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Will 1st party console titles be better than 3rd party PC games next-gen?

Ogbert

Member
But even that fps difference will disappear next gen. Every game will soon be 60 fps even on consoles, simply because they'll have enough power to do so on PS5 / XSX... And you can't really use this power to impress more graphically due to diminishing returns.

It won’t.

Big budget first party will stick to 30 FPS and try and include ray tracing and other graphical tricks.

What will be cool for console owners is if they get a chance to opt for a performance mode on third party titles that hits 60fps.
 

Krisprolls

Banned
It won’t.

Big budget first party will stick to 30 FPS and try and include ray tracing and other graphical tricks.

What will be cool for console owners is if they get a chance to opt for a performance mode on third party titles that hits 60fps.

But they already have performance mode NOW. Every recent major release on PS4 Pro had a 60 fps (or close to 60 fps) performance mode. Why would this trend change now they have tons more power ? It doesn't make sense.
 
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GymWolf

Member
Multiple PS4 Pro games already have 60 fps performance mode, I see no reason it doesn't happen on PS5.
what games? doom who is super optimized and kinda small in scope? or rage 2 who has kinda of a shitty graphics?
and most of these "60fps mode" are not even rock solid and i hate framerate flactuation like 60-55-50-57-59-48-51 etc.
no open world demanding game or even scripted heavy games like tlou2 or the order has 60fps mode. (i feel naughty putting tlou2 and the shitter in the same phrase 😆 )
 
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Ogbert

Member
No they won't, you already saw tons of games with 60 fps performance mode on PS4 Pro, there's no reason this trend disappears on PS5. It's already happening now.

Which ones?

Witcher 3 is still sluggish. Bloodborne too. Not a dig, name the games and I’ll check them out.

The only console games that tend to hit 60fps are when’s where the developers have prioritised it for gameplay, like Doom.
 
So you think they'll stop with 60 fps performance modes now that they've got a lot more power ? Seems strange but ok, we'll see.
Doesn't seem strange at all, considering they'll be pushing four times as many pixels while spending processing power on stuff like ray tracing. As has been pointed out, even top of the line PCs that are significantly faster than next gen consoles are struggling to hit 60 at times under these conditions, and that's on current gen games like RDR2. Hell, RDR2 doesn't even have ray tracing and a 2080Ti will still only average around 40 fps at 4K.
 
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GymWolf

Member
Which ones?

Witcher 3 is still sluggish. Bloodborne too. Not a dig, name the games and I’ll check them out.

The only console games that tend to hit 60fps are when’s where the developers have prioritised it for gameplay, like Doom.
both doom titles, infamous second son, killzone sf multyplayer, maybe one of the tomba raider remakes, rage 2 and a couple of others.
infamous being the most impressive of the bunch because it's an open world but still a launch titles and still not 60fps rock solid.
doom eternal pretty impressive too, but that game is probably the most optimized game of this gen with gears5.
 
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Krisprolls

Banned
what games? doom who is super optimized and kinda small in scope? or rage 2 who has kinda of a shitty graphics?
and most of these "60fps mode" are not even rock solid and i hate framerate flactuation like 60-55-50-57-59-48-51 etc.
no open world demanding game or even scripted heavy games like tlou2 or the order has 60fps mode.

Every game has a performance mode now. God of War, FF XV, The Last Guardian...

It will be every game next gen, I'm pretty sure of that.
 

Ogbert

Member
both doom titles, infamous second son, killzone sf multyplayer, maybe one of the tomba raider remakes, rage 2 and a couple of others.
infamous being the most impressive of the bunch because it's an open world but still a launch titles and still not 60fps rock solid.
doom eternal pretty impressive too, but that game is probably the most optimized game of this gen with gears5.

Might give Infamous another go then.

Recently tried DS3 on my Pro, but it’s got that awful variable framerate. I’d prefer a solid 30 FPS.
 

ZywyPL

Banned
Better in what department? User experience-wise, well, for some people desk with M+K will be better, for others it's the comfy experience, but it's purely a matter of taste.

Graphically/artistically, I'm pretty sure Sony 1st party studios will stomp on everything out there, the deeper into generation the harder. MS games being released on multiple platforms mean that a beefy enough PC will be able to brute force even better graphics than XBX.

Performance-wise (resolution/framerate), now that depends on what PC are we talking about, the one with i9 + 2080Ti + 16GB RAM + SSD or the one with 2C/4T i3 + RX540 + 8GB RAM + HDD...

That's the thing with PC (+laptops) - there is not just a single one, but billions different ones, if you take out of context the common, most popular setups and look at everything from a 3-5k PC point of view than sure, next-gen consoles will have nothing to talk about, but at least for now both next-gen systems look to be way ahead of an average Joe's PC.
 

GymWolf

Member
Every game has a performance mode now. God of War, FF XV, The Last Guardian...

It will be every game next gen, I'm pretty sure of that.
i hope so, but i played gow in performance mode for like 40 hours and the framerate was all over the place with 60 frame only when you watch the sky or a wall or really low demanding scenes.

also not one of this titles has ROCK SOLID LOCKED 60 fps (except maybe doom eternal), and if there is one thing good on pc is having a super stable framerate if you play with settings.
 
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Krisprolls

Banned
"Hitting 60 fps" doesn't mean anything. It's all about what you keep on screen. And diminishing returns mean it wouldn't make sense not to be 60 fps now or close to 60 fps simply because with such power (PS5 / XSX), they have nothing else impressive they could add on screen instead... Hence the performance modes you now see on every game.
 

GymWolf

Member
Might give Infamous another go then.

Recently tried DS3 on my Pro, but it’s got that awful variable framerate. I’d prefer a solid 30 FPS.
yep, variable as fuck framerate is not something that i like, even on pc i choose 30 fps (very rare case like that broken shit of quantum break) if i can't achieve stable 60 frames.

infmous has a pretty stable framerate but not even remotely locked at 60 fps, especially in demanding scene with a lot of stuff on screen.
 

Ogbert

Member
Every game has a performance mode now. God of War, FF XV, The Last Guardian...

It will be every game next gen, I'm pretty sure of that.

God of War performance mode is nowhere near 60fps. I switched back to resolution because it was variable and off putting.
 

Krisprolls

Banned
i hope so, but i played gow in performance mode for like 40 hours and the framerate was all over the place with 60 frame only when you watch the sky or a wall.

also not of this titles has ROCK SOLID LOCKED 60 fps, and if there is one thing good on pc is having a super stable framerate if you play with settings.

Yeah sure but you see the trend. We went from 30 fps to 45 or 50+ fps on performance modes on consoles. It's pretty clear we'll get to locked 60 fps soon with tons more power on PS5/XSX... Wouldn't make sense otherwise. Once again, there's nothing else you can do to impress with the excess power. Naked eye can hardly see the difference between dynamic 1800p+ and 2160p so why would they do anything else with the power ?
 

Ogbert

Member
"Hitting 60 fps" doesn't mean anything. It's all about what you keep on screen. And diminishing returns mean it wouldn't make sense not to be 60 fps now or close to 60 fps simply because with such power (PS5 / XSX), they have nothing else impressive they could add on screen instead... Hence the performance modes you now see on every game.

Such power?

Dude, I’m looking forward to the consoles but my current PC already outpaces them and there will be cards in the next year that will make my PC look like something Mrs Doubtfire would own.

The X and PS5 are mass consumer devices. They’re not going to lead the market in terms of performance. They might be the most efficient, of course. And very likely the best bang for your buck.
 

GymWolf

Member
Yeah sure but you see the trend. We went from 30 fps to 45 or 50+ fps on performance modes on consoles. It's pretty clear we'll get to locked 60 fps soon with tons more power on PS5/XSX... Wouldn't make sense otherwise. Once again, there's nothing else you can do to impress with the excess power. Naked eye can hardly see the difference between dynamic 1800p+ and 2160p so why would they do anything else with the power ?
my dude we are still light years away from cg graphics or REAL photo-realism, there is always a lot of room for improvement in raw graphics.
tlou3 or horizon 2 are gonna be wildly different if programmed around 30 fps or 60 fps.

power is not only resolution, you use power for a shitload of things like polygon count, texture, lights, shadows, rtx, physics, animations, better hairs, better fluid or snow dynamics, more npc on screen etc. etc. etc.

i like your optimism tho.
 
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Ogbert

Member
Funny seeing so many insecure PC "master race" types :pie_roffles:

Not insecure in the least. Love my Playstation and Switch and really like playing on a TV. To be honest, I feel like a bit of a nerd when I go on a PC binge.

But it’s baffling to see people think that the box someone is going to give them for 500 dollars will out perform the box that costs 4000 dollars.
 

makaveli60

Member
Not insecure in the least. Love my Playstation and Switch and really like playing on a TV. To be honest, I feel like a bit of a nerd when I go on a PC binge.

But it’s baffling to see people think that the box someone is going to give them for 500 dollars will out perform the box that costs 4000 dollars.
Sure, it is impossible. The insecurity is coming from the fact that the games on a 4000 dollar PC only look marginally better (resolution, framerate and most of the times hard to notice effects/more details) than on a 500 dollar console. Most of these master race types can't even admit this to themselves, that's why the insecurity.

Edit: of course this would be different if there were some PC exclusive games developed for high-end machines only. But we know that's not happening.
 
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Ogbert

Member
Sure, it is impossible. The insecurity is coming from the fact that the games on a 4000 dollar PC only look marginally better (resolution, framerate and most of the times hard to notice effects/more details) than on a 500 dollar console. Most of these master race types can't even admit this to themselves, that's why the insecurity.

Edit: of course this would be different if there were some PC exclusive games developed for high-end machines only. But we know that's not happening.

People spend lots of money on a PC because it triples / quadruples the frame rate. It’s why the hobby goes hand in hand with monitors.

You might well think that’s a waste. I don’t. It fundamentally changes how a game *feels* to play.

To be sure, X and PS5 could certainly deliver high frame rates. I just don’t think console developers will necessarily target that (first party), as they will opt for as many graphical bells and whistles as possible and target 30fps.
 

makaveli60

Member
People spend lots of money on a PC because it triples / quadruples the frame rate. It’s why the hobby goes hand in hand with monitors.

You might well think that’s a waste. I don’t. It fundamentally changes how a game *feels* to play.

To be sure, X and PS5 could certainly deliver high frame rates. I just don’t think console developers will necessarily target that (first party), as they will opt for as many graphical bells and whistles as possible and target 30fps.
Well, I hope they target 30fps as I hate the soap opera feeling of higher framerates. I understand that high framerates are important to you and the "master race" was not even referring to you, you seem like a level-headed guy.
 

Kenpachii

Member
Well, I hope they target 30fps as I hate the soap opera feeling of higher framerates. I understand that high framerates are important to you and the "master race" was not even referring to you, you seem like a level-headed guy.

While for you its barely any different.

For a lot of high end PC gamers console gaming isn't even playable. It's the absolute last resort to get your gaming done.
 
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makaveli60

Member
While for you its barely any different.

For a lot of high end PC gamers console gaming isn't even playable. It's the absolute last resort to get your gaming done.
Not barely different, I understand and see the difference, I just don't like the soap opera feeling of higher framerates. And I'll be honest, I understand that most people like higher framerates more but I cannot understand the obsession with it.
 

Lux R7

Member
Not barely different, I understand and see the difference, I just don't like the soap opera feeling of higher framerates. And I'll be honest, I understand that most people like higher framerates more but I cannot understand the obsession with it.

well for most people it's not an obsession, it just becomes a standard
 

makaveli60

Member
well for most people it's not an obsession, it just becomes a standard
It just seems strange to me that if someone would have to decide between having the game look close to a CG movie or just looking ok but at 60 or more FPS then the person would choose the latter. Though even when I started playing games I dreamt of playing games that look like their pre-rendered videos, so maybe that is my obsession :) Each to their own, I guess.
 

Lux R7

Member
It just seems strange to me that if someone would have to decide between having the game look close to a CG movie or just looking ok but at 60 or more FPS then the person would choose the latter. Though even when I started playing games I dreamt of playing games that look like their pre-rendered videos, so maybe that is my obsession :) Each to their own, I guess.

well, first of all if you want both things you can only have that on a high end pc.
And second, maybe it's strange to you but this is what pc gaming is really about, it is about the ability to choose how to tune your experience in terms of framerate, iq, graphical settings (and also other things, like controls).
that said, again, if you like photorealistic graphics, you can only have that on a high end pc right now with mods.
 
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makaveli60

Member
well, first of all if you want both things you can only have that on a high end pc.
And second, maybe it's strange to you but this is what pc gaming is really about, it is about the ability to choose how to tune your experience in terms of framerate, iq, graphical settings (and also other things, like controls).
that said, again, if you like photorealistic graphics, you can only have that on a high end pc right now with mods.
It's just not for me. I was a PC gamer at the beginning for a very long time, but I got tired of having to always tinker, driver problems, fatal errors, having to always upgrade, incompatibility, etc. I like that on console I just put in the game and play without having to worry about anything. And it never stops amazing me how much more developers can squeeze out of a constant hardware. I mean, the PS4 and Xbox One came out in 2013 and they run Red Dead Redemption 2 with insane graphics that no one ever could imagine at the beginning of the gen. And TloU2 and GoT are still to be released for PS4, both of which will be among the very best of the industry. And there is nothing on PC that look better than those. There are games with higher resolutions and framerates but that's it. Yeah, I saw modded games that look insane but I feel they always lose the identity of the games that way.
 

JimboJones

Member
You can make a case for art style, its subjective but pure performance? No, eventually PCs will overtake by a large margin.

People where saying the same about Horizon and now look, magically running on PC and will look way better🙄
 
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BlackTron

Member
But they already have performance mode NOW. Every recent major release on PS4 Pro had a 60 fps (or close to 60 fps) performance mode. Why would this trend change now they have tons more power ? It doesn't make sense.

Yes, a performance mode for games designed to run on the weaker PS4. The Pro isn't its own platform, it's a boosted version of an existing one.

Just like the OG PS4, most games will target the best graphics possible at 30FPS. If we ever see a PS5 Pro, expect 60FPS versions of those games. 🤷‍♂️
 

Lux R7

Member
It's just not for me. I was a PC gamer at the beginning for a very long time, but I got tired of having to always tinker, driver problems, fatal errors, having to always upgrade, incompatibility, etc. I like that on console I just put in the game and play without having to worry about anything. And it never stops amazing me how much more developers can squeeze out of a constant hardware. I mean, the PS4 and Xbox One came out in 2013 and they run Red Dead Redemption 2 with insane graphics that no one ever could imagine at the beginning of the gen. And TloU2 and GoT are still to be released for PS4, both of which will be among the very best of the industry. And there is nothing on PC that look better than those. There are games with higher resolutions and framerates but that's it. Yeah, I saw modded games that look insane but I feel they always lose the identity of the games that way.

i mean, ok, if it comes to your personal taste about what "looks better" or what's important to you i'm perfectly fine with that, you should play the way you like to play. More power to you as far as i'm concerned.
I just have a problem with statemets like "nothing on pc looks better than *game*" with the pretense of being objective because "looks better" doesn't mean much if we are talking about personal taste instead of actual image quality, resolution and details.
 

makaveli60

Member
i mean, ok, if it comes to your personal taste about what "looks better" or what's important to you i'm perfectly fine with that, you should play the way you like to play. More power to you as far as i'm concerned.
I just have a problem with statemets like "nothing on pc looks better than *game*" with the pretense of being objective because "looks better" doesn't mean much if we are talking about personal taste instead of actual image quality, resolution and details.
I get what you mean, and you are right in that. What you talk about are measurable quantities and of course consoles can't match that: 4k, better AA etc. But when I look at the whole picture I find these games better looking than any game on PC. Of course when I compare the same game on PC and console PC wins automatically because of the mentioned measurable quantities.
 

VFXVeteran

Banned
So, for many years now we've had a gaming landscape where pc was miles ahead of consoles.

The PC is still miles ahead of the consoles - even next gen ones.

Skip to 2020 where suddenly new consoles will wield technology that actually does not commonly exist that way on modern gaming PCs yet.

Having a SSD with 5G bandwidth isn't going to be something that makes a non-starter for PC development. The PC has CPUs that are much more powerful than the consoles CPUs, but doesn't get leveraged at 100% power, the PS5's bandwidth max of 5.5G/s doesn't have to be used to full capacity.

What will be the consequence of this?

Nothing.

As we already established, we're not only talking loading times when it comes to the new memory solutions;

For the most part, we are.

Will these games not exist on pc for a while?

...

That's really silly thinking. The PC has the most powerful hardware and will continue to. A developer isn't going to be silly enough to take just one bandwidth advantage from the consoles and make that the sole determination for making a game on the PC or not.

People who think PS5 exclusives look better than PC games through mulitplats are basically saying two things:

1) We prefer this PS exclusives looks and art direction better than a 3rd party's games looks + art direction - perhaps because it can only be seen on a PS.

2) Because it looks better to our eyes, we therefore think the 3D tech used must be better.

Two factual things to completely counter those opinions:

1) Those assumptions are based on artistic opinion alone and don't have any scientific facts about the technology being superior to a PC 3rd party game's technology. In fact, 3rd party devs lead the pack for 3D tech.

2) PC will get PS exclusives this generation so it'll be very clear which platform has the better/more powerful hardware when compared.


I see threads like these disappearing as next-gen begins to move into the spotlight.
 
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Kenpachii

Member
So, for many years now we've had a gaming landscape where pc was miles ahead of consoles.
A common complaint has always been how the low-power-consoles held back any serious advancements to technological development in video games.

Skip to 2020 where suddenly new consoles will wield technology that actually does not commonly exist that way on modern gaming PCs yet. But in 2020 the pc market is no longer totally seperated. Games launch on multiple platforms at once and even crossplay is a topic that finally is relevant. Microsoft even stopped having console exclusive first party titles.

What will be the consequence of this? As we already established, we're not only talking loading times when it comes to the new memory solutions; but game designers dream about constructing gameplay and worlds not possible on our slow machines of the past. Will these games not exist on pc for a while? Will publishers just ignore the pc market share? Will developers not actually use the technology provided to them to make sure the target audience is not too limited? Will only platform exclusives actually profit from the advancements?

Give me some opinions here, I'm interested in how you guys see this developing.

U should stop reading those playstation troll topics where they honestly think that box is some futuristic hardware material.

I will showcase you what PC has to offer at current date with new hardware right around the corner which will boost all those numbers another level forwards.

PC Ram vs PS5 SSD:

System ram latency's are 20ns, SSD's sit at 25μs. 1 μs = 1000ns. That's a 1000 times faster latency.
System ram pushes 35,5gb's at 4000 ddr4 solution raw
System ram max capacity right now on consumer boards is 256gb. ( actually 2tb as 8x 128gb memory modules exist for example, but yea good luck with that)

It's leagues ahead of console SSD's. All consoles try to do is emulate some serious shitty version of ram.

PC SSD vs PS5 SSD

Then let's look at SSD's on PC itself, u can get 4x raid 980 pro's which will yield 26gb's raw which are consumer grade SSD's.

Here's 4x 3,5gb's SSD's 960 pro's tested in 2017.
2b92ee9f26264684b0588c73b2384316.png


PC v-ram + GPU performance vs console v-ram + GPU performance: ( keep in mind PC gets new GPU's before the consoles that will push a massive push forwards on performance so this will be outdated at PS5 release big time ).

The max amount is 16gb on PS5, which will also be loaded with extra footprint from OS and everything really as its shared. CPU stuff all gets through it. Which will lower the available size but also bandwidth with it.

Max PC V-ram capacity right now = 48gb currently 2x titan rtx nvlink.

Speed of ram? hbm2 runs at 1024gb's at 4096 bit bus, vs console ~480gb at 256 bit bus.

However its all the ram console has, with PC they have a entire pool of ram which makes PS5 lack incredible amounts of it.

Now lets compare the CPU.

CPU wise?

We got 64 cores and 128 threads ryzens already, with 2tb ram capacity as max or for more consumer grade 64 cores and 128 threads at 256gb memory limit. 4,3ghz boost clock by the way. vs 8 cores 16 threads 3,5ghz

Conclusion:

The reason most people don't opt for such hardware is that there really isn't anything to render stuff with, even 3,5gb ssd i got was only bought for emulations where i load shaders on the SSD and nothing else. for gaming u honestly won't see much or any difference currently on sata 3 ssd's vs nvme drives, not even remotely worth the price. Let alone get faster stuff.

The same goes for CPU's, 8 cores are kinda pointless, 6 cores are sweet spot i would say on PC right now 8 core is nice for future support but if you got AMD hardware u can just slam in a new CPU whenever u need more cores and still spend less then buying a 8 core CPU where most of the cores will just sit idle specially with stuff like 1600 af. So yea let's not even talk about 16 or 32 or 64 cores. Pointless.

Same goes for 2x titan rtx, endless money spending for something u probably won't be using ever.
 
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TheSHEEEP

Gold Member
Are there seriously people trying to argue that a 500$ (obviously subsidized, "true" worth probably twice as high or so) piece of hardware will be able to blow 1500$+ pieces of hardware out of the water?
What is this I don't even.
 
So, for many years now we've had a gaming landscape where pc was miles ahead of consoles.
A common complaint has always been how the low-power-consoles held back any serious advancements to technological development in video games.

Skip to 2020 where suddenly new consoles will wield technology that actually does not commonly exist that way on modern gaming PCs yet. But in 2020 the pc market is no longer totally seperated. Games launch on multiple platforms at once and even crossplay is a topic that finally is relevant. Microsoft even stopped having console exclusive first party titles.

What will be the consequence of this? As we already established, we're not only talking loading times when it comes to the new memory solutions; but game designers dream about constructing gameplay and worlds not possible on our slow machines of the past. Will these games not exist on pc for a while? Will publishers just ignore the pc market share? Will developers not actually use the technology provided to them to make sure the target audience is not too limited? Will only platform exclusives actually profit from the advancements?

Give me some opinions here, I'm interested in how you guys see this developing.
Stupidest retarded question of the year, no pc game since ever has better graphics than the order, god of war, the real question should be will pc games ever match sony exclusives?
 
Resident Evil 3 on PC looks better than every Sony exclusive. Other than that, AMAZING post.
Resident evil 3 on pc has better frame rates and resolution it isnt graphically better than ps exclusives, interms of graphics fidelity no game on pc matches god of war, the order, ghost of tsushima or last of us 2. U can do flipflops and pee upside down but it wont change that fact.
 
Resident evil 3 on pc has better frame rates and resolution it isnt graphically better than ps exclusives, interms of graphics fidelity no game on pc matches god of war, the order, ghost of tsushima or last of us 2. U can do flipflops and pee upside down but it wont change that fact.
It has better graphics, period. I'm sorry if that upsets you.
 
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