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Wizards of the Coast vs Fantasy Flight

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Megalosaro

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These two companies seem to be competing for the same niche. Which do you feel is better?

To be honest, I think both are pretty good and do things different. I think that Wizards of the Coast is a bit more consumer friendly (but still brutal on your wallet). That said, I think Fantasy Flight has their fingers in more pies. The production quality for both companies is top notch though I'll be honest, I prefer Wizard's art direction.

Betrayal at House on the Hill is some of the most fun you'll have btw. "Make America Disintegrate Again" is the greatest haunt ever.
 
I remember Wizards of the Coast supposedly having awful business practices a few years ago.

But I have been known to play Magic every once in a while
 
BKatastrophe said:
I remember Wizards of the Coast supposedly having awful business practices a few years ago.

But I have been known to play Magic every once in a while
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MtG is certainly an exploitative game... but it could be far worse. It's not nearly as bad as say, Games Workshop.

Say what you will, but they basically made DnD F2P. That's pretty neat IMHO
 
Wizards made D&D 5th Edition, they are solid gold right now

I love their stuff, but getting my gaming group to try a FFG game is almost always like pulling teeth
 
Megalosaro said:
MtG is certainly an exploitative game... but it could be far worse. It's not nearly as bad as say, Games Workshop.

Say what you will, but they basically made DnD F2P. That's pretty neat IMHO
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There have been some really shitty practices in tabletop gaming companies. If I'm not mistaken, the company that did Yu-Gi-Oh! before Konami decided to just do it themselves wasn't exactly a sunshine and roses place either.

Problem is that I can't remember what they did, and top of that it was years ago.
 
Wow haha this is such a nichey topic for outside of the board-game thread.

Do Magic people think of them as being competitive? Because I can say as a board gamer and LCG player who has a ton of Fantasy Flight stuff that I think of them as completely different entities. Magic is such a beast that it's probably as big a hobby as all of hobby board gaming itself (including Fantasy Flight's stuff, which still mostly falls in this category). Exaggerating a bit I'm sure but I just don't see too much overlap. I know FFG is getting into CCGs w/ Destiny, but even then they're more drawing in LCG players and the like (me included) than Magic players, just anecdotally.

I gotta say I'm not a huge fan of some of FFG's business decisions (like upcharging online retailers, or moving to CCGs after they basically attacked them when promoting LCGs) but their designers and art teams are just fantastic in the board-game space. Blood Bowl: Team Manager, Space Hulk: Death Angel, Destiny, Arkham LCG, Netrunner, Elder Sign, Eldritch Horror...FFG games probably make up over 80% of my board gaming now, and that's my main hobby.

I guess going back to the original point I can't really compare them to WOTC too much because there's more slivers of overlap than lots of direct competition. I don't love Magic myself, but I have a ton of respect for the way they've developed that game, including the tournament scene and rules.
 
AstroLad said:
Wow haha this is such a nichey topic for outside of the board-game thread.

Do Magic people think of them as being competitive? Because I can say as a board gamer and LCG player who has a ton of Fantasy Flight stuff that I think of them as completely different entities. Magic is such a beast that it's probably as big a hobby as all of hobby board gaming itself (including Fantasy Flight's stuff, which still mostly falls in this category). Exaggerating a bit I'm sure but I just don't see too much overlap. I know FFG is getting into CCGs w/ Destiny, but even then they're more drawing in LCG players and the like (me included) than Magic players, just anecdotally.

I gotta say I'm not a huge fan of some of FFG's business decisions (like upcharging online retailers, or moving to CCGs after they basically attacked them when promoting LCGs) but their designers and art teams are just fantastic in the board-game space. Blood Bowl: Team Manager, Space Hulk: Death Angel, Destiny, Arkham LCG, Netrunner, Elder Sign, Eldritch Horror...FFG games probably make up over 80% of my board gaming now, and that's my main hobby.

I guess going back to the original point I can't really compare them to WOTC too much because there's more slivers of overlap than lots of direct competition. I don't love Magic myself, but I have a ton of respect for the way they've developed that game, including the tournament scene and rules.
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Man I know people who have played Magic and haven't touched anything else, as far as the more niche tabletop stuff goes.
 
FF knows where I live with their LCG initiative.

It's been an absolute bear trying to buy into Arkham Horror LCG though. It's always sold out.
 
adj_noun said:
FF knows where I live with their LCG initiative.

It's been an absolute bear trying to buy into Arkham Horror LCG though. It's always sold out.
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God it is so good. Has just blown away my expectations and now we have four people in our gaming group who are eagerly awaiting every new release.
 
BKatastrophe said:
Man I know people who have played Magic and haven't touched anything else, as far as the more niche tabletop stuff goes.
Click to expand...

This seems extremely common. The tabletop gaming shop in my area that has by far the best selection of boardgames, tabletop RPGs, and other similar products makes the majority of its cash just on Magic. It's kind of like how some people only play Pokemon vs. many other RPGs that are out there.

AstroLad said:
God it is so good. Has just blown away my expectations and now we have four people in our gaming group who are eagerly awaiting every new release.
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I really do want to at least try the Arkham Horror LCG, but I generally don't find LCGs (or CCGs) to be that appealing with my current tastes. I may stick to Eldritch Horror (and the Arkham Horror boardgame on the blue moon that I can play it).
 
I have to say I've lost some interest in FFG's future content since they've lost the Warhammer 40K license.
 
Barrylocke said:
This seems extremely common. The tabletop gaming shop in my area that has by far the best selection of boardgames, tabletop RPGs, and other similar products makes the majority of its cash just on Magic. It's kind of like how some people only play Pokemon vs. many other RPGs that are out there.
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Game shops for the most part have just grown to cater towards Magic because it's such a great moneymaker. Magic players are also more likely to become part of a game-story community, encouraged by the store with events and the like usually. But you are getting more representation of board games at certain stores, and things like gaming cafes and game groups on Meetup and the like. Just a very different scene.

Barrylocke said:
This seems extremely common. The tabletop gaming shop in my area that has by far the best selection of boardgames, tabletop RPGs, and other similar products makes the majority of its cash just on Magic. It's kind of like how some people only play Pokemon vs. many other RPGs that are out there.


I really do want to at least try the Arkham Horror LCG, but I generally don't find LCGs (or CCGs) to be that appealing with my current tastes. I may stick to Eldritch Horror (and the Arkham Horror boardgame on the blue moon that I can play it).
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Thinking of Arkham as an LCG is a bit confusing I think. I mean...it's not an LCG like Netrunner where you do have to buy new releases every month and keep track of the meta. It's just a fixed game that has mini-expansions every month is how I think of it. We got a solid 20+ hours of play out of the core game alone just trying to get different resolutions and play with different teams.
 
AstroLad said:
God it is so good. Has just blown away my expectations and now we have four people in our gaming group who are eagerly awaiting every new release.
Click to expand...

I got a couple cores and the print on demand packs.

What I have played I love to bits. Daisy's my jam.
 
I'm not a huge fan of either, but I still play some FFG stuff but I can't remember the last time I bought anything by Wizards.
 
The only thing Fantasy Flight that gets played in my area is X-Wing been the top dog, Star Wars Destiny at second (only because it's new) with Netrunner been a distant third. Everything else is dead.

Magic is king no matter where you go. I do like the LCG buisness model as you know what you are getting. We will see if rotation makes Netrunner thrive or die even further.
 
BKatastrophe said:
Man I know people who have played Magic and haven't touched anything else, as far as the more niche tabletop stuff goes.
Click to expand...

"raises hand"

I have alot of friends who think I would be in to alot of traditional games and new board games, but the only thing I play is Magic. And I really have no interest in playing anything else.
 
Card Boy said:
The only thing Fantasy Flight that gets played in my area is X-Wing been the top dog, Star Wars Destiny at second (only because it's new) with Netrunner been a distant third. Everything else is dead.

Magic is king no matter where you go. I do like the LCG buisness model as you know what you are getting. We will see if rotation makes Netrunner thrive or die even further.
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Yeah but those are an incredibly small slice of FFG's overall portfolio. It wouldn't be too unlike me saying man WOTC must be screwed b/c their Magic board game is pretty crap I never see anyone at game night playing it (although even that analogy isn't great b/c FFG's LCGs and CCGs are pretty great, it's just that they will never be even in the same ballpark as Magic, nor are they really intended to be -- and FFG's hundreds of other games absolutely have zero to do with the competitive scene of Magic). Just going to a game store (which is usually 95% a Magic store) and saying hm don't see lots of non-Magic stuff isn't really a very reliable metric b/c board-game people which form the vast majority of FFG's base don't go there, or at least definitely don't hang out there after they've picked up a game. The scenes are very different and I'd venture to say people who play competitive Magic and just peep the activity from their game store really have no idea what hobby board games are really about. It's a lot more about a huge diversity of games and people and constantly amazing new releases, but yeah no single game or even game series even comes close to Magic in terms of sales and the like if we're just comparing on a 1:1 basis. But no one who plays board games or even FFG games mostly just plays one or even five games.
 
The last time I played Magic was...I think when Fallen Empires came out. That's around when I remember it being the hotness at school at any rate.
 
X-Wing alone makes me value FFG more than WotC. Beyond X-Wing you've got Elder Sign, Descent/Imperial Assault, Letters from Whitechapel, Hey! That's My Fish, Blue Moon Legends, and more. They took a big hit IMO losing the GW license but I'm sure they've got plans for where to go from here and they still have a ton of games. The only things WotC has that excite me are Betrayal at House on the Hill and Lords of Waterdeep and they really don't even have much else outside of those two, just A&A and some other holdouts from Avalon Hill.
 
I personally prefer Fantasy Flight.

While Wizards have classics like Magic the Gathering, their biggest hit for me is the latest Dungeons and Dragons edition, but other than that there isn't much appeal to me. Magic costs a lot and I prefer much more the LCGs of FFG.

Fantasy Flight on the other hand have produced some true classics in board and card gaming. Forbidden Stars, Warhammer the Adventure Card Game, Android Netrunner (that I personally think is way better than Magic), Arkham Horror: The Card Game, Twilight Imperium and more. That said, I do think it sucks that they split with Games Workshop, I am a huge fan of Warhammer games and FFG made some incredible ones for the IP. Games Workshop themselves only produce extremely pricey miniature board games that I really don't have much interest in playing.
 
I think Wizards pays their artists sub industry standard both for authors and illustrators.

As a result no one writes for them anymore and artists that could mostly moved on from doing MTG pieces.
 
Are they?

I've never done card games, we have two of the Adventure Game System games and they are top notch. And we've always had DND since Classic, but my group has stuck with 4e rather than 5e. Looking at FFG tpgs they don't seem that appealing to me. Reviews are mixed on the latest SW from them.
 
Fantasy Flight seems to have given up on RPGs and those are the tabletop games I care the most about. So Wizards for me all the way
 
I've been burnt by Fantasy Flight a few too many times to be honest. Their Game of Thrones card game flat out lies on the box - it should not be advertised as a two player game. If you play two player you have to take out significant mechanics of the game, and the decks aren't close to being balanced.

Similarity, whilst I don't blame them for the loss of the warhammer license, I do blame them for releasing Warhammer Quest like they did (and is still being sold at full price). It only comes with one campaign that has limited replayability, and was clearly designed to support multiple small expansions. As they lost the license though, the game really doesn't stand on its own.
 
Well here are the works listed in wikipedia.

Wizards of the Coast
Wizards doesn't offer much in variety, it does have 2 giants called Mtg and DnD.

Fantasy Flight Games
They do have quite a catalog of board games, LCG and miniatures.

I guess it comes down on what you are into, if you want boardgames you go FFG. If you are into CCG then it's WoC.

I proclaim my love to FFG, love boardgames, love the business model of LCG and Android Netrunner is my one true love (fuck Anarchs).
 
WotC doesn't have Pokémon anymore, right?
GoutPatrol said:
"raises hand"

I have alot of friends who think I would be in to alot of traditional games and new board games, but the only thing I play is Magic. And I really have no interest in playing anything else.
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Oh I fully understand. I make no judgements. I was just pointing that to support how truly massive MTG is compared to other TCGs and so on. You do you bruh. I haven't played MTG in awhile. I just play random games at this point. Getting super into one like I did MTG just isn't in me.

You know what's fun, though? The Yo-Kai Watch TCG.
 
hydrophilic attack said:
I like the few FFG boardgames I've tried. Beautiful art.
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I can't say I have a y complaints there.

Wizards Games I've played:

DND 3rd edition
DND 5th Edition
Magic the Gathering

Fantasy Flight games:
Runebound
Descent 2nd edition
Warhammer quest lcg

All are great. FF'S STAR WARS rpg looks great too. But wizards 5e books are glorious
 
I will always adore Wizards of the Coast because they had a store in a mall near my house. I would go there and play Pokemon and Harry Potter. It was the first time I got to know the staff at a store.

But I find Fantasy Flight's offerings a bit more appealing nowadays.
 
I'm anxiously looking forward to what FF does with the Legend of the Five Rings IP. When TSR got rid of it, my heart kind of sank, because I had put so much time into the old card game and even Clan War.

Really though, I think it boils down to this: WotC is owned by Hasbro, which is big-business board gaming and toys. FF is still a game maker/publisher who deals mostly with hobbyists directly. I always see tons of people playing X-Wing or Armada. I gotta give it to FF.
 
This is a bit like comparing apples to a fruit no-one has heard of or cares about.
 
Wizards and FF are not in direct competition.

There's no current FF product that's competing directly with either Magic or D&D, Wizards two bread-n-butter products.

FF moneymakers are Star Wars X-Wing and Armada and The Lord of the Rings LCG. LCGs are not TCGs. And X-Wing/Armada are miniatures games that actually directly compete with Games Workshop.

Which is why Games Workshop and FF have ended their contracts. FF used to make all the Warhammer themed board games but since they have taken a piece of Games Workshop's miniatures pie, the two have been on the outs. GW has instead just started making their own (miniatures) board games.

Wizards biggest competitor is actually Paizo Publishing. They have really no realistic competition with Magic right now. Pokemon, Yu-Gi-Oh, and SW: Destiny combined don't even put a dent in Magic's sales or popularity.

I would say Games Workshop has more competition from Privateer Press... but our store just stopped carrying WarmaHordes because it's dead locally. We sell more Wyrd and Reaper products than Privateer Press now, which is hilarious to me.

Megalosaro said:
MtG is certainly an exploitative game... but it could be far worse. It's not nearly as bad as say, Games Workshop.
Click to expand...

This hasn't really been true for GW since the new CEO and Age of Sigmar release. 8th edition 40k, if the rumors are accurate, is also looking to cut a lot of the bullshit too.
 
Surprised to see this topic outside of the board game thread.

I would never picture FFG and WOTC as rivals. I don't know anyone who sees it that way.

Anyone I know that plays MTG, plays ONLY MTG. That and PC mobas. If they're not talking about some LoL stream, they're talking about their latest cube draft.

WotC is a CCG and D&D company that dabbles in board games occasionally. FFG is a board game and LCG company that dabbles in miniatures and CCG games occasionally.

There's a TON of room for both of them, and plenty more aside from that. Turns out most people into these hobbies have decent disposable incomes and poor impulse control.

Edit: Since we're stuck in community usually, this is a good time to shill for our board gaming community thread!

http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=825268
 
Secret Character said:
I'm anxiously looking forward to what FF does with the Legend of the Five Rings IP. When TSR got rid of it, my heart kind of sank, because I had put so much time into the old card game and even Clan War.

Really though, I think it boils down to this: WotC is owned by Hasbro, which is big-business board gaming and toys. FF is still a game maker/publisher who deals mostly with hobbyists directly. I always see tons of people playing X-Wing or Armada. I gotta give it to FF.
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Well, FFG is owned by Asmodee, their own Hasbro.

WotC revived D&D with 3.0. I am in the apparent minority that LOVED 4e, and 5e is pretty good also. I haven't player MtG in years.

FFG has me hooked with X-Wing, and many of their board games as well. TI3 remains one of my favorite games ever. That said, I have no interest in any of their card games. SW: Destiny was a nope from day 1 for the reasons I stopped playing MtG. That said FFG'S SW RPGs are seriously fun, if mechanically in need of tuning
 
Eldritch Horror got me into boards games late last year. And I've been absolutely enjoying my time much more playing Android Netrunner with friends rather than MtG. So Fantasy Flight for me, atleast.
 
I love X-Wing and it's the only game I can consistently get friends to play.

So my vote is Fantasy Flight.
 
AstroLad said:
Wow haha this is such a nichey topic for outside of the board-game thread.

Do Magic people think of them as being competitive? Because I can say as a board gamer and LCG player who has a ton of Fantasy Flight stuff that I think of them as completely different entities. Magic is such a beast that it's probably as big a hobby as all of hobby board gaming itself (including Fantasy Flight's stuff, which still mostly falls in this category). Exaggerating a bit I'm sure but I just don't see too much overlap. I know FFG is getting into CCGs w/ Destiny, but even then they're more drawing in LCG players and the like (me included) than Magic players, just anecdotally.

I gotta say I'm not a huge fan of some of FFG's business decisions (like upcharging online retailers, or moving to CCGs after they basically attacked them when promoting LCGs) but their designers and art teams are just fantastic in the board-game space. Blood Bowl: Team Manager, Space Hulk: Death Angel, Destiny, Arkham LCG, Netrunner, Elder Sign, Eldritch Horror...FFG games probably make up over 80% of my board gaming now, and that's my main hobby.

I guess going back to the original point I can't really compare them to WOTC too much because there's more slivers of overlap than lots of direct competition. I don't love Magic myself, but I have a ton of respect for the way they've developed that game, including the tournament scene and rules.
Click to expand...

Gotta say I agree with this. Most of the stuff I buy is FFG. This includes: X-Wing, Armada, Imperial Assault, Descent, Arkham Horror LCG, Eldritch Horror, Elder Sign, Netrunner, A Game of Thrones LCG 2nd Edition, Star Wars LCG, Lord of the Rings LCG, their Star Wars RPG books (all three series), and Mansions of Madness. I've bought some Star Wars Destiny and enjoy the game.

I also play Magic, so buy that stuff as well. I'd likely play D&D, but only have cycles for one RPG and Star Wars wins out.

So, I don't really side with one over the other and instead buy both and would buy D&D if I felt I'd ever play it.
 
I gotta say FFG, Wizards will always have DnD which is a complete juggernaut of a game that changed the hobby forever, and I'll give them credit for that (and 5e is looking real solid). But looking at game diversity, average game quality and production quality then FFG is just that five steps up the ladder.
 
I feel they each do specific things better. I've only been able to compare their star wars stuff though. I prefer Wizards Star Wars RPG to FFG. I played the FFG game only once and found it a bit boring. The mechanics seemed interesting though, and I wouldn't mind trying it again. I might be biased to the D20 system more though, because that's what I know.
With the miniatures I would say FFG does it better.
 
Palmer_v1 said:
Surprised to see this topic outside of the board game thread.

I would never picture FFG and WOTC as rivals. I don't know anyone who sees it that way.
Click to expand...

Someone said Paizo is more of compeitor. I could see it. But.. is that true? Paizo just has a th finder and accessories. And wizards is killing it with 5e.
Palmer_v1 said:
Anyone I know that plays MTG, plays ONLY MTG. That and PC mobas. If they're not talking about some LoL stream, they're talking about their latest cube draft.
Click to expand...

My gaming group meets weekly for descent and biweekly for dnd. Lately Descent has become MtG night.

I am the dm, and my friend is the overloRd for descent. We are the only video gamers

Palmer_v1 said:
WotC is a CCG and D&D company that dabbles in board games occasionally. FFG is a board game and LCG company that dabbles in miniatures and CCG games occasionally.
Click to expand...


Don't agree entirely about ff. Their biggest game is the x wings mini game

Palmer_v1 said:
There's a TON of room for both of them, and plenty more aside from that. Turns out most people into these hobbies have decent disposable incomes and poor impulse control
Click to expand...

Too true. I've spent too much on this shit lol.
 
Fantasy Flight isn't even in the same wheelhouse as Wizards of the Coast in terms of revenue and mindshare, are they? Like... I can't think of a supppppper popular Fantasy Flight title that is on Magic's level in sheer population/playing base.

I like Netrunner, but Fantasy Flight's been mismanaging it a bit. Granted, Wizard's does the same with Magic but not as monumentally fucked up as Fantasy Flight has (WHEN THE FUCK WILL ROTATION AND BAN LISTS HIT!?)
 
FFG has trouble meeting their demands for some reason. They play too much on the safe side regarding numbers.
As a former manager of a brick and morter game store, I appreciate their support for us as online sales are really hard to compete with. Especially regarding CoolStuffInc, which most publishers absolutely despise.
 
Basically WoC has put up a shit load of free content online for free. You can download the basic rules off their website.

Of course having the core rule booksis better... but you can easily play the game without spending a dime
 
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