping and shooting scenario.
But then I love hopping and snapping around to shoot someone you just jumped past.

Those details are great, thanks for them.
For the person asking about the PS3 controller, I think it is meant to use 6 axis, or was that 6 degrees in terms of 6 different motion inputs? Either way details should be out there somewhere.

 

[JoshuaJSlone]

It is so cheap that I can see this being used in all future consoles in some form or another!

REK

Totally. I was disappointed that DS didn't have any sort of tilt function; since it was built into individual games without a big price increase, it couldn't cost that much. As it turns out this is essentially an evolution of that technology, but still cheap. This device is from the same company that provided the tilt in Kirby's Tilt 'N Tumble.

With cheap devices like this, it seems the addition to the PS3 controller wouldn't have been a very problematic one after all. "Hell, guys, we're losing $200 on this machine... why not $202?"

For the person asking about the PS3 controller, I think it is meant to use 6 axis, or was that 6 degrees in terms of 6 different motion inputs? Either way details should be out there somewhere.

There are only the 3 axes; thus 3D. 6 degrees of freedom refers to the tilt for each axis plus the motion for each axis.


EDIT: Hell, at $2, I can imagine future control systems using them in more ways than one for each hand. People (including me) have joked about things like strapping wiimotes to your arms and legs, but if these things are so cheap the sensors wouldn't be a problem... if anything the problem would lie with either the necessary wires or wireless equipment.

 

[Juice]

Sounds like the first press release is speaking only of the three lateral DOF (sensor bar coordinated), while the second technology will be responsible for all tilt recognition (the other 3 DOF).

Very interesting.

I imagine that the nunchuku would only have 3, but that's not necessarily true, as some coordination/assumption about its position can be made based on the fact it is tethered to the remote.

 

[Fourth Storm]

Interesting. What happened to Gyration, though? Guess Nintendo dumped them...And hopefully this price will help quell the rumors that these controllers will retail for over $50.

 

[JoshuaJSlone]

Sounds like the first press release is speaking only of the three lateral DOF (sensor bar coordinated), while the second technology will be responsible for all tilt recognition (the other 3 DOF).

I'm not so sure. In many ways it seems they're talking about the same thing. 3-axis accelerometers that can detect motion and tilt, that has resistance up to 10,000g, and is loved by Genyo Takeda because it's small, good, and cheap.

There are differences as well, though. ADX330 is said to be 4x4x1.45mm, while the ST release mentions their device being 5x5x1.5mm. Neither news release mentions the other company, so I don't think there's a parent/child relationship. Maybe Nintendo has multiple companies providing accelerometers, as Xbox had multiple disc drive providers?


EDIT: This Yahoo! Finance page lists ADI and STMicroelectronics as competitors, so indeed there's no parent/child relationship.

 

[Beer Monkey]

Low parts pricing = Samba Maracas!

 

[PkunkFury]

Interesting. What happened to Gyration, though? Guess Nintendo dumped them...And hopefully this price will help quell the rumors that these controllers will retail for over $50.

This is about the translation detection. Gyration would take care of tilt and orientation measures

 

[Juice]

I'm not so sure. In many ways it seems they're talking about the same thing. 3-axis accelerometers that can detect motion and tilt, that has resistance up to 10,000g, and is loved by Genyo Takeda because it's small, good, and cheap.

There are differences as well, though. ADX330 is said to be 4x4x1.45mm, while the ST release mentions their device being 5x5x1.5mm. Neither news release mentions the other company, so I don't think there's a parent/child relationship. Maybe Nintendo has multiple companies providing accelerometers, as Xbox had multiple disc drive providers?


EDIT: This Yahoo! Finance page lists ADI and STMicroelectronics as competitors, so indeed there's no parent/child relationship.

They have to be independent. There are 6 DOF and each press release from unrelated company is laying claim to a different set of three.

 

[JoshuaJSlone]

This is about the translation detection. Gyration would take care of tilt and orientation measures

Both of the previous releases mention that their device will be used for tilt. Since I'm thinking the "multiple providers" theory matches best, I guess Gyration could always be yet another provider. Or they were just a path to this end that didn't work out.

 

[JoshuaJSlone]

They have to be independent. There are 6 DOF and each press release from unrelated company is laying claim to a different set of three.

Hmm... the ADI release does only ever use the word tilt in using the title Kirby's Tilt 'n Tumble, but the ADX330 page does describe it as "Motion and Tilt sensing".

The STMicroelectronics release, though, says "ST’s high-performance acceleration sensors that can detect the motion and tilt".

 

[Juice]

Both of the previous releases mention that their device will be used for tilt. Since I'm thinking the "multiple providers" theory matches best, I guess Gyration could always be yet another provider. Or they were just a path to this end that didn't work out.

It may be that they contracted separate manufacturers for the nunchuku and the wiimote proper.

This is a highly calibrated, highly sensitive instrument, and using completely separate technologies (both companies carry their own patents) and shoe-horning them into the same device to ease up on manufacturing pressure would result in a mayhem as users realized that half the wiimotes weren't as good as the other half (with people prying them open to check, then returning the ones that GAF likes less).

I just can't believe that if they're not splitting duty between the 6 DOF (which is still my prevailing thought, since the lateral 3 DOF are primarily sensor bar tied and the other 3 are not at all) that they plan on using two different technologies to serve the same role splitting the controller pool.

 

[jgkspsx]

It seems to me that both the wiimote and the nunchuk each independently have the same motion-sensing capabilities that DS3 does, but the wiimote has the absolute position sensing as well.

 

[PkunkFury]

from the PDF:

The ADXL330 is used to sense motion of the game player in three dimensions of freedom: forward-backward, left-right, and up-down.

I suppose this could be used for tilt if multiple chips are in each controller, measuring the acceleration of different areas of the controller to determine orientation. The way these chips work is by measuring the acceleration of the chip in space, so titlting the chip wouldn't mean anyhting. If they were used in Kriby Tilt n' Tumble, perhaps Kirby used acceleration sensing as well.

Normally the way devices like this work is by chaining multiple technologies together to get the best readings. i.e. the Sensor bar will be detecting position in space, which is sort of redundant with the accelerometers in place, but it ultimately leads to the best performance.
This pdf talks about the IS-900, one of the best VR tracking systems around right now. It combines accelerometers, gyros, and external tracking for excellent precision.

http://www.isense.com/support/downloads/IS900_Tech_Overview_Enhanced.pdf

Assuming we are seeing multiple providers for the wand technology, I hope it means the wand is using multiple sensors. It would not surprise me if the remote has internal gyros as well and tilting is detected seperately. However, if gyros are too expensive perhaps they have found a way to do all of it with the described technology.

I didn't read the STM info, so perhaps their chip has gyros alongside the inertial tracking...

Edit: yeah looks like STM takes care of both. And I like Juice's theory that the nunchuck and wiimote might use different chips. Perhaps one was cheaper than the other, so it is used for the nunchuck. from there site:

"Commercially available inertial MEMS sensors include different types that can sense movement in one, two, or even three linear axis.
Some types also directly sense rotational acceleration around one axis and others, gyroscopes, can implement the function of a Coriolis-effect, sensing the angolar rate. These sensors share the same principle of operation and sense movements by measuring changes in capacitance between moving and fixed structures."

 

[Juice]

Nice catch! I hadn't seen the mention of the IS-900. That thing is an absolute beast and completely explains why everyone who's played with the Wii has reported back it's remarkable precision.

Of course, the motion tracking coordinated with the sensor bar is really the extra push that adds triangulation ability as well as error checking with the lateral accelerometer.

This combined with the speaker, the wiimote really is quite a lot in a little package. I haven't heard any reports on weight and we won't know how long it takes to whip through a pair of double A's on it, but I have to imagine that the consumer cost (R&D aside) of this thing might end up being over $30 or $40 whole sale.

That'd be a huge break from tradition for Nintendo, whose only real bastion of retailer support last generation was the great accessory margins their MSRP's afforded retailers. I can't imagine seeing each wiimote/nunchuku going for $50, but after the revelations of the last couple weeks I'm afraid we might see it initially priced nearly that high.

 

[PkunkFury]

Nice catch! I hadn't seen the mention of the IS-900. That thing is an absolute beast and completely explains why everyone who's played with the Wii has reported back it's remarkable precision.

Of course, the motion tracking coordinated with the sensor bar is really the extra push that adds triangulation ability as well as error checking with the lateral accelerometer.

:lol yes, the IS-900 is a beast, but it also costs thousands of dollars fortunately, i think we can expect the wiimote to work like a mini IS-900 (using infra-red instead of ultrasound, and cheaper MEMS). I believe intersense makes their own MEMS with on board accelerometers and gyros based off of tech designed at MIT. Some intersense devices use up to 6 MEMS for tracking. I'm not sure how STM and ADI MEMS compare


and the sensor bar will indeed give the extra push for error checking and on the fly callibration. This is where we should see a difference between the DS3 and the wiimote. Otherwise they are using similar tech, possibly by different providers

 

[Beer Monkey]

This combined with the speaker, the wiimote really is quite a lot in a little package. I haven't heard any reports on weight and we won't know how long it takes to whip through a pair of double A's on it, but I have to imagine that the consumer cost (R&D aside) of this thing might end up being over $30 or $40 whole sale.

Ouch. What about peripherals like Maracas, that would only need limited functions. No speaker, no rotation, no lights, one button. You really only need two-dimensional positioning to approximate the Dreamcast functionality.

 

[Dragona Akehi]

That this means the wiimote isn't run via Pikmin magic?

 

[Juice]

That this means the wiimote isn't run via Pikmin magic?

Unfortunately, Pikmin magic has been relegated exclusively to the speaker in the wiimote. Each wiimote is packed in with a yellow, blue, and red Pikmin and they coordinate their screams to emulate a full range of sounds. The yellows handle the high notes, of course.

 

[JoshuaJSlone]

Hey guys, here's yet another company involved in some aspect of the controller, PixArt. This is a press release from yesterday.

PIXART TEAMS WITH NINTENDO FOR SENSOR
TRACKING TECHNOLOGY FOR Wii™ CONTROLLER
Pixart’s Tracking Sensor Technology Provides
Quick, Responsive Play Experience on Wii Remote

May 11, 2006. PixArt Imaging Incorporation (PixArt), a market leader in CMOS sensor SoC (System-On-a-Chip) and related application semiconductors, today announces a strategic relationship with Nintendo Co., Ltd., to provide object tracking technology for Nintendo’s new-generation gaming controller, the Wii Remote. PixArt’s premium tracking technology will enable Nintendo to present innovative interaction gaming controllers for its new-generation gaming platform, Wii.

PixArt’s Multi-Object TrackingTM engine (MOT sensorTM) technology can track multiple objects in an unbelievably quick and responsive way. As a result, Nintendo can enable its new gaming controller to interact with people by tracking the movement of the Wii Remote. The playing experience will be unprecedented, exciting and easy, even for young children or older people who cannot operate the traditional gaming controllers.

“PixArt’s technology enables a quick, dynamic play experience,” commented Genyo Takeda, Senior Managing Director/General Manager, Integrated Research & Development Division, Nintendo Co., Ltd. “With PixArt’s technology, Nintendo will usher in a new era of video games.”

“It is PixArt’s pleasure to partner with Nintendo, a technology leader, to launch the most powerful and pleasing solution for a gaming platform,” said Sen Huang, Chief Executive Officer of PixArt. “The Multiple-Object TrackingTM engine (MOT sensorTM) has the highest performance ever in the market, and teaming with Nintendo means a gaming experience that is truly intuitive and inspiringly easy.”

“In the world of interaction, every realistic operation can be simulated in a computerized game. Through play of such simulation, any person can learn very quickly and efficiently in a virtual way. Integrated tracking technology from proven vendors like PixArt will enhance the gaming experience for the overwhelming majority of all-generation gamers.” said Sen Huang.

About Nintendo
The worldwide innovator in the creation of interactive entertainment, Nintendo Co., Ltd., of Kyoto, Japan, manufactures and markets hardware and software for its Nintendo DS™, Game Boy® Advance and Nintendo GameCube™ systems, and upcoming Wii™ console. Since 1983, Nintendo has sold more than 2 billion video games and more than 360 million hardware units globally, and has created industry icons like Mario™, Donkey Kong®, Metroid®, Zelda™ and Pokémon®. A wholly owned subsidiary, Nintendo of America Inc., based in Redmond, Wash., serves as headquarters for Nintendo’s operations in the Western Hemisphere. For more information about Nintendo, visit the company’s Web site at www.nintendo.com.

About PixArt
Founded in July 1998, PixArt Technologies specializes in the design, research and production of CMOS image sensors. PixArt has extensive experiences in analog, image sensor and image processing IC design, and is one of the leading global providers of CMOS image sensors.

Pixart have four main product lines,
1. Standard Raw Data Image Sensors, specs ranging from 20K pixel PAS109 QQVGA up to 3M pixel PAS5311 QXGA.
2. Image DSP IC solutions for mobile camera applications.
3. Optical Mouse, including a new Laser mouse co-developed with OPDI Denmark.
4. Intelligent Sensor SOC Solutions, applications range from embedded twin turbo 8051 MCU's PAC107 sensor, USB CIF/VGA PC Camera to the new Motion-Tracking sensor.

These four product lines add up to a 95 M US dollar revenue in year 2005, making Pixart the largest CMOS sensor design company in Taiwan, Listing on Taiwan Stock Exchange (Taiwan OTC 3227), Please visit www.Pixart.com.tw , for more information on Pixart.
# # #

I'm looking at PixArt's site, but it seems a bit crappy and out-of-date. It's not obvious to me which product is the one in the remote, or at least which is the closest.

 

[Kroole]

That this means the wiimote isn't run via Pikmin magic?

You know, someone has to pass the data between all that fancy electronics.

 

[jgkspsx]

So the wand is being tracked by a camera (PixArt make optical sensors)? Geez, I wonder if an EyeToy 2 could incorporate similar technology.

 

[PkunkFury]

Hey guys, here's yet another company involved in some aspect of the controller, PixArt. This is a press release from yesterday.



I'm looking at PixArt's site, but it seems a bit crappy and out-of-date. It's not obvious to me which product is the one in the remote, or at least which is the closest.

thanks for the info

that website is pure class /sarcasm

so that's the optical tracking, the last peice of the puzzle. and we've heard that the CMOS sensors are actually in the remote and not in the sensor bar from people on the show floor. This could effectively makes the remote a camera, though I'm not sure how good the sensors are

Active CMOS sensors are preffereable to CCD for motion tracking. THey are also low power consumption

 

[jgkspsx]

we've heard that the CMOS sensors are actually in the remote and not in the sensor bar from people on the show floor. This could effectively makes the remote a camera, though I'm not sure how good the sensors are

Haha, cool. One of my first thoughts way back when was that the "sensor bar" was just the opposite: a set of beacons that the remote could track its position in relation to. I think I was right, and I think that makes the calculations much easier to do.

 

[godofcookery]

Haha, cool. One of my first thoughts way back when was that the "sensor bar" was just the opposite: a set of beacons that the remote could track its position in relation to. I think I was right, and I think that makes the calculations much easier to do.

does that mean that tracking position (not just movement) along the Z-axis is possible in this manner?

 

[BorkBork]

Can someone sum up this stuff so the laymen can understand it? Pikminese if possible.

 

[BudokaiMR2]

Details hurt my head. Can I get a rating out of /10 for fun

j\k

Sounds pretty cool, and from what my teeny brain could understand, impressive as hell.

 

[Pedigree Chum]

The only thing I wish the wiimote had is weights that shifted based on the onscreen action.

Imagine weights tugging in one direction while you're trying to wringle a fish?

 

[Deleted member 10571]

Can someone sum up this stuff so the laymen can understand it? Pikminese if possible.

One blue Pikmin, who knows how the weemote is moved, one red one, who compares that with the screen to give feedback to the blue one, and one yellow pikmin who screams aloud if something happens. Or similar.

 

[Galactic Fork]

I love NeoGAF!
Anyway, so the Accelerometers will determine orientation and motion of the controller. And the CMOS sensors will detect location in 3d space and motion as well.

Now if the actual CMOS sensor is in the controller itself, and the little round lens in the front is the optic for that sensor, then what about all those pictures of the controller pointing away from the sensor-bar (or is it more of a beacon?)? From the press releases, it seems the accelerometers are able to calculate location in 3d space. How exact is that anyway? I guess it could estimate while it's pointing away, then refresh the new location when the sensor sees the bar again.

I really don't trust accelerometers to maintain exact positioning calculation for an extended period of time, especially in a video game setting where your hands may be jittery or jerky.

 

[PkunkFury]

I really don't trust accelerometers to maintain exact positioning calculation for an extended period of time, especially in a video game setting where your hands may be jittery or jerky.

exactly, the accelerometers can measure translations in space but they are prone to drift which aggregates over time, so they don't work as well when you want to keep track of position (like for a pointing game, or an FPS). Accelerometers are more for detecting quick jolts with the controller in a particular direction (stabbing down with the nunchuck in Zelda to finish enemies, or forward in Prime to fire grapple beam). Both the Nunchuck and the dualShock are using accelerometers, but not position tracking.

The sensor bar is for locking the position of the remote in 3 space. It provides an external reference so the remote can calculate it's position in relation to the sensor nodes. The accelerometer data can be used to help when the sensor bar fails. if you wave the controller around and point the remote at the sensor again, the game (hopefully) can go off of accelertion data until the tracker bar finds the eye again. The two work together to try and cover all necessary situations with good accuracy.

I really want to know more about the CMOS sensor. Does anyone know how the sensors normally used for motion tracking work? Could the remote function as a digital camera using the sensor? Webcams are really cheap these days, and as long as they were including a CMOS sensor I'd think they'd make it able to take pictures as well, unless a different type of sensor must be used for the IR tracking.

 

[SpoonyBard]

I really want to know more about the CMOS sensor. Does anyone know how the sensors normally used for motion tracking work? Could the remote function as a digital camera using the sensor? Webcams are really cheap these days, and as long as they were including a CMOS sensor I'd think they'd make it able to take pictures as well, unless a different type of sensor must be used for the IR tracking.

Normal digital cameras can "see" IR light. You can take picture of a normal TV remote signal, or see it from a camera screen. I guess a webcam can be used as a sensor, but refresh rate and accuracy are not going to be very good.

 

[PkunkFury]

Normal digital cameras can "see" IR light. You can take picture of a normal TV remote signal, or see it from a camera screen. I guess a webcam can be used as a sensor, but refresh rate and accuracy are not going to be very good.

awesome, thanks for the info. I'm sure the sensors are tweaked to optimize refresh rate as opposed to picture since they are meant for tracking, just wondering if this was in any way possible

 

[sprsk]

so how does the wiimote gyro compare to the sony gyro?

 

[Galactic Fork]

awesome, thanks for the info. I'm sure the sensors are tweaked to optimize refresh rate as opposed to picture since they are meant for tracking, just wondering if this was in any way possible

I am really curious about the refresh rate, as well as the viewing angle of the sensor. I'd imagine while the sensor has contact with the bar on the tv, it could also be used for measuring orientation (pitch, yaw, etc.). So many possible redundancies making it even more precise.

 

[Emotions]

so how does the wiimote gyro compare to the sony gyro?

Wiimote= Gimmick
Sony Gyro= Innovation

best way to explain it

 

[PkunkFury]

so how does the wiimote gyro compare to the sony gyro?

well the Sony gyro doesn't work alongside rumble features of any sort for one

 

[PkunkFury]

I am really curious about the refresh rate, as well as the viewing angle of the sensor. I'd imagine while the sensor has contact with the bar on the tv, it could also be used for measuring orientation (pitch, yaw, etc.). So many possible redundancies making it even more precise.

This is a good observation. IR sensors could definitely add info for the tilt of the remote around the axis which is perpendicular to the sensor bar (long ways)

I'm not entirely sure how the sensor bar allows depth tracking (if it even can) now that the sensor is actually in the remote. However, if it is sensing depth then I imagine it can get the other rotations from the IR as well.

i have no idea about refresh rate and viewing angle

 

[Galactic Fork]

well the Sony gyro doesn't work alongside rumble features of any sort for one

I'm actually curious how much truth or fiction is in there. Sony claims it has nothing to do with the lawsuit. So what if Nintendo has a deal for really sensitive accelerometers that can be unaffected by the rumble? Or maybe worked with the company for that end.

 

[MrPing1000]

I'm actually curious how much truth or fiction is in there. Sony claims it has nothing to do with the lawsuit. So what if Nintendo has a deal for really sensitive accelerometers that can be unaffected by the rumble? Or maybe worked with the company for that end.

or maybe they do sorta affect it. Which could be put to good use as well.

 

[SpoonyBard]

I'm actually curious how much truth or fiction is in there. Sony claims it has nothing to do with the lawsuit. So what if Nintendo has a deal for really sensitive accelerometers that can be unaffected by the rumble? Or maybe worked with the company for that end.

Maybe the Wii games that use rumble only use it when the controller uses IR or tilt sensors, and rumble is disabled when accelometers are used? But then if the same sensor actually has accelometer and a tilt sensor functions (and by tilt sensor, I mean a sensor that measures the angle against gravity) then it may not work. Or maybe only the nunchuck part has an intergated sensor, and the remote part has seperate tilt sensors and accelometers. Maybe Sony is talking bullshit. Difficult to say at this point...

 

[Galactic Fork]

Maybe the Wii games that use rumble only use it when the controller uses IR or tilt sensors, and rumble is disabled when accelometers are used? But then if the same sensor actually has accelometer and a tilt sensor functions (and by tilt sensor, I mean a sensor that measures the angle against gravity) then it may not work. Or maybe only the nunchuck part has an intergated sensor, and the remote part has seperate tilt sensors and accelometers. Maybe Sony is talking bullshit. Difficult to say at this point...

You know when the Wii is finally released there are going to be sooo many sites taking them apart just to see what's all in there. Guess we wait till November to know for sure. I'm not opening my Controller, that's for sure.