Pai Pai Master
Banned
Don't hold your breath for any time soon.
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Wii U US November Sales Estimated at 149K by Pachter
- Thread starter Horse Armour
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Don't hold your breath for any time soon.
The quality of the lineup I gave, other than Sing Party and Game & Wario, is amazing. The games they have put out are top notch.
I'll wait to weigh in on sales until we get actual numbers. But there is no level of sales that could make me think Iwata should retain his position. He has done too much damage.
Directs as a marketing tool are awful. Too long, too dry, too much inside baseball and not enough direct information on the game itself. I personally eat up all the backstory and the development anecdotes and the "so that's how it was, ha ha". I find it really interesting. But it doesn't get the word out about why people should buy the game.
Nintendo needs trailers, magazine/site previews, and actual paid advertising. They cannot sit back and think "well, we make the best games, so the console will sell itself". They need coverage. They need weird stuff like host a SSB tournament with top players before the game comes out and stream it. They need a marketing blitz like the gaming world has never seen.
Here's one small example. Out of the 2014 Wii U releases -- Mario Kart 8, Bayonetta 2, SSB Wii U, DKC Tropical Freeze, X -- how many have appeared on a Game Informer cover? Zero.
Directs as a marketing tool are awful. Too long, too dry, too much inside baseball and not enough direct information on the game itself. I personally eat up all the backstory and the development anecdotes and the "so that's how it was, ha ha". I find it really interesting. But it doesn't get the word out about why people should buy the game.
Nintendo needs trailers, magazine/site previews, and actual paid advertising. They cannot sit back and think "well, we make the best games, so the console will sell itself". They need coverage. They need weird stuff like host a SSB tournament with top players before the game comes out and stream it. They need a marketing blitz like the gaming world has never seen.
Here's one small example. Out of the 2014 Wii U releases -- Mario Kart 8, Bayonetta 2, SSB Wii U, DKC Tropical Freeze, X -- how many have appeared on a Game Informer cover? Zero.
Randolph Freelander
Member
But will PS3 reach sub 50k levels next year, because that's where Wii U will live. I think PS3 also has a price drop or two available.
theprodigy
Member
SNES has ALTTP and Super Mario World (and an F-Zero. lololol)
N64 has Super Mario 64, Mario Kart 64, Star Fox 64, and Goldeneye
Gamecube has Melee, Luigi's Mansion, Metroid Prime, and Sunshine
Wii had Twilight Princess, Super Paper Mario, and Super Mario Galaxy (and personally Radiant Dawn too, but that's hardly a mainstream one)
(edit: bold means the game was in the top 5-selling games for its respective console)
Wii U?
only really care about 3D World, although I would pick up WWHD if I were to get the console
so no, not really
Fox Mulder
Member
well then they're fucked. If it flops this holiday, there's really only two options, price drop or kill it.
kind of insane if this thing keeps selling like shit and it isn't even dropped $100 by next holiday.
Nintendo has trailers, magazine/site previews and paid advertising...
Calamari41
41 > 38
The quality is amazing for someone like you or me, but Nintendo's actions speak for themselves. None of those games were deemed by the big N as worthy of being pushed in any way except for NSMBU and 3D World.
No doubt titles like TW101 and 3D World are good, but I don't see them as something people are going to be talking about, modding, and speedrunning 20 years from now.
ALTTP, SMW, Goldeneye, SM64, Melee- all amazing, genre-changing titles that had huge influences in the entire industry. The Wii U just doesn't have anything like that yet.
What is it exactly that you think you proved here?
theprodigy
Member
that the Wii U's current lineup sucks
and if you give me some bullshit about Wii-like trends, I'm not even going to bother
Calamari41
41 > 38
I think he's trying to show that those other systems had multiple games in their first year that the public could, and did, get excited about. The Wii U was severely lacking in tentpole releases until the end of this year.
The perfect Dark
Banned
But it doesn't suck?
edwardslane
Member
Question.. I just made a club Nintendo account and i'm going to link it to my nintendo ID..
Should i claim all my Coins and register all my games first to get coins before i do it..or does it not matter?
Should i claim all my Coins and register all my games first to get coins before i do it..or does it not matter?
"I proved that these games suck because the other consoles had games that I put in bold. QED."
Good job Jimmy. You get the gold star.
I know what he's trying to do, I don't understand how what he posted has any relation to this though.
He posted the lineups of the other consoles and bolded the top sellers on that console. Surely we've seen some of what will be the Wii U's top selling games already released?
And if he thinks he is somehow making an argument about quality... he posted fucking
cranky kong
theprodigy
Member
ok then
take out Super Paper Mario, add in Mario Party 8, since its sales only
it's undeniable that the Wii U's first year library lacked appeal not only to the mainstream, but even to Nintendo fans
also, on the sales note, at the end of the generation I might as well put out a list of major Wii U games that don't get outsold by Link's Crossbow Training (how the hell was this even a thing), since apparently you want me to rub it in
That's because it's VitaTV, not 3DSTV. A VitaTV that could play 3DS/DS cards and downloads would be huge in an ideal world.
The real problem with 3DSTV would be Nintendo's inability/utter stubbornness to let you bring your eShop content with you. You'd have to buy the same content twice. And the idea of saves syncing to the cloud would probably cause Nintendo HQ to implode.
Calamari41
41 > 38
Are you guys trying to argue that the Wii U's first year lineup had mainstream appeal? Or that you yourselves like the games?
Chezzymann
Member
Also, the 3DS TV would be as blurry as an N64 game thanks to dat 240p resolution.
That the games are top quality regardless of mainstream appeal.
It's not my fault people don't want to step outside of their comfort zones and play Pikmin 3.
theprodigy
Member
3DSTV thing would flop because lol240p on a TV, and people already want the 3DS as is
theprodigy
Member
by pulling a Wii U
How is this undeniable based on your listwarz?
Anyway, now you've moved the goalposts. Now you're just talking about sales. Let me blow your mind here theprodigy, I'm not claiming that the Wii U is outselling the Wii. Let me apply your same logic to another console.
"Obviously Smash Bros. Melee sucks because it was outsold by Wii Play."
Does that seem like a sound argument to you?
(And to your final rhetorical question, being a $20 pack in with the zapper probably had something to do with why it was a "thing").
I honestly don't even know what mainstream appeal is anymore.
If its CoD, GTA, FIFA, and Madden then Nintendo's just fucked.
Sadly none of these also appeal to me, so its frustrating to see how the genres I like are sordidly ignored by the general populace.
theprodigy
Member
list wars provided by the resident fanboy Joe?
anyway goalposts haven't moved, my position remains the exact same
Calamari41
41 > 38
It's not even about that, though. Just keep it to Nintendo games actually in development. Would the Wii U's situation look different if Mario Kart replaced Game and Wario? If an epic Zelda U replaced WWHD? If Smash Bros replaced Wonderful 101?
That's the message I got from the lists of first year releases. What I just listed would put the Wii U's first year in line with those of other Nintendo consoles.
Honestly I'm not sure. Mario Kart over Game and Wario sure. But Twilight Princess wasn't even a Wii game (it was a Gamecube port that released along with the GC version) and Smash didn't come until at least a year later.
Neuromancer
Member
Remember your training, and you will get out of the NPD thread alive!
theprodigy
Member
the idea is having Mario Kart/Smash etc. out in the first year would, at the very least, lead to Gamecube level sales
as opposed to, well, this thing
I think what the argument comes down to (in terms of sales) is that Wii U doesn't have (a) Wii sports.
Other than that, the Wii U is certainly selling worse than the gamecube and N64, but not by orders of magnitude. Moreover, it released at a higher price among stiffer competition in a tougher economy.
Even with these things equal, I agree, Wii U would probably be doing slightly worse. I just don't think that a mario kart here or a Sunshine there would really have made much of a difference for the Wii U's prospects. The public has simply rejected Nintendo's vision that they (barely) marketed to them. It's partly not having that one killer-app, but it's more than software. Wii Sports was brilliant because it was not only immediately accessible to such a large demographic, but because it let people's minds run wild. How many people thought that soon they would be playing some amazing lightsaber combat game, or realistically conducting an orchestra with the wiimote?
The Wii U just doesn't capture people's imagination in the way that motion controls or flying around with mario in 3D did - or, going farther back, hooking up a video game machine to your family room TV and playing games that look as good as the arcades.
It's possible, but this kind of logic completely ignores the situation. We can't just pretend that we're living in 2002 and say "Well gamecube has x and y, while Wii U only has z".
The Wii U released against tablets, smartphones, 2013 PS3 (one of the strongest years in software of any console ever), two impending console releases, much higher expectations of video games services and consoles as media boxes, etc.
I'm not apologizing for nintendo. They are a multi-billion dollar company, they can deal with it, and the responsibility of their failure is theirs - I'm not saying that they are some victim here. I am just saying that "this console had 5 good games but wii u only has 3 I've solved it" is completely and utterly missing the point
Other than that, the Wii U is certainly selling worse than the gamecube and N64, but not by orders of magnitude. Moreover, it released at a higher price among stiffer competition in a tougher economy.
Even with these things equal, I agree, Wii U would probably be doing slightly worse. I just don't think that a mario kart here or a Sunshine there would really have made much of a difference for the Wii U's prospects. The public has simply rejected Nintendo's vision that they (barely) marketed to them. It's partly not having that one killer-app, but it's more than software. Wii Sports was brilliant because it was not only immediately accessible to such a large demographic, but because it let people's minds run wild. How many people thought that soon they would be playing some amazing lightsaber combat game, or realistically conducting an orchestra with the wiimote?
The Wii U just doesn't capture people's imagination in the way that motion controls or flying around with mario in 3D did - or, going farther back, hooking up a video game machine to your family room TV and playing games that look as good as the arcades.
It's possible, but this kind of logic completely ignores the situation. We can't just pretend that we're living in 2002 and say "Well gamecube has x and y, while Wii U only has z".
The Wii U released against tablets, smartphones, 2013 PS3 (one of the strongest years in software of any console ever), two impending console releases, much higher expectations of video games services and consoles as media boxes, etc.
I'm not apologizing for nintendo. They are a multi-billion dollar company, they can deal with it, and the responsibility of their failure is theirs - I'm not saying that they are some victim here. I am just saying that "this console had 5 good games but wii u only has 3 I've solved it" is completely and utterly missing the point
TAS
Member
Didn't Reggie say near the end of the VGX appearance that sales are better 'coming off the back of 3DW' or something to that effect?
theprodigy
Member
The Abominable Snowman
Member
Graphics Horse
Member
Yeah there's not going to be a good way to judge the 3DW effect, unless game/console sales are super high for once.
That's exactly what general appeal is lol
Nightstick11
Banned
First of all, I said prominence, not profitability. To dismiss iTunes and the engines powered by it, such as iPod, and iTouch to some degree, is bordering on alternate-history.
The only thing I got remotely wrong was the two decades. He was gone for 12, almost 13 years.
Apple was utterly irrelevant from the late 70's through the early 2000's, when the iPod exploded (like I said, iTunes). Unless you want to make a case for how a company with far less than 10% marketshare in the industries it competed in for decades is "relevant."
I pointed out that Nintendo is nothing like Blackberry due to longevity.
If anything, Nintendo is analogous to Disney, which I pointed out before, has had many peaks and valleys in its lifetime.
Anyways, to dismiss the past as a perhaps-useful barometer for future success is too simplistic. The past can be, in limited scope, a useful barometer to determine the long-term sustainability of a company or a nation or whatnot. Case in point: We know that Microsoft is an aggressive company that is capable of shifting gears quickly. How do we know this well we know this by the way they've behaved in other markets throughout its history. We know that McDonald's is not gonna be irrelevant in the fast-food industry in the next five years how do we know this well because partly of its past.
theprodigy
Member
your analogy presumes that the Wii U got off to a start at all, it probably fits the Wii much better
it's more like getting to start the race earlier than everyone else, then falling over immediately and not getting up
Pop-O-Matic
Banned
It's nice to want things.
theprodigy
Member
bishopcruz
Member
Interesting post, let's look though not just at the number of games, but at the variety of types of experiences available. The Wii U has games, but the Nintendo published titles fall under a pretty narrow range.
So that's 2 Platformers, 5 Minigame collections, 1 strategy game, 2 action adventures (one of them a remake), and 1 casual music game. Adding Ninja Gaiden and Lego City we would get one Character Action game, and one Open World game.
Not a lot of breadth. Let's compare that to the Wii, which had a supposedly stronger casual focus:
Ok, so in its first year, Wii had 5 more games than the Wii U, but look at the differences in the breadth of content. It had only one more mini game focused game than the WiiU did, at a time when minigames were the hot shit. Following that it had 3 hybrid RPGs of varying types, 2 racing games, a strategy game, a platformer, and a pair of Action Adventure games (throwing Metroid in with Zelda is a little odd, but they do both fall under the action adventure genre).
The Wii just had a wider selection of different types of games in its first year, and stuff that appealed to causals, kids, and hardcore alike
Here we have a similar number of games to the WiiU launch year, but look at the variety. Very little overlap between games.
Again, a wider breadth of types of games, the worst offender is Mario Kart and Diddy Kong being kart racers. But you had the first really successful console FPS, a puzzle game, an arcade racer, a space rail shooter,
Not a whole lot, but each one is a different genre, going after a different demographic. Now a lot of these crossed demographics, as a lot of Nintendo games did. But all of these were VERY different from each other.
So, yes the Wii U didn't have significantly less games than any other Nintendo console in its first year, though the Wii did pretty much stomp on its competition in that regard.
The number of games from Nintendo was never the problem. The Wii U's problem is, and will continue to be that there isn't a wide range of games that go after different demographics. The two biggest releases from Nintendo in the launch year of the Wii U are both Mario platformers, and even 3D World, the supposed 3D mario did everything it could to make itself similar in look and design to NSMBU which came out last year.
There are no racing games, there are no RPGs, no fighting games, no shooters of any type. We do at least get a new Action Adventure game in W101, the Zelda we get is an HD Remix, and we get a family focused music game. The rest is filled out with minigame collections.
Things will be better next year, but by then, it will already be too late. And that isn't even looking at the demographics problems either. All of the Nintendo published games, with the solitary exception of NG3, are cartoony, kid friendly fare. Now there is nothing wrong with that, but when it is ALL you have it limits the people who you market to. If you do not like a cartoony style, there is nothing for you from Nintendo. I'm not even talking stylized, Metroid, Eternal Darkness, Star Fox, every non WW Zelda, Fire Emblem, Wave Race, and tons of others all were stylized but not exactly cartoony. Yet the first game from Nintendo that is not 'kiddie' looking is Bayonetta 2 next year, and X after that, assuming of course they come out when promised.
And before anyone starts, there is nothing wrong with 'kiddie' or cartoony graphics. WW is my favorite of the modern Zelda's and W101 has really slick interesting art. But those games don't stand out from the pack right now. That's a problem. I'm also not saying I want a realistic Mario either, but Nintendo needs other types of games to broaden not only the gameplay of their first parties, but the look of them as well. It's like they are suffering from the complete opposite of Next-gen Brown. Games like Fire Emblem, Skyward Sword, Metroid, and Kid Icarus show that there can be a happy medium.
For a company that has a different points of its life been called the 'kids' system. The Wii U is actually the most deserving of that title. By looks if nothing else.
So that's 2 Platformers, 5 Minigame collections, 1 strategy game, 2 action adventures (one of them a remake), and 1 casual music game. Adding Ninja Gaiden and Lego City we would get one Character Action game, and one Open World game.
Not a lot of breadth. Let's compare that to the Wii, which had a supposedly stronger casual focus:
Ok, so in its first year, Wii had 5 more games than the Wii U, but look at the differences in the breadth of content. It had only one more mini game focused game than the WiiU did, at a time when minigames were the hot shit. Following that it had 3 hybrid RPGs of varying types, 2 racing games, a strategy game, a platformer, and a pair of Action Adventure games (throwing Metroid in with Zelda is a little odd, but they do both fall under the action adventure genre).
The Wii just had a wider selection of different types of games in its first year, and stuff that appealed to causals, kids, and hardcore alike
Here we have a similar number of games to the WiiU launch year, but look at the variety. Very little overlap between games.
Again, a wider breadth of types of games, the worst offender is Mario Kart and Diddy Kong being kart racers. But you had the first really successful console FPS, a puzzle game, an arcade racer, a space rail shooter,
Not a whole lot, but each one is a different genre, going after a different demographic. Now a lot of these crossed demographics, as a lot of Nintendo games did. But all of these were VERY different from each other.
So, yes the Wii U didn't have significantly less games than any other Nintendo console in its first year, though the Wii did pretty much stomp on its competition in that regard.
The number of games from Nintendo was never the problem. The Wii U's problem is, and will continue to be that there isn't a wide range of games that go after different demographics. The two biggest releases from Nintendo in the launch year of the Wii U are both Mario platformers, and even 3D World, the supposed 3D mario did everything it could to make itself similar in look and design to NSMBU which came out last year.
There are no racing games, there are no RPGs, no fighting games, no shooters of any type. We do at least get a new Action Adventure game in W101, the Zelda we get is an HD Remix, and we get a family focused music game. The rest is filled out with minigame collections.
Things will be better next year, but by then, it will already be too late. And that isn't even looking at the demographics problems either. All of the Nintendo published games, with the solitary exception of NG3, are cartoony, kid friendly fare. Now there is nothing wrong with that, but when it is ALL you have it limits the people who you market to. If you do not like a cartoony style, there is nothing for you from Nintendo. I'm not even talking stylized, Metroid, Eternal Darkness, Star Fox, every non WW Zelda, Fire Emblem, Wave Race, and tons of others all were stylized but not exactly cartoony. Yet the first game from Nintendo that is not 'kiddie' looking is Bayonetta 2 next year, and X after that, assuming of course they come out when promised.
And before anyone starts, there is nothing wrong with 'kiddie' or cartoony graphics. WW is my favorite of the modern Zelda's and W101 has really slick interesting art. But those games don't stand out from the pack right now. That's a problem. I'm also not saying I want a realistic Mario either, but Nintendo needs other types of games to broaden not only the gameplay of their first parties, but the look of them as well. It's like they are suffering from the complete opposite of Next-gen Brown. Games like Fire Emblem, Skyward Sword, Metroid, and Kid Icarus show that there can be a happy medium.
For a company that has a different points of its life been called the 'kids' system. The Wii U is actually the most deserving of that title. By looks if nothing else.
-Pyromaniac-
Member
If Nintendo can't produce a drastic price drop, then what's the waiting period before regrouping and launching another console. Do they get Zelda U out? Do they scrap it and save it for the new system? Do they play out the next 3-4 years with the wiiU and pray to god something comes of it, or will those years be just filled with losses and time wasted.
It's a really tough spot to be in.
It's a really tough spot to be in.
Kabuki Quantum Lover
Member
If Nintendo can profit off the Wii U for those 3-4 years, they'll keep supporting it. I don't think they are profiting at all, especially if they have to drop the price to liquidate stock. My feeling is that if the Wii U bombs during this Christmas season, the Wii U won't see the latter half of 2015.
ElectricBlanketFire
Member
MarioPaint U bundle that allows you to post pictures and music to social media.
Includes flyswatter minigame remastered HD edition.
Includes flyswatter minigame remastered HD edition.
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