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Wii U Speculation Thread of Brains Beware: Wii U Re-Unveiling At E3 2012

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royalan

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Remove blu-ray and they "drop" to taking similar amounts of losses as MS.

And the cost I'm referring to takes into consideration things like some people expecting 4-8GB in a console even though current densities make that a big financial hurdle.
Also, consider the fact that the Wii U won't be the only console having to deal with the added cost of an expensive peripheral (the uPad). The next Xbox is definitely coming bundled with Kinect, for example. Factor that in with Microsoft not wanting to take an extreme initial loss on hardware and launching at a more casual-friendly price, and I could easily see them launching a console close to the Wii U in power. especially since they know that would leave Sony the odd man out if they go for all-out power again.
 

blu

Wants the largest console games publisher to avoid Nintendo's platforms.
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Speaking of tech demos, the terms "global illumination" and "radiosity" seem to be in (almost) constant companionship with the Zelda and Garden tech demos. Now, Shin Johnpv explained what radiosity is, and I think I understand it (though, I'm not sure I'd be able to identify it in either demos), but I still have no idea what global illumination is. So, could someone be so kind as to explain what it is (perhaps pointing it out in the demos using screenshots if that's possible)?

I also hear the term tessellation used a lot. Could someone explain that as well? :p
Global illumination is how things work in nature. Local illumination is a model based on the direct line-of-sight interactions between a surface and its corresponding visible lightsources (i.e. with potentially some occluders for shadows). Unfortunately, in nature you rarely get only that - all nearby (and not so nearby) surfaces also contribute to the illumination of a given point in space by virtue of bouncing and re-emitting incident light (i.e. repeated reflections and refractions). To get the look of nature's 'global illumination' via local illumination you need tons of short-ranged local lights (which is where deferred shading comes into play, usually), but that'd still be a hack - yet more smoke and mirrors. Raytracers, photon mappers, path tracers et al all try do global illumination to different degrees of success. Path tracers are perhaps the best we have in terms of realism of the model (WebGL demo here), but even a good 'old' raytracer circa the '70 is still a better approximation of nature than what we usually have in todays games. But we're slowly getting there via both clever hybrid lighting models and actually more and more potent hw (and HALs) capable of handling global illumination models at interactive rates (example).
 

Antagon

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Speaking of tech demos, the terms "global illumination" and "radiosity" seem to be in (almost) constant companionship with the Zelda and Garden tech demos. Now, Shin Johnpv explained what radiosity is, and I think I understand it (though, I'm not sure I'd be able to identify it in either demos), but I still have no idea what global illumination is. So, could someone be so kind as to explain what it is (perhaps pointing it out in the demos using screenshots if that's possible)?

I also hear the term tessellation used a lot. Could someone explain that as well? :p
Global illumination basically means indirect illumination.
Look at this:



When the sheet of paper is put next to the cup you see that the sight of the cup next to the paper gets lighter. This is because of global illumination: The light falling through the window is bounced back by the paper and also illuminates the cup.

Tesselation:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4G9anRoYGko&feature=related

It's mostly used for adding more detail to objects that are closer by.
 

bgassassin

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Also, consider the fact that the Wii U won't be the only console having to deal with the added cost of an expensive peripheral (the uPad). The next Xbox is definitely coming bundled with Kinect, for example. Factor that in with Microsoft not wanting to take an extreme initial loss on hardware and launching at a more casual-friendly price, and I could easily see them launching a console close to the Wii U in power. especially since they know that would leave Sony the odd man out if they go for all-out power again.
That is true, though I could also see a scenario where Wii U is $349 and Xbox3 is $449.
 

FyreWulff

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Jan 21, 2010
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Yup. Sounds about right for Ubi.
It's the unfortunate truth.

If your game sells well, then you don't need to put in any effort for engine overhauls or making it look real nice on the hardware, since the marketing department has proven you don't need the budget to sell the game. Why use bumpmapping or lighting when your PS2 build saves you money?


If it sells really well, then port that bitch to 360/PS3 to eke out some more sales.


If it sells poorly, well then it's not your fault, it's the console's fault! Ignore the fact that you barely advertised the game, and had the HUD done by an intern in MS paint. It's really frustrating when you see a cheap publisher saying that the Wii can't do X, then you look at Starfox Adventures and NFL2K5 and realize the Wii could do both those games in it's sleep, but publishers won't fund more detailed games. Then you get stupid shit like the cartoony Madden for Wii when it's more powerful than the OXbox was for Madden 2006.
 

onilink88

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Jun 13, 2011
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Global illumination is how things work in nature. Local illumination is a model based on the direct line-of-sight interactions between a surface and its corresponding visible lightsources (i.e. with potentially some occluders for shadows). Unfortunately, in nature you rarely get only that - all nearby (and not so nearby) surfaces also contribute to the illumination of a given point in space by virtue of bouncing and re-emitting incident light (i.e. repeated reflections and refractions). To get the look of nature's 'global illumination' via local illumination you need tons of short-ranged local lights (which is where deferred shading comes into play, usually), but that'd still be a hack - yet more smoke and mirrors. Raytracers, photon mappers, path tracers et al all try do global illumination to different degrees of success. Path tracers are perhaps the best we have in terms of realism of the model (WebGL demo here), but even a good 'old' raytracer circa the '70 is still a better approximation of nature than what we usually have in todays games. But we're slowly getting there via both clever hybrid lighting models and actually more and more potent hw (and HALs) capable of handling global illumination models at interactive rates (example).
Global illumination basically means indirect illumination.
Look at this:



When the sheet of paper is put next to the cup you see that the sight of the cup next to the paper gets lighter. This is because of global illumination: The light falling through the window is bounced back by the paper and also illuminates the cup.

Tesselation:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4G9anRoYGko&feature=related

It's mostly used for adding more detail to objects that are closer by.
Ah, thank ye kindly, good sirs!
 
Aug 10, 2008
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My hope is Microsoft has learnt from its mistakes. And Sony from theirs. Who wants constantly overheating consoles and $599 pricepoints?
I want a console that isn't akin to the Wii which was as budget as budget came. I'd rather pay $450-500 on a console that isn't going to crap out in a couple of years. Especially if it includes everything the PS3 included on release. It's served me amazingly well these last 5 years and I've been able to get much more out of it in terms of entertainment hours for dollars than the Wii at $250.
 

guek

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Apr 27, 2011
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Well you have this in ps3 at launch as a "tech demo" too

http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-dh3LiUEKnek/TdZ7w_bIHxI/AAAAAAAAABo/DDLzP-9v-qs/s1600/final-fantasy-vii-technical-demo-for-ps3-20060119005805734.jpg[IMG]

You can see the video too, impressive, real time (if we believe S-E) etc, etc Blow up all the things watched in ps360 too.

See my point?

Tech demos (in my opinion) are pointless (most of the time). Only beauty images or videos (and the bird demo is not perfect at all, with jaggies and framerate drops).

Well I repeat that is only my opinion of course.[/QUOTE]

The biggest reason I'm optimistic that the tech demo is indicative of real-time performance is [I]because[/I] it had graphical hitches. Sounds crazy right? But hear me out. Something never sat right with me about that tech demo. I still can't wrap my head around how they didn't have enough put the best possible build of the bird demo in their stage conference. How could they not?! It's crazy! But the on stage demo looked noticeably worse than the floor demo. The only possible explanation for that is that the entire thing was horribly rushed. So rushed that they were making improvement up until the last days before E3 and they didn't have time to update the stage demo.

I guess I feel like if that's what's possible in an un-optimized rush job, something with actual effort put into it should be able to easily match it. There's also the fact that you can manipulate the camera and junk. Have most tech demos allowed you to do that? All in all, I have a hard time believing it'd be possible without compromises on 360.
 
Aug 10, 2008
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If this is real then that's good, if by some miracle (As in Rockstar either wants to troll Microsoft and Sony or Nintendo pulled the moneyhat to end all moneyhats) this is exclusive many gaming forums will implode.

http://sticktwiddlers.com/2012/01/17/rummourang-gta-v-will-be-coming-to-the-wii-u/
Yea, I'm not taking this source as reliable after reading this

This theory was further propelled with today’s announcement from Zelnick that Rockstar title, Max Payne 3, is being pushed by 2 months to a May release date, citing that the reason for this is to ensure the highest quality possible for the title on release.

It’s widely recognised that we are to be expecting the release of the Wii U around May this year so could this delay be tied into a decision to release a version of Max Payne 3 on the console, giving further reasoning to also do this with GTA V?
So its going to be released BEFORE its revealed in its final form at E3 in June? Nice job StickSwiddler.
 

Übermatik

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Apr 16, 2011
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If this is real then that's good, if by some miracle (As in Rockstar either wants to troll Microsoft and Sony or Nintendo pulled the moneyhat to end all moneyhats) this is exclusive many gaming forums will implode.

http://sticktwiddlers.com/2012/01/17/rummourang-gta-v-will-be-coming-to-the-wii-u/
It will definitely come to the Wii U, but I wouldn't trust that source - though their evidence is sound.

The question is whether GTA V is a next gen title or a current gen + Wii U title.
If it's the first, the Nintendo will have it on their system first - a massive bonus.
If it's the latter... Eh.
 

Xun

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Feb 10, 2006
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It will definitely come to the Wii U, but I wouldn't trust that source - though their evidence is sound.

The question is whether GTA V is a next gen title or a current gen + Wii U title.
If it's the first, the Nintendo will have it on their system first - a massive bonus.
If it's the latter... Eh.
Judging from how the game looks it's the latter.
 

snesfreak

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Apr 22, 2007
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My Wii U Hardware Predictions:
It'll have graphics processing.
RAM of some sort and amount
A controller.
It'll play vidya games on large capacity compact discs.
A processing unit to handle processing.
internal storage for storing games internally


What do I win?
 

BY2K

Membero Americo
Sep 12, 2010
37,302
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My Wii U Hardware Predictions:
It'll have graphics processing.
RAM of some sort and amount
A controller.
It'll play vidya games on large capacity compact discs.
A processing unit to handle processing.
internal storage for storing games internally


What do I win?
Nothing. The Wii U will have Flash Memory, but storage (for downloaded games) will go on a Externall HDD or a SD Card.
 

FreeMufasa

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Nov 18, 2010
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What can we expect from SEGA regarding the WiiU at E3? I think an exclusive Sonic game is guranteed but anything else?

A PSO2 port would make the system a day 1 for me.
 

EatChildren

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[Nintex];34342487 said:
I just read that Sakurai has yet to fully form a team for Smash Bros. I guess that rules it out for launch or launch window.
Still working on the trainwreck that is Kid Icarus I see.
 

HylianTom

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wrowa

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[Nintex];34342487 said:
I just read that Sakurai has yet to fully form a team for Smash Bros. I guess that rules it out for launch or launch window.
We know for months that he won't start the development until after Kid Icarus is finished. There was never even the slightest chance that Smash Bros would be released during the launch window.
 
Jun 11, 2010
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[Nintex];34342616 said:
The source was Nintendo Power, I also came across this:

Supposed to have aired on a Japanese TV channel(NTV?)
But I guess just random predictions by whoever made that.
Well, "random predictions" observations aside, it seems like it's some kind of "Digital News Calendar," which implies a "calendar for news/announcements," not necessarily releases.

I would be totally impressed if Nintendo pulled an Apple with Wii U at E3. They're historically pretty tight-lipped, but not THAT tight-lipped.
 

Buddha Beam

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Jan 22, 2010
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I cannot grok why people like this art style and think it would be good in a game. People also post the pictures of Link holding a lantern with an utterly laughable outfit and I just don't understand. I really don't. I like the Wind Waker art style, I like the Skyward Sword art Style, I like the realistic art style, but that looks garbage.

The Link to the Past art style?
That would be gorgeous. It's very clean and capable of showing detail and expression, just like Wind Waker did.


No it's not, it's generic as fuck. The cheap and dirty inking style would also look nasty as fuck in 3D and be absolutely horrendous for playability.

I've kept quiet the 500 million times this shit has been brought up because I believe everyone is entitled to their personal tastes and opinions but this fixation GAF has on it is just getting out of hand.
Agreed on this, though. Everybody pining for that would get REAL tired of looking at it after about an hour. If you're going to go with a really hand drawn style, it needs thicker, bolder strokes... otherwise it's just going to wind up hurting your eyes after a while.

Personally, I would like the aLTTP art style with realistic, painted looking backgrounds (someone once mentioned early Disney movies as an example of this, which is perfect).
If I can't have that, a VERY cleaned up Skyward Sword style would be good. It looks like an awful, blurry mess more often than not on the Wii.
 

EatChildren

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you still with it?
It will be a good game... it just won't be Kid Icarus.
The flight missions will own, the ground levels will suck, the game will be packed full of content nobody asked for, including an online multiplayer nobody plays, because nobody bought the game.

Regardless of how good it is I don't see Kid Icarus as being anything other than flop, relative to the effort Nintendo is putting in.
 

Übermatik

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Apr 16, 2011
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The flight missions will own, the ground levels will suck, the game will be packed full of content nobody asked for, including an online multiplayer nobody plays, because nobody bought the game.

Regardless of how good it is I don't see Kid Icarus as being anything other than flop, relative to the effort Nintendo is putting in.
lmao.


Also, I'm so hyped for what RETRO is doing. It could be so many little things.

Also, I enjoy seeing those smaller, third party titles that no one knows about at E3, and that may not materialise. Dunno why, it's just cool.
Oh, and Miyamoto's new IP!
 
Jun 11, 2010
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The Link to the Past art style?
That would be gorgeous. It's very clean and capable of showing detail and expression, just like Wind Waker did.
I think you misunderstand what ThoseDeafMutes is referring to. Take a look at the fourth picture in those results (with SafeSearch set to moderate), where Link and Zelda are on the ground, looking at the two triforces Zelda appears to be levitating. There's a slew of Zelda art in that style that came from the old Nintendo Power guides for Link to the Past and Link's Awakening. They're nothing too special and a lot of people fawn over them like they're the bee's knees. Log4Girlz posted two others by the same artist about 1 page back.

I think the official ALTtP artwork would definitely be adaptable to an expressive in-game art style. But I don't know how well received another cel-shaded console Zelda would be.
 

StevieP

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Sep 10, 2006
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The flight missions will own, the ground levels will suck, the game will be packed full of content nobody asked for, including an online multiplayer nobody plays, because nobody bought the game.

Regardless of how good it is I don't see Kid Icarus as being anything other than flop, relative to the effort Nintendo is putting in.
Get out of my head.
 

AntMurda

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Sep 30, 2006
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[Nintex];34342487 said:
I just read that Sakurai has yet to fully form a team for Smash Bros. I guess that rules it out for launch or launch window.
The website started hiring staff for Smash Bros. last summer. Furthermore, it is guaranteed that several companies will probably be subcontracted again to help develop the two games. There is no way PS could develop them alone.

I would bet money development has absolutely started on Smash Bros. But it is still ways away.
 
Apr 27, 2011
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There's a slew of Zelda art in that style that came from the old Nintendo Power guides for Link to the Past and Link's Awakening. They're nothing too special and a lot of people fawn over them like they're the bee's knees.
I absolutely don't see this. A lot of those pieces capture LoZ perfectly, imo. Would that exact style be perfect for a video game? Probably not, but they have a nice feel to them, and some of the elements I would like to see in the game, especially with the use of minimalistic color pallets. Not to say there shouldn't be a variety of colors, but it would be a great way to set the tone in different scenes.
 
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