Winter of Anime 2013 |OT -6| How much lower can we go?!

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Oct 3, 2006
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Code Geass for me is on the same level as School Days. Its a show about horrible people you watch in the hopes that bad things happen to them.
I love both of those shows, and I've always felt a similarity in my enjoyment of R2 and School Days. I just keep grinning bigger and bigger as things get crazier and crazier.
 
Jul 21, 2010
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Wandering Son 7
Great episode! As someone mentioned earlier it really does handle flashbacks well. I never felt like I wasn't following what was going on onscreen. Definitely interested to see where this relationship goes.
 
Dec 2, 2007
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Mouryou no Hako 7

I'm kind of shocked at how quickly the time flies when I'm watching this show. I'm always surprised when it's over.


It helps that they use a lot of techniques to break up the monotony of Kyougokudou's room. They bring symbols the characters are discussing into the environments, and move the characters out to places they're discussing. It's something Hyouka could have used more of at times.
A quick note, for those of you with short memories: the prologue bit here is from the same book as the prologues in episode 1 and episode 4. Some pieces are falling into place there.

One of the interesting things about the book stuff (which confused me at first) is that Sekiguchi always inserts himself as the protagonist of each book segment. It's an odd effect, which makes me more concerned about him than I might be otherwise.


There's this intense reaction shot of Sekiguchi (the screen washes out for a moment) when the cat jumps onto the table, and I have no idea what it signifies.
In this episode, we learn more than we could ever want to know about mouryou, which ultimately leads us somewhere rather vague. But there are also new developments that could lead to more answers. I enjoyed the challenge of trying to get a grip on the continually conflicting descriptions of the mouryou.


This particular shot also stood out, but it seems to carry a clear message about our intrepid reporter.
It seems like we're finally going to escape from Kyougokudou's house next episode. I'm curious how the new information we have will impact the events to come.
 
Jun 7, 2004
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Ghost in the Shell (1995) vs Innocence (2004)

Pizzaroll has been bugging me for ages to give the Oshii GitS movies another shot, so I finally decided to get it over with and watched both movies this week. It was certainly a pretty interesting experience, and I now have a much fresher perspective on both movies. I think I enjoyed the experience quite a bit.

What is most interesting about Oshii's approach to GitS is how minimalist and reserved it is considering the vast entertainment potential the setting and characters offer. The next attempt to animate the franchise would be Stand Alone Complex, which completely embraced that aspect of the world. Here though, Oshii is much more interested in a character study of very few characters in the overall setting, and the focus is almost myopic in nature. There is very little consideration for developing the characters themselves much, or developing the setting, or even introducing viewers into the larger scope of the world and organizational structure. Things are mentioned in just enough detail so the audience can follow the moment to moment events, but beyond that the only thing which seems to matter is delivering the emotional experience the characters feel.

It is in this emotional aspect where the two movies differ greatly, but in a good way. The first film is deliberately passive to the point of feeling artificially disconnected. While there are interesting events (read: action) throughout the film, they are also presented in rather mundane ways. There is very little tension, the direction avoids building up to cool moments or having a natural rhythm which an action movie usually has. Instead the tone is melancholic and reflective of the Major's mid-life crisis. Her job is extremely interesting (to us), and the scifi setting is pretty cool with lots of neat ideas, but yet to her none of it seems to hold much meaning, and what she does is simply a pointless routine which happens to be employment. The tone of the film makes this message very effective, but somewhat unsatisfying... which I guess is the point if the audience is expected to connect with the Major.

In Innocence, the focus shifts to Batou, who actually seems rather content with his routine lifestyle and his place in the world. There isn't some deep amazing meaning in his life, but he seems satisfied enough. As such, the movie has a much stronger sense of pace, and actually flows better than the first film. I wasn't really expecting to feel this way considering how I felt about this movie previously, but as a companion piece of the first movie it works really well. There's something natural about it, even thought visually it looks much more unnatural than the first film. There is more CG, much more obvious digital work, the character designs have also moved closer to the sickly pale color style IG seems to like these days, but yet something about the narrative and characters feels natural and more importantly - comfortable.

What I once found boring about the film has developed into a feeling of realistic monotony. The only thing boring about the film is the fact what when people behave realistically and do routine things in the course of their work, sometimes it just isn't very exciting. I still think there are flaws in the script though, which is more obvious when comparing the two films. While the original GitS is rather light on dialogue, given the nature of how Batou and the Major aren't talkative people, Innocence is a rather wordy movie. Togusa is more interested in communication, and the nature of the case they are investigating also requires more interrogation.

This brings out one of Oshii's weaknesses - he doesn't seem to really care about compelling dialogue. So instead all the small talk is basically padded by silly quotations from various classics or philosophical works. This isn't even as pretentious as I felt when I first watched the movie. Instead, it just comes off as noise now. There are moments in the film where it feels like there should be a number of lines exchanged between certain characters, and instead of actually figuring out how to write compelling lines, Oshii just spits out garbage to simulate that feeling of a conversation. It's an interesting choice, but not one I really care for at all.

In closing, I feel this retrospective was worth it, because it definitely changed my mind about a lot of things in both movies. Watching them together within a span of a day also helps connect a lot of dots between the two. The sequel was definitely designed to compliment the original in many ways, and there are really nice references in the script and in the way the characters act which make it feel like a sequel which isn't particularly obvious about being a sequel, but yet something which fits together very nicely in the end.


Appendix A: The Visual Evolution of GitS

There's a very conscious contrast between the opening sequences in the two movies. The original showed the assembly of a cyborg with pure traditional animation, while the sequel shows a similar assembly in incredibly detailed CG. This is but the first of many of such contrasts in the two films.



There's no denying that most of the visuals and backgrounds in the sequel are much brighter, more colorful, and really pop right out of the screen. There's also more detail, as afforded by solid CG done at really high resolutions. But there's also a subtle beauty in the softer hand drawn background art in the original. The colors are less vibrant, but they also give off a much better sense of a worn city which is actually inhabited. Maybe this too is a difference between how the Major saw the world, and how Batou sees it.



When it comes to the weapons, I think there's no contest. I -hate- the way they look in Innocence. The shiny digital look of the bullets, the CG looking weapons (sometimes they're not CG I think, but they still end up having the same shading), totally gross. In comparison with the imperfect detailing done by hand in the various weapons used in GitS, and the nice painted look which blends with the characters using them, there's no question which style is superior. Not to mention, the weapon designs in GitS were done by Iso. T_T



Another victim of modern animation production is the declining quality of mob scenes. Both movies have scenes where there are large crowds featured in the background and sometimes the foreground. In the original it is the market scene shown above, and in the sequel it is mostly during the parade. The difference between the two is that in the original market scene, pretty much every single person shown in each scene is actually moving. There are no lazy stand-ins which don't animate but serve to make the scene look "bigger". Yet there are a ton of those in the sequel.

It seems that while they spared no expense on the elaborate CG floats (which look great to be fair), they simply couldn't find the manpower to animate the same sort of crowd sequence they used to be able to. This is also something modern anime all suffer from. Even stuff like Sword of the Stranger and Fate/Zero, with great attention to detail in the mob scenes, generally don't animate every single person. There is enough animated to create the illusion of a busy scene, and there is attention to ensure that each person in the crowd has a unique design, but beyond that there simply isn't the perfection witnessed in the older big budget anime movies. :(





Appendix B: What Psycho-pass Cops Could Learn from GitS

Nuff said. :p
 
Good news for anyone who was already going to the New York International Children's Film Festival to see Wolf Children, and how convenient given all the recent art discussion -- they're also going to have Mamoru Hosoda himself there for two Q&A panels.
Yay! I can never think of anything to ask at those things, though.

This thread moves too fast. I missed all of the mecha talk. Oh well, I'll just leave "GaoGaiGar is better than GL" here and run away.
 
Aug 6, 2009
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Aren't they going to run out of arcs within a year or so at this rate? Lol.
The Chimera Ant arc is really long and there's a shorter arc right after that. If things go well enough and Togashi gets another run on it like the last one he had started fairly soon, they could probably push a year and a half or two years before they really run into a problem.
 
All these people who will experience Attack on Titan for the first time...
Looking forwards to the reactions :lol
If there werent an idol show and cool mechas next season it'd be higher on my list. Hope it gets popular enough to get tons of good fanarts, havent seen much of a following for the series.
 

Brazil

Living in the shadow of Amaz
May 27, 2009
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uol.com.br
Apr 20, 2010
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earth planet
Real talk C.C. and Kallen were lame. Viletta Nu was the only good thing that came out that show.
Viletta wasn't such a great character..She didn't do much when it was important.

Still her design was top tier..

Screw it I am going to watch Inu x Boku SS. Nothing can go wrong with this plan. NOTHING.
Great casting and above average jokes


Everything will be fine.

Gintama 239-240
Gintama 241
Goddamn these episode from year 5 continue to impress, I can't stop laughing.. almost no bad/boring episode.

Just getting better and better, make me sad I almost run out of episodes T____T
I did the same thing ..That season is flawless ( except those anpan episodes ) just catch up with us at episode 261 so that you can experience gintama waiting ( with us )

Further confirmation:

Wondering if they'll do a flashback episode to introduce us to kaito ...

Aren't they going to run out of arcs within a year or so at this rate? Lol.
Yep they probably will.. but then again after the last arc they can end it properly there once this set of events is done. ( not a bad place to end it )
 
Aug 6, 2009
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Wondering if they'll do a flashback episode to introduce us to kaito ...


Yep they probably will.. but then again after the last arc they can end it properly there once this set of events is done. ( not a bad place to end it )
They have to. The arc will fail if they don't. Right now, it feels like between GI and the Ant Arc is the only time they've got to do it.

As for ending it, if you mean gintama style hiatus then sure. I still want to see Togashi's future work animated. The arc after the ant arc is all setup and if they can't start the next arc right after, it would be terrible. An awful place to take a break. This manga hiatus is driving me nuts as is for him to have ended the last arc on a cliffhanger.
 
Aug 6, 2009
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Oh look, just what everyone asked for.

http://www.animenewsnetwork.com/news/2013-02-20/gundam-age-memory-of-eden-compilation-outlined
Even the AGE team has to admit gen-2 is the only good thing to come out of the show. Heck, even if they add new animation this isn't going to go well. The last thing AGE needs is to be cut down and rushed more. Even cutting down to just gen-2 isn't going to make it better.
If they can add more scenes at school, would be entertaining.
 
Apr 20, 2010
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earth planet
They have to. The arc will fail if they don't. Right now, it feels like between GI and the Ant Arc is the only time they've got to do it.
Well maybe they can include it when gon will be talking with Ging friends .. The fact that they removed kaito was a bold move from the start that complicated everything needlessly.

As for ending it, if you mean gintama style hiatus then sure. I still want to see Togashi's future work animated. The arc after the ant arc is all setup and if they can't start the next arc right after, it would be terrible. An awful place to take a break. This manga hiatus is driving me nuts as is for him to have ended the last arc on a cliffhanger.
After the ant arc , there's
Gon's rescue arc with the new president of hunters
but it ends with gon &
ging meeting
.
It's a great way to end things if they don't use the new
Netero son
starting arc .
 
Aug 6, 2009
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Well maybe they can include it when gon will be talking with Ging friends .. The fcat that they removed it was a bold move from the start they complicated everything needlessly.



After the ant arc , there's
Gon's rescue arc with the new president of hunters
but it ends with gon &
ging meeting
.
It's a great way to end things if they don't use the new
Netero son
starting arc .
Sure. That's the best stopping point they could ask for. Still, the next arc appears like it's going to be epic. The changes it's bringing to the HxH world are amazing. It'd be a real shame if it never got animated. So, yeah, good hiatus point but I hope it's not an ending point. Given HxH's popularity, it doesn't seem like they'd stop now. I really hope they give us a hiatus and not filler, though.
 
Apr 20, 2010
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earth planet
Sure. That's the best stopping point they could ask for. Still, the next arc appears like it's going to be epic. The changes it's bringing to the HxH world are amazing. It'd be a real shame if it never got animated. So, yeah, good hiatus point but I hope it's not an ending point. Given HxH's popularity, it doesn't seem like they'd stop now. I really hope they give us a hiatus and not filler, though.
Unless the author decides to draw storyboards only for this arc and do nothing else , it's safe to bet we won't see all those new changes animated anytime soon.
 

Hitokage

Setec Astronomer
May 30, 2004
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Its quite a fun time.
So is Futari wa Precure.
Both are very formulaic but helped to define the genre. How much you can tolerate the monster of the day routine will decide how much you enjoy these shows.
Except one you took half a year to get to where you got with the other in a week. But I'm not disappointed here, it just shows one has more fiber, so to speak.

Anyway, simply being formulaic isn't as important as what a show does with its formula, as you can keep using the same general outline but get quite different stories by building around it. Sailor Moon is pretty good at this overall, and lets itself go free to explore all kinds of wacky antics around the general fact that there's going to be a monster of the week in most eps. Other shows don't handle this nearly as well, rigidly adhering to their formula and become quite boring as a result. In my view, Heartcatch Precure started out extremely stiff at the onset but loosened up over the course of the show. That is, early eps would devote their Act 1 to the victim then Act 2 would simply be about the actual attack and resulting fight. Steps would play out in a highly regular fashion throughout. However, like I said, it gets better.

Precure Max Heart, on the other hand, has an outline that everyone ostensibly goes through the motions without even caring.

I watch anime, I should be fine regarding that. I'll put it on my backlog
The R1 release of it by ADV is horrible. When Toei finally decides to let America have the license again maybe we'll get something like the R2 DVDs which are infinitely better.

Not exaggerating.
 
Aug 25, 2010
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Clouds

plenty of :firehawk, but in the end an underwhelming movie

There you go, now you don't need to watch it!
Given the fact that 5cm is one of my favorite anime of all time, and that I don't fall into the neat little category of people who like to hate on Shinkai, yes, I believe I will watch it, thank you very much.

(Though I will agree in retrospect that Voices tried to do too much and suffered for it. Hopefully Garden is a bit more restrained, and given the promo art so far and note that it takes place in the modern era, that's a good sign.)
 
Sep 17, 2004
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Both are very formulaic but helped to define the genre.
How did PreCure define the genre in your opinion? Its only real innovation I feel was hand-to-hand combat (and maybe a focus on friendship over romance?). "Action" magical girl shows - hell, even the more typical "grow up/transform" stories like Minky Momo etc. - have had a fairly rigid formula for many years.
 
Nov 16, 2010
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How did PreCure define the genre in your opinion? Its only real innovation I feel was hand-to-hand combat (and maybe a focus on friendship over romance?). "Action" magical girl shows - hell, even the more typical "grow up/transform" stories like Minky Momo etc. - have had a fairly rigid formula for many years.
I was more referring to Sailor Moon with that statement but Precure definitely did a lot to popularize the genre further and Im sure added its own twisty to things. I have seen only a tiny cross section of what Precure shows had to offer.
 
Sep 4, 2009
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DMV
Oh look, just what everyone asked for.

http://www.animenewsnetwork.com/news/2013-02-20/gundam-age-memory-of-eden-compilation-outlined
Even the AGE team has to admit gen-2 is the only good thing to come out of the show. Heck, even if they add new animation this isn't going to go well. The last thing AGE needs is to be cut down and rushed more. Even cutting down to just gen-2 isn't going to make it better.
Seeing as Hino is still involved with this I don't really want anything to do with it. It'll be nice when Origin starts so AGE can be relegated to footnote status.
 
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