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Hardware Wired: Next Playstation will be call Playstation 5. More details.

ManaByte

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I'm not baiting, wtf, the larger argument is the idea that PC gaming is just as good/affordable as getting something like a PS5 and in order to preserve that illusion you've been using evasive language surrounding the SSD tech.
I'm not using evasive language. Do you even know what NVMe is? And I mean without googling a non-consumer level server drive.

Scarlett and the PS5 aren't being built with magical hardware. They're using technology that you can go out right now and buy. Can you do it for $500? Probably not. But the tech exists and that's what's going in the new systems; just like with the PS4 and Xbox One. Both used AMD CPUs and GPUs that had PC equivalents. Like like the current systems, shortly after they launch you can go out and buy the same GPU and slap it in your PC (although the high end cards by then will probably better).

NVMe is newer SSD tech. Most computers don't use them yet because they need a specific port on the motherboard so most people use SATA SSDs. But with the right interface NVMe is faster.

By the time they need to mass produce the PS5 and Scarlett, prices will also be at a level where they could realistically put a 1Tb drive in the systems and sell for $400-500.
 
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MiyazakiHatesKojima

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Paging MiyazakiHatesKojima MiyazakiHatesKojima

Didn't you mention there was a "hole" or something you "insert" in the PS5 that is innovative but you can't speak on it (after you came back from the ban request), you silly lovable little troll you?
LMAO! I remember that post. During that ban phase, I was called to Sony HQ down in San Diego and discussed about some of the tentative innovations which were being planned for the next generation console. I suggested that a hole needed to be included because gamers nowadays are phallic in nature and like to stick things inside holes a lot more than usual. Shawn Layden agreed to my suggestion and greenlit the idea. Sometimes, I think I was the one responsible for his firing....
 

Nero_PR

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The games are gonna be more expensive on those 100gb discs I think right? At least at first, gone are the £50/$50 starter rrp games.

£70/$70 per base game do you reckon Minimum? With some games up to £100 for gold editions, ultimate editions hitting 140 on physical, digital prices even higher. A few months to a year in that should come down to about 49.99.

So what’s that in Australia like $5000 aud per censored Mortal Kombat game? 😉nah kidding mates it’s more like $130 aud right? over in Canada $115 cad?

Because we all know how the pricing goes, it never quite matches the USA, These days I feel like they interchange the $ for the £ rather than the correct exchange rate.

And we’re fucked after Brexit on Game pricesin the UK anyway, even if the rest of the world stays around the PS4 RRP entry point prices.
I will get fucked by the prices here in Brazil. You are not alone my friend.
 
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I'm not using evasive language. Do you even know what NVMe is? And I mean without googling a non-consumer level server drive.

Scarlett and the PS5 aren't being built with magical hardware. They're using technology that you can go out right now and buy. Can you do it for $500? Probably not. But the tech exists and that's what's going in the new systems; just like with the PS4 and Xbox One. Both used AMD CPUs and GPUs that had PC equivalents. Like like the current systems, shortly after they launch you can go out and buy the same GPU and slap it in your PC (although the high end cards by then will probably better).

NVMe is newer SSD tech. Most computers don't use them yet because they need a specific port on the motherboard so most people use SATA SSDs. But with the right interface NVMe is faster.

By the time they need to mass produce the PS5 and Scarlett, prices will also be at a level where they could realistically put a 1Tb drive in the systems and sell for $400-500.
That's the sort of reply I'm looking for. When we get a full look at the full package of the new systems I think it's going to easily be a more affordable price than a PC with all the same specs, that's my main point here. There's a lot of talk about how PC gaming is better at the same price but at least at launch I don't see that being true for next gen. Similar to the 360 gen, PC's weren't 360 level for 360 prices when it launched, this past gen was a fluke in that sense.
 

Yoboman

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"[the controller] doesn't have a name yet"

Gosh, I wonder what it might be called ...

The next-gen controller uses a USB Type-C connector for charging ✅
Larger-capacity battery ✅
Haptics motors ✅
A bit heavier than the DualShock 4 ✅❌ (depending on your point of view)
I’ve been lifting for the past 7 years so I’m ready to take on that extra 30 grams of controller weight
 
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Bogroll

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You're baiting and trying to argue in circles. You asked if it's analogous to the $100 NMVe drives, and it is. MS and Sony aren't inventing new hard drive tech, they're using NMVe.
Any idea if the NMVe is basically the same tech as HP were selling in their desktops 2 or possibly 3 years ago ? I remember it specifically being advertised in their PC's.
 

Generic

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Mandatory installation for games is underwhelming, so is the limited backwards compatibility. Guess I will go PC-only in the next gen.
 

ManaByte

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Mandatory installation for games is underwhelming, so is the limited backwards compatibility. Guess I will go PC-only in the next gen.
I don't think limited is confirmed. I think they're just using lawsuit safe wording right now while they test games.

All this talk about name, haptics and such. But where is the most important info we need? Spid

Was Bill farting?
Look at Michelle Obama’s face. In fact, look at all the faces around him. It must really have stunk.
Bill’s like “That’s right... breathe deep.”
He was checking out Ivanka.
 
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Bryank75

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The fuck?

PC has Raytracing, SSDs, 3d audio, and doesn't care about haptics with M&KB. LOL, how about the PC being able to run games at higher settings, higher resolutions, and 60+fps, all while playing the same fucking games bro.

The only thing consoles have over pc is the loading thing... Hell my 2080ti will smoke whatever the PS5 eventually has in it.

The delusion is so strong right now.
The weakness of PC is its lack of standardization.... you can't make a character travel super fast or fly a jet at mach+ if the world can't load. So all the power a fraction of the PC community may have is meaningless.

So is raytracing to most of the PC community....whereas it will be 100% effective for PS5 users.

Also the fact that it is hardware accelerated, means that combined with the new cpu and gpu and proper optimization, you will probably see more impressive visuals on console. Particularly mid-cycle.

Also haptic will be incredible, imagine it paired with VR.
 

Yoboman

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It's probably been speculated on already. I'm just too lazy to read up, but I wonder if Sony's silence this year was because of Layden.
The more surprising thing is we are hearing anything at all with more than a year till launch

I guess it beats inaccurate rumours flying around
 

HolyTruth

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- Ray tracing support is hardware based
not really. "there is ray-tracing acceleration in the GPU hardware". Well, technically, of course, you could use GPU hardware for ray-tracing, but this will kill your performance.

What you want is dedicated ray-tracing hardware cores. that's not what the PS5 is able to do. they will use resources of the GPU hardware for ray-tracing, but then you can't use those resources for other stuff.

The next Xbox (scarlett) will have dedicated ray-tracing hardware codes, see here: https://www.windowscentral.com/xbox-scarlett-features-dedicated-ray-tracing-cores-says-gears-5-developer

This is a HUGE difference, like generational difference.
 

Croatoan

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The weakness of PC is its lack of standardization.... you can't make a character travel super fast or fly a jet at mach+ if the world can't load. So all the power a fraction of the PC community may have is meaningless.

So is raytracing to most of the PC community....whereas it will be 100% effective for PS5 users.

Also the fact that it is hardware accelerated, means that combined with the new cpu and gpu and proper optimization, you will probably see more impressive visuals on console. Particularly mid-cycle.

Also haptic will be incredible, imagine it paired with VR.
You have to be trolling.... Haptics have been on PC VR since Vive launched lol and your other points are complete delusion.
 

Bitmap Frogs

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not really. "there is ray-tracing acceleration in the GPU hardware". Well, technically, of course, you could use GPU hardware for ray-tracing, but this will kill your performance.

What you want is dedicated ray-tracing hardware cores. that's not what the PS5 is able to do. they will use resources of the GPU hardware for ray-tracing, but then you can't use those resources for other stuff.

The next Xbox (scarlett) will have dedicated ray-tracing hardware codes, see here: https://www.windowscentral.com/xbox-scarlett-features-dedicated-ray-tracing-cores-says-gears-5-developer

This is a HUGE difference, like generational difference.
No, not really.

If you look at what the best nvidia has to offer right now, raytracing effects while looking cool are somewhat limited. Assuming scarlet has the equivalent of a 2080 in raytracing hardware, you're taking a few puddles of water here and there, and it might get put to good us in things like in-engine cutscenes.

Don't get me wrong, it will have something the ps5 can't do, sure. We're not talking about scarlet being able to do real time pixar movies eh.
 

Croatoan

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No, not really.

If you look at what the best nvidia has to offer right now, raytracing effects while looking cool are somewhat limited. Assuming scarlet has the equivalent of a 2080 in raytracing hardware, you're taking a few puddles of water here and there, and it might get put to good us in things like in-engine cutscenes.

Don't get me wrong, it will have something the ps5 can't do, sure. We're not talking about scarlet being able to do real time pixar movies eh.
Having played Control with RTX completely on I will say Raytracing is much more than a "couple of puddles" . Ray tracing is a generational leap in rendering in all aspects (lighting, ao, etc). Playing with it off or on is like PS3 vs PS4.

That said, Nvidia's ray tracing sucks and will be dead due to the standardization from consoles.
 
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Bryank75

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You have to be trolling.... Haptics have been on PC VR since Vive launched lol and your other points are complete delusion.
So what is going to happen when GTA6 comes out and they have a Jet that can go over Mach 1 ?
PS5 will be able to do that across the board..... will PC gamers have to buy an ultra fast SSD or what if PS has proprietary tech? Will PC have to wait till SSD reaches that speed?

Likewise GPU's take a huge nosedive when raytracing is turned on, will you be sacrificing FPS or resolution? I am curious...
 

Croatoan

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So what is going to happen when GTA6 comes out and they have a Jet that can go over Mach 1 ?
PS5 will be able to do that across the board..... will PC gamers have to buy an ultra fast SSD or what if PS has proprietary tech? Will PC have to wait till SSD reaches that speed?

Likewise GPU's take a huge nosedive when raytracing is turned on, will you be sacrificing FPS or resolution? I am curious...
First off, the jet wont go mach fucking 1, as a dev myself I can tell you have no clue what you are talking about. Secondly, if I am wrong, anyone who is unable to play a game on PC with the jet going, LOL, mach 1 will just have to upgrade. Thats what PC gamers do, they upgrade when they have to.

This idea that a company will make a third party game like GTA6 and exclude that game from being on PC because of fucking loading is completely retarded.
 

DeepEnigma

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Having played Control with RTX completely on I will say Raytracing is much more than a "couple of puddles" . Ray tracing is a generational leap in rendering in all aspects (lighting, ao, etc). Playing with it off or on is like PS3 vs PS4.

That said, Nvidia's ray tracing sucks and will be dead due to the standardization from consoles.
A good portion of that is because control omitted a lot of standard rasterization, AO and cube map effects it would have had if it did not rely on the ray tracing.

They just did not develop them at all like they would have, and threw it all through RT so the leap looked greater, but did not look that much greater than compared to even tradition games from 2014 using long form methods.

If that is the future we have to endure, then it kind of sucks for those who once got the effects prior to RT tech. Almost lazy in a way, where base games are now taking a step back missing features it once had (raterization, cube map reflections, AO, etc..)
 
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KAL2006

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How would they sell you another peripheral for VR then? 🤔
Yes but perhaps they should look at it differently people can jump into VR without buying a peripheral, just a camera and headset needed instead of a controller as well.

Imagine getting into VR costs $300 without the need for a controller but costs $370 with a controller. That saving of $70 maybe make people more tempted to jump in.

Also if every system came standard with motion controllers we would have more developers making some motion games as well which I would mind. I actually enjoyed Wii Sports, Red Steel 2 and etc on Wii, would have been cool to get these types of games back but with better hardware and better online. Sports Champions on PS3 was great.
 
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Croatoan

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A good portion of that is because control omitted a lot of standard rasterization, AO and cube map effects it would have had if it did not rely on the ray tracing.

They just did not develop them at all like they would have, and threw it all through RT so the leap looked greater, but did not look that much greater than compared to even tradition games from 2014 using long form methods.

If that is the future we have to endure, then it kind of sucks for those who once got the effects prior to RT tech. Almost lazy in a way, where base games are now taking a step back missing features it once had (raterization, cube map reflections, AO, etc..)
I'm sorry but RT is the future of game rendering, just like PBR before it. Within five years there will be no AAA games with realistic visuals that are not using RT. Notice I did not say "RTX" is the future, because it isn't. RTX is just a marketing gimmick.
 
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Panajev2001a

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You don't have to exactly copy Nvidia's approach.

You could chose to do ray / BV tests on dedicated or specialised hardware, but do ray / triangle intersection tests in a shader [edit: on more RT friendly CUs], for example.

You could also allow more developer control over acceleration structures.

I look forward to seeing AMD and Intel's approaches compared to Nvidias. Nvidia's RT cores are dead silicon if not used for RT, which is itself dependant upon accepting Nvidia's black box approach to RT. There may be a better way to integrate RT workloads into the traditional render and compute pipelines, with the necessary modifications.



Err ... come again?

I said that I think Sony and MS will have very similar implementations, both based largely on AMDs technology ...?
There are some people that actual pushed the idea closer to the power consumption envelope of mobile chips and thus easier to scale up to something like a game console: https://cdn2.imgtec.com/whitepapers/powervr/ray-tracing/powervr-shining-a-light-on-ray-tracing.pdf

A good read, kind of goes on to what you could do to make it more efficient especially with dynamic geometry.
 

Bryank75

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First off, the jet wont go mach fucking 1, as a dev myself I can tell you have no clue what you are talking about. Secondly, if I am wrong, anyone who is unable to play a game on PC with the jet going, LOL, mach 1 will just have to upgrade. Thats what PC gamers do, they upgrade when they have to.

This idea that a company will make a third party game like GTA6 and exclude that game from being on PC because of fucking loading is completely retarded.
Did I say that they wouldn't release it? no.....

Also I am not attacking you or even PC really. It is just a different approach / a more individualistic approach to gaming.

I am stating where I think PS5 will have an advantage regarding standardization, which is the philosophy behind consoles.
Of course there are advantages to PC also, they can upgrade faster and components are replaceable far more easily.
 

DeepEnigma

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I'm sorry but RT is the future of game rendering. Within five years there will be no AAA games with realistic visuals that are not using RT. Notice I did not say "RTX", is the future, because it isn't. RTX is just a marketing gimmick.
I never said it wasn't? :pie_thinking: I am actually excited for it. Especially when it comes to GI, since I am a huge lighting fan in games.

But what Control did was cheap. You had a damned wall in an office with solid white panels with RT off. But then on, they magically became black glass with reflections, where in the past you would get reflection maps developed. You did not even get fake glass, you got solid white walls. Now people without RT have no choice but to stare at an ultra low wall setting no matter how high they put the texture and world effects up, or buy an RTX card currently.

It felt more marketing push with that game, omitting basic features we had for years and years.
 
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Danjin44

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One of the launch game is rumored to be a remake of Demon's souls.
I hope to see more than remake/remaster I want to see new IP similar to Gravity Rush, The Last Guardian and even full on JRPG from Studio Japan.
 

TheGreatYosh

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So it's not going to be called PS4 2? I had good sources though. They must have called an audible after I revealed the name.
 
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Panajev2001a

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First off, the jet wont go mach fucking 1, as a dev myself I can tell you have no clue what you are talking about. Secondly, if I am wrong, anyone who is unable to play a game on PC with the jet going, LOL, mach 1 will just have to upgrade. Thats what PC gamers do, they upgrade when they have to.

This idea that a company will make a third party game like GTA6 and exclude that game from being on PC because of fucking loading is completely retarded.
PC’s would be able to brute force away, sooner or later, some limitations.
When price and power consumptions are not your biggest limit there is so much someone else can punch above their weight.

Still, what console generation transitions can make more likely is the reimagining of a software stack between external I/O and CPU/GPU that is optimised around much much slower spinning hard disk drives, On Windows and macOS you would see such a transition take a lot longer because of the difficulty in bringing breaking changes like that to more diverse ISV and user bases.
 

Yoboman

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I’m thinking they might leave it all for E3

Seems like a lot of the tidbits they might have thrown into a Feb conference are out there to some extent. Rough specs and a vision of hardware ability, controller capability, some tech demos, launch window.

1 big event with price, games, launch date and design seems a good possibility. Then more info drips for U, online etc in State of Plays up until launch
 

Vol5

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Sony are incredibly smart to announce this via something other than the gaming press. Opens up conversation to more people who don't necessary tune into E3.
 

ManaByte

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I’m thinking they might leave it all for E3

Seems like a lot of the tidbits they might have thrown into a Feb conference are out there to some extent. Rough specs and a vision of hardware ability, controller capability, some tech demos, launch window.

1 big event with price, games, launch date and design seems a good possibility. Then more info drips for U, online etc in State of Plays up until launch
Things get drowned out at E3. They'll do the same they did with the PS4. Reveal it on February and then fill in stuff at E3.
 

Panajev2001a

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not really. "there is ray-tracing acceleration in the GPU hardware". Well, technically, of course, you could use GPU hardware for ray-tracing, but this will kill your performance.

What you want is dedicated ray-tracing hardware cores. that's not what the PS5 is able to do. they will use resources of the GPU hardware for ray-tracing, but then you can't use those resources for other stuff.

The next Xbox (scarlett) will have dedicated ray-tracing hardware codes, see here: https://www.windowscentral.com/xbox-scarlett-features-dedicated-ray-tracing-cores-says-gears-5-developer

This is a HUGE difference, like generational difference.
It goes deeper than this... if they were to include RT cores they would not have space for all the other shader cores... they are screwed either way. If they only had magic balance tech like the others do :rolleyes:...

Seriously, you are twisting wording that has been standard in tech for years: PS5 will have dedicated HW resources for RT, not sure what else they can say to avoid this concern “posting”... BTW, like for Scarlett and RTX, dedicated RT resources / cores have little use outside of RT the more they are optimised for a specific RT implementation.