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[DrWong]

Did Ideaman post his info already or BG? I was at university the last days, hard to catch up

http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?p=37216842&highlight=#post37216842

 

[lednerg]

Tech stuff.
...

Maybe it's just something that pertains to your source alone. Like if it's a audio tool, maybe something changed with the DSP. (is it too obvious I don't know what I'm talking about)

 

[wsippel]

Maybe it's just something that pertains to your source alone. Like if it's a audio tool, maybe something changed with the DSP. (is it too obvious I don't know what I'm talking about)

I heavily doubt that's the reason.

 

[Gahiggidy]

Would this be an official change/announcement to the development process or a quirk that was discovered with an update?

 

[ScreenSplitter]

I look forward to Ubisoft's big reveal of ports and shovelware.

Assasin's Creed Quintrilogy.

 

[sinxtanx]

Tech stuff.

A compiler is an application that translates source code to something the CPU itself actually understands. So you have several source files that are compiled to a number of object files, which are then "linked" to make a single binary. Usually, you can compile one source file with, say, GCC 3.1 and one with GCC 4.3, and still link both. You can even compile one file with ICC (Intel C Compiler) and one with GCC (GNU Compiler Collection) for example and still (usually) link them. On Wii U, Nintendo recently broke linker compatibility for some reason. Everything has to be compiled with GHS 5.3.10 or later or it won't link. And that's quite unusual. The two obvious reasons would be that a) Nintendo previously used some other compiler and linker and 5.3.10 is the first version of GHS for Wii U, or b) a recent devkit uses a different CPU that simply isn't compatible with older object files. Because a switch from GHS 5.3.9 to 5.3.10 shouldn't break compatibility unless something far more significant was changed at the same time.

It probably has heavily to do with this: http://www.ghs.com/news/20120327_ESC_Nintendo_WiiU.html
since GHS is Green Hills own compiler, and Nintendo wants people to use the tools they licensed.

 

[lednerg]

I heavily doubt that's the reason.

Well, maybe Nintendo is tricking Wii U devs into programming for the iPad 4 all the sudden.

 

[wsippel]

It probably has heavily to do with this: http://www.ghs.com/news/20120327_ESC_Nintendo_WiiU.html
since GHS is Green Hills own compiler, and Nintendo wants people to use the tools they licensed.

I know what GHS is and that MULTI is the official Wii U IDE (which is already weird in itself as MULTI is far more expensive than IBM XL). But even then, switching from GHS 5.3.9 to 5.3.10 shouldn't break linker compatibility. Unless Nintendo didn't use GHS until very recently and 5.3.10 is the earliest version available for the platform.

 

[thegodsend]

I know what GHS is and that MULTI is the official Wii U IDE (which is already weird in itself as MULTI is far more expensive than IBM XL). But even then, switching from GHS 5.3.9 to 5.3.10 shouldn't break linker compatibility. Unless Nintendo didn't use GHS until very recently and 5.3.10 is the earliest version available for the platform.

By "expensive", I assume you mean processing power wise?

 

[wsippel]

By "expensive", I assume you mean processing power wise?

No. License fees. MULTI is $5000 per seat. IBM XL is $2000, GCC, pcc and clang/ LLVM are free.

 

[lednerg]

... Unless Nintendo didn't use GHS until very recently and 5.3.10 is the earliest version available for the platform.

That'd be my guess. We only heard the GHS license announcement a couple months ago. Would these minor incremental updates happen very often?

 

[AzaK]

I wonder why Nintendo recently broke library compatibility. As of a few days ago, you can't link binaries unless all objects are compiled with GHS 5.3.10 or later. That's a rather significant change - not something that should happen at a minor version bump (bugfix release). So what exactly made that change necessary? Did Nintendo switch from IBM XL to GHS? Or were there ABI changes (new, slightly incompatible processor)? And why use such an exotic and incredibly expensive compiler in the first place?

Could be a billion different reasons. I need to look into both the power architecture and GHS but could be anything from name mangling changes (unlikely) to something like new 64bit support to as you say, an incompatible processor.

From Star Wars to Star Trek?
This probably explains the CPU complaints. Looks like this won't be easy to develop for after all.
No, it sounds like a compiler change.

Spoiler

The compiler is part of the CPU.

A binary compatibility change isn't necessarily a big thing. I don't know the Wii U Dev environment but I'd hazard a guess that any middleware would ship C compatible binaries or source code. The former probably won't matter and the latter could just require a recompile which is of no real consequence as devs would be rebuiling their entire projects all the time anyway. The only thing I could think of off the top of my head was the 32->64 bit thing where it might be required by GHS for all libs to be 64 bit and in this case, lib shipping middleware might need to provide 64 bit libs.

I'm on my iPad at mo and extremely tired so can't offer much more analysis at the mo.

 

[Krev]

Assasin's Creed Quintrilogy.

Assuming they run as well as the 360 versions, that would actually be awesome, and far above what I'm expecting.

 

[Maxrunner]

Hmm..sounds like a processor change to me.

What news is this???link?

 

[thegodsend]

No. License fees. MULTI is $5000 per seat. IBM XL is $2000, GCC, pcc and clang/ LLVM are free.

Apart from the costs involved, is there any benefit to limit the platform to 5.3.10 up only? It definitely sounds like a strange decision, especially this late in the console development cycle.

 

[Gahiggidy]

Assasin's Creed Quintrilogy.

Pentology?

 

[AzaK]

I know what GHS is and that MULTI is the official Wii U IDE (which is already weird in itself as MULTI is far more expensive than IBM XL). But even then, switching from GHS 5.3.9 to 5.3.10 shouldn't break linker compatibility. Unless Nintendo didn't use GHS until very recently and 5.3.10 is the earliest version available for the platform.

Quite possible/probabl. I men it want long ago they announced MULTI right? Also, maybe they are using Green Hills RTOS' now and those might have some sort of requirement.

 

[HylianTom]

Assuming they run as well as the 360 versions, that would actually be awesome, and far above what I'm expecting.

Yup. I'd snap that up, no question.

 

[Smiles and Cries]

what is going on in this thread?

speak english please :|

 

[Red Arremer]

what is going on in this thread?

speak english please :|

I imagine this talk must look to you like Star Trek technobabble. Warp coils and plasma inducers and stuff.

 

[Smiles and Cries]

I imagine this talk must look to you like Star Trek technobabble. Warp coils and plasma inducers and stuff.

Star Trek I understand

this :|

edit: let me get on my train before reading the last few pages

 

[Red Arremer]

Star Trek I understand

this :|

So you understand fictional engineering but not real engineering?

...

Spoiler

I'm in the same boat, I have no fucking clue what they're talking about.

SO. About those launch titles!

 

[HylianTom]

Star Trek I understand

this :|

I wonder how Nintendo is going to handle the, uhh.., gradient differential vis-a-vis the splorgendorfer chip. Eh? eh?

 

[DaSorcerer7]

I wonder how Nintendo is going to handle the, uhh.., gradient differential vis-a-vis the splorgendorfer chip. Eh? eh?

lol

 

[DrWong]

So if 32x > 64x = Wii 64?

 

[BD1]

No. License fees. MULTI is $5000 per seat. IBM XL is $2000, GCC, pcc and clang/ LLVM are free.

Who is typically responsible for paying the licensing fees? Publisher? Developer? Platform holder? Combination of the three?

Is this something Nintendo would provide to developers, like the middleware they've licensed?

 

[BurntPork]

what is going on in this thread?

speak english please :|

Basically, Nintendo changed the way that the CPU reads code, which might mean a different CPU than before.

This gives me hope for a quad core.

 

[DaSorcerer7]

Basically, Nintendo changed the way that the CPU reads binary, which might mean a different CPU than before.

This gives me hope for a quad core.

lol, funny how you shot this down earlier.

 

[Smiles and Cries]

I wonder how Nintendo is going to handle the, uhh.., gradient differential vis-a-vis the splorgendorfer chip. Eh? eh?

you been hanging at the holodeck too long my friend smh

 

[HylianTom]

you been hanging at the holodeck too long my friend smh

Indeed!
(still not sure about all of this "beaming" stuff..)

 

[Smiles and Cries]

Basically, Nintendo changed the way that the CPU reads code, which might mean a different CPU than before.

This gives me hope for a quad core.

uh burnt pork posts are like anihawk posts to me never sure when they are serious...

anyway Tri-Core 4-EVA

 

[BurntPork]

lol, funny how you shot this down earlier.

I didn't shoot it down; I just noted that it didn't necessarily mean a new CPU. It was also before those fees were brought up.

 

[BurntPork]

uh burnt pork posts are like anihawk posts to me never sure when they are serious...

anyway Tri-Core 4-EVA

I'm serious. A compiler changes code into binary so the CPU can read it, basically.

Shit, my bad about the double post.

 

[Smiles and Cries]

is it Friday yet?

I want some news...

so the new 4core CPU is the secret?

I'm serious. A compiler changes code into binary so the CPU can read it, basically.

Shit, my bad about the double post.

oooh okay don't mind updated CPU

 

[JosephManderley]

Nintendo should announce Gamecube titles will be available on the VC for the Wii U at launch, priced at $12-$15.

The games should be playable on the pad.

A voucher code for 1 free title packed-in. 5-6 titles available at launch including 1 "big title" like Windwaker or Mario Sunshine.

That would be a real winner I think?

 

[axisofweevils]

Nintendo should announce Gamecube titles will be available on the VC for the Wii U at launch, priced at $12-$15.

The games should be playable on the pad.

A voucher code for 1 free title packed-in. 5-6 titles available at launch including 1 "big title" like Windwaker or Mario Sunshine.

That would be a real winner I think?

I agree. I've always thought they should do a limited Launch offer like this, in order to offset the "Waiting for a price-drop" people.
Perhaps, they should make the GC games only available for early adopters like the GBA games for 3DS ambassadors.

 

[Smiles and Cries]

I saw my 3DS has some strange sports report thingy for MLB

I wonder how many new deals like this the uPad will allow

I don't care about baseball but if they had all sports it would be cool

 

[HylianTom]

Nintendo should announce Gamecube titles will be available on the VC for the Wii U at launch, priced at $12-$15.

The games should be playable on the pad.

A voucher code for 1 free title packed-in. 5-6 titles available at launch including 1 "big title" like Windwaker or Mario Sunshine.

That would be a real winner I think?

If they're playable on the Pad and if the Pad has enough range to where one can wander around the house with their Pad, I'm going to be positively giddy. Euphoric. Happy. I'm huge on playing from the archives, so this would essentially guarantee that I'm going to love this generation.

 

[Vagabundo]

Four Core?? I thought it was tri. Emm that would be a megaton.

 

[Smiles and Cries]

so bgassassin's news is the extra added core and 2GB?

 

[Vagabundo]

so bgassassin's news is the extra added core and 2GB?

2GB nice. I'd better submit this to Kotaku ;p

 

[wsippel]

Quite possible/probabl. I men it want long ago they announced MULTI right? Also, maybe they are using Green Hills RTOS' now and those might have some sort of requirement.

Switching to a different IDE and toolchain that late in the game would certainly cause quite a few headaches. Well, at least MULTI supports Visual Studio integration...

And I agree that Nintendos choice seems to hint at a velOSity based operating system, maybe even Integrity, as MULTI is obviously designed and optimized for those. Some of the more advanced debugging, profiling and auto-optimization features are only available on GHS' RTOS as far as I understand.

Who is typically responsible for paying the licensing fees? Publisher? Developer? Platform holder? Combination of the three?

Is this something Nintendo would provide to developers, like the middleware they've licensed?

From the press release, it seems Nintendo pays the license fees in this case. They probably got quite a deal from GHS, but I'm almost certain IBM XL, which is what Microsoft and Sony use as far as I know, would have been cheaper still.

 

[HylianTom]

2GB nice. I'd better submit this to Kotaku ;p

I do remember IdeaMan stating that he was surprised by the amount of RAM.. so I keep going back-and-forth between 1.5 and 2.0GB. But given Mark Rein's water-meet-fish praise, Nintendo's claims that they've taken input from third parties on the hardware, and Nintendo's stated goal of pursuing the core, 2GB would not be the least bit shocking to me.

It all points in that direction, the more I think about it.

 

[AceBandage]

Which means Nintendo saw some added benifit for using it that didn't just deal with price. Ease of use maybe?

 

[DaSorcerer7]

I do remember IdeaMan stating that he was surprised by the amount of RAM.. so I keep going back-and-forth between 1.5 and 2.0GB. But given Mark Rein's water-meet-fish praise, Nintendo's claims that they've taken input from third parties on the hardware, and Nintendo's stated goal of pursuing the core, 2GB would not be the least bit shocking to me.

It all points in that direction, the more I think about it.

I'm beginning to think we'e in the region between 2 and 3 GB now.

 

[Kacho]

Damn you guys. Getting me all excited with this increased RAM talk.

 

[Smiles and Cries]

I'm beginning to think we'e in the region between 2 and 3 GB now.

I love 2.5 myself :3

 

[AceBandage]

I'm beginning to think we'e in the region between 2 and 3 GB now.

2GB is the absoltue maximum anyone should expect.
And even then, we could see a fourth of that reserved for other functions.

 

[Smiles and Cries]

2GB is the absoltue maximum anyone should expect.
And even then, we could see a fourth of that reserved for other functions.

thats why it will be 2.5... it will be a shock to most, but still behind the next gen twins

 

[Maxrunner]

so bgassassin's news is the extra added core and 2GB?

where did he stated this???this thread flies literally....