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Wii U GPU base specs: 160 ALUs, 8 TMUs, 8 ROPs; Rumor: Wii U hardware was downgraded

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NateDrake

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That demo was running on Wii U hardware from 2011, before the rumors of the overheating hardware came out.

Still doesn't prove a damn thing. We don't know the extent of the downgrade, nor do we know what type of resources were used in the demo. Until other information is shared, your statement is bullshit.
 

Shogmaster

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This is Iwata's Nintendo we're talking about here.

Tooling a new bigger case would cause delay of months, not to mention throwing away the already expensive steel molds.

Tweaking down the GPU was probably the easiest fix.
 

Ishida

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Also, the Wii U can't handle the Zelda tech demo shown at E3 2011 anymore...

The Demo was nothing impressive. It didn't look better than games like God of War Ascencion, for example.

Of course the Wii U should be able to run it. In fact I expect the next Zelda game to look like that, or better.
 

Spongebob

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Note: There are probably more optimizations that could be done for the Zelda tech demo to make it better (run better), just saying that as it was, the current Wii U would most likely run that code worse.

Still doesn't prove a damn thing. We don't know the extent of the downgrade, nor do we know what type of resources were used in the demo. Until other information is shared, your statement is bullshit.
My statement isn't 100%, but it's highly likely. The statement from the Vigil devs hinted at this a while ago (it's in the OP). It was a tech demo, while it's possible they weren't maxing out the old Wii U's resources, it's unlikely.

The Demo was nothing impressive. It didn't look better than games like God of War Ascencion, for example.

Of course the Wii U should be able to run it. In fact I expect the next Zelda game to look like that, or better.
I'm going to have to disagree with that ;)

It will probably look better.
 
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That demo was running on Wii U hardware from 2011, quite a bit before the rumors of the overheating hardware came out.


I don't think "X" is that impressive from a technical standpoint.

The quality of the demo isn't entirely dependent on how much the console was downgraded. That demo most likely didn't take much time to make, plus Nintendo obviously has a better grasp on HD development now. It's possible they could make that demo better looking even if the hardware is a little weaker.
 

bgassassin

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Oh, so you got new info?

Yeah. Should bring some finality to the back-and-forth on this topic.

Also, the Wii U can't handle the Zelda tech demo shown at E3 2011 anymore...

As already mentioned that's not a conclusion that can be made with this info.


Nah. This info pretty much for me confirms the J blocks in the GPU die shot are Interpolators and those were dropped with the 5000 series because interpolation was handled by the shaders if I remember correctly.

Interesting timing to create this thread about a rumor...

Not sure what the timing would be, but whatever it is it's nothing but coincidence. And the rumor is only half of the OP.
 

Schnozberry

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Did anyone confirm the numbers, or are we relying on inferences based on hints given from anonymous sources?
 
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DAT balanceeeeeee!!

Hate this word.
 
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Note: There are probably more optimizations that could be done for the Zelda tech demo to make it better (run better), just saying that as it was, the current Wii U would most likely run that code worse.


My statement isn't 100%, but it's highly likely. The statement from the Vigil devs hinted at this a while ago (it's in the OP). It was a tech demo, while it's possible they weren't maxing out the old Wii U's resources, it's unlikely.


I'm going to have to disagree with that ;)

It will probably look better.

Where did they hint at how Zelda would run on the WiiU? You're a crappy troll at this point.
 

phosphor112

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Somewhere, Krizz is crying.

Also, I was attacked for saying that the hardware was downgraded. Of course it was contrary to what everyone else believed... and granted I guessed, but still. =[

Thanks for the confirmation though. It's much needed.

Any idea about the chipset?
 

Spongebob

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As already mentioned that's not a conclusion that can be made with this info.
You're right, it's not an absolute conclusion that can be made from this info, but you'd be rather disingenuous to say that it's a statement with no possibly reality in it.

The Wii U GPU (if your info is correct) is less capable than it was before (back in the time of E3 2011).

Where did they hint at how Zelda would run on the WiiU? You're a crappy troll at this point.
Poorly worded, but I'm sure you know what I mean.
 

McSpidey

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Other rumours/info not withstanding I wouldn't say any info about them engineering thermals with priority on having a small case is new info. This has been their MO since the original Wii. If anything the WiiU being bigger than the Wii says they compromised for performance this round, not against.
 
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You're right, it's not an absolute conclusion that can be made from this info, but you'd be rather disingenuous to say that it's a statement with no possibly reality in it.

The Wii U GPU (if your info is correct) is less capable than it was before (back in the time of E3 2011).

Dude, enough with the shitty bullshit posts. No one is arguing that the new GPU is less capable, that is a given. People are instead getting mad at your bullshit of what now does and does not run even though you have no proof of anything.

Poorly worded, but I'm sure you know what I mean.

No, it's not poor wording. You're just now finally trying to backpedal slightly from your bullshit posts. Just stop making up nonsense that wasn't even said nor implied.
 
Dec 28, 2005
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You're right, it's not an absolute conclusion that can be made from this info, but you'd be rather disingenuous to say that it's a statement with no possibly reality in it.

The Wii U GPU (if your info is correct) is less capable than it was before (back in the time of E3 2011).


Poorly worded, but I'm sure you know what I mean.
And how do you know the Zelda demo was pushing the GPU at the time? You don't know. You will never know.
 

Spongebob

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Dude, enough with the shitty bullshit posts. No one is arguing that the new GPU is less capable, that is a given. People are instead getting mad at your bullshit of what now does and does not run even though you have no proof of anything.



No, it's not poor wording. You're just now finally trying to backpedal slightly from your bullshit posts. Just stop making up nonsense that wasn't even said nor implied.

I edited my post to clarify that I'm not attempting to make an absolute conclusion.

The Wii U GPU is weaker than it was before (Nintendo scaled down # of ALUs) and devs (Vigil) noticed that games run worse than before. It's a possibility that the tech demo (as it was, same code) wouldn't be able to run on the Wii U.
 
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I edited my post to clarify that I'm not attempting to make an absolute conclusion.

The Wii U GPU is weaker than it was before (Nintendo scaled down # of ALUs) and devs (Vigil) noticed that games run worse than before. It's a possibility that the tech demo (as it was, same code) wouldn't be able to run on the Wii U.

This post isn't even in the same ballpark of what you said before.
 

Spongebob

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And how do you know the Zelda demo was pushing the GPU at the time? You don't know. You will never know.
You're right, you can't say that 100% for sure, but it's unlikely given that the purpose of a tech demo is to push hardware and show what it can do.

This isn't to say that the next Zelda can't look better than that tech demo, it can. There's definitely a distinct possibility (a decent one for sure) that the Wii U as it is now wouldn't be able to run that code as well.

This post isn't even in the same ballpark of what you said before.
Yes it is. My original post was significantly more blunt about it though.
 

Schnozberry

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I edited my post to clarify that I'm not attempting to make an absolute conclusion.

The Wii U GPU is weaker than it was before (Nintendo scaled down # of ALUs) and devs (Vigil) noticed that games run worse than before. It's a possibility that the tech demo (as it was, same code) wouldn't be able to run on the Wii U.

There was a clock bump late in development and significant API improvements since Vigil made their comment. We really have no reason to believe that it wouldn't be able to run something along the lines of the Zelda Demo. We don't even know what it was downgraded from, or if the downgrade was ALU's or clockspeed or whatever.
 

liquidspeed

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Same number of geometry engines but lower clock speed (800 vs 853).

Dont worry though the deficit is hardly meaningful.

Thanks :)

Its interesting seeing the gpu specs for all of the relevant platforms side by side.

On topic: love stuff like Mario Kart, but Nintendo's hardware decisions just turn me off... Maybe once I have a (relatively) higher paying job, I might be able to bite the bullet and buy more than 1 console.
 

bgassassin

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Any idea about the chipset?

I would say it's definitely descended from the 4000 series based on the specs and as I mentioned (you were probably making this post and missed it) pretty much guarantees the J blocks to be Interpolators.

You're right, it's not an absolute conclusion that can be made from this info, but you'd be rather disingenuous to say that it's a statement with no possibly reality in it.

The Wii U GPU (if your info is correct) is less capable than it was before (back in the time of E3 2011).


Poorly worded, but I'm sure you know what I mean.

I understand what you are trying to say. But also from a software perspective, I believe the demo was made in a very short time as well.

I need to get to bed.
 

Outtrigger888

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Hey guys. I finally caught up with someone I've talked with in the past. While the actual listed specs do not mention these exact numbers, with the die shot they are more than enough to confirm those numbers.

The 160/8/8 doesn't bother me. It's how they allegedly arrived at that which doesn't sit well with me. The allegation is that the Wii U hardware was downgraded due to overheating dev kits.

When I was here a few months ago I shared this in the Latte thread:



But in hindsight there may have been signs pointing to this. One was a comment from Vigil (we had forgot and thought Gearbox in the Latte thread).

http://www.computerandvideogames.com/312210/wii-u-development-has-been-a-little-tricky-admits-vigil/



I know when this first came out we speculated on that being due to architectural changes.

The other sign comes from Nintendo themselves.

http://iwataasks.nintendo.com/interviews/#/wiiu/console/0/1



So consolidating all of that would say Nintendo chose a smaller case over more power.

Again this is a rumor. But I wanted to draw more attention to it in the hope that others out there could confirm or deny the hardware downgrade.

How does that quote from Nintendo help your case?

First, its Nintendo had overheating issues, so they down graded the hardware and put it in a smaller case.

Next, its Nintendo planned on a small case from the start.

Maybe, i missed something. Kind of late, over here.
 

Spongebob

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I would say it's definitely descended from the 4000 series based on the specs and as I mentioned (you were probably making this post and missed it) pretty much guarantees the J blocks to be Interpolators.



I understand what you are trying to say. But also from a software perspective, I believe the demo was made in a very short time as well.

I need to get to bed.
Thanks for understanding lol, I understand what you're saying and I think that's definitely a possibility, but....
 

sfried

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550mhz. It was 400mhz up until literally right before launch games went gold. CPU clock was bumped from 1ghz to 1.25ghz as well at the same time.
Wait, is this Latte and Expresso respectively? I never knew the CPU got a clock up.
 

onQ123

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550mhz. It was 400mhz up until literally right before launch games went gold. CPU clock was bumped from 1ghz to 1.25ghz as well at the same time.

So it's only 176GFLOPS?

wow Nintendo PS4 is 10X as powerful as the Wii U & only $50 more than the launch price.
 

bgassassin

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How does that quote from Nintendo help your case?

First, its Nintendo had overheating issues, so they down graded the hardware and put it in a smaller case.

Next, its Nintendo planned on a small case from the start.

Maybe, i missed something. Kind of late, over here.

No problem. A different way to say it is that they had both a power target and a case size target from the beginning. Once they realized the power target would not work with case size target, the latter was given priority or may have always had priority. Hopefully that clears up that misunderstanding.
 

Instro

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Iwata - Was making the casing smaller a clear target from the start? Kitano-san?

Kitano - Yes. At the start of development, Takeda-san gave us the task of making the console a "stagehand", a kind of unobtrusive role behind the scenes.

This is why Takeda needs to be replaced, along with anyone else responsible for Nintendo's current philosophies.
 

Visualante2

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This is why Takeda needs to be replaced, along with anyone else responsible for Nintendo's current philosophies.
Hey you never know, with the way things are going in the West all but the 1% will probably live in Japan sized dwellings soon!
 

OryoN

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Thanks for the info BG.

But, some of the comments in this thread... yikes.

Haven't we been down this road before? Nintendo - like every other hardware manufacturer - had a set budget(both in money & silicon), and they utilized it the best way they saw fit. People are talking about gimping the hardware, yet they ignore the Gamepad, which costed them almost as much as the console itself. I'm sure if they went with a standard controller, they could have put more under the hood. However, in the end, you'd just end up with a console that is still a bit weaker than XB1, and worst yet, absolutely nothing unique about it.

Whether people appreciate the Gamepad or not doesn't matter, but there's a difference between simply gimping something, and actually utilizing your $$ on other areas you believe are important. Apparently Nintendo set out to build a modestly powerful console, with features they believe can set them apart from the competition, and the intent on having the lower price. It's hard to argue that they failed to deliver that. I'm already impressed with what the Wii U can do, and it's still in it's first year. I can't imagine what we'll see years from now! So - if anyone wasn't already aware of this fact - base specs alone never tell the full performance story.
 

Outtrigger888

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No problem. A different way to say it is that they had both a power target and a case size target from the beginning. Once they realized the power target would not work with case size target, the latter was given priority or may have always had priority. Hopefully that clears up that misunderstanding.

Ahh, i see.



edit: I just realized they downgraded the clockspeeds, right? Not physical hardware?

I need to go to bed...
 

Argyle

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So it's only 176GFLOPS?

wow Nintendo PS4 is 10X as powerful as the Wii U & only $50 more than the launch price.

So if I am understanding this right it's basically straight up less powerful than the Xbox 360, both CPU and GPU :(
 
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