• Hey, guest user. Hope you're enjoying NeoGAF! Have you considered registering for an account? Come join us and add your take to the daily discourse.
  • Hey Guest. Check out the NeoGAF 2.2 Update Thread for details on our new Giphy integration and other new features.

Wkd BO 12•23-25•16 - bomba Ass, Passengers, Sing as audiences continue to go Rogue

Status
Not open for further replies.

BronsonLee

Member
Oct 30, 2011
50,961
2
0
CUT THE CHECK

180 million on Tarzan still blows my mind. If I'm reading those charts correctly, it was bad, but it wasn't too bad. Was it a runaway budget or was that actually planned from the start?

I always got the impression that was Warner giving Yates play money for getting Potter to the finish line
 

kswiston

Member
Mar 25, 2005
35,137
2
0
Canada
It looks like Hacksaw Ridge will finish clase to $50M in China. It had great legs there.

The Great Wall is at $127M, heading for $140-150M.
 

DeathyBoy

Banned
Jun 17, 2014
11,199
1
0
CUT THE CHECK



I always got the impression that was Warner giving Yates play money for getting Potter to the finish line

Yates is a beast. Dude had two blockbusters out this year. Guy is a machine. DC should've thrown him the DCEU directorial reigns.

His version of Tarzan was a beast.
 

vinnygambini

Why are strippers at the U.N. bad when they're great at strip clubs???
Aug 7, 2013
8,549
0
0
Vinny.


I see you Phonciple!
 

Ithil

Member
Apr 19, 2011
41,099
1
0
Captain America: Civil War - $250 million
Finding Dory - $200 million
Zootopia - $150 million
The Jungle Book - $175 million

The Secret Life of Pets - $75 million
Batman v Superman: Dawn of Justice - $250 million
Deadpool - $58 million
Fantastic Beasts and Where to Find Them - $180 million
Suicide Squad - $800 million
$175 million
Doctor Strange - $165 million


Total - $1.5 billion for the top 10, not counting marketing. When R1 passes Strange, its budget is only $25 million more so it doesn't really affect the total.

Gotta spend money to make money.
 

kswiston

Member
Mar 25, 2005
35,137
2
0
Canada
Looks like around $18.5M for Rogue One and $16M for Sing on Wednesday.


So about $58M on the Tues-Thurs for Rogue One. It should enter the weekend a bit over $375M.
 
Jan 28, 2007
12,340
0
910
Thanks for all the work, kwinston.

Because why not? Domestic grosses and reported production budgets for every film released in at least 1500 theatres at its peak this year (plus Manchester and La La Land). Totals and averages are at the bottom.


Code:
	Title					Distributor	DOM Total	Production Budget (million USD)
1	Finding Dory				BV		$486,295,561 	200
2	Captain America: Civil War		BV		$408,084,349 	250
3	The Secret Life of Pets			Uni.		$368,341,700 	75
4	The Jungle Book (2016)			BV		$364,001,123 	175
5	Deadpool				Fox		$363,070,709 	58
6	Zootopia				BV		$341,268,248 	150
7	Rogue One: A Star Wars Story		BV		$340,634,691 	200
8	Batman v Superman: Dawn of Justice	WB		$330,360,194 	250
9	Suicide Squad				WB		$325,100,054 	175
10	Doctor Strange				BV		$228,977,802 	165
11	Fantastic Beasts			WB		$217,345,251 	180
12	Moana					BV		$190,431,447 	150
13	Jason Bourne				Uni.		$162,192,920 	120
14	Star Trek Beyond			Par.		$158,848,340 	185
15	X-Men: Apocalypse			Fox		$155,442,489 	178
16	Trolls					Fox		$149,156,983 	125
17	Kung Fu Panda 3				Fox		$143,528,619 	145
18	Ghostbusters (2016)			Sony		$128,350,574 	144
19	Central Intelligence			WB (NL)		$127,440,871 	50
20	The Legend of Tarzan			WB		$126,643,061 	180
21	Sully					WB		$124,864,239 	60
22	Bad Moms				STX		$113,257,297 	20
23	The Angry Birds Movie			Sony		$107,509,366 	73
24	Independence Day: Resurgence		Fox		$103,144,286 	165
25	The Conjuring 2				WB (NL)		$102,470,008 	40
26	Sausage Party				Sony		$97,670,358 	19
27	The Magnificent Seven (2016)		Sony		$93,395,132 	90
28	Sing					Uni.		$93,059,795 	75
29	Ride Along 2				Uni.		$90,862,685 	40
30	Arrival					Par.		$90,169,391 	47
31	Don't Breathe				SGem		$89,217,875 	10
32	Miss Peregrine's Home			Fox		$86,850,636 	110
33	The Accountant				WB		$85,405,443 	44
34	Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles 2		Par.		$82,051,601 	135
35	The Purge: Election Year		Uni.		$79,042,440 	10
36	Alice Through the Looking Glass		BV		$77,041,381 	170
37	Pete's Dragon (2016)			BV		$76,233,151 	65
38	The Girl on the Train (2016)		Uni.		$75,347,390 	45
39	Boo! A Madea Halloween			LGF		$73,206,343 	20
40	10 Cloverfield Lane			Par.		$72,082,998 	15
41	Storks					WB		$72,025,173 	70
42	Lights Out				WB (NL)		$67,268,835 	5
43	The Divergent Series: Allegiant		LG/S		$66,184,051 	110
44	Now You See Me 2			LG/S		$65,075,540 	90
45	Ice Age: Collision Course		Fox		$64,063,008 	105
46	Hacksaw Ridge				LGF		$63,986,023 	40
47	The Boss				Uni.		$63,077,560 	29
48	London Has Fallen			Focus		$62,524,260 	60
49	Miracles from Heaven			TriS		$61,705,123 	13
50	Deepwater Horizon			LG/S		$61,433,527 	110
51	My Big Fat Greek Wedding 2		Uni.		$59,689,605 	18
52	Jack Reacher: Never Go Back		Par.		$58,451,758 	60
53	Me Before You				WB (NL)		$56,245,075 	20
54	The BFG					BV		$55,483,770 	140
55	Neighbors 2: Sorority Rising		Uni.		$55,340,730 	35
56	The Shallows				Sony		$55,124,043 	17
57	Barbershop: The Next Cut		WB (NL)		$54,030,051 	20
58	13 Hours				Par.		$52,853,219 	50
59	Kubo and the Two Strings		Focus		$48,023,088 	60
60	The Huntsman: Winter's War		Uni.		$48,003,015 	115
61	Warcraft				Uni.		$47,225,655 	160
62	How to Be Single			WB (NL)		$46,843,513 	38
63	Mike and Dave Need Wedding Dates	Fox		$46,009,673 	33
64	Office Christmas Party			Par.		$45,395,644 	45
65	War Dogs				WB		$43,034,523 	40
66	Almost Christmas			Uni.		$41,824,080 	17
67	Money Monster				TriS		$41,012,075 	27
68	Allied					Par.		$39,363,185 	85
69	Nerve					LGF		$38,583,626 	20
70	Risen					Sony		$36,880,033 	20
71	The Nice Guys				WB		$36,261,763 	50
72	Passengers (2016)			Sony		$35,910,201 	110
73	The Boy (2016)				STX		$35,819,556 	10
74	Dirty Grandpa				LGF		$35,593,113 	12
75	Ouija: Origin of Evil			Uni.		$34,992,970 	9
76	The 5th Wave				Sony		$34,912,982 	38
77	Inferno					Sony		$34,107,347 	75
78	Mother's Day				ORF		$32,492,859 	25
79	Gods of Egypt				LG/S		$31,153,464 	140
80	Hail, Caesar!				Uni.		$30,080,225 	22
81	When the Bough Breaks			SGem		$29,747,603 	10
82	Zoolander 2				Par.		$28,848,693 	50
83	The Finest Hours			BV		$27,569,558 	80
84	Florence Foster Jenkins			Par.		$27,383,770 	29
85	Hell or High Water			LGF		$27,007,844 	12
86	The Forest				Focus		$26,594,261 	10
87	Ben-Hur (2016)				Par.		$26,410,477 	100
88	Assassin's Creed			Fox		$25,838,767 	125
89	The Witch				A24		$25,138,705 	3
90	Bridget Jones's Baby			Uni.		$24,139,805 	35
91	Kevin Hart: What Now?			Uni.		$23,574,605 	10
92	Whiskey Tango Foxtrot			Par.		$23,083,334 	35
93	Manchester by the Sea			RAtt.		$21,978,255 	9
94	Snowden					ORF		$21,587,519 	40
95	Mechanic: Resurrection			LG/S		$21,218,403 	40
96	Free State of Jones			STX		$20,810,036 	50
97	Blair Witch				LGF		$20,777,061 	5
98	God's Not Dead 2			PFR		$20,774,575 	5
99	Keanu					WB (NL)		$20,591,853 	15
100	Middle School: Worst Years of My Life	LGF		$20,007,149 	9
	
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------						
						TOTAL		$9.789B		$7.907B
						AVERAGE		$72M		$58M

585 additional films released in 1 to 1499 venues accounted for another $419M combined. A very small handful of these (a dozen maybe? will receive wide releases next year)

The remaining $900M+ came from 2015 films (over $460M from The Force Awakens and The Revenant alone).

That lone Deadpool in the top as double digit, not tripple digit, yaaay. The other two being Pets and Bad Moms, both movies where you think "how did it do well?" but that's what that is.

Interestingly, the "flops" start at number 14 with Star Trek Beyond and X-men Apocalypse doing less domestic than their budget, which would mean that if both were multiplied by two, to account for worldwide gross and marketing, respectively, you would come up with a loss. Or at least that's probably how studio execs would read that.
As far as I can tell from looking at randomly selected BO's, unless your movie really bombs, the domestic versus foreign percentage tends to be about 50-50. Sadly, that's exactly what ST:B shows: 46% domestic, 54% foreign, at a total gross of 343 million. So... *ahem*... It's dead, Jim.
(It's only decent one, it's well written, and I fucking hate audiences now. Either that, or who the fuck made the trailers. Same guy as Ghostbusters, right? Please tell me it's the same guy)
But interestingly, X-Men Apocalypse did poorly domestic (25% of ww gross, less than its budget), but got the rest (75%) from foreign, and a total 544 gross on a 178 budget will continue to live. Thank you, China, for that 120 million difference on foreign. Beyond got 65 there btw, but somehow it wasn't saved. Maybe a release window thing? Apocalypse had a better trailer with the post-credits bit of Future Past though. And its own trailer. But it's a waaay worse movie, as a fan of both.
(and as a sidenote, at position 34, TMNT 2 did much less than its budget domestic, but had a 3x ww gross, coming out at 245 on a 135 budget. Seems the Turtles are dead too then. Finally! The Shredder is victorious! Tonight we dine on Turtles soup, Krang! )

Also, highest multiplier on domestic is not Don't Breathe at 9 times, but Lights Out at 12.5 times its budget.
The VVitch is the lowest budget (that proud lonely 3 million on there), and is "only" 7 times multiplied towards its domestic gross. Probably the only one that actually deserves it in terms of movie-making though.

And lastly, we were ALL wrong on the biggest bomb of the year. Yes, domestically it's Gods of Egypt. I would say "called it!" ... but I didn't, because by then the movie had already come out, so that doesn't count. It was just unlikely to be 'improved on' by anything else from then on.. until the hero, the magnificent, the legendary BEN HUR.
At a whopping 100 million budget it made, straight from boxofficemojo:
Code:
 Domestic: 	 $26,410,477 	   28.1%
+ Foreign: 	 $67,650,834 	   71.9%
= Worldwide: 	 $94,061,311

versus Gods of Egypt (140 budget):
Code:
Total Lifetime Grosses
Domestic: 	 $31,153,464 	   20.7%
+ Foreign: 	 $119,527,400 	   79.3%
= Worldwide: 	 $150,680,864

And it's SAFE! Ben-Hur, you're out!
(well, they're both out, but Hurl didn't even make the budget back)
 

Bobby Roberts

Banned
Feb 13, 2012
48,417
1
0
43
Portland, OR
geekremixed.com
Sausage Party and Lights Out look to be the two films w/ the most ROI. The food fucking cost 20mil & made about 100, Blind Corporal Badass from Avatar cost 5, made about 70.

Cloverfield Lane made a really good showing for itself too. There's a lot of stuff I haven't gotten to see yet this year, but as of right now, that's still in my top 10.
 
Jan 28, 2007
12,340
0
910
Sausage Party and Lights Out look to be the two films w/ the most ROI. The food fucking cost 20mil & made about 100, Blind Corporal Badass from Avatar cost 5, made about 70.

Cloverfield Lane made a really good showing for itself too. There's a lot of stuff I haven't gotten to see yet this year, but as of right now, that's still in my top 10.

Sausage Party? That one barely even registered to me. It's 140 ww on 19 budget, so 7 times, but heavily dominated by domestic gross (66% of ww total).
It's the definition of a movie that should have bombed, but somehow didn't.
But yeah, outside of horror, it's probably the highest one... in both ways of being high. Uurgh.
edit: actually, the domestic multiplier on Bad Moms is 5.5, so that's still better. Similar domestic dominance of 63% of gross though. 180 on 20, so 9 times on ww total.

edit 2: which... is higher than the VVitch... so it's either 'sleazy' horror or the "high as a kite" audience. Damn, now I understand why Hollywood thinks audiences must be fucking dumb.

As a addition to 'biggest bomb', I didn't count Passengers and Assassin's Creed yet, since those are just released. It wouldn't make much sense to count them on 2016 when they've only got two weeks on it (well, ten days actually).
If those don't improve though, Ben Hur may yet lose the price anyway.
 

Schlorgan

Member
Mar 16, 2016
5,344
0
350
Salt Lake City, UT
I will again lament Star Trek doing so poorly. Like SS, it had a rushed development after Orci was taken off (Lin took over six weeks before shooting started and they didn't have a script yet) but it ended up being one of my favorite movies of the last several years and (in my opinion) one of the best Star Trek movies.

Lin and Pegg seem to understand and care about Star Trek and seem to work really well together so I'd love to see them given another shot at the franchise. That or give them Mass Effect.
 

gamz

Member
Nov 11, 2015
13,664
5
370
Sausage Party and Lights Out look to be the two films w/ the most ROI. The food fucking cost 20mil & made about 100, Blind Corporal Badass from Avatar cost 5, made about 70.

Cloverfield Lane made a really good showing for itself too. There's a lot of stuff I haven't gotten to see yet this year, but as of right now, that's still in my top 10.


What about Don't Breathe?
 

Schlorgan

Member
Mar 16, 2016
5,344
0
350
Salt Lake City, UT
Star Trek Beyond is damn good. A great 50th anniversary present to the series. And almost nobody gave a fuck.

People'd rather complain about the Beastie Boys, I guess. I dunno.

People would rather argue about the quality of Into Darkness and post their rankings of the Star Trek movies in the review thread than go see the movie. xD

They'd also rather go see Suicide Squad and defend that movie because #supportDCfilms.
 

bonesmccoy

Banned
Mar 1, 2009
14,115
0
0
I like Pratt and Lawrence, but passed on Passengers because I thought it was a lifeboat crisis story. Turns out it's something worse! Fascinating.

Fassbender is another super easy actor to like yet probably not enough of a draw to save AssCreed from being what it was genetically pre-destined to be: a super stupid action movie.
 
Jan 28, 2007
12,340
0
910
I will again lament Star Trek doing so poorly. Like SS, it had a rushed development after Orci was taken off (Lin took over six weeks before shooting started and they didn't have a script yet) but it ended up being one of my favorite movies of the last several years and (in my opinion) one of the best Star Trek movies.

Lin and Pegg seem to understand and care about Star Trek and seem to work really well together so I'd love to see them given another shot at the franchise. That or give them Mass Effect.

If you haven't seen Paul (2011-ish) yet, you probably should based on it having Pegg do his fan thing. He is probably the only actual fan to get to write a movie in a franchise he is a fan of. I don't know about Lin, but Pegg is a massive fan (and nerd) that was just what the doctor ordered. Except apparently, the patient had already died by the hands of *reference not found*.

I don't think Mass Effect should ever be made into a film btw, because much of its story is contextual based on the index, where most of the 'game' is basically just listening to all the backstories. Fucking love me some planet with a backstory. Even Pluto.

I like Pratt and Lawrence, but passed on Passengers because I thought it was a lifeboat crisis story. Turns out it's something worse! Fascinating.

Fassbender is another super easy actor to like yet probably not enough of a draw to save AssCreed from being what it was genetically pre-destined to be: a super stupid action movie.

It's probably going to do okay anyway, if we assume that a 25 million opening weekend will result in 'good for par' on domestic and foreign being equal. I'm going to guess a 150 ww gross on a 125 budget. It's currently at 40 ww, so that's probably low-balling it.
Also, it's at least trying 'something'. And it may also still benefit from the void that is early January. By contrast, Passengers started higher at 35, but will likely drop like a rock now that people have seen it and the romantic season of the holidays is ending.
 

Bobby Roberts

Banned
Feb 13, 2012
48,417
1
0
43
Portland, OR
geekremixed.com
Maybe it was


...you've earned it.

I don't know about Lin, but Pegg is a massive fan (and nerd) that was just what the doctor ordered.

Nah, nah nah. This is the wrong takeaway, I think, because it puts priority on fandom over talent. It also completely cuts out Doug Jung, who co-wrote the fuckin' thing.

Yes, Lin & Pegg were fans. Fandom doesn't make good movies, though. It's never been the primary ingredient in what makes a good filmmaker, and the narrative that's come out (not surprisingly, as fandom starts to inherit the stuff it was fans of as children) supporting that read is limiting and damaging.
 

Schlorgan

Member
Mar 16, 2016
5,344
0
350
Salt Lake City, UT
I don't think Mass Effect should ever be made into a film btw, because much of its story is contextual based on the index, where most of the 'game' is basically just listening to all the backstories. Fucking love me some planet with a backstory. Even Pluto.

I was mostly just thinking visually. Some really Mass Effect-like stuff in Beyond. I also like the way they handled aliens in that movie, and I think Lin and his preference for doing practical stuff wherever he can would be great. It'll never happen though.
 

numble

Member
Apr 22, 2007
28,682
0
0
If you haven't seen Paul (2011-ish) yet, you probably should based on it having Pegg do his fan thing. He is probably the only actual fan to get to write a movie in a franchise he is a fan of. I don't know about Lin, but Pegg is a massive fan (and nerd) that was just what the doctor ordered. Except apparently, the patient had already died by the hands of *reference not found*.

I don't think Mass Effect should ever be made into a film btw, because much of its story is contextual based on the index, where most of the 'game' is basically just listening to all the backstories. Fucking love me some planet with a backstory. Even Pluto.
I would wager many writers in franchises are a fan of the franchise they are writing in. As a quick example, there is lots of evidence that Gary Whitta is an actual fan of Star Wars.
 

Animator

Member
Jun 9, 2009
6,626
0
0
Sausage Party and Lights Out look to be the two films w/ the most ROI. The food fucking cost 20mil & made about 100, Blind Corporal Badass from Avatar cost 5, made about 70.

Cloverfield Lane made a really good showing for itself too. There's a lot of stuff I haven't gotten to see yet this year, but as of right now, that's still in my top 10.

Sausage party cost many times that claimed 19 mil. I know people who saw the numbers.
 
Jan 28, 2007
12,340
0
910
Nah, nah nah. This is the wrong takeaway, I think, because it puts priority on fandom over talent. It also completely cuts out Doug Jung, who co-wrote the fuckin' thing.

Yes, Lin & Pegg were fans. Fandom doesn't make good movies, though. It's never been the primary ingredient in what makes a good filmmaker, and the narrative that's come out (not surprisingly, as fandom starts to inherit the stuff it was fans of as children) supporting that read is limiting and damaging.

I would wager many writers in franchises are a fan of the franchise they are writing in. As a quick example, there is lots of evidence that Gary Whitta is an actual fan of Star Wars.

Let me rephrase what I meant: fan that actually cares (everyone will call themselves 'a fan' in interviews) and has the talent. Pegg has consistently written great scripts and while I mean no offense to a co-writer, I can tell whose voice is writing what. Beyond was definitely a Pegg script when it comes to the 'actual trekkie stuff''. I can't evaluate the other writer though, since I don't know his voice. And Pegg is top billed, with him second. Aside from that, his imdb seems to more that of a producer whereas Pegg has been writing "fan minded, but intricate" scripts with the cornetto movies, Paul, and his TV shows.

I didn't think I would have to say that, since I thought that was obvious. And ehm, if it was written by a bad writer, we wouldn't be having this conversation anyway. I know there's no straight line from script to movie, but a movie still represents the best of a writer's intuitions during the rewriting, even if that's literally just before shooting it. In fact, that is exactly where you can tell good writers from bad ones.
Orci & Kurzmann stand out like a sore spot in any movie, because they haven't even gotten to basic mediocrity yet, whereas even an average script writer could probably connect dots in a mildly more holistic or engaging way.

I don't know where to rank Whitta in that exactly, but A) he was a massive fan when he posted here and B) Book of Ely showed a good amount of skill. I know that sounds silly coming from 'guy on the internet who doesn't write scripts', but if you know how to analyze a story or plot, you know the difference between someone who has it, and someone who doesn't. Not sure how much, if much at all, survived from his draft into Rogue One though. He's still credited, so the basic structure should be at least basically the same (otherwise there's no billing required), but I'm going to wager he would have retained some more 'A New Hope' style character interactions, which may actually explain the tonal shift that happens during the movie. But that's not a discussion for this thread.
 

Bobby Roberts

Banned
Feb 13, 2012
48,417
1
0
43
Portland, OR
geekremixed.com
Pegg has consistently written great scripts and while I mean no offense to a co-writer, I can tell whose voice is writing what.

I bet you really can't, man. I've made that same mistake in the past. One of the biggest, dumbest games I've seen played in film is watching people authoritatively state what they knew was Spielberg, and what was Kubrick, in A.I., for example. They wrote that script together, and in a hurry, and while it might seem like it's easy to pluck out specific notes from the melody they wrote and say "that was obviously this maestro!" it's almost never that easy.

Valuing fandom anywhere near ability is a bad call. It typically only serves to reinforce/self-congratulate ones own fandom by proxy. "He's a fan, and he did good. I'm a fan. His victory is a victory for all fans. Hooray for fans."
 

Hyun Sai

Member
Jan 9, 2012
7,835
1
0
Star Trek Beyond was just not very good. The worst of the three by far. The movie was empty, no depths whatsoever, more cliches than ever. I didn't expect much of F&F director, but Simon Pegg surprised me in a bad way.
 

andythinkpad

Member
Apr 21, 2015
7,782
6
495
I just realized Ubisoft movies are where Oscar nominated actors go to die.

Can we get Benedict Cumberbatch for the Farcry movie?
 

Schlorgan

Member
Mar 16, 2016
5,344
0
350
Salt Lake City, UT
I bet you really can't, man. I've made that same mistake in the past. One of the biggest, dumbest games I've seen played in film is watching people authoritatively state what they knew was Spielberg, and what was Kubrick, in A.I., for example. They wrote that script together, and in a hurry, and while it might seem like it's easy to pluck out specific notes from the melody they wrote and say "that was obviously this maestro!" it's almost never that easy.

Valuing fandom anywhere near ability is a bad call. It typically only serves to reinforce/self-congratulate ones own fandom by proxy. "He's a fan, and he did good. I'm a fan. His victory is a victory for all fans. Hooray for fans."

So, Warcraft?
 

kswiston

Member
Mar 25, 2005
35,137
2
0
Canada
Passengers will make at least $80M domestic, even if it drops off pretty quickly after the holidays. It won't be the hit Sony was hoping for, but it's far from bomb of the year contention.
 

Cheebo

Banned
Sep 8, 2011
16,870
22
0
I love you Bobby for defending Star Trek Beyond. That movie felt more like an episode of Star Trek (in a GOOD way unlike Insurrection which felt like a TNG episode, a very very bad TNG episode) than any film the franchise has ever done before. I am kind of disappointed we are probably extremely unlikely to ever get a fourth film with this crew. Pine and co deserve one more go.
 

Schlorgan

Member
Mar 16, 2016
5,344
0
350
Salt Lake City, UT
I love you Bobby for defending Star Trek Beyond. That movie felt more like an episode of Star Trek (in a GOOD way unlike Insurrection which felt like a TNG episode, a very very bad TNG episode) than any film the franchise has ever done before. I am kind of disappointed we are probably extremely unlikely to ever get a fourth film with this crew. Pine and co deserve one more go.

If only the Star Trek Beyond Defense Force was as large as the DCEU Defense Force, then maybe we could get somewhere.

therearedozensofus.gif
 

Poor GRIMES

Banned
Nov 17, 2016
2,524
0
0
I think it might have been a mistake to releasr Moana so close to Star Wars. Disney literally ate themselves there lol
 

broncobuster

Banned
Apr 19, 2014
12,795
3
0
Star Trek Beyond is damn good. A great 50th anniversary present to the series. And almost nobody gave a fuck.

People'd rather complain about the Beastie Boys, I guess. I dunno.

Part of me wonders if GOTG and Star Wars ultimately muddied Star Trek's place among space adventure blockbusters.
 
Jan 28, 2007
12,340
0
910
Okay, so we're getting really off-track here, so to clarify the original reason for bringing up Star Trek Beyond was its surprisingly subpar Box Office performance wordwide when it did slightly better than X-Men Apocalypse domestically, but both had a domestic BO that was below their averaged between them 180 million budget. (185 and 178 respectively). One died (ST:B), the other lives (X-Men), whereas critical reception (that RT score we all value so much) did the opposite. Beyond has an RT of 84% and Apocalypse has the opposite of 48%. That's what matters as far as the numbers go, and what we think those mean.

I bet you really can't, man. I've made that same mistake in the past. One of the biggest, dumbest games I've seen played in film is watching people authoritatively state what they knew was Spielberg, and what was Kubrick, in A.I., for example. They wrote that script together, and in a hurry, and while it might seem like it's easy to pluck out specific notes from the melody they wrote and say "that was obviously this maestro!" it's almost never that easy.

Valuing fandom anywhere near ability is a bad call. It typically only serves to reinforce/self-congratulate ones own fandom by proxy. "He's a fan, and he did good. I'm a fan. His victory is a victory for all fans. Hooray for fans."

I feel that we're having two separate debates here. I started this poorly by pointing to 'fan' as a positive quality 'just cause', but that's really not what I meant. You're referring to external fandom, I'm referring to internal usage of fan aspects. That is: knowing the rules of the framework of a certain franchise. Which in these cases is valid, because they are part of larger series and frameworks (it's stilly with a singular work like A.I. because you can't separate anything from anything in a meaningful manner). Pegg has previously demonstrated to have skill in separate unrelated work and know those rules (see Paul, 2011), as has Whitta in gaf discussions (and Book of Eli, which is more important). By contrast, Orci and Kurzmann couldn't care less about internal rules, or characters, or motivation, or good dialogue... and so on, and they couldn't write them if you forced them to. Internal writing quality is really consistent throughout various media people work in, because the limit is their own mind, so if talent was there, it would have shown up.
"is this any good?" is not a question a fanfiction will ask itself. But a (good) writer does. And at that level, having pre-existing knowledge about internal rules of a framework can be a good thing. That was what I was talking about with 'having a fan is a good thing'.
(and I realize using 'voice' further complicates things because you're thinking movies, I'm thinking writing)

What you're referring to is the external fandom, myself included, believing that having fans around of any kind is inherently a good thing. I certainly do not believe that. I'm well aware of what fanfiction sounds like, and that's what Into Darkness was already. And frankly, what a lot of Abrams output sounds like to me and why I get nothing from his movies. "now you have to care because here's that thing you expected!" doesn't work for me. It shouldn't work on anyone, but as soon as we switch from Star Trek to Star Wars, that goes out the window.

The boxoffices for those franchises couldn't be further apart either. If anything, Beyond was a crushing defeat for the idea that old-school Star Trek can be brought back to mingle with the new. The audience isn't there, apparently. Maybe one or the other, but not both at the same time.

But to come back to number crunching, we have to wonder what that means towards the larger brand, because ultimately in this day and age, that's the only thing a company will care about, because brand power predicts sales (nowadays anyway). The delays on the TV show are worrying in that regard, and I'm starting to suspect we may have to wait a few years for Universal to try again.



By contrast, we're probably getting another Suicide Squad as quickly as humanly possible. :(

edit: and yes, I am aware of my burning desire to get that last word. I honestly can't help myself. I'll start responding with "Fushta!" if that's more convenient.
 

EGM1966

Member
Aug 5, 2011
10,351
0
0
UK
I will again lament Star Trek doing so poorly. Like SS, it had a rushed development after Orci was taken off (Lin took over six weeks before shooting started and they didn't have a script yet) but it ended up being one of my favorite movies of the last several years and (in my opinion) one of the best Star Trek movies.

Lin and Pegg seem to understand and care about Star Trek and seem to work really well together so I'd love to see them given another shot at the franchise. That or give them Mass Effect.
It was pretty damn good overall (although it did have some flaws too). Coming after Into Darkness (which I believe was perceived as bad overall from market perspective) and with a dreadful first trailer I feel it just didn't have much net rest at all. For fans of franchise the early perception was it was going to be shit and for others it just looked generic and sub-par vs other blockbusters so why go and see it?

It really, really needed a very good PR/marketing campaign which it didn't get and with a crowded summer the decent reviews/WoM couldn't turn the tide. It just looked like another "Enterprise gets destroyed" entry with vehicle action because Lin going by R.

It did waste Elba and it did go too action apeshit in closing third but there was a lot to like overall and some nice dialogue/character work.

The cast has always been good but they never got the tone/script/plot to align in any of the three films and I think public just drifted away disinterested.
 

kswiston

Member
Mar 25, 2005
35,137
2
0
Canada
You always come into these threads at the right time.

Hope you're enjoying your Christmas vacation.

Thanks. I am actually about to head on 5 hour road trip to the inlaws. It was supposed to be tomorrow morning, but tomorrow is a blizzard... Yay Canadian winter!

$654M WW for Rogue One after Wednesday. Over $800M after this Sunday seems likely with China still to release.
 

MrPink93485

Member
May 20, 2009
3,321
0
0
Presales in China last I read aren't terribly strong. The initial comparison was Star Trek Beyond which did a bit under 70 million there. Still a week left however and things can change fairly quickly in the days leading up to release.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.