Witcher 3 downgrade arguments in here and nowhere else

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Skyzard

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And where is the downgrade? It looks better than before.
Conveniently left out the comparison image to try and sway people on colour = upgrade? Forget NPC counts (lol), the lighting looks flat in the below image compared to the top one.

This has been blurred too (for people who think sharpening is the magic cure), even though it's already compressed:



It's strange because it seems to look worse to many people, including a large number on GAF who are posting color altered images that are more often than not similar to the old colors rather than the new ones.

The vanilla palette in combination with lighting that people frequently call "flatter" than previously, reminds people of dated visuals like Morrowind moreso than more modern graphical successes.
People are using sweet-fx on in-game shots, why wouldn't I correct the colour for a fairer comparison and to have a clearer idea of what else had changed.

Those shots are from 2 years ago. Ignoring any improvements to the engine they could have made in that time, I can't even amend the colours like sweetfx would? lol.

4K shots do look good though, sure.

The thing that really disturbs me about all this stuff is the way that it gets consolidated as fact by less tech-minded gamers who have no idea what has happened behind the scenes but get sucked in by a couple of idiots on YouTube making a big deal about a 'downgrade'.
Downgrades are a big deal to people who care about being misled, especially if they care about graphics (who doesn't).

IN-GAME FOOTAGE:




etc

Don't claim bullshit because other people can spot differences you can't.

-[Although I understand what you mean about possibly missing out on the game due to downgrade discussions, but that's what happens].
 

HeWhoWalks

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It looks better now, I don't see your point.
You don't really have to see the point. The downgrades (or as I like to put them, "changes") have been noted and addressed. The game still looks fantastic, but hardly anyone disputes that.
 

Gamezone

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I have been playing The Witcher 3 on my Xbox One for a few days now. The framerate is horrible, but I don`t think like the game have very good graphics. It looks good and all, but I still feel like last generation games like GTA 5 and Red Dead Redemtion looks a bit better when exploring the open world.
 

viveks86

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I think the main difference between old footage and new footage (or the game) is than old footage doesn't have dynamic TOD. Instead, they added local light points to simulate a real global illumination the same way some old games did before (or crysis for add visual punch in cinematics where local light points subtly lit faces or important things of the scene). That difference is really big. In ACUnity, that global illumination info is stored into the textures and that's the reason why texture data is so big in the game and TOD is not dynamic. When The Witcher 3 shifted to a real dynamic TOD lighting system, those hand placed light points to simulate GI in those few parts showed in trailers had to be eliminated. I think CDPR thought that at some point during development they could incorporate light probes same way that FarCry 3 and 4 did, but when they realized that point will not come they started the slow PR spin about how the new lighting system is better for most but worse for a few.

Another thing changed is they added hand selected colorgrading for every scene in trailers. That artistic choice is really difficult to implement in a dynamic TOD open world. More so, the fullscreen bloom effect is really good for a trailer but people could complain if that effect is enabled for hours. You can see in trailers how white hair of Geralt has a lot of bloom (or armor shoulders).

Last but not less important, every trailer and gameplay footage before release as LODs and mipmaps disabled. This means that every asset is full quality no matter the distance. That is the main reason why sharpen filter affects so much to every pixel. There are texture aliasing in every inch of videos and screenshots, and grass is too sharpen too for that reason, the 2D assets with grass texture are more detailed in the distance than pixel density can show. Enabling mipmaps is a must to avoid texture aliasing and alleviate video memory but thin elements as grass textures have the risk to end being a plain texture loosing the gaps because the soft filtering that create the different mips.
Good post! Agree with all of that.

Gorgeous shots. Excuse me, sir, but what is your sweetFX config ?
Here :)
http://pastebin.com/KGPDrrP7
 

viveks86

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Holy shit, oh man.

This is a joke comparison right? Different weather and time of day etc etc?

Or is that original shot complete fiction or CG trailer work? Because it looks insanely amazing.
If there is one downgrade that really bothers me, it's the ocean simulation. It actually feels boring now and detracts from the experience. The tessellation tech is still there, but almost everything that made it impressive or exciting is gone. I tried sailing yesterday (even tried using console commands to enable storm) and it was still so... tame. Really lost all incentive to sail :(
 

Yasae

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If there is one downgrade that really bothers me, it's the ocean simulation. It actually feels boring now and detracts from the experience. The tessellation tech is still there, but almost everything that made it impressive or exciting is gone. I tried sailing yesterday (even tried using console commands to enable storm) and it was still so... tame. Really lost all incentive to sail :(
There are two things which would spruce up this game quite a bit: better water and grass.
 

viveks86

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There are two things which would spruce up this game quite a bit: better water and grass.
I'm actually fine with the grass. It looks fantastic with INI tweaks for density and distance along with sharpening. The water though… :(
 

DOWN

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There are two things which would spruce up this game quite a bit: better water and grass.
well joke's on us because those are the most abundant visual elements in the game and they look rough as hell. RIP good foliage in the most foliage focused game of the gen.
 

Hobiologe

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I almost have the feeling, the downgrade was good for the game or let's say, the best what could happen for this game. Because without this impressive reveal- and target trailers this game wouldn't have received this huge awareness over the years, respectively couldn't have achieved its final budget.

That's why I can live with this downgrade, especially as a console gamer. This game is so huge, so impressive, this amazing atmosphere and graphics, especially this love of detail and every single sidequest or random event is much better than standard mainquests of "comparable" RPGs.

I admit, I was also a bit upset about CDPR about their communication and marketing tricks, but after hours of spending with this game I just can praise CDPR and wish them to sell millions of it. And honestly speaking, I'm pretty much OK with the same "downgrade" procedure for (hopefully) The Witcher 4, when the outcome is again such a gem.
 

Anton Sugar

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I'm only playing on the X1 but I agree, it's extremely beautiful. Not technically the best, but sometimes when you're riding across the landscape and the wind looks perfect, it can be beautiful (or haunting, depending on weather and time of day).

Can't wait till I upgrade my computer.
 

nib95

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What is different and better about the lighting and post processing?
The light shafts in the tree's, the lighting and shadows on the buildings, the fog and volumetrics amongst and around the crowd/buildings. The new version looks far more flat and less realistic.
 

wanderjahr

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I have to say, I'm so glad this thread exists if only to keep the negativity and entitlement from spilling out.

Get. Over. Yourselves.
 

Skyzard

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I fail to see how the old one looks better.
That's a different area, this is the one:



It's not bad now. Better with 1.04 too on PC at 1440p anyway. But yeah, same old story, lighting and vegetation.

I tried what I could, with the E3VFX mod, to replicate the look (with the sharpness all the way up, as well).
Not too shabby...

A problem with the original image is the colouring they went for that scene looks pretty bad, it's actually pretty impressive graphically. Witcher 3 holds up but it's still behind there.

If they add settings to increase the distant object quality some more and turn up npc counts, in the right light it would look pretty close.

They got it good enough if you can get it to 1440p imo, great bloom/decent light shafts...saves the game graphically.

Nice lighting is always a lie...except for some ubisoft games...let's see how far off ea's are. Shame about the vegetation but the recent patch helps things out in some areas and it doesn't look bad at a bit higher resolution.







 

CyberPunked

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That's a different area, this is the one:



It's not bad now. Better with 1.04 too on PC at 1440p anyway. But yeah, same old story, lighting and vegetation.
You don't actually think the old lighting looks better do you? They hadn't even implemented PBR into the game when that screenshot was taken.
 

KoopaTheCasual

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I almost have the feeling, the downgrade was good for the game or let's say, the best what could happen for this game. Because without this impressive reveal- and target trailers this game wouldn't have received this huge awareness over the years, respectively couldn't have achieved its final budget.

That's why I can live with this downgrade, especially as a console gamer. This game is so huge, so impressive, this amazing atmosphere and graphics, especially this love of detail and every single sidequest or random event is much better than standard mainquests of "comparable" RPGs.

I admit, I was also a bit upset about CDPR about their communication and marketing tricks, but after hours of spending with this game I just can praise CDPR and wish them to sell millions of it. And honestly speaking, I'm pretty much OK with the same "downgrade" procedure for (hopefully) The Witcher 4, when the outcome is again such a gem.
You do realize this is exactly why games of this nature go through the trouble of the bullshot/downgrade cycle, right?
 

Skyzard

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You don't actually think the old lighting looks better do you? They hadn't even implemented PBR into the game when that screenshot was taken.
I mean...but...how do you not at least see how flat it is in that comparison?

---wait, I thought the new image was second one with lots of sharpening, and the 'old' one was the first one you posted.

...Because I was comparing your second one with an image from the 2013 gameplay trailer.

That first shot is a nice one, some areas can look great in the right light.
 

ufo8mycat

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Surprisingly enough I have used some level of 'Contrast Enhancer' & 'Black Corrector' on my HDTV and it has made a massive difference. Textures aren't flat anymore and things have depth.

It now looks in between the original screenshot above and the below one. .

It now no longer has that 'cartoony' look as the bottom picture, but more of a realistic look.

Nice balance IMO
 

ufo8mycat

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I tried what I could, with the E3VFX mod, to replicate the look (with the sharpness all the way up, as well).



Surprisingly enough I have used some level of 'Contrast Enhancer' & 'Black Corrector' on my HDTV and it has made a massive difference. Textures aren't flat anymore and things have depth.

It now looks in between the original screenshot above and the below one. .

It now no longer has that 'cartoony' look as the bottom picture, but more of a realistic look. Grass/Trees/Buildings etc now look real and have pop

Aesthetically speaking, I don't like the look of the top picture at all. Everything just seems too sharp and gritty.

The way I have it now is very nice and I am happy with it

Nice balance IMO between the realistic look of the top picture and the bottom picture. Pretty much inbetween
 

HeWhoWalks

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I must say, some of you guys post some of the most crisp screenshots! Perhaps it's the advantage of capturing at higher than 1080p? When I say crisp, I don't just mean anti-aliasing, but the overall clarity is fantastic. Blows away the Print Screen and FRAPS shots that I capture.
 

Jonm1010

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Listen I love the game, but try as you might, the downgrade is real. I understand the appeal of defending them but lets drop it alright. It happened, they admitted it, lets accept it.

I am currently sailing on the ocean and not once has the the waves replicated that early trailer.

It is a decent looking game. But unless you have ini file modded and added a bunch of fixes, the game doesnt touch the early footage.
 

BlackNinja

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I must say, some of you guys post some of the most crisp screenshots! Perhaps it's the advantage of capturing at higher than 1080p? When I say crisp, I don't just mean anti-aliasing, but the overall clarity is fantastic. Blows away the Print Screen and FRAPS shots that I capture.
I'm running at 4k and there is just nothing out there that beats it at the moment. I can only think of Ryse @ 4k but that game has none of the lighting/amount of foliage this game has. 4k is where this game rises to the top graphically IMO.
 

Zakalwe

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Listen I love the game, but try as you might, the downgrade is real. I understand the appeal of defending them but lets drop it alright. It happened, they admitted it, lets accept it.

I am currently sailing on the ocean and not once has the the waves replicated that early trailer.

It is a decent looking game. But unless you have ini file modded and added a bunch of fixes, the game doesnt touch the early footage.
"Doesn't touch" is a far stretch.
 

vio

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Didn`t have much time to play the game yet. But this bothers me much more than all the downgrades. Even that water downgrade yeah.



And that is after 5 mins of...exploring. There is no visual indication in the environment that you are going to dead end, until the message. Talking about the first area.
 
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Didn`t have much to play the game yet. But this bothers me much more than all the downgrades. Even that water downgrade yeah.



And that is after 5 mins of...exploring. There is no visual indication in the environment that you are going to dead end, until the message. Talking about the first area.
As you say that's the first area. Do you know what's the first area? The tutorial area. Which is much more smaller than the main area.
 

Zakalwe

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Didn`t have much to play the game yet. But this bothers me much more than all the downgrades. Even that water downgrade yeah.



And that is after 5 mins of...exploring. There is no visual indication in the environment that you are going to dead end, until the message. Talking about the first area.
Tutorial area. The next area is massive.

Also how else should they handle it? There's always going to be a limit to the environment in these games.
 

vio

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Tutorial area. The next area is massive.

Also how else should they handle it? There's always going to be a limit to the environment in these games.
Mountains and oceans... don`t know. Something with the environment.
 

Skyzard

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Some of the boundaries that trigger that message and then bring up the map to teleport are bit messed up though...like it's boxed out at corners in some places and you'll run into that message like 3 times before finding the correct way back if you don't want to tp anywhere.

Not a downgrade as the later areas are really massive and you barely run into that issue, don't think I have yet. Ran into it quite a lot when just exploring OS WO though. Just could be a bit looser with the restrictions imo as it can (needlessly) worry you.
 

pakkit

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Mountains and oceans... don`t know. Something with the environment.
I kind of hate that too. One of the benefits with CDPR's design choice is that, if you keep running towards the expanse, you get taken straight to the fast travel map. This is helpful if you've gotten lost or are far away from a fast travel point, you can simply travel towards the edge of the map. It is definitely the worst at White Orchard though, I specifically remember seeing a bear, actively hunting and exhibiting AI, outside of the player's bounds. So I couldn't hunt him down. :(
 

codhand

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Didn`t have much time to play the game yet. But this bothers me much more than all the downgrades. Even that water downgrade yeah.



And that is after 5 mins of...exploring. There is no visual indication in the environment that you are going to dead end, until the message. Talking about the first area.
how dare they put invisible walls in one of the largest game maps ever created.
 

Chariot

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how dare they put invisible walls in one of the largest game maps ever created.
Not really true, especially not for White Orchard. The first area is indeed small and even all of Witcher isn't that big compared to the really big game maps around. However it's big and better filled than all of those, just not what I would call the "largest".

I am also tourn about the worlds end. On one hand I would wish for visual indicators like actual things that hold Geralt back, on the other hand that would look very artifical and I like the look better, even if I sometimes run right into the end.
 
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