Wii U Speculation Thread The Third: Casting Dreams in The Castle of Miyamoto

Why on earth should they use WM+ again for such an important title like Zelda when there is a new controller?

Just because Aounuma said so? I liked SS controls, but I want to play it on the new controller with all of ita festures. I have no problem going back to button-based combat.
 
Hardware power does not sell consoles. Games do. In some circumstances hardware features have helped sales (PS2 DVD, PS3 Blu-ray), but games have always been the deciding factor in the success of any console. The notion that Sony and Microsoft's next consoles are automatically going to crush Nintendo "because of power" is ignoring this extremely basic principal.

The other thing it ignores is that these games have to be made by actual people, cost a shitload of money, and it's ultimately up to the money men (publishers) what happens. So expecting lots of Samaritan-level stuff from the next gen is the same as expecting publishers to be fine with exponential increases in budgets and development time. While nobody is arguing that couldn't happen, you gotta ask yourself how often it would happen. The industry has already suffered a bunch of casualties from the jump to HD, so how sustainable would a "6x 360" industry be?

As far as Wii U goes, we've already heard (from bg) that Nintendo has more 3rd parties on board for the console than they've ever had. So right there, it's already not "the Wii all over again." IdeaMan (as well as Vigil games) mentioned how Nintendo was going out of their way to help teach 3rd parties what they know about the hardware, and they've even gone as far as to license industry standard middleware for the SDKs to make things easy as possible. They have also embraced the DLC model and are letting publishers use it in their games. We have every indication that Nintendo is serious about courting 3rd parties and as far as we know, it is likely going to pay off in the form of a ton of games.

The biggest mystery is how well the 3rd parties are using the controller for their games. We're not just talking about motion controls and waggle anymore, the Wii U touchscreen opens up a plethora of possibilities to developers. So are they in fact using it to make the games more fun and engaging? This is going to be a key factor in drawing in PS3/360 owners - even more than just a graphics upgrade would.
 
I'm not reaching far, I'm connecting dots:

  • The Wii U GPU was in the works at AMD Hyderabad from June 2009 to June 2011
  • SoCtronics worked with AMD Hyderabad from 2009 to June 2011
  • SoCtronics worked with AMD on the GPU I described
  • The GPU in question is not available at retail and doesn't match any off-the-shelf AMD GPU


The HD 5000 series also supports eyeinfinity without modification, unlike the 4000 series. If the Wii U GPU has derived from this chip, it also means that it will support DirectX 11/ OpenGL 4.1.

The issue I have with this possibility is why a modified 4850/4830 GPU would have been in the dev kit if Nintendo was aiming for something in the redwood family? Despite being older, bigger, and less efficient, the 4830/rv770 has more raw power than the 5550/5570. The newer dev kits apparently has a boost in power compared to the older kits, so that seems weird.

For all the wsippel interesting investigations concerning the GPU since a few days:

From what i can say, there were changes made on the GPU well after June 2011. Now, are we talking about "small" tweaking like boost of frequency, or more intricate modifications that concerns the chip design, i don't know. Is it possible for Nintendo to add a feature (like an improved tesselator), add more SPU, etc, without having to change the GPU too heavily, the board circuitry, bus, all the other components even slightly (because i guess the result must be balanced) ? And if they weren't satisfied and/or under the pressure of developers to boost the hardware, is it possible for them to choose another version of the GPU rather than trying to modifying it too much, this "late" in development ? In regard to videogames history, they can, but i don't know if it's the case here.
Interesting. Thanks for the info. If both wsippel and IdeaMan's info is true, the final GPU may be heavily modified from the listed specs of a 5550/5570.
 

IdeaMan

My source is my ass!
Hardware power does not sell consoles. Games do. In some circumstances hardware features have helped sales (PS2 DVD, PS3 Blu-ray), but games have always been the deciding factor in the success of any console. The notion that Sony and Microsoft's next consoles are automatically going to crush Nintendo "because of power" is ignoring this extremely basic principal.

The other thing it ignores is that these games have to be made by actual people, cost a shitload of money, and it's ultimately up to the money men (publishers) what happens. So expecting lots of Samaritan-level stuff from the next gen is the same as expecting publishers to be fine with exponential increases in budgets and development time. While nobody is arguing that couldn't happen, you gotta ask yourself how often it would happen. The industry has already suffered a bunch of casualties from the jump to HD, so how sustainable would a "6x 360" industry be?

As far as Wii U goes, we've already heard (from bg) that Nintendo has more 3rd parties on board for the console than they've ever had. So right there, it's already not "the Wii all over again." IdeaMan (as well as Vigil games) mentioned how Nintendo was going out of their way to help teach 3rd parties what they know about the hardware, and they've even gone as far as to license industry standard middleware for the SDKs to make things easy as possible. They have also embraced the DLC model and are letting publishers use it in their games. We have every indication that Nintendo is serious about courting 3rd parties and as far as we know, it is likely going to pay off in the form of a ton of games.

The biggest mystery is how well the 3rd parties are using the controller for their games. We're not just talking about motion controls and waggle anymore, the Wii U touchscreen opens up a plethora of possibilities to developers. So are they in fact using it to make the games more fun and engaging? This is going to be a key factor in drawing in PS3/360 owners - even more than just a graphics upgrade would.
From the (few) examples that i know, i was rather enthusiast actually, i expected some lazy uses of the padlet (read: same content than the current gen HD games, same visuals, for the main screen + a bunch of virtual buttons/2d map & inventory on the subscreen), but in every case that i've heard of, there is asymmetrical gameplay involved, with 3D scene rendered on it. This point may be linked to the first bold sentence of the quote, all the "tutorial system"/teaching/involvement of Big N in the initial stages of development for gameplay purposes (for some foreign studios), that i've talked about in Thread Part 2.

But it was for less than 5 games (more than 1 though), so unfortunately, it'll not be the situation for every third-parties titles, and quite a bunch of them will have, whether by choice (to free the maximum of resources for the main screen) or by easiness, very simple usage of the padlet.
 
1. Playing in bed
2. Gameplay akin to acting as a dungeon master
3. Virtual windows, could be particularly amazing in horror games
4. Hudless gameplay
5. Real time item management
 
1. Nintendo will be watching us
2. I stare back at Nintendo
3. I take a naked picture of myself
4. Send it to Nintendo
5. Nintendo can jack off to me anytime they want.
 
From the (few) examples that i know, i was rather enthusiast actually, i expected some lazy uses of the padlet (read: same content than the current gen HD games, same visuals, for the main screen + a bunch of virtual buttons/2d map & inventory on the subscreen), but in every case that i've heard of, there is asymmetrical gameplay involved, with 3D scene rendered on it. This point may be linked to the first sentence of the quote, in bold.
Now THAT's what I'm talking about. :D
But it was for less than 5 games (more than 1 though), so unfortunately, it'll not be the case for every third-parties titles, and quite a bunch of them will have, whether by choice (to free the maximum of resources for the main screen) or by easiness, very simple usage of the padlet.
Yeah, I'm not expecting all 3rd party devs to be creative with it... just the good ones. ;)
 
They would need to really tweak the hell out of a 5550/5570 for it be a good baseline card to start from. Its a piece of shit even compared to a 4830
It actually have some clear advantages over the default 4830 since it's a more modern chip, but it doesn't have the same power level. Since the older dev kits were apparently 4830 and were weaker than the new dev kits, I agree that it has to be noticeably modified from the default redwood.
 
Everybody name your top 5 Upad ideas, go:
In no particular order:

1. Reticle sniper view in FPS
2. Spycam and/or partner view in co-operative games
3. Something falling/moving from the TV screen into the Upad screen, you need to send it again in the TV screen to continue and/or improve your main gameplay
4. In-game tablet with virtual app coming to life and helping you solve puzzles
5. In-game puzzle asking you to go to the internet, the Upad presents you a web browser connected to the real internet but on a couple of dedicated websites, you find the right button to click (i.e. you solved the puzzle and the game aknowledge it) => maybe some kind of personnalised puzzles based on your real location, time, weather, or other account informations...
 
It actually have some clear advantages over the default 4830 since it's a more modern chip, but it doesn't have the same power level. Since the older dev kits were apparently 4830 and were weaker than the new dev kits, I agree that it has to be noticeably modified from the default redwood.
Oh yeah there are advantages like more modern API support and other pivotal areas but like you say it doesnt have much power under the hood.

PC chip wise a 4830 can push rouhgly double the FPS in Mass Effect 2 that a 5570 can. For those who will say a Console is not a PC and all that I am well aware but it just shows the power gulf between the chips that would have to be overcome for a 5570 to even be a smart starting point
 
1. Play home console titles at not-so-huge distances
2. Original content - not only games like the multiplayer Go game from the video, but maybe interesting apps
3. Fluid switching between uPad stuff like the browser and the game which you play
4. AR stuff
5. Doing something with the 3DS, transfarring shit and stuff
 

IdeaMan

My source is my ass!
amagad
best idea eva for the padlet

"Virtual Makeup for Fashionista sponsored by Gemey Maybelline"
- Teach your tomboy girlfriend/teenage daughter how to apply eyeliner & mascara, thanks to the front padlet camera & facial recognition. Follow the movements described on the screen.
- Enhance the skills of already accustomed women, by real-time advanced correction of their usual gestures.
- Courses on how to travesty/disguise yourself, manly man, in a girl, for Mardi Gras or different situations.

It could be an application, available through NFC feature on magazines or beauty/healthcare products.

Instant hit & grow your share & increase/diversify your audience Wii Fit-like title :p
 
The Pach-man speaketh!
http://www.gametrailers.com/video/wii-u-pach-attack/728059
Says Wii U should do fine at $250; Will struggle at $300
Still think he's bitter.
IF it turns out to have hardware roughly on par with ps360 then sure. 250 would be reasonable, 300 at most for hardware if it's a bit stronger.

I could see someone getting that impression from last year's E3 showing given the mockup chassis size and displayed content.

I don't think that's the case though. Even though legitimate knowledge of what hardware we're getting is nonexistent it feels like they're determined to get 3rd party support at least on par with their competition this time out.

I'm basing this on a number of things like pad layout, early pledged developer support and some recent licensing news we received.

If they want that kind of support to not dry up in a couple of years the hardware will have to be strong enough to be within reasonable striking distance of whatever Sony and MS put out.

To me, that means a decent sized but not necessarily full generation leap over what's currently available.
 
Everybody name your top 5 Upad ideas, go:
1. An in-game camera. Bring back Pokemon Snap, or they should create their own Afrika-style game (ooooh, Endless Ocean 3 would be excellent!).
2. Upad displays eBook, whilst TV screen displays an attempted photorealistic, animated, relaxing scene of choice accompanied by customizable soundscape/music. DIY Cylon Projection!
3. Sequels/expansion of DS games: e.g. Warioware DIY, Clubhouse Games, Etrian Odyssey, LovePlus, Style Boutique (which would be amazing <3)
4. Final Fantasy Crystal Chronicles/Four Swords-esque multiplayer games.
5. Any sort of level creation (F-Zero tracks! Dungeons! Etc.!)
 
Thinking of moving my TV to the middle cabinet in my room so I don't sit like an awkward dumbass while playing Wii U. :3 Also, following up on my post last night, I said 3TB due to the possibility people may end up using Wii U retail-download entirely (horrible idea).
 
I disagree.

Every single time Nintendo has gotten the worst versions of a third party game, it was because of hardware limitations. Third parties don't just say "Oh it's Nintendo. Let's give them the worst version of our games".

N64 got the worst versions of Resident Evil 2 and Megaman legends because it used cartridges over CD's.
Whoa there big guy. The N64 version was the best Resident Evil 2, just so you know. The only thing it had worse was the FMVs, which were heavily compressed, but other than that, the game had much better polygon models, the backgrounds were cleaner, it had surround sound, a 'normal' control option and new files/reports tying the story between the games a bit closer.

I don't remember but was Viewtiful Joe on Gamecube better or worse than the ps2 version?
You could say it was better since it had a playable Dante, but performance-wise, it was the same game.
 
Whoa there big guy. The N64 version was the best Resident Evil 2, just so you know. The only thing it had worse was the FMVs, which were heavily compressed, but other than that, the game had much better polygon models, the backgrounds were cleaner, it had surround sound, a 'normal' control option and new files/reports tying the story between the games a bit closer.
You forgot to mention lack of load times (think you could skip the door opening sequences, or maybe that was the PC version).
 
1: Being able to poke Kirby
2: Being able to pet Kirby
3: Being able to throw Kirby
4: Being able to tickle Kirby
5: Not being subsequently inhaled by Kirby

Screw games, I just want a "Pet Kirby" simulator similar to Nintendogs.
 
1. Mario Paint, with a cloud based gallery, similar to Deviantart.
2. Yeah that's it.
3. Yup, all i need.
4. Unrelated: I recently learned the 3DS actually had pressure sensoring.
5. So WiiU will probably have that, too.

Done