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[DragonSworne]

So is the WiiU CPU way more powerful than Xbox360 and PS3 and developers just don't have proper optimized code for it?

I know PS3 and Xbox360 packed rather weak CPUs and relied on SPU and what not to get around bottlenecks. Could be the reason why some third parties are saying the WiiU CPU seems weak? It's the engines they are using which are tuned for current gen architecture?

 

[RAWi]

So we are hopping from Hype Train to Hype Gaf Zepellin?!

Now nothing can go wrong !

 

[Like the hat?]

Not yet. My Gamestop said to wait for an official announcement from Nintendo about the release date. Once that has been given by Nintendo, we will be able to preorder the system.

Ok, phew. Was afraid I missed out.

 

[D-e-f-]

I have a question for you. On the 360, if you set the output of the system to 1080p, the 360 will display all games in 1080p. Will the Wii U do this too?

The 360 will upscale them to 1080. the games themselves will be whatever their native resolution is. most are still 720p (some like the Call of Duty games even lower than that!) but they get upscaled to that resolution but they are still not rendered at that resolution like a native 1080p game would be.

I see no reason why the Wii U wouldn't do the same. But I'm no techie.

 

[Recall]

So is the WiiU CPU way more powerful than Xbox360 and PS3 and developers just don't have proper optimized code for it?

I know PS3 and Xbox360 packed rather weak CPUs and relied on SPU and what not to get around bottlenecks. Could be the reason why some third parties are saying the WiiU CPU seems weak? It's the engines they are using which are tuned for current gen architecture?

The difference in power is unknown until its out. No console is fully optimised by the developers on day 1, it takes time for the shortcuts, tweaks and ram saving ways to be shared.

 

[Currygan]

I can barely wait anymore...it's becoming physically painful

 

[10k]

So is the WiiU CPU way more powerful than Xbox360 and PS3 and developers just don't have proper optimized code for it?

I know PS3 and Xbox360 packed rather weak CPUs and relied on SPU and what not to get around bottlenecks. Could be the reason why some third parties are saying the WiiU CPU seems weak? It's the engines they are using which are tuned for current gen architecture?

It's a combination of the Wii U bein new hardware and not optimized yet, and the fact that the Wii U CPU is an out of order CPU instead of an in order one like the Xenos and Cell. The Wii U instead relies on its GPGPU to handle most computing for games. Basically, this means the Wii U CPU is about on par with the PS360 and it's only good enough to run current gen engines, but next gen games will look great and play great on the Wii U because the PS4/720 are rumored to be switching to OoO CPU's as well and using GPGPU's.

Out of order CPUs execute randomly and can handle unpredictable things like AI and how splayed reacts where in order CPU's tend to b better at more predictable streamlined things like physics.

 

[GameplayWhore]

I only expressed my opinion that a) i´m not really fond of Nintendos "Wii-Strategy" which they continue with the WiiU and b) i don´t expect them to be successful with it a second time.

I´m probably not the only one who feels this way and i also don´t see where the problem lies with this. If you don´t like my opinion, fine, but you should rather try to argue than accusing me of being person xy then.

I think we're all expecting that Nintendo will be less successful than they were this gen. But other than that the term seems vaguely handled. For me, successful is more along the lines of turning a nontrivial profit, but for others it means having a certain amount of systems sold or a certain amount of mindshare in the waning years of a generation. I think that Nintendo will make this mark.

But I'm actually curious about the metric as applied to systems sold. If I had to make up a number, I'd say off the cuff that I'd consider, for this coming generation, sales of at least forty million units for an already established, major player and fifteen million for a new entrant (such as the Ouya) to be a success. New entrants are obviously harder to peg, though, but I mean somebody trying to make serious inroads into the console market, such as Microsoft's efforts with the Xbox last generation.

So when you guys say "Wii U will be successful" or "Wii U will not be successful", what is your cut-off line for success in terms of system sold? Mind, I'm not asking what you think it'll sell, just the level at which it'd turn from bomba to bob-omb.

 

[MadeInBeats]

Not to be a Debbie Downer, but IBM saying the CPU 'packs the same technology as Watson' isn't really saying much. It could just mean it uses transistors instead of vacuum tubes.

The point is it isn't saying much either way... that's my point anyway. But it is saying something >__>

 

[BlackJace]

I just had an orgasmic idea about how a new Advance Wars would work on the GamePad.

*shivers*

 

[big_erk]

I still have one hypothesis that the CPUs main core is a modified POWER7 core (or takes cues from it) along with two modified 476FPs (or takes cues from it).

So, if that was the case, what kind of performance could be expected from code written specifically to run on that kind of hybrid processor?

 

[Number45]

The 360 will upscale them to 1080. the games themselves will be whatever their native resolution is. most are still 720p (some like the Call of Duty games even lower than that!) but they get upscaled to that resolution but they are still not rendered at that resolution like a native 1080p game would be.

I see no reason why the Wii U wouldn't do the same. But I'm no techie.

The 360 has a hardware scaler built in I believe, so the Wii U would need the same for a good solution. I guess it depends whether or not it's a positive cost/effect consideration.

 

[superchunk]

Quick question in reference to Wii U outputting sound through HDMI.

If I connect the Wii U to my tv shown above, will the TV be able to take the Wii U audio single and output it through the optical output (#6 Digital Audio Out)?

Hey, I think we have the same Sony TV.

I have my PS3 connected this way and the optical out goes to me receiver. All PS3 games/movies sound GREAT through my 5.1 stereo. I'd expect WiiU to be just as glorious.

 

[Hoodbury]

I can barely wait anymore...it's becoming physically painful

So that's what that pain is in my lower back?

 

[D-e-f-]

I just had an orgasmic idea about how a new Advance Wars would work on the GamePad.

*shivers*

umm.. you touch the units on the screen to tell them where to go?

 

[FloppyDelux]

I just had an orgasmic idea about how a new Advance Wars would work on the GamePad.

*shivers*

hmmmm...that would be awsome, if it has offline multilayer, one player can use the tablet in another room and the other can use the TV. if it has online multilayer then....that would make it better.

 

[MadeInBeats]

Hey, I think we have the same Sony TV.

I have my PS3 connected this way and the optical out goes to me receiver. All PS3 games/movies sound GREAT through my 5.1 stereo. I'd expect WiiU to be just as glorious.

If it's a Sony TV, I'm sure I read some of those throughput 5.1 from HDMI to the optical.

 

[10k]

I think we're all expecting that Nintendo will be less successful than they were this gen. But other than that the term seems vaguely handled. For me, successful is more along the lines of turning a nontrivial profit, but for others it means having a certain amount of systems sold or a certain amount of mindshare in the waning years of a generation. I think that Nintendo will make this mark.

But I'm actually curious about the metric as applied to systems sold. If I had to make up a number, I'd say off the cuff that I'd consider, for this coming generation, sales of at least forty million units for an already established, major player and fifteen million for a new entrant (such as the Ouya) to be a success. New entrants are obviously harder to peg, though, but I mean somebody trying to make serious inroads into the console market, such as Microsoft's efforts with the Xbox last generation.

So when you guys say "Wii U will be successful" or "Wii U will not be successful", what is your cut-off line for success in terms of system sold? Mind, I'm not asking what you think it'll sell, just the level at which it'd turn from bomba to bob-omb.

Agreed. Console sales numbers don't mean shit if their sold at a loss. Nintendo GameCube made way more money for Nintendo than the Xbox made for Microsoft. Why? Because every GameCube was sold at a profit while the Xbox never made a profit.

The days of consoles selling 100 million I think are over. The Wii might make it. I think the Wii U and Ps4 and 720 will all range around the 40-60 million mark and will be happy with those numbers, especially Nintendo.

Edit: The home console "pie" consists of approx 200 million consumers since the fifth generation. So the pie is going to be split between the three of them some way. Split 3 ways that's 66.67 million consoles. A 40% market share is about 80 million consoles. Everyone and all companies will judge success differently.

 

[big_erk]

The only CONS of this thread returning to Gaming ? The time it takes to ketchup ><

You should RELISH the time you spend here.

 

[LiveFromKyoto]

I think we're all expecting that Nintendo will be less successful than they were this gen. But other than that the term seems vaguely handled. For me, successful is more along the lines of turning a nontrivial profit, but for others it means having a certain amount of systems sold or a certain amount of mindshare in the waning years of a generation. I think that Nintendo will make this mark.

But I'm actually curious about the metric as applied to systems sold. If I had to make up a number, I'd say off the cuff that I'd consider, for this coming generation, sales of at least forty million units for an already established, major player and fifteen million for a new entrant (such as the Ouya) to be a success. New entrants are obviously harder to peg, though, but I mean somebody trying to make serious inroads into the console market, such as Microsoft's efforts with the Xbox last generation.

So when you guys say "Wii U will be successful" or "Wii U will not be successful", what is your cut-off line for success in terms of system sold? Mind, I'm not asking what you think it'll sell, just the level at which it'd turn from bomba to bob-omb.

They'll be over 100 million Wiis sold WW by Christmas, and the system's lifespan isn't done yet. So the U selling 40 million would be a 60+% drop off, that would be catastrophic. studios would close. Share prices would drop precipitously. Suits would be fired. And the outlook would be dimmed for whatever they followed up with.

 

[Moz La Punk]

So what games have to be released in 2013 to consider the Wii U a success for you personally?

I guess its unrealistic but in my dream scenario, it would get these:
- Wave Race Wii U (ultra realistic water physics, realistic style)
- Mario Kart Wii U (going back to the Double Dash-era)
- Super Mario 3D whatever
- The new Moniloth RPG
- Two to three brand new exclusive IP's from third parties (action, adventure)
- Average third party multiplatform support. GTAV, Tomb Raider, Battlefield 4 and BioShock would be nice, maybe Remember Me from Capcom thrown in.

Semi unrealistic this, I know, but that would be great. Save Metroid, Zelda, F-Zero and Donkey Kong Country Returns 2 for 2014/15.

 

[XtremeXpider]

The 360 has a hardware scaler built in I believe, so the Wii U would need the same for a good solution. I guess it depends whether or not it's a positive cost/effect consideration.

Xbox 360 do not have a hardware scaler.

 

[Hoodbury]

You should RELISH the time you spend here.

Yes, but the true Nintendo fans must herd out the trolls or else they might take over.

 

[BlackJace]

umm.. you touch the units on the screen to tell them where to go?

hmmmm...that would be awsome, if it has offline multilayer, one player can use the tablet in another room and the other can use the TV. if it has online multilayer then....that would make it better.

Yeah you could move and purchase units on the controller, and the battle animation between units would move to the nice and big TV screen.

Or, the entire battle could take place on the GamePad and detailed info could be displayed on the TV.

 

[Number45]

Xbox 360 do not have a hardware scaler.

Hmm, I'm sure this was confirmed (it's been years since I heard about it) and quick Googling seems to suggest it does. Am I missing something?

 

[D-e-f-]

The only CONS of this thread returning to Gaming ? The time it takes to ketchup ><

You should RELISH the time you spend here.

Yes, but the true Nintendo fans must herd out the trolls or else they might take over.

and then you DEVOUR even the silliest post SANDWICHED between the insightful posts!

 

[LiveFromKyoto]

Semi unrealistic this, I know, but that would be great. Save Metroid, Zelda, F-Zero and Donkey Kong Country Returns 2 for 2014/15.

That's a long-ass wait for some of their primo franchises. Especially considering Nintendo seem to be pumping out sequels at a higher rate than ever before.

I'm hoping we see Metroid next year.

 

[Moz La Punk]

That's a long-ass wait for some of their primo franchises. Especially considering Nintendo seem to be pumping out sequels at a higher rate than ever before.

I'm hoping we see Metroid next year.

I dunno, I'm all for getting Mario 3D and Mario Kart in the first full year. Gives them more time to really polish Zelda and Metroid.

 

[big_erk]

umm.. you touch the units on the screen to tell them where to go?

What's with all this talk about things being orgasmic and touching units? Had to make sure I was still on GAF.

 

[Hoodbury]

and then you DEVOUR even the silliest post SANDWICHED between the insightful posts!

Sandwich? I thought we were talking about a hotdog?

 

[Kacho]

So what games have to be released in 2013 to consider the Wii U a success for you personally?

I guess its unrealistic but in my dream scenario, it would get these:
- Wave Race Wii U (ultra realistic water physics, realistic style)
- Mario Kart Wii U (going back to the Double Dash-era)
- Super Mario 3D whatever
- The new Moniloth RPG
- Two to three brand new exclusive IP's from third parties (action, adventure)
- Average third party multiplatform support, Tomb Raider and BioShock would be nice, maybe Remember Me from Capcom thrown in.

Semi unrealistic this, I know, but that would be great. Save Metroid, Zelda, F-Zero and Donkey Kong Country Returns 2 for 2014/15.

There is no doubt we need to see an aggressive Nintendo next year with their competitors machines coming out shortly after. I can't wait to see how dirty they get, especially in the West where the console market is incredibly competitive.

 

[Currygan]

So what games have to be released in 2013 to consider the Wii U a success for you personally?

I guess its unrealistic but in my dream scenario, it would get these:
- Wave Race Wii U (ultra realistic water physics, realistic style)
- Mario Kart Wii U (going back to the Double Dash-era)
- Super Mario 3D whatever
- The new Moniloth RPG
- Two to three brand new exclusive IP's from third parties (action, adventure)
- Average third party multiplatform support, GTAV, Tomb Raider and BioShock would be nice, maybe Remember Me from Capcom thrown in.

Semi unrealistic this, I know, but that would be great. Save Metroid, Zelda, F-Zero and Donkey Kong Country Returns 2 for 2014/15.

I'm actually expecting a DKCR2 before the next Mario-Zelda, around Dec 2013 to be precise. I have that feeling

about your post, I can see some launch titles pushed to 2013, like Pikmin 3, maybe in March. Then strong VC support, some Mario Kart U videos to get hyped, a couple Capcom games, some third party support like FPS, open world and RPG, and a coupla fighting games. Probably Level-5 announcements, too. Shitty list I know

 

[Bjoern the Smexy]

I have a question for you. On the 360, if you set the output of the system to 1080p, the 360 will display all games in 1080p. Will the Wii U do this too?

The 360 doesn't output the game in real 1080p, though. They're just upscaled from 720p.
As far as I know there are no games on 360 that support real 1080p, at least non of the retail games do.

Wii U will probably do the same, as does the PS3 already.

It would be very unwise from Nintendo to not upscale sub-1080p footage to 1080p if the video resolution output is set to 1080p in the video options of the console.

 

[Roo]

So I just read VC games on Wii were upscaled from 240p to 480p through an emulator to match Wii's output so I was wondering... If gamecube games are confirmed to be on the virtual console is it possible for them to upscale the games or maybe render those games at 720p?

I think it is possible but since Wii U can output 420p and Nintendo loves easy money just puting them available for download would be enough and call it a day

 

[XtremeXpider]

Hmm, I'm sure this was confirmed (it's been years since I heard about it) and quick Googling seems to suggest it does. Am I missing something?

GPU itself is the scaling hardware, it use the first Avivo implementation.

 

[IdeaMan]

I just had an orgasmic idea about how a new Advance Wars would work on the GamePad.

*shivers*

I want a RTS on this system, i want the BEST CONSOLE RTS EVA SEEN on this system ><

 

[GameplayWhore]

Agreed. Console sales numbers don't mean shit if their sold at a loss. Nintendo GameCube made way more money for Nintendo than the Xbox made for Microsoft. Why? Because every GameCube was sold at a profit while the Xbox never made a profit.

Well, the Xbox's ~24 million was sold at a massive loss, but it was successful in that Microsoft had massive mindshare in America and with developers in general at the end of that generation. It was, in essence, a Pyrrhic victory that the company could easily absorb. If Sony tried it*, it would be much less certain for their next generation to be as successful compared to how Microsoft was positioned in 2006.

Also, minor nit, but the GameCube lost money both in its launch window and at the time that they reduced the price, if I recall correctly, to $99. The hardware was profitable overall, though, as was the software.



* they just did

 

[Earendil]

The point is it isn't saying much either way... that's my point anyway. But it is saying something >__>

Yeah, I think we're on the same page here, I'm just in a weird mood and can't seem to put coherent thoughts together.

 

[D-e-f-]

Sandwich? I thought we were talking about a hotdog?

but do you run the hottest monologue in star poetic inserts and yes y'alls?

So I just read VC games on Wii were upscaled from 240p to 480p through an emulator to match Wii's output so I was wondering... If gamecube games are confirmed to be on the virtual console is it possible for them to upscale the games or maybe render those games at 720p?

I think it is possible but since Wii U can output 420p and Nintendo loves easy money just puting them available for download would be enough and call it a day

same thing as with Wii games, they will not render them at higher resolutions all of a sudden.

 

[The_Lump]

So, if that was the case, what kind of performance could be expected from code written specifically to run on that kind of hybrid processor?

At least 12x GC. Or 400x Casio Calculators.


seriously though, it would depend on the clock speed I guess, plus the amount of edram and SMT capability. Power7 itself has a minimum of 2.4ghz per core in its standard form, and 4vway SMT. One of those would be pretty nifty I'd imagine.

 

[BD1]

God, the hype rises....

So, I've decided on my launch buying plans:

Wii U
Pro Controller
New Super Mario Bros. U
Zombii U
Batman: AC: AE

I'll pick up ACIII and BLOPs 2 at some point in 2012, also. Pikmin 3 when it eventually launches.

... That being said, I think I think it's a somewhat safe bet that the Wii U version of BLOPs 2 will be unveiled on September 13. Is there any chance Nintendo moneyhat'd any special features, maps, etc?

 

[Dreamwriter]

I want a RTS on this system, i want the BEST CONSOLE RTS EVA SEEN on this system ><

Starcraft 64 was the best console RTS ever, so we need Starcraft II on Wii U

 

[big_erk]

At least 12x GC. Or 400x Casio Calculators.

OK, but what would the multiplier be in relation to a TI99/4A?

I kid, I kid. Thanks.

 

[GameplayWhore]

They'll be over 100 million Wiis sold WW by Christmas, and the system's lifespan isn't done yet. So the U selling 40 million would be a 60+% drop off, that would be catastrophic. studios would close. Share prices would drop precipitously. Suits would be fired. And the outlook would be dimmed for whatever they followed up with.

I'd like to hear more of this in detail. What studios would close? Third parties make games for all systems, so not them on account of the lower market share. Nintendo didn't (did they?) suffer massive studio closures through the successive market share drops from the 3rd gen all the way to the 6th gen.

Share prices? They're currently at the level they were when Nintendo was at the end of their ~33 million unit N64 generation, and they're currently at the level they were at when they were at the end of their ~22 million unit GameCube generation. I don't think they very accurately reflect the past-tense performance of any individual system.

Suits? Would a gaming company that sold fewer units than in their prior generation suffer a massive shakeup, assuming that they remained profitable? I think you're overstating the matter here. It's possible they would, but Nintendo in the past is our only metric for a company that had massive decreases in market share while retaining profits, and they did not have massive executive shakeups, at least not at the highest level. Mind, if profitability were skewered, it'd be a different matter.


edit: I would also submit that Nintendo's outlook is always dimmed in the eyes of the investment market, regardless of how well or poorly they are doing at the time.

 

[Effect]

So what games have to be released in 2013 to consider the Wii U a success for you personally?

.

Really hard to say. At some point Nintendo will support the system with the majority of their IPs. They have to as they've always have. If 3rd party support isn't great those will come sooner rather then later. However for the system to be even more worth the purchase (the Nintendo games could make it worth the purchase alone) I need the following to come out. I don't plan on buying a LOT of games going forward and I'm going to be extremely picky about what I buy.

Call of Duty (equal to the other versions)
New Fallout and/or Elders Scroll
3D Mario
a decent JRPG (doesn't matter who it's from)
Third person action/adventure game (new IP, Tomb Raider, Assassins' Creed, etc)
Racing game
Wrestling/Fighting game

Those notes need to be hit for me to be okay with my investment. They don't all have to come out in 2013 but they need to be on the system at some point and in the case of Call of Duty I expect every version). It doesn't matter to me at this point if the Nintendo comes in first again this coming generation or third. I'm pass the "winning the generation" game. As long as Nintendo does okay that they continue to make games and hardware. That's the limit of my concern. If they attempt to sell me on a game to make me want to play it or put out a game that is interesting to me I'm there. If not then oh well. I'm not buying anything to "support" anyone or anything.

Edit:

I think I'm down to just one game for the Wii U launch. Trying to cut down on the money I spend. So no pro controller either. I have my Wii motion plus controllers and the Wii U gamepad should be enough as it has all the buttons. I just need to decide what that launch game will be. Down to Assassins's Creed 3, Black Ops 2, and ZombiU. I'm iffy on AC3 and ZombiU though as I can easily see these dropping in price after a few months. Modern Warfare 3 is still $50 to $60 and BO1 didn't drop in price until MW3 came out.

 

[Anth0ny]

So what games have to be released in 2013 to consider the Wii U a success for you personally?

3D Mario.

Nintendo has conditioned me into accepting 1 major title per year.

 

[D-e-f-]

Starcraft 64 was the best console RTS ever, so we need Starcraft II on Wii U

I know (hope) this is a joke but Starcraft II the way it is would be one of the few RTS games that will only ever work with a keyboard and mouse. Simply because of the multiplayer.

Or ... hmm... if you completely redesigned the interface around hotkeys which would all be displayed on the touch screen ...

Man, I feel like drawing up concepts for games all the time but then I never pull through and actually do it ...

I'm most hyped for all the RTS possibilities on Wii U. I really want Sim City on there.

 

[marc^o^]

3D Mario.

Nintendo has conditioned me into accepting 1 major title per year.

They stopped producing wii games a while ago though, so that 2013 could see lots of games come to market.

 

[MadeInBeats]

I want a RTS on this system, i want the BEST CONSOLE RTS EVA SEEN on this system ><

I want this X100000000

 

[Anth0ny]

They stopped producing wii games a while ago though, so that 2013 could see lots of games come to market.

I was thinking the same thing with 2012.

Then E3 happened.