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Wii U Speculation Thread The Third: Casting Dreams in The Castle of Miyamoto

Nilaul

Member
Sep 8, 2011
6,673
0
0
Anything's better than

This is simply proof that Japanese art is above anything else done in America.
 

IdeaMan

My source is my ass!
Feb 21, 2012
2,104
0
0
France
About the resolution of the games from which my second-hand knowledge come. This may precise a tad more the Wii U power, in a specific context, how third-parties handle the system. It’s related to everything I’ve said before.

The games concerned run ALL in 720p on the main screen. For now, from the mouths of my sources, it's not a console that looks to manage software with complex engines with such ease that their resolution might be 1080p, even at 30 fps. The 720p resolution is best suited for these titles to have a smooth framerate, in addition of the subscreen.

Now let’s talk about the context, which is as important as the information itself:

- Both games have an intensive use of the padlet. More concretely, 3D scenes, different angle of what is on the TV (bird eye view for example). The system is therefore capable of displaying a main screen of AT LEAST comparable quality than current gen versions in 720p (with I guess, a certain amount of AA, etc.) AND another 480p content on the tablet.
- The titles are ports that will be available on actual HD platforms, or more “exclusive” ones but build on inhouse engines already deployed in previous softs. They aren’t tailored from A to Z for the Wii U particularities. And everything is still in development, + dependent of the evolution of dev kits that are changing regularly (at least until now). So it can only improve, and the situation may be different for Nintendo and first-party titles.
- The dev kit involved are the V4 ones. The “V5” is a little more powerful, but apparently not to a point to push these games from 720p to 1080p.
- My sources added that the resolution is the one chosen for now, but a hypothetical other power boost that may occurring post V5 need to be important to allow the system to run these games properly in 1080p.
- These titles will change in the visual department as, like I said, some effects will be applied more in the “end” of the development, with perhaps graphical features not handled by current gen, thanks to the more modern Wii U GPU. So the end result on the main screen will be prettier than on PS360, with a higher resolution (many current gen content are not in true 720p) and especially in conjunction with a heavy use of the tablet. We might expect that games leaving it for simple things will be even more impressive on the TV.

From these informations, several speculations can be derived as:
- The possibility that games with simple engines, such as family titles, Mii-based ones, etc, will be in 1080p.
- Maybe other developers, with a simplistic use of the padlet + after all the optimizations and hardware boosts/tweaking until the dev kit finalization (if they are only moderate and not extensive to a point that it will change this situation completely), will release games in 1080p (with less AA than on 720p, less FPS, etc.), but it doesn’t seem possible at the moment, if they want their titles to reach a certain level of sophistication and quality in visuals on the TV + intricate use of the subscreen.
- I guess we can speculate further on the power and the amount of some components with this, such as memory / buffer, the GPU…

All these infos are related to my previous posts (it’s the same context) about the hardware power scale, the impressions of my sources, the tablet usage, the memory, the surprising amount of RAM occupation from the OS/Background (it will surely be better and therefore have a positive impact on the general performances, etc.).

Nothing revolutionary as I warned you, but it can help narrowing a little more the Wii U capacities in this particular context, what you can expect from third parties ports/not exclusive games (because having followed each page of these threads, I saw many gafers who are anticipating these titles to be the 1080p versions of their current gen counterparts, but for now, it’s not the case). This does not necessarily mean that the Wii U is underpowered EITHER: manage a visually ambitious game in a solid 720p & framerate, at the minimum a bit prettier than on Xbox 360 + an additional 480p screen with a complex scene rendered on it, is not a small thing.
 
Apr 20, 2011
3,630
0
0
About the resolution of the games from which my second-hand knowledge come. This may precise a tad more the Wii U power, in a specific context, how third-parties handle the system. It’s related to everything I’ve said before.

The games concerned run ALL in 720p on the main screen. For now, from the mouths of my sources, it's not a console that looks to manage software with complex engines with such ease that their resolution might be 1080p, even at 30 fps. The 720p resolution is best suited for these titles to have a smooth framerate, in addition of the subscreen.

Now let’s talk about the context, which is as important as the information itself:

- Both games have an intensive use of the padlet. More concretely, 3D scenes, different angle of what is on the TV (bird eye view for example). The system is therefore capable of displaying a main screen of AT LEAST comparable quality than current gen versions in 720p (with I guess, a certain amount of AA, etc.) AND another 480p content on the tablet.
- The titles are ports that will be available on actual HD platforms, or more “exclusive” ones but build on inhouse engines already deployed in previous softs. They aren’t tailored from A to Z for the Wii U particularities. And everything is still in development, + dependent of the evolution of dev kits that are changing regularly (at least until now). So it can only improve, and the situation may be different for Nintendo and first-party titles.
- The dev kit involved are the V4 ones. The “V5” is a little more powerful, but apparently not to a point to push these games from 720p to 1080p.
- My sources added that the resolution is the one chosen for now, but a hypothetical other power boost that may occurring post V5 need to be important to allow the system to run properly these games in 1080p.
- The games will change in the visual department as, like I said, some effects will be applied more in the “end” of the development, with perhaps graphical features not handled by current gen, thanks to the more modern Wii U GPU. So the end result on the main screen will be prettier than on PS360, with a higher resolution (many current gen titles are not true 720p) and especially in conjunction with a heavy use of the tablet. We might expect that games leaving it for simple things will be even more impressive on the TV.

From these informations, several speculations can be derived as:
- The possibility that games with simple engines, such as family titles, Mii-based ones, etc, will be in 1080p.
- Maybe other developers, with a simplistic use of the padlet + after all the optimizations and hardware boosts/tweaking until the dev kit finalization (if they are only moderate and not extensive to a point that it will change this situation completely), will release games in 1080p (with less AA than on 720p, less FPS, etc.), but it doesn’t seems possible AT the moment, if they want their titles to reach a certain level of sophistication and quality in visuals on the TV + intricate use of the subscreen.
- I guess we can speculate further on the power and the amount of some components with this, such as memory /buffer, the GPU…

All these infos are related to my previous posts (it’s the same context) about the hardware power scale, the impressions of my sources, the tablet usage, the memory, the surprising amount of RAM occupation from the OS/Background (it will surely be better and therefore have a positive impact on the general performances, etc.).

Nothing revolutionary as I said, but it can help narrowing a little more the Wii U capacities in this particular context, what you can expect from third parties ports/not exclusive games (because having followed each page of these threads, I saw many gafers who are expecting these titles to be the 1080p versions of their current gen counterparts, but for now, it’s not the case). This does not necessarily mean that the Wii U is underpowered EITHER: manage a visually ambitious game in a solid 720p & framerate, at the minimum a bit prettier than on Xbox 360 + an additional 480p screen with a complex scene rendered on it, is not a small thing.

I haven't read all of this yet, READING NOW!
 

nordique

Member
Sep 17, 2011
2,327
490
735
With what IdeaMan has hinted to us, 2GB makes most sense to me. Nintendo like to have balanced systems and I think it will breakdown 1.5GB available for games (512MB per CPU core if you like) and 512MB available for the OS.

512 MB for OS would be overkill imo



The 360, iirc, only uses 32 MB for OS, and its a pretty functional OS
 

AceBandage

Banned
Mar 22, 2007
35,547
0
0
About the resolution of the games from which my second-hand knowledge come. This may precise a tad more the Wii U power, in a specific context, how third-parties handle the system. It’s related to everything I’ve said before.

The games concerned run ALL in 720p on the main screen. For now, from the mouths of my sources, it's not a console that looks to manage software with complex engines with such ease that their resolution might be 1080p, even at 30 fps. The 720p resolution is best suited for these titles to have a smooth framerate, in addition of the subscreen.

Now let’s talk about the context, which is as important as the information itself:

- Both games have an intensive use of the padlet. More concretely, 3D scenes, different angle of what is on the TV (bird eye view for example). The system is therefore capable of displaying a main screen of AT LEAST comparable quality than current gen versions in 720p (with I guess, a certain amount of AA, etc.) AND another 480p content on the tablet.
- The titles are ports that will be available on actual HD platforms, or more “exclusive” ones but build on inhouse engines already deployed in previous softs. They aren’t tailored from A to Z for the Wii U particularities. And everything is still in development, + dependent of the evolution of dev kits that are changing regularly (at least until now). So it can only improve, and the situation may be different for Nintendo and first-party titles.
- The dev kit involved are the V4 ones. The “V5” is a little more powerful, but apparently not to a point to push these games from 720p to 1080p.
- My sources added that the resolution is the one chosen for now, but a hypothetical other power boost that may occurring post V5 need to be important to allow the system to run these games properly in 1080p.
- The games will change in the visual department as, like I said, some effects will be applied more in the “end” of the development, with perhaps graphical features not handled by current gen, thanks to the more modern Wii U GPU. So the end result on the main screen will be prettier than on PS360, with a higher resolution (many current gen titles are not true 720p) and especially in conjunction with a heavy use of the tablet. We might expect that games leaving it for simple things will be even more impressive on the TV.

From these informations, several speculations can be derived as:
- The possibility that games with simple engines, such as family titles, Mii-based ones, etc, will be in 1080p.
- Maybe other developers, with a simplistic use of the padlet + after all the optimizations and hardware boosts/tweaking until the dev kit finalization (if they are only moderate and not extensive to a point that it will change this situation completely), will release games in 1080p (with less AA than on 720p, less FPS, etc.), but it doesn’t seems possible AT the moment, if they want their titles to reach a certain level of sophistication and quality in visuals on the TV + intricate use of the subscreen.
- I guess we can speculate further on the power and the amount of some components with this, such as memory /buffer, the GPU…

All these infos are related to my previous posts (it’s the same context) about the hardware power scale, the impressions of my sources, the tablet usage, the memory, the surprising amount of RAM occupation from the OS/Background (it will surely be better and therefore have a positive impact on the general performances, etc.).

Nothing revolutionary as I said, but it can help narrowing a little more the Wii U capacities in this particular context, what you can expect from third parties ports/not exclusive games (because having followed each page of these threads, I saw many gafers who are expecting these titles to be the 1080p versions of their current gen counterparts, but for now, it’s not the case). This does not necessarily mean that the Wii U is underpowered EITHER: manage a visually ambitious game in a solid 720p & framerate, at the minimum a bit prettier than on Xbox 360 + an additional 480p screen with a complex scene rendered on it, is not a small thing.

So, basically what we all expected.
The Wii U versions would look a bit better and run at a higher resolution even with using the controller screen.
 

cyberheater

PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 Xbone PS4 PS4
Mar 10, 2005
19,441
538
1,815
So, basically what we all expected.
The Wii U versions would look a bit better and run at a higher resolution even with using the controller screen.

Look a bit better, yes. Run at a higher resolution. I doubt it. Not more the 720p for a while at least.
 

Roo

Member
Sep 4, 2011
19,121
1
745

From these informations, several speculations can be derived as:
- The possibility that games with simple engines, such as family titles, Mii-based ones, etc, will be in 1080p.

All I care about tbh..
I said it before and I say it again, Nintendo games will be (mostly) the only games pushing the system at 1080 and 60fps. They don't need a shit-ton of resources so I can see a huge leap at least on Nintendo games
 

EloquentM

aka Mannny
Jul 1, 2011
28,223
0
0
All I care about tbh..
I said it before and I say it again, Nintendo games will be (mostly) the only games pushing the system at 1080 and 60fps. They don't need a shit-ton of resources so I can see a huge leap at least on Nintendo games

I'd do a 1 month ban bet that the next Mario will be 1080 at 60 fps
 

AceBandage

Banned
Mar 22, 2007
35,547
0
0
So after IdeaMan's post...
Is the "lolz Wii U is only a bit more powerful than the current gen" nonsense actually true?

No?
You have to remember that it's, essentially, displaying two very high intensity images at once for the games he's describing (one for the TV, one for the controller).
And doing it with better effects and a higher resolution.
That's a good deal more powerful.
Not a giant leap, but a noticeable one.
 

snowdog1971

Banned
Dec 3, 2011
847
0
0
You'd have to go deep within the first thread to find the most talk on this, and there was some talk in the second thread about it. It's not a total indicator though

Another plausible scenario is 1.5GB of GDDR5 on a 96-bit bus. That's six chips, a simple bus to build and still has the eDRAM to compensate. But something I found back during the first thread is that the higher latency of GDDR5 becomes very noticeable when clocked to a certain point according to a test I saw. Based on that, if Nintendo's target clocks are within that realm, it may be better for them not to use GDDR5.

I'm thinking that we may end up seeing 1.5GB or even 2GB of DDR3 myself. 3 or 4 chips given the current density of DDR3. The eDRAM on both the CPU and GPU will avoid bottlenecking issues and this fits in with Arkam saying that the RAM is 'slow'. I know that Nintendo always use fast RAM usually but the eDRAM should stop DDR3 being a problem...and it'll help keep production costs down.


Bloody hell, I'm still miles behind on this thread lol
 

tkscz

Member
Oct 17, 2011
9,746
2,027
975
About the resolution of the games from which my second-hand knowledge come. This may precise a tad more the Wii U power, in a specific context, how third-parties handle the system. It’s related to everything I’ve said before.

The games concerned run ALL in 720p on the main screen. For now, from the mouths of my sources, it's not a console that looks to manage software with complex engines with such ease that their resolution might be 1080p, even at 30 fps. The 720p resolution is best suited for these titles to have a smooth framerate, in addition of the subscreen.

Now let’s talk about the context, which is as important as the information itself:

- Both games have an intensive use of the padlet. More concretely, 3D scenes, different angle of what is on the TV (bird eye view for example). The system is therefore capable of displaying a main screen of AT LEAST comparable quality than current gen versions in 720p (with I guess, a certain amount of AA, etc.) AND another 480p content on the tablet.
- The titles are ports that will be available on actual HD platforms, or more “exclusive” ones but build on inhouse engines already deployed in previous softs. They aren’t tailored from A to Z for the Wii U particularities. And everything is still in development, + dependent of the evolution of dev kits that are changing regularly (at least until now). So it can only improve, and the situation may be different for Nintendo and first-party titles.
- The dev kit involved are the V4 ones. The “V5” is a little more powerful, but apparently not to a point to push these games from 720p to 1080p.
- My sources added that the resolution is the one chosen for now, but a hypothetical other power boost that may occurring post V5 need to be important to allow the system to run these games properly in 1080p.
- These titles will change in the visual department as, like I said, some effects will be applied more in the “end” of the development, with perhaps graphical features not handled by current gen, thanks to the more modern Wii U GPU. So the end result on the main screen will be prettier than on PS360, with a higher resolution (many current gen content are not in true 720p) and especially in conjunction with a heavy use of the tablet. We might expect that games leaving it for simple things will be even more impressive on the TV.

From these informations, several speculations can be derived as:
- The possibility that games with simple engines, such as family titles, Mii-based ones, etc, will be in 1080p.
- Maybe other developers, with a simplistic use of the padlet + after all the optimizations and hardware boosts/tweaking until the dev kit finalization (if they are only moderate and not extensive to a point that it will change this situation completely), will release games in 1080p (with less AA than on 720p, less FPS, etc.), but it doesn’t seem possible AT the moment, if they want their titles to reach a certain level of sophistication and quality in visuals on the TV + intricate use of the subscreen.
- I guess we can speculate further on the power and the amount of some components with this, such as memory / buffer, the GPU…

All these infos are related to my previous posts (it’s the same context) about the hardware power scale, the impressions of my sources, the tablet usage, the memory, the surprising amount of RAM occupation from the OS/Background (it will surely be better and therefore have a positive impact on the general performances, etc.).

Nothing revolutionary as I said, but it can help narrowing a little more the Wii U capacities in this particular context, what you can expect from third parties ports/not exclusive games (because having followed each page of these threads, I saw many gafers who are expecting these titles to be the 1080p versions of their current gen counterparts, but for now, it’s not the case). This does not necessarily mean that the Wii U is underpowered EITHER: manage a visually ambitious game in a solid 720p & framerate, at the minimum a bit prettier than on Xbox 360 + an additional 480p screen with a complex scene rendered on it, is not a small thing.

From this, I'm getting that the game your source is working on, isn't made specifically for the WiiU. What I mean is, I'm aware that it's a port, you said so already, but that the port isn't optimized for the current dev kit WiiU, and can't run smoothly. Once games are optimized for the final versions, we'll see better results. Until then, it will be just like the 360 upon it's first year and a half. Most games look like previous gen titles, with some newer effects added here and there.
 

BlackJace

Member
Dec 24, 2011
16,520
0
0
Mobius
No?
You have to remember that it's, essentially, displaying two very high intensity images at once for the games he's describing (one for the TV, one for the controller).
And doing it with better effects and a higher resolution.
That's a good deal more powerful.
Not a giant leap, but a noticeable one.

Good good, just making sure. I thought we had all gone into doom and gloom mode.
 

Dascu

Member
Nov 24, 2006
13,568
0
0
Belgium
twitter.com
Sounds a bit disappointing, if you ask me. Oh well, I suppose it won't matter all that much, as long as it can support (downgraded) multiplatform PS4/Durango titles.
 

BlackJace

Member
Dec 24, 2011
16,520
0
0
Mobius
Sounds a bit disappointing, if you ask me. Oh well, I suppose it won't matter all that much, as long as it can support (downgraded) multiplatform PS4/Durango titles.

Goddamn, this has got to be the most annoying thing ever. We still can't be completely sure that ps4 and nextbox are gonna outclass the Wii U.
We literally know nothin about all 3 in a sense.
 

NateDrake

Member
Dec 12, 2010
13,717
76
885
I'm okay with that information. The system is running a port of an upcoming game in native 720p, something PS3/Xbox 360 aren't, and using the tablet screen to a great extent. So, the game will look better on WiiU & uses the tablet screen very extensively, thus uses the Wii U to a high level.
 
Apr 25, 2011
3,791
0
0
It might help us narrow down the power a little more. Certainly, it needs to be a good deal more powerful than PS360 to run the same game at a slightly higher resolution, with another 480p output and potentially a few more graphical effects, on a non-final, non-optimised devkit. But it can't be hugely more powerful if it can't comfortably run that same game at 1080p on the main screen.

Still, I think we can bank on the Wii U being noticibly more powerful than current gen, unlike the Wii which if anything wasn't even as powerful as Xbox.
 

Pociask

Member
Nov 30, 2009
2,532
0
0
If these types of specs hold up for the Wii U, I will be very, very happy. I think the visual quality of PS3 games and 360 games is already amazing, and if it's noticably better than that, plus the only place to play Mario Zelda etc., will be a must buy. GG Nintendo.
 
Apr 25, 2011
3,791
0
0
Goddamn, this has got to be the most annoying thing ever. We still can't be completely sure that ps4 and nextbox are gonna outclass the Wii U.
We literally know nothin about all 3 in a sense.
True, but Sony and MS would be absolutely crazy not to listen to Epic, Crytek etc if they want their devices to support the next gen engines from those companies. Epic have already hinted that Wii U is more at a UE3 than UE4 level, haven't they?
 

Nibel

Member
Oct 18, 2011
27,698
0
0
twitter.com
Great news! Thanks for sharing your knowledge, IdeaMan! :)

The Wii U sub screen is the most importing factor when trying to determine the system's strengths: if you want to run a costly engine on the thing, then you have to tone the functions on the screen done - no 3D stuff and only 2D things like maps and inventories for example would work.

But that the system itself could run true 720p games with costly stuff going on on the sub screen sounds great.

Now, we remember: the 1080p box got checked by Reggie. I'm pretty sure that at least a dozen Nintendo titles will be rendered in 1080p. They always got more out of their own consoles than the others. I expect some crazy wizard magic from those technical Nintendo dudes.
And I think it's safe to assume - like IdeaMan mentioned - that we can expect a bunch of games with simple aesthetics to run at 1080p.

I'm happy with my IdeaMan news tidbit today.
 

guek

Banned
Apr 27, 2011
18,684
1
0
True, but Sony and MS would be absolutely crazy not to listen to Epic, Crytek etc if they want their devices to support the next gen engines from those companies. Epic have already hinted that Wii U is more at a UE3 than UE4 level, haven't they?

not really. iirc, they haven't spoken about UE4 in relation to wii u at all directly.
 

MDX

Member
Aug 11, 2010
2,330
0
660
So in short, Wii U is significantly more powerful than the current HD consoles. Not a huge leap.

But significant is significant.

As in a big difference or leap
or important leap
or large leap
or major leap

thats a significant difference from last gen.
And considering Sony and MS are saying they are not going to show
off their new consoles this year, this will leave the WiiU a big window to show off its
power.
 

cyberheater

PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 Xbone PS4 PS4
Mar 10, 2005
19,441
538
1,815
What are you talking about? Hardly any current gen games run in native 720

There are hundreds of games that run at 720p.

The point I'm making is that I'm not exactly sitting in my chair in praise of Nintendo for delivering a system that is going to most comfortable only running games at 720p. It's not exactly the leap that I and most folk were looking for. Hardly 'Next Gen'.

If Ideaman's comments are dead on the money then it's not going to be a significant generational leap as far as graphics are concerned. I doubt it's going to have the muscle to run the next batch of true next gen engines. It's going to be PS360 x 1.2 with more memory for better textures and maybe some free high quality AA. That's it.
 

effzee

Member
Jun 7, 2004
20,148
0
0
37
Wait when did Epic hint at WiiU being more at UE3 level rather than UE4?

I thought if anything they spoke vaguely about UE4 running on a next gen console but neither confirmed or denied if it was WiiU or if WiiU could run the engine.
 

NateDrake

Member
Dec 12, 2010
13,717
76
885
There are hundreds of games that run at 720p.

The point I'm making is that I'm not exactly sitting in my chair in praise of Nintendo for delivering a system that is going to most comfortable only running games at 720p. It's not exactly the leap that I and most folk were looking for. Hardly 'Next Gen'.

If Ideaman's comments are dead on the money then it's not going to be a significant generational leap as far as graphics are concerned. I doubt it's going to have the muscle to run the next batch of true next gen engines. It's going to be PS360 x 1.2 with more memory for better textures and maybe some free high quality AA. That's it.

I don't think hundreds run at native 720. Some do, but not tons.
 

MDX

Member
Aug 11, 2010
2,330
0
660
Great news! Thanks for sharing your knowledge, IdeaMan! :)

The Wii U sub screen is the most importing factor when trying to determine the system's strengths: if you want to run a costly engine on the thing, then you have to tone the functions on the screen done - no 3D stuff and only 2D things like maps and inventories for example would work.

But that the system itself could run true 720p games with costly stuff going on on the sub screen sounds great.
.

But I want to know what that means for games that want to use multiple tablets?
Like Madden? Maybe this is what Nintendo is currently trying to solve?
 

EloquentM

aka Mannny
Jul 1, 2011
28,223
0
0
Wait when did Epic hint at WiiU being more at UE3 level rather than UE4?

I thought if anything they spoke vaguely about UE4 running on a next gen console but neither confirmed or denied if it was WiiU or if WiiU could run the engine.

not really. iirc, they have spoken about UE4 in relation to wii u at all directly.

.

Aren't most 360 and PS3 games rendered in 720p anyway? That doesn't sound very impressive to me.

no. most games are rendered below that and then upscaled.
 

MDX

Member
Aug 11, 2010
2,330
0
660
There are hundreds of games that run at 720p.

The point I'm making is that I'm not exactly sitting in my chair in praise of Nintendo for delivering a system that is going to most comfortable only running games at 720p. It's not exactly the leap that I and most folk were looking for. Hardly 'Next Gen'.

.

No, I dont read it that way.
I read it as, without worrying about the tablet, this system can handle modern games at 1080p. But it really doesn't matter because many developers are looking to focus on 720p next gen as target.