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Winter of Anime 2013 |OT -6| How much lower can we go?!

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Jex

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Nov 16, 2009
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I can't believe you managed to stretch that thread out all night.

Was there even any agreement about what the term loli means?
It's well known that the best threads stem from a disagreement about one of the basic terms in the title of the thread itself.
 

duckroll

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BONES does (960x) 540p, which is exactly half of (1920x) 1080p.
Oh okay. I think that for studios working on sub-HD resolutions, their intention is to have enough extra detail so it looks better than a DVD for sure when seen in a HD format, but they don't want to put the strain (or cost?) of actual HD resolutions on the staff doing the finishing, digital painting, and composite.

As for mid-HD resolution studios, it's possible they want to have a clear benefit for those watching the blu-rays in 1080p, but they don't want to put the strain (or cost?) of full HD resolutions on the staff doing the finishing, digital painting, and composite.

Maybe someone should ask a studio head about this when they have the chance.
 

Risette

A Good Citizen
Aug 27, 2007
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SHAFT makes shows at 2048x1536?
Oh okay. I think that for studios working on sub-HD resolutions, their intention is to have enough extra detail so it looks better than a DVD for sure when seen in a HD format, but they don't want to put the strain (or cost?) of actual HD resolutions on the staff doing the finishing, digital painting, and composite.

As for mid-HD resolution studios, it's possible they want to have a clear benefit for those watching the blu-rays in 1080p, but they don't want to put the strain (or cost?) of full HD resolutions on the staff doing the finishing, digital painting, and composite.

Maybe someone should ask a studio head about this when they have the chance.
I think half-HD is a good compromise, because it makes for clean upscales to 1080.
 

OceanBlue

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Feb 2, 2011
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Fate/zero is 1520×855? what.. is the rationale behind this, is that even a multiple of a standard

Seems like ufotable's Gyo is 1520×855 too judging by the press shots I found on somebody's blog: http://koyanagiyuki.blogspot.com/2012/02/ito-junji-gyo-pv.html
Junji's manga terrify me, but...

lol
Probably the same reason for the bizarre resolutions video game developers use for their "HD" games, LOL. I'm not sure why it's so hard for anime producers to render at HD resolutions, though. It shouldn't take nearly as much time to render in 2D as it does CGI.
It requires larger paper!

I imagine it does require more work and time than most companies feel they need to expend though, even if it might not be as much work as CGI. I honestly don't know too much about this, but it's interesting seeing production material and how the sizes of paper used and the details in them change over the years. Edit: I like Duckroll's answer better, lol.
 

Branduil

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Oh okay. I think that for studios working on sub-HD resolutions, their intention is to have enough extra detail so it looks better than a DVD for sure when seen in a HD format, but they don't want to put the strain (or cost?) of actual HD resolutions on the staff doing the finishing, digital painting, and composite.

As for mid-HD resolution studios, it's possible they want to have a clear benefit for those watching the blu-rays in 1080p, but they don't want to put the strain (or cost?) of full HD resolutions on the staff doing the finishing, digital painting, and composite.

Maybe someone should ask a studio head about this when they have the chance.
The thing is, though, that even shows produced for SD resolutions look substantially better in full HD. See: pre-digital shows rereleased on bluray. So I don't quite understand why they can't just use the smaller paper/materials and still render at full HD resolution.
 

Jex

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Huh, looking at the last handful of pages I really don't recognise quite a large number of posters.

I must be getting old.
 

duckroll

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The thing is, though, that even shows produced for SD resolutions look substantially better in full HD. See: pre-digital shows rereleased on bluray. So I don't quite understand why they can't just use the smaller paper/materials and still render at full HD resolution.
Okay, I can explain this one. There's a misunderstanding on your part here. It doesn't have that much to do with paper as it has to do with production. Pre-digital shows are not "produced for SD". They are produced traditionally, with paper cels which are cleaned up and painted by hand, with hand drawn and painted backgrounds, and then captured on film with a camera, frame by frame. This means the final product is on either 13-15mm or 35mm film stock. The "resolution" is far greater than what we're dealing with digitally.

The process of digital production is very different. Only the actual key frame and inbetween cels are drawn on paper. These are then scanned into a computer, cleaned up, and then digitally painted. They are then composited into animation by layering the cels, the effects, and the backgrounds (which are also mostly done digitally these days). This means that aside from the original paper frames which only contain the rough and uncolored animation content (characters moving, foreground stuff, etc), every step of the process is limited by the resolution they are done in. If a cel is scanned in at 720p, and it is finished and colored that way, that's the resolution. You cannot improve it any further unless you scan it again, and redo everything at a higher resolution.
 

OceanBlue

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While we're on the subject of anime production, does anyone know of any interesting videos or articles on anime production? I've only read a few articles that outline the production process and watched this video series on production of Kanon 2006. Everything else I know (which admittedly isn't a lot) has been basically from word of mouth.

I think there was a series of videos on the production of Clannad as well, but I lost the link...
 

Branduil

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Okay, I can explain this one. There's a misunderstanding on your part here. It doesn't have that much to do with paper as it has to do with production. Pre-digital shows are not "produced for SD". They are produced traditionally, with paper cels which are cleaned up and painted by hand, with hand drawn and painted backgrounds, and then captured on film with a camera, frame by frame. This means the final product is on either 13-15mm or 35mm film stock. The "resolution" is far greater than what we're dealing with digitally.

The process of digital production is very different. Only the actual key frame and inbetween cels are drawn on paper. These are then scanned into a computer, cleaned up, and then digitally painted. They are then composited into animation by layering the cels, the effects, and the backgrounds (which are also mostly done digitally these days). This means that aside from the original paper frames which only contain the rough and uncolored animation content (characters moving, foreground stuff, etc), every step of the process is limited by the resolution they are done in. If a cel is scanned in at 720p, and it is finished and colored that way, that's the resolution. You cannot improve it any further unless you scan it again, and redo everything at a higher resolution.
No, I understand that pre-digital was done on film, but in the end it was still going to be broadcast at 480i on a crappy analog signal. It's actually kind of crazy when you realize these shows were so detailed when no one watching could actually appreciate them at the time, LOL.

I dunno, I just find it hard to believe they can't scan in materials at higher than 720p. My cheap crappy scanner can scan stuff at many multiples of that resolution, and you always want to work in higher resolutions than your final output if you can, anyway.

I would guess that in the end it's just anime studios saving time and money whenever they can, even if it's not that much more costly. At least KyoAni seems to be more forward-thinking in this area than most studios.
 

duckroll

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No, I understand that pre-digital was done on film, but in the end it was still going to be broadcast at 480i on a crappy analog signal. It's actually kind of crazy when you realize these shows were so detailed when no one watching could actually appreciate them at the time, LOL.

I dunno, I just find it hard to believe they can't scan in materials at higher than 720p. My cheap crappy scanner can scan stuff at many multiples of that resolution, and you always want to work in higher resolutions than your final output if you can, anyway.
No one says that they can't scan stuff in at higher than 720p. As I've explained, it's likely the rest of the process which determines what resolution they want to start with. A higher resolution means more work for everyone involved down the production line. For the actual animator drawing on paper, it's not much of a difference at all. More work = more costs and more time.

As far as ridiculous production values for pre-digital stuff goes, Vision of Escaflowne was a TV series made in 35mm. Lol.
 

firehawk12

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Sep 10, 2007
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No one says that they can't scan stuff in at higher than 720p. As I've explained, it's likely the rest of the process which determines what resolution they want to start with. A higher resolution means more work for everyone involved down the production line. For the actual animator drawing on paper, it's not much of a difference at all. More work = more costs and more time.

As far as ridiculous production values for pre-digital stuff goes, Vision of Escaflowne was a TV series made in 35mm. Lol.
The solution is to go full 2D CG. We saw that BRS TV special after all! We know the future!
 

Branduil

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No one says that they can't scan stuff in at higher than 720p. As I've explained, it's likely the rest of the process which determines what resolution they want to start with. A higher resolution means more work for everyone involved down the production line. For the actual animator drawing on paper, it's not much of a difference at all. More work = more costs and more time.
It shouldn't really be a huge difference, though. Most digital painting programs are vector-based, so resolution is irrelevant in that case. For digital photography, After FX does take more time with larger resolutions, but that shouldn't be a big deal unless they just have really cheap/old workstations, which they might, LOL. Really the main cost for most of the steps in production should just be time spent rendering.

As far as ridiculous production values for pre-digital stuff goes, Vision of Escaflowne was a TV series made in 35mm. Lol.
It's crazy. I would have hated to work on a pre-digital show as a background artist painstakingly detailing backdrops that the audience would just see as a blurry mess.
 

duckroll

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It shouldn't really be a huge difference, though. Most digital painting programs are vector-based, so resolution is irrelevant in that case. For digital photography, After FX does take more time with larger resolutions, but that shouldn't be a big deal unless they just have really cheap/old workstations, which they might, LOL. Really the main cost for most of the steps in production should just be time spent rendering.
https://twitter.com/Thomasintokyo/status/305283750684676096

AKB0048 compositing director Ueda san is so busy that she lives at studio, sleeping under her desk a few hours per day.
:(
 

OceanBlue

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The process of digital production is very different. Only the actual key frame and inbetween cels are drawn on paper. These are then scanned into a computer, cleaned up, and then digitally painted. They are then composited into animation by layering the cels, the effects, and the backgrounds (which are also mostly done digitally these days). This means that aside from the original paper frames which only contain the rough and uncolored animation content (characters moving, foreground stuff, etc), every step of the process is limited by the resolution they are done in. If a cel is scanned in at 720p, and it is finished and colored that way, that's the resolution. You cannot improve it any further unless you scan it again, and redo everything at a higher resolution.
So for backgrounds, do they draw the lines on paper and color it digitally similar to how character animation works? I always assumed they were pretty similar after seeing lineart for backgrounds like this:

but for all I know, this might just be reference material and backgrounds are basically just done digitally, so I don't know for sure.
 

Branduil

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So for backgrounds, do they draw the lines on paper and color it digitally similar to how character animation works? I always assumed they were pretty similar after seeing lineart for backgrounds like this:

but for all I know, this might just be reference material and backgrounds are basically just done digitally, so I don't know for sure.
I'm sure it's not the same for every production, but generally storyboards are done first, and then the background layouts are made using the storyboards as their basis, and the final backgrounds are based on the layouts. Obviously digital painting is common now, but you also have studios like P.A. Works and Ufotable which make 3D CGI backgrounds. I would guess the layout process might be different when you're making a CGI background, but it probably still starts with sketches.
 

OceanBlue

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I'm sure it's not the same for every production, but generally storyboards are done first, and then the background layouts are made using the storyboards as their basis, and the final backgrounds are based on the layouts. Obviously digital painting is common now, but you also have studios like P.A. Works and Ufotable which make 3D CGI backgrounds.
Ah, I forgot to take the storyboards into consideration. That makes a lot of sense if I think about it. As for 3D CGI backgrounds, I would imagine that it would be a bit more interesting being the person to composite the 2D character designs on the 3D backgrounds. You probably get a little more freedom than compositing a bunch of 2D images together. I guess you're still limited by the layouts, storyboards, and the whims of the director though, lol.
 

Branduil

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Ah, I forgot to take the storyboards into consideration. That makes a lot of sense if I think about it. As for 3D CGI backgrounds, I would imagine that it would be a bit more interesting being the person to composite the 2D character designs on the 3D backgrounds. You probably get a little more freedom than compositing a bunch of 2D images together. I guess you're still limited by the layouts, storyboards, and the whims of the director though, lol.
Well, CG backgrounds will generally take a lot more time to create than a 2D one, but the advantage is you can reuse that background over and over with different camera angles and lighting. So the real freedom would be for the storyboarders and directors, since they could theoretically shoot scenes from more angles and with more complex camerawork.
 

Articalys

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This has to be a bit of Namco cross-promotion, because I can't figure out any other reason why Tekken bossman Katsuhiro Harada is suddenly sporting an Iori avatar on Twitter.



edit: ...I think he just started tweeting in character. I swear one of his newest tweets is something like "The Minase Group won't give in to the Mishima Zaibatsu."
edit2: ahahaha someone just tweeted at him "Iorin! Tell me some FPS tips!" and he responded "Aim for the forehead. And I'm not talking about myself!"
 

cajunator

Banned
Nov 16, 2010
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*bounces up and down
I'MMMMMMMMM FRREEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE

:D

^_______________________________^

People were not ready for the Hosodapocalypse.

Damn at that Jojo drop-off.
I'm ready for it, but it won't make itself available for my viewing :(

Huh, looking at the last handful of pages I really don't recognise quite a large number of posters.

I must be getting old.
This kind of thing wouldn't occur if you just posted all day every day, silly.
 

Ultimadrago

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This has to be a bit of Namco cross-promotion, because I can't figure out any other reason why Tekken bossman Katsuhiro Harada is suddenly sporting an Iori avatar on Twitter.


edit: ...I think he just started tweeting in character. I swear one of his newest tweets is something like "The Minase Group won't give in to the Mishima Zaibatsu."
edit2: ahahaha someone just tweeted at him "Iorin! Tell me some FPS tips!" and he responded "Aim for the forehead. And I'm not talking about myself!"
Splendid! Harada knows the best idol.

It's because Harada is a boss, so naturally he would use a boss icon.

Logic, mate.
Jintor knows.
 

R_thanatos

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This has to be a bit of Namco cross-promotion, because I can't figure out any other reason why Tekken bossman Katsuhiro Harada is suddenly sporting an Iori avatar on Twitter.



edit: ...I think he just started tweeting in character. I swear one of his newest tweets is something like "The Minase Group won't give in to the Mishima Zaibatsu."
edit2: ahahaha someone just tweeted at him "Iorin! Tell me some FPS tips!" and he responded "Aim for the forehead. And I'm not talking about myself!"
Harada liking iori ? I don't have more words for this ....
 
Oct 22, 2008
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Va
tristtrist.tumblr.com

HolyBaikal

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I have the sensation that this is the anime thread I was supposed to find. Or something close to it.
Except, of course, when it ruins your career permanently. Also, anything and everything is considered a career ruining scandal. "Oh my god, she knows someone of the opposite gender, scandal! How dare she show her face in public after doing something so inhuman!".

So, the anime certainly does look interesting, is it worth checking out?
 

cajunator

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A goddess appears!
I have the sensation that this is the anime thread I was supposed to find. Or something close to it.

Except, of course, when it ruins your career permanently. Also, anything and everything is considered a career ruining scandal. "Oh my god, she knows someone of the opposite gender, scandal! How dare she show her face in public after doing something so inhuman!".

So, the anime certainly does look interesting, is it worth checking out?
Yup you found it!
 
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