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[Shin]

I'm reading too much into it, but still curious what happen the 18Gbp/s chips.

Samsung’s immediate production of GDDR6 will play a critical role in early launches of next-generation graphics cards and systems. With all of its improvements in density, performance and energy efficiency, the 16Gb GDDR6 will be widely used in rapidly growing fields such as 8K Ultra HD video processing, virtual reality (VR), augmented reality (AR) and artificial intelligence.

With extensive graphics memory lineups including the new 18Gbps 16Gb GDDR6 and recently introduced 2.4Gbps 8GB HBM2, Samsung expects to dramatically accelerate growth of premium memory market over the next several years.

 

[Insane Metal]

How do you get 20GB GDDR6 when it’s only sold in 16GB, 24GB, or 32GB configurations

 

[mckmas8808]

This actually makes sense for Sony to jump in front of the leaks.

 

[sendit]

So..not because they're scared of Microsoft.

 

[CrustyBritches]

Specs probably aren’t considered as final until the rumoured PSX blowout.

For sure, I was just referring to Kotaku's claim they did it to get out in front of dev kit leaks, but they really didn't detail anything about the hardware that wasn't assumed(Zen 8-core, Navi, etc), so I guess that doesn't really mitigate leaked dev kit specs in my view.

Wired must be grateful, they got a shitload of traffic for what was basically nothing.

 

[Fake]

So..not because they're scared of Microsoft.

It's hard to believe anyone guessed that.

 

[ethomaz]

How do you get 20GB GDDR6 when it’s only sold in 16GB, 24GB, or 32GB configurations

It is sold in 32bits chip of 8Gb (1GB) or 16Gb (2GB)... the spec support 12Gb (1.5GB) too.

Everything else can be made depending of the bus width:

256bits = 8 chips = 8GB or 16GB config.
288bits = 9 chops = 9GB or 18GB config.
320bits = 10 chips = 10GB or 20GB config.
352bits = 11 chips = 11GB or 22GB config.
384bits = 12 chips = 12GB or 24GB config.

There is tons of options to be fair.

 

[McHuj]

Even if PS5 were to have only 8 GB of HBM for ~400 GB/sec BW, I think that maybe sufficient provided Navi drastically improves on efficiency.

That’s around what both the 2080 and 2070 have without any significant bandwidth issues. AMD just needs to increase their bandwidth utilization. There’s plenty of room for improvement it seems.

I know some have bemoaned that Navi is still GCN based, but my theory is that Navi is focused on improving power and performance efficiency. I think we’ll get much better performance/flop with it.

 

[GermanZepp]

Oh please who started the 'MS unlimited cash' thing again? Every time we hear this nonsense.

For what it's worth Sony also turns in billions of profits each year for the last 2-3 years now. Not as much as MS but then again Sony is a 50-60% Playstation business, so Sony actually have much larger funds available to them than MS, which is super ironic isn't it? Xbox must be about 10%, if that, of MS revenue.

In this line of thought, I think or, I hope, Sony realize that PlayStation is the way to go to grow in business. (don't know if true) but, as a player Sony spending big money in PS5 cause the need it to succeed is a good thing. I mean both companies are going to be very aware to not fuck nextgen up from tej beginning.

 

[Freeman454]

This is what i running atm:



Just a copy/paste from my Flickr album

Nice, ballpark PS5 specs

Yeh the 2700X is the best high end CPU on the market.

That would be that i9 9900k, if price doesnt matter atleast.

 

[TeamGhobad]

nexbox will continue with 384 bit bus? why no upgrade from sony on this front still sticking with 256.

 

[DeepEnigma]

nexbox will continue with 384 bit bus? why no upgrade from sony on this front still sticking with 256.

No specs were released.

 

[Imtjnotu]

nexbox will continue with 384 bit bus? why no upgrade from sony on this front still sticking with 256.

Is Sony sticking with a 256?

 

[demigod]

Yea the Wired dude who interviewed Cerny already said that.

Dude is on a roll, lmao.

 

[ethomaz]

Is Sony sticking with a 256?

Nobody knows but seems unlikely.

 

[MiyazakiHatesKojima]

There is something that's bothering me about backward compatibility of PS4 games: Will the PS5 allow us to download the patches of previous generation games?

 

[CyberPanda]

There is something that's bothering me about backward compatibility of PS4 games: Will the PS5 allow us to download the patches of previous generation games?

I’m gonna say, yes.

 

[ANIMAL1975]

https://www.anandtech.com/show/12301/samsung-starts-production-of-hbm2-aquabolt-memory-8-gb-24-gbps

~300 GB/s x 2 stacks (HBM2) + ~130 GB/s (DDR4) = ~733 GB/s

So no news about HBM3 production on time of next gen boxes?

 

[Shin]

 

[Coulomb_Barrier]

Nice, ballpark PS5 specs



That would be that i9 9900k, if price doesnt matter atleast.

No it's pushed way past it's optimum frequency range for its arch, generates too much heat, has huge power draw , it's too expensive and it doesn't come with a cooler, you need a beefy AIO at least to tame it.

 

[CyberPanda]

So no news about HBM3 production on time of next gen boxes?

HBM3 won’t be in the system.

 

[Coulomb_Barrier]

So looking like either a summer or Holidays 2020 release. By that time the rumoured specs will be able to fit into a $450 RRP.

 

[TeamGhobad]

Is Sony sticking with a 256?

no upgrade with the pro.

 

[ANIMAL1975]

CyberPanda
No rumors about it,... But it would be a nice last minute surprise no?
And even read here that it's going to be cheaper than HBM2...?

 

[Aceofspades]

Are there any benefits for using HBM instead of GDDR6?

I have read somewhere that HBM real estate can be really small so remaining space can be utilized by GPU. also in case the rumored HBM+DDR4, what makes Sony add DDR to the memory pool? why not use stacks of HBM only?

 

[ethomaz]

Are there any benefits for using HBM instead of GDDR6?

I have read somewhere that HBM real estate can be really small so remaining space can be utilized by GPU. also in case the rumored HBM+DDR4, what makes Sony add DDR to the memory pool? why not use stacks of HBM only?

HBM2 is smaller and lower latency than GDDR6 but it is way expensive.

So that give you the last question... only HBM2... 20-24GB will make PS5 go to heavens.

 

[Ar¢tos]

Are there any benefits for using HBM instead of GDDR6?

I have read somewhere that HBM real estate can be really small so remaining space can be utilized by GPU. also in case the rumored HBM+DDR4, what makes Sony add DDR to the memory pool? why not use stacks of HBM only?

If they use a secondary ARM processor for background OS/stand-by tasks like the PS4 has, it will need it's own RAM and it's a waste to use fast expensive HBM or gddr6.

 

[GermanZepp]

There was a "leak" sometime ago, months, last year, or even older . IDK if was from Osiris, in which there was no specks, but a list of a couple of nextgen features like, Sony wanting to improve access and "instant" availability for games. This is maybe in line with the SSD confirmation, can't find the leak for quote. Anyone knows what i'm talking to?

 

[Coulomb_Barrier]

In this line of thought, I think or, I hope, Sony realize that PlayStation is the way to go to grow in business. (don't know if true) but, as a player Sony spending big money in PS5 cause the need it to succeed is a good thing. I mean both companies are going to be very aware to not fuck nextgen up from tej beginning.

Yeah getting the PS5 right and continuing their dominance is absolutely critical to Sony as a whole, the stakes are super high. For MS, not at all.

 

[DeepEnigma]

There is something that's bothering me about backward compatibility of PS4 games: Will the PS5 allow us to download the patches of previous generation games?

Yes, why wouldn't it? The OS/store is going to remain the same (OpenBSD) platform, with obvious revisions and more QoS improvements for the end user. Think of it not unlike the PC/Mobile OS's.

 

[Chozofication_]

They keep sinking deeper into the MS clutch......8TF PS5 in November 2020, that's not even trying to hide your bias...I'm sure if Cerny released PRO in 2017 like XBONEX, he could have delivered an 8TF PS4PRO with 16GB of ram for $500 with all the vega features ontop...

Cerny said, PS4+PRO are in the same generation, and that PS5 will be on a whole other level, he said PS5 will be a next generational leap from that and that's one of the things he's focused on, but NOOOO... 8TF, just below double PRO's 4.2TF and 2 TF more than XBONEX.....and of course they have to do raytracing, push 4k and 8k and VR, with next gen visuals and better frames. So yes, this shameful speculation.......That's some really lowballing stuff going on at DF.....To be frank, Leadbetter came off just like Brad Sams in this video, when I thought he was the more mature and composed one in the 45 minute video with the hysterical hyenna and "60, 60, 60, XBOX-ONE 30, sub 30is ok,60, 30, Ryse at teen framerates is a solid 30fps-X" .......

As for all this Gonzalo talk? The press knows nothing, nada, zilch.......Till Sony says something on clockspeeds, ram etc......No one knows a thing.....Why the sudden interest to know actual PS5 specs? so MS can one-up PS, this is hilarious.....Gonzalo was lastly seen in a database with clocks raised to 1.8GHZ in April 2019 from 1 Ghz in January...Guess what, Navi 10 launches at 7/7, with rumors of GTX-1080 performance at $259.....Gonzalo could be a desktop APU, it could be an early PS5 devkit, true, yet people just don't pay attention......Why would dev kits be finalized so early in the game towards a November 2020 PS5 launch? If Leadbetter assumes that 1.8Ghz is final clock, why would PS5 dev kit hardware be finalized so early, when PS5 chipsets won't be ready till late 2020?

To base final PS5 specs on that is presposterous......If 1.8Ghz on the GPU is final spec, then it speaks more to a Navi product that's launching in a couple of weeks or months and if it's a dev kit, it's an early one......Wired said, when showing the Spiderman demo, the PS5 devkit was an early, low speed version, so, was it running at 1Ghz or 1.8Ghz? and if the devkit gained 800Mhz over 2 months, what type of improvements do we forsee in another two months, in September, In December 2019, In February 2020, In April June and September 2020 etc....

The press is not piecing anything properly here, all I hear is raytracing being downplayed because it's on consoles, but they can't see more than 8TF on a PS5.....>Why isn't anyone talking about how audio will be a heavy focus and finally receive a next generation leap that we didn't get from PS3 to PS4? Why aren't more people talking about improvements to audio on PS5 via raytracing? and How that will impact gameplay, A.I etc....>All we're doing is lowballing and deflecting.....How about the press discuss, how impressive Sony's Disc installs were on PS4 and how much they can improve that with an SSD, how about the software improvements they will provide on top of that, better/faster I/O, cache systems, media chips.......We're so stuck on this 3.2Ghz CPU/1.8GHz GPU BS, we aren't seeing the forest from the trees.....people are trying to extrapolate Vega CU's to a new arch in Navi, when they know nothing about Navi and it's efficiencies or it's arch setup, extrapolating Vega 7nm to navi 7nm as if we they could ever derive at real-world performance or any modicum of spec accuracy through such.....And why? All in a bid to report potential PS5 specs to their lord and savior MS....We can't lose the power battle to Sony, we won't relinquish the power this time lord MS..... Here's our findings Lord MS, they will only be 8TF, just pure lunacy if you ask me....

It's as if no one is interested in the potential of next gen, rather, they're all mired in a war, where no one knows what they're talking about.... and are just propping their favourite company in the great battle of the unknown, fighting in the dark.....Throws small stone at......Hey, my console will be more powerful than yours.....Hmmm! How do you know? You have the specs? Crickets.........Ha! this is hilarious......This other console won't be anything more than 8TF and 16GB of Vram, 24 Gigs is a pipedream..... But why? it's landing in late 2020, No? Explain........... Crickets......Hmmph!, all I know is that the other one will be more powerful man......

This is the same media that is always so sure of everything, till real info comes.....The same media that said 7nm gaming Vega would never come, SSD was a pipe dream, consoles won't do RTX, XBONE would be more powerful over PS4. All XBONE launch games were running at 1080p, mostly 60fps at a preview event, did you play all and test?, no, they told me...Shoutouts to Tom Morgan........The naked eye cannot perceive the difference between 720p and 1080p past 50 inches", Hey, that's what I've heard too ......Yuh-eesh!

Dude do you have an alter of mark cerny in your closet? You honestly think a ps4 pro in 2017 could have 16gb gddr5 and 8tf?

MarK cerny said you need 8tf for 4k. Yet he made the ps4 pro at 4.2tf precisely because how difficult that 8tf figure was to hit on 16nm. Such a console would be gigantic and a major fire hazard, but sony would also take a bath on such a console for 500 bucks.

 

[xool]

On the subject of bandwidth - 8 core Zens support dual-ported (2 channel) memory - because with that many threads (up to 16) - they benefit from it - but that's just in a standard 'PC' configuration. If last(this) gen is anything to go by the Zen CPU will be sharing memory with a big GPU - add more memory contention.

..I've got to wonder if single ported memory is really enough (yeah I know GDDR6 supports 2 16 bit channels - but I mean 'real' dual channel memory) -- we've heard nothing on this .. also wondering if "xbox is more advanced" rumours refer to a better memory architecture - maybe HBM2 ?

 

[mckmas8808]

On the subject of bandwidth - 8 core Zens support dual-ported (2 channel) memory - because with that many threads (up to 16) - they benefit from it - but that's just in a standard 'PC' configuration. If last(this) gen is anything to go by the Zen CPU will be sharing memory with a big GPU - add more memory contention.

..I've got to wonder if single ported memory is really enough (yeah I know GDDR6 supports 2 16 bit channels - but I mean 'real' dual channel memory) -- we've heard nothing on this .. also wondering if "xbox is more advanced" rumours refer to a better memory architecture - maybe HBM2 ?

The lastest rumor the PS5 is using HBM2.

 

[SoulChamber]

In this line of thought, I think or, I hope, Sony realizes that PlayStation is the way to go to grow in business (don't know if true). But as a player, Sony spending big money in PS5 because they need it to succeed is a good thing. I mean both companies are going to be very aware to not fuck nextgen up from the beginning.

Sony can't afford any more big fuckups ever, especially financially-wise like with the PS3. The company themselves aren't exactly as big as they used to be.

Microsoft, however, they'll survive. Sony wishes that they have the kind of money & huge success that they do.

 

[CyberPanda]

Sony can't afford any more big fuckups ever, especially financially-wise like with the PS3. The company themselves aren't exactly as big as they used to be.

Microsoft, however, they'll survive. Sony wishes that they have the kind of money & huge success that they do.

Yes, Sony has a lot riding on the PS business. It's one of the few divisions that makes them a lot of money besides their insurance in Japan.

 

[StreetsofBeige]

Yes, Sony has a lot riding on the PS business. It's one of the few divisions that makes them a lot of money besides their insurance in Japan.

Sony should stik to games, music, movies, semiconductors and insurance.

All the rest have been lousy for years and kacked. Their TV segment has been a drain for probably 10+ years, yet they still stick with it draining their resources.

They probably think that Sony TVs are still the face of Sony. I don't see it. If you check their latest financial report, the TV division isn't even the biggest. It's been getting smaller and smaller every year. PS is the face of Sony.

And it's not like Sony even co-promotes TVs and Playstation trying to get people to buy a TV, a stereo and a PS (which you'd think they'd do to promote both product lines).

Weird thinking.

 

[Gamernyc78]

Sony can't afford any more big fuckups ever, especially financially-wise like with the PS3. The company themselves aren't exactly as big as they used to be.

Microsoft, however, they'll survive. Sony wishes that they have the kind of money & huge success that they do.

Quite the opposite. Microsoft wishes they had the success in gaming tht Sony is currently enjoying and the mind share. Sony is in a way better position financially gaming wise. Please don't bulk Xbox with the whole of Microsoft as different departments have different budgets and goals and do not have unlimited funds. The opposite, if Xbox doesn't perform well and has a big fuck up investors will cry to dismantle it. Sony has made Playstation the Centerpiece and it has made more than enough money this gen to withstand a fuck up. For tht reason alone Sony will keep pushing it and make sure they make the right decisions. If they have a fuck up they'll remedy it and push forward because it is the star of their portfolio.

 

[SoulChamber]

Gamernyc78 Yeah, I was referring to Microsoft surviving as a whole, not their gaming division.

 

[Gamernyc78]

Gamernyc78 Yeah, I was referring to Microsoft surviving as a whole, not their gaming division.

Microsoft is too big, diversified and doing well in most sectors, that goes without saying. They are a damn trillion dollar company of course they'll survive. Their cloud solution for "non gaming applications" is making it grow like crazy.

 

[Freeman454]

Sony should stik to games, music, movies, semiconductors and insurance.

All the rest have been lousy for years and kacked. Their TV segment has been a drain for probably 10+ years, yet they still stick with it draining their resources.

They probably think that Sony TVs are still the face of Sony. I don't see it. If you check their latest financial report, the TV division isn't even the biggest. It's been getting smaller and smaller every year. PS is the face of Sony.

And it's not like Sony even co-promotes TVs and Playstation trying to get people to buy a TV, a stereo and a PS (which you'd think they'd do to promote both product lines).

Weird thinking.

For a company not even started with gaming
Yes MS is much bigger but their also in the PC/windows market and cloud etc

 

[StreetsofBeige]

For a company not even started with gaming
Yes MS is much bigger but their also in the PC/windows market and cloud etc

The big money is in non-hardware. Sony still gets big revenue from PS hardware, but it's not that profitable compared to software sales and royalty fees. They do have some imaging/semiconductor stuff that makes money (specialized gadgets), but mainstream stuff like TVs, mobile do lousy compared to other divisions. And they already trashed their laptop division years ago.

Not surprisingly, any mainstream kind of electronics is tough to make profits as there's a million other companies making similar stuff.

I bet any money there are big discussions in board rooms about their TV/audio division. You probably have one half that want to gut it as it kills the financials, but then some stubborn ones who want to keep it at all costs because they think when people think Sony, they think Trinitron TVs from 20 years ago..

 

[xool]

...

I bet any money there are big discussions in board rooms about their TV/audio division. You probably have one half that want to gut it as it kills the financials, but then some stubborn ones who want to keep it at all costs because they think when people think Sony, they think Trinitron TVs from 20 years ago..

TVs are making a little under 10% profit as a percentage of revenue, actually better than pictures (movies) .. but still so not great - but it's their mobile division that is a dumpster fire ..loss of nearly 100billion yen on revenue of 500billion

numbers here https://www.sony.net/SonyInfo/IR/library/presen/er/pdf/18q4_sonypre.pdf (bar charts from slide 16 onwards)

 

[Freeman454]

Sony could aswel be only PlayStation.