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Wii U Speculation Thread 2: Can't take anymore of this!!!

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R

Rösti

Unconfirmed Member
First of all, nice contribute, IdeaMan, and welcome to the boards. While we've heard of similar details about the system before, your post certainly reinstates belief in Wii U being stronger than Xbox 360 regarding hardware, so thank you.

Furthermore, someone mentioned bingo:

bingofyick.png


Template: http://www.abload.de/img/bingo_template_gdcn1dot.png
 

IdeaMan

My source is my ass!
I must stress that i've said some components are 4x/5x more powerful, more in quantity, than on the xbox360, not all of them. (Again, from what i know, read all this with caution).

So don't multiply the CPU cores/frequency/cache/IPS - the special memory like Edram - the Memory type/quantity/bandwidth/latency - the GPU type/frequency/flops by 5x. It's just some of these parts that "look 5x" on paper. Some others will maybe look 2x, 3x, etc.
 

pestul

Member
I must stress that i've said some components are 4x/5x more powerful, more in quantity, than on the xbox360, not all of them. (Again, from what i know, read all this with caution).

So don't multiply the CPU cores/frequency/cache/IPS - the special memory like Edram - the Memory type/quantity/bandwidth/latency - the GPU type/frequency/flops by 5x. It's just some of these parts that "look 5x" on paper.
Can you confirm that all elements are indeed more powerful though? They might seem faster on paper, but are they all at least 1:1?
 

z0m3le

Banned
2x is again exactly what we got from earlier devkit information... The RV770LE in earlier devkits, if it was true at all, did slightly over 2x the performance (~2.3x) of the Xenos chip. If you downclock an HD7770 (just as an example because it represents current AMD tech) to the Xenos clock rate of 500 MHz, you get exactly double the performance in many areas simply because it has double the capacity in terms of texture units and render output units. Furthermore, it could vastly outperform Xenos in shading power, by simply having much more (HD7770 has 3-3.5 amount of shaders) and being a more efficient architecture. Which explains this "4-5x" figure.

What puzzles me is that Arkam claims indicating the devkit was less powerful than the Xbox. If Nintendo uses a chip like that, it should be obvious to anybody that it makes itself a decent gap when compared to the 360. It seems to suggest that something else was used in the devkit, likely a Redwood or Turks GPU (which improve in shader performance over Xenos, but not much in other areas). After all the rumours we've heard I would be very disappointed if Nintendo went for such a low end chip. If Nintendo would go to lengths to customize a chip based on new technology, solely benchmarked by a seven-year old GPU, then we can definitely conclude that they stopped caring about power.

Yeah, I find it really weird, but I think both Wii U and x720 is based off of Turks, I hope a lot of the more important components were exchanged out, such as tessilization... The rumor of 6670 being x720's gpu is still super puzzling, but maybe it was advanced and cheap enough 2+ years ago that both MS and N thought they could do enough with it.

It also makes perfect sense with what Arkam said about a GPU that has decent features but no teeth, that's exactly how I would describe turks. In the end though, it really won't matter, because devs can make a turks powered game look amazing on a console.
 

DCKing

Member
I must stress that i've said some components are 4x/5x more powerful, more in quantity, than on the xbox360, not all of them. (Again, from what i know, read all this with caution).

So don't multiply the CPU cores/frequency/cache/IPS - the special memory like Edram - the Memory type/quantity/bandwidth/latency - the GPU type/frequency/flops by 5x. It's just some of these parts that "look 5x" on paper.
(Near) 5x in shading power/shader processors seems by far the most likely here. Slightly over 2x theoretical performance for the rest of the GPU. It fits with earlier rumours.

It also makes perfect sense with what Arkam said about a GPU that has decent features but no teeth, that's exactly how I would describe turks.
Decent features but lack of teeth could also mean a horribly downclocked or otherwise compromised RV770LE to me.
 
I just hope Wii U's GPU has 16 render output units for greater fillrate compared to the current HD consoles. I think it was a mistake for the current HD consoles to have only 8 ROPs. That's why framerates are so bad this generation, AFAIK.
 
Wow, I'm impressed...a lot of posts over the week-end.
But nothing really happened or?
New leaks?

BTW want to summarize some things (if you look on paper/specs only - not how complicated it was to code for them):
– NES was a great piece of hardware but Master System was stronger
– SNES oh I loved that machine (dreaming) but Mega Drive was stronger, Nintendo tried to compensate it releasing the super FX-chip later (very good one)
– N64 (the last console that deserve to call itself CONSOLE imo (cartridges))was on paper the most powerful
– Gamecube was stronger than PS2 and maybe on par with xbox.
– Wii...we all know it was superior in Multiplayer/Party-gaming
– Wii u hmm, imo will be on par with both other consoles, you will see...

What are some people fearing here?
Dont get it at all, even that some are saying Wii u is weak and doomed...

Be aware, Nintendo will surprise us all!!
If not (on paper) with the strongest HW it will be once again with great games and gameplay!


What will each of the next gen plats provide us with??
RIGHT 720 or 1080p!!
The differences will be really small does it really matter if one multiplat-title have a character on console 1 with 1000 details on console 2 with 1015 details and on console 3 with 1020 details?
I dont think so.

Games/consoles are about fun and I'm sure the Wii U will provide that.
I really hope that it will be possible with that controller to play a game on the big screen and to stream my favorite soccer match to the controller!!
That would be awesome!!

I'm sorry but "– Wii...we all know it was superior in Multiplayer/Party-gaming" isn't as cut and dry as you'd like.

I found the Wii to be HORRIBLE in multiplayer gaming. It was ok for Party-gaming for a few games, most being Wii Sports. But dance games appeared on Kinect and PS3. Musicle games too. Wii was the worst of the three for online multiplayer. Wii was the worst when it comes to 3rd party support. Wii was the worst when it came to HDD. Wii was the worst in many many areas that are very important to gaming. While the Wii may have been a success for Nintendo financially, it was a failure for many many gamers.

Also, it isn't just about prettier graphics. It's about having more enemies on the screen. Better AI. Better load times. More possibilities with better hardware. Every generation people have been able to notice a difference visually between the new and old and this next generation won't be any different.

I'm excited for the Wii U and found the Zelda demo to be amazing but lets be honest, the problem has never been whether Nintendo would put out amazingly gorgeous games, the question has and will continue to be if 3rd parties will also. Unless the hardware is competent and competitive with the other two boxes, 3rd parties will put out crappy ports of NEXT gen games.
 

EatChildren

Currently polling second in Australia's federal election (first in the Gold Coast), this feral may one day be your Bogan King.
I might be a bit out of the loop, but is there a reason some of you seem to be expecting news out of GDC? Or just wishful thinking?

I know Nintendo occasionally lets slip new details at GDC, but it's usually during keynotes, of which this year Iwata/Miyamoto/Reggie/Nintendo have none. Outside of this their GDC presence is usually minimal at best.

There's always a chance engine technology will show up, but I'd expect that stuff to be shown behind closed doors, as Nintendo appears dead set on keeping cards close to their chest until E3. We all know what the Nintendo ninjas are like, so I don't really expect many, if any leaks, and honestly nothing at all official.

Unless I missed something?
 
I might be a bit out of the loop, but is there a reason some of you seem to be expecting news out of GDC? Or just wishful thinking?

I know Nintendo occasionally lets slip new details at GDC, but it's usually during keynotes, of which this year Iwata/Miyamoto/Reggie/Nintendo have none. Outside of this their GDC presence is usually minimal at best.

There's always a chance engine technology will show up, but I'd expect that stuff to be shown behind closed doors, as Nintendo appears dead set on keeping cards close to their chest until E3. We all know what the Nintendo ninjas are like, so I don't really expect many, if any leaks, and honestly nothing at all official.

Unless I missed something?

If Reggie/Iwata was talking to some kids outside the headquarters during a break, people would make Bingo cards.

This is why Nintendo non-news is better than anyone else's non-news.
 

EatChildren

Currently polling second in Australia's federal election (first in the Gold Coast), this feral may one day be your Bogan King.
If Reggie was talking to some kids outside the headquarters during a break, people would make Bingo cards.

This is why Nintendo non-news is better than anyone else's non-news.

I think I'll just re-use my E3 2011 bingo card then :p.
 

Bit-Bit

Member
Based on what IdeaMan is saying, I'm expecting a jump similar to the PS3 version of Battlefield 3 compared to the maxed out version on PC.

Things improved includes hi-res textures, tons of geometry, better lighting, effects, and AA. If the Wii U can produce that on average, than I think we're all going to be very happy.


The thing is, playing just the PS3 or Xbox version, most gamers will just get use to the way it looks. But once you play the PC version on Max, you can't go back to playing the PS3 and Xbox version.
 

AmFreak

Member
(Near) 5x in shading power/shader processors seems by far the most likely here. Slightly over 2x theoretical performance for the rest of the GPU. It fits with earlier rumours.

I would say memory is more likely, 4-5 would net you 2-2.5 GB seems a little high at first, but DevKit's usually have more memory then the final console due to debugging.
 

guek

Banned
I might be a bit out of the loop, but is there a reason some of you seem to be expecting news out of GDC? Or just wishful thinking?

I know Nintendo occasionally lets slip new details at GDC, but it's usually during keynotes, of which this year Iwata/Miyamoto/Reggie/Nintendo have none. Outside of this their GDC presence is usually minimal at best.

There's always a chance engine technology will show up, but I'd expect that stuff to be shown behind closed doors, as Nintendo appears dead set on keeping cards close to their chest until E3. We all know what the Nintendo ninjas are like, so I don't really expect many, if any leaks, and honestly nothing at all official.

Unless I missed something?

It's mostly wishful thinking. People are expecting something to leak since an official announcement is highly unlikely.
 
I think I'll just re-use my E3 2011 bingo card then :p.

Yeah, just save the 2x bigger card for E3.

Can you imagine what will be on that one????

In fact, I am not sure the next E3 is going to be long enough for the amount of content Nintendo will be showing.

Then again, I am totally inflating how much they have to show probably.
 

DCKing

Member
I would say memory is more likely, 4-5 would net you 2-2.5 GB seems a little high at first, but DevKit's usually have more memory then the final console due to debugging.
Good point, lherre has hinted at "more than 2GB" in the devkit. Which would be double of the retail unit. 640 or 800 SPUs are not really 5 times the 240 SPUs of Xenos, although they may perform as such eventually.
 

aeroslash

Member
Very nice first post IdeaMan and welcome from a newcomer to a newcomer. I'm from the other side of the pyrenees. I think that something like your post was what this thread needed.

I still hope there's a considerable jump between current gen and wii u. It has to be pretty obvious because if that's not the case, it will be impossible to get the core gamers...
 
Given Nintendo's traditional focus on efficiency, I'd be a bit surprised if we see parts that indicate a 5x jump on paper that only result in a 2x jump in practice. Frankly, Nintendo's track record usually shows the opposite, though I guess there's still plenty of time for fine tuning and getting the most out of their architecture...
 

guek

Banned
Yeah, just save the 2x bigger card for E3.

Can you imagine what will be on that one????

In fact, I am not sure the next E3 is going to be long enough for the amount of content Nintendo will be showing.

Then again, I am totally inflating how much they have to show probably.

They seem to have really streamlined their presentations within the last year. They've tended to be game after game after game with announcements and footage progressing at a really brisk pace. I hope they keep using that model for their E3 presser.
 
R

Rösti

Unconfirmed Member
EatChildren, I made a list a few pages back regarding the news that have come from GDC both when Nintendo has had a keynote there and when they haven't: http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=35415514&postcount=10358

Also, the time seems right now for them to start talking. Reggie said in interviews with CNN and GameTrailers in conjunction with CES in January that they would share more information between then and E3. It may have been just shallow PR talk, but people are eager to find out more. You can also refer to this post: http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=35066014&postcount=6705
 

z0m3le

Banned
Based on what IdeaMan is saying, I'm expecting a jump similar to the PS3 version of Battlefield 3 compared to the maxed out version on PC.

Things improved includes hi-res textures, tons of geometry, better lighting, effects, and AA. If the Wii U can produce that on average, than I think we're all going to be very happy.



The thing is, playing just the PS3 or Xbox version, most gamers will just get use to the way it looks. But once you play the PC version on Max, you can't go back to playing the PS3 and Xbox version.

This is why I don't understand the doom and gloom of some posters, this is the PS3 vs PC, you could assume that PS4 will be < PC, and Wii U > PS3, so at the very worst, Wii U vs PS4 comparisons won't be as noticeable as that comparison.
 
They seem to have really streamlined their presentations within the last year. They've tended to be game after game after game with announcements and footage progressing at a really brisk pace. I hope they keep using that model for their E3 presser.

Yeah, they can sum up the games swiftly during the presentation and then have them on the showfloor playable and extra trailers afterwards.
 

Nibel

Member
We can be happy if we can get an extremely small piece of information from GDC. Probably another mediocre and anonymous developer who talks about the Wii U's power in percantages.
 

Anth0ny

Member
Are the odds of them having a price of the system at E3 low????

I would think it'd be all about games and the price a month or two later.

I think it's gonna depend on when they launch the console. If it's the traditional November launch, they'll probably announce the price during a September or October press conference. If it's earlier, like some are speculating, I think there's a chance we might here it at E3.

Nintendo is unpredictable.
 
Rösti;35524770 said:
EatChildren, I made a list a few pages back regarding the news that have come from GDC both when Nintendo has had a keynote there and when they haven't: http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=35415514&postcount=10358

Also, the time seems right now for them to start talking. Reggie said in interviews with CNN and GameTrailers in conjunction with CES in January that they would share more information between then and E3. It may have been just shallow PR talk, but people are eager to find out more. You can also refer to this post: http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=35066014&postcount=6705

Yeah I was gonn mention what Reggie said. If we are to expect tidbits before E3 then GDC isnt totally unreasonable.
 

EatChildren

Currently polling second in Australia's federal election (first in the Gold Coast), this feral may one day be your Bogan King.
Rösti;35524770 said:
EatChildren, I made a list a few pages back regarding the news that have come from GDC both when Nintendo has had a keynote there and when they haven't: http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=35415514&postcount=10358

Also, the time seems right now for them to start talking. Reggie said in interviews with CNN and GameTrailers in conjunction with CES in January that they would share more information between then and E3. It may have been just shallow PR talk, but people are eager to find out more. You can also refer to this post: http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=35066014&postcount=6705

It would be nice to hear something, and I agree, around now would be good to generate buzz. I did kinda take Reggie's "we may hear more earlier than E3" as PR dribble, honestly unsure what the Japanese heads who pull all the strings are planning exactly, and riding off the possibility that maybe they'll show something.
 

HylianTom

Banned
I think it's gonna depend on when they launch the console. If it's the traditional November launch, they'll probably announce the price during a September or October press conference. If it's earlier, like some are speculating, I think there's a chance we might here it at E3.

Nintendo is unpredictable.
I keep on changing my mind on when I want it to happen. October would be welcome, but I do not want to go through a launch in the middle of a move from apartment to house.

Looks like I have a very big box to check before summer is over.


He has been confirmed to be legit.

He's Sascha Baron Cohen.
In that case, he's very much a-OK in my book! I likey!
 

Bit-Bit

Member
Also, Nintendo really needs a graphical vehicle game to showcase at E3. Something that people can look at and immediately say "Wow, this isn't possible on current systems at all".

For that, I'm hoping they utilize one of their best developers, Retro Studio. Retro has the knowledge and know how to truly wow us. Either something sci-fi or fantasy based, Retro can truly pull off something amazing.
 

IdeaMan

My source is my ass!
Can you confirm that all elements are indeed more powerful though? They might seem faster on paper, but are they all at least 1:1?

That, i'm not sure.

I could be wrong, but for example, a newer IBM CPU on the Wii U may look "not as more-powerful-than-the-Xenon as i expected" to someone who just compare instructions per second ultra theoretical numbers which may moreover (so it's even more perilous to make a comparison), be indicated in different situations for each console. So the Wii U CPU could appear "just" like 1,2x Xenon. But it would be enough thanks to other optimizations dedicated to gaming on it, and coupled with a good gpu and memory.

But from what i've heard, from the impressions of my sources, the hardware has enough power to appear 2x Xbox360 on the screens. It implies then a good balance of each components (i doubt that the CPU is 0,5x the one in the Xbox360, the GPU is 8x, and the memory 10x), and Nintendo is rather known for that.
 
^ Balance in components is definitely a staple of Nintendo.

yeah, I don't really understand them basing the gpu around a 6670, but a custom part can easily achieve a much higher performance level, so maybe it had something it was targeting, and yes those are my same flop estimates, though I tend to think that they started a little bit lower and worked up around the max at the end... it will be very interesting, because if microsoft puts out an HD tablet controller, the difference in performance could be completely nil or even in Wii U's favor.

Or they don't take advantage of the HD to get more power on the main screen, eliminating the advantage of their tablet being HD.

I want to ask: has IdeaMan been "verified" with our mods?

(we asked the same of someone else, so I want to be fair here.)

:)

Well he didn't claim to work for a developer so I see that as being the difference. :)
 

guek

Banned
Also, Nintendo really needs a graphical vehicle game to showcase at E3. Something that people can look at and immediately say "Wow, this isn't possible on current systems at all".

For that, I'm hoping they utilize one of their best developers, Retro Studio. Retro has the knowledge and know how to truly wow us. Either something sci-fi or fantasy based, Retro can truly pull off something amazing.

I'd bet cold hard cash that retro will have something to show at E3. they've been ramping up development on something for months now, I think we'll at least get a title.
 

royalan

Member
Also, Nintendo really needs a graphical vehicle game to showcase at E3. Something that people can look at and immediately say "Wow, this isn't possible on current systems at all".

For that, I'm hoping they utilize one of their best developers, Retro Studio. Retro has the knowledge and know how to truly wow us. Either something sci-fi or fantasy based, Retro can truly pull off something amazing.

Agreed. If any Nintendo studio is working on something graphically impressive, it's Retro.

I wouldn't count Monolith out either. Xenoblade was one of the critical darlings of this gen. I bet they're just itching to follow it up with another great title. Really put their foot down as a team to be reckoned with.

I'd bet cold hard cash that retro will have something to show at E3. they've been ramping up development on something for months now, I think we'll at least get a title.

Actually, I'd be surprised if we didn't get a demo from Retro, or at least a pretty extensive trailer. They've been working on something for a while now, and rumors have put them in "crunch time" for a mystery title since last Summer. I bet whatever they've got coming is a launch title (launch window at most).
 

Donnie

Member
I would say memory is more likely, 4-5 would net you 2-2.5 GB seems a little high at first, but DevKit's usually have more memory then the final console due to debugging.

I don't see why he would be comparing the WiiU dev kit to a retail XBox 360. That wouldn't be a good comparison and he seems quite level headed from his posts (any comment Ideaman?).

Its possible that the 4-5x component is RAM of course, with WiiU having 2GB + extra eDram (as in the WiiU dev kit has 4GB RAM + eDram). But personally I'm with DCking in thinking that its likely the number of shader ops that are 4-5 times 360. 800 SPU's at 600Mhz would give that kind of shader performance.
 

Jarsonot

Member
Hmmm... For me, gaming on the Wii U is going to look great. I absolutely do not care about the specs, past what I've already read. I've read enough to understand that it will comfortably fall into "yup, that looks good" territory.

I love great graphics, but once I'm playing a game, I'm like... playing the game, man. I'm not critically eyeballing every detail looking for nitpicking little things to put into some supposed "cons" bullet point list.

Maybe it is generational? Playing on the Atari you had to use your imagination. Indiana Jones did not look a fucking thing like Indiana Jones. The point wasn't the graphics, the point was to have fun playing the game. Now that graphics are great I think it may be easier to point to slightly better graphics and claim a game is better, but c'mon man. I guess I feel like rating a game based on graphics is like rating a novel based on its typeset. Like, Ender's Game is good, but I would've liked it a lot more in Helvetica.

So basically, do you all think there's a real difference in the Wii Us future depending on what the final specs are? Given what we "know", we can guess a range of capability for the Wii U.

How different will it be if it comes out at the low end of that range than the high end? Will it affect it's success?
 
True. I'm trying to approach everything with a level head, but overlooked this very hastily.

I like what he's saying. It'd be very encouraging.

IMO the only problem with what Arkam said was that he blamed the hardware for their issue and was rather negative in context when talking about it. Other than that his info was rather legit.
 

Jocchan

Ὁ μεμβερος -ου
Perhaps Iwata will mention the codenames of the CPU and GPU at GDC.
Still convinced they're Espresso and Cappuccino.

IMO the only problem with what Arkam said was that he blamed the hardware for their issue and was rather negative in context when talking about it. Other than that his info was rather legit.
I'm still unconvinced about one very specific detail. But whatever.
 
I don't see why he would be comparing the WiiU dev kit to a retail XBox 360. That wouldn't be a good comparison and he seems quite level headed from his posts (any comment Ideaman?).

Its possible that the 4-5x component is RAM of course, with WiiU having 2GB + extra eDram (as in the WiiU dev kit has 4GB RAM + eDram). But personally I'm with DCking in thinking that its likely the number of shader ops that are 4-5 times 360. 800 SPU's at 600Mhz would give that kind of shader performance.


Great post ^__^
 
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