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Wolfenstein: Why Did Bethesda Forsake It?

tsumake

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I’m currently playing through Raven’s Wolfenstein and quite enjoying it. I played it around launch but initially found the hub map and collect-a-thon aspect annoying, but after a decade of games designed around collecting meaningless crap, this is quaint in comparison. The hub map isn’t that large and rummaging around looking for gold and intel isn’t as much of a pain as I thought it was. The gunplay is tight snd the crystal mechanics are fun. I thought the upgrade mechanics were annoying in ‘09, but now every game under the sun has you upgrade stuff so again it’s quaint in comparison. The voice acting is Texas awful but it’s almost amusing to hear the bad German accents. The story is pulpy but not self-aware. Overall, in terms of an arbitrary rating I’d say it’s a sold 7-8 game so far.

Why did Bethesda memory hole it? Isn’t The New Order a direct sequel to it?
 

Dinky

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Don't know. I just started New Order for the 1st time, and so far the game is amazing. Reading through reviews it's a damn shame the series took a nose dive afterwards. I'd say either has the series to a new team or back to it's roots.
Not sure what nosedive you referring to, New Colossus is at 87% on Metacritic and is the second highest rated game in franchise, a singular point behind RTCW. User reviews are lower yes, but I can't take them too seriously when there are people who give games a score of zero.
 
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Kuranghi

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Don't know. I just started New Order for the 1st time, and so far the game is amazing. Reading through reviews it's a damn shame the series took a nose dive afterwards. I'd say either has the series to a new team or back to it's roots.

Make sure you explore the hub well between missions if you want all the best character moments/lore, thats a not-substantial part of what makes that game great imo. Explore the hub when you get new gear as well.

Its still worth playing The Old Blood afterwards, its very linear and more overt occult stuff than TNO but very fun imo. Wolfenstein New Colossus is still a really fun game, but I found the story cutscenes very hit and miss compared to how much I enjoyed TNO. Don't do any of the side missions where you go back to earlier levels, they all suck and its just bad padding. Just power through the main story and do some of the stuff in the Hub if you are into quieter moments and want more lore about the characters.

It feels like for TNC they had some tropes they wanted to get in there no matter how it affected the story/tone, and the cutscenes and dialogue came off as a poor attempt at copying the TNO. I think they were going for an Alien > Aliens thing, but its more like Alien > Alien 3.
 
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HE1NZ

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Wolfenstein 2009 is pretty damn good. Bethesda probably being super greedy about paying Activision a penny for a license. Return to Castle Wolfenstein never left Steam, but it's also an Activision game. Maybe Microsoft can push for it's restoration in digital stores.
 

SirKicksalot

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2009 is better than the new ones.

Isn’t The New Order a direct sequel to it?

It's a loose sequel, just like 2009 is to RTCW and RTCW to the old ones. They all keep some things and rewrite others.
TNO was designed in the summer of 2010 when MachineGames set up camp at id in Texas for a few weeks. The story, characters, levels, setpieces etc. were created back then. That's why it's not a complete fucking trainwreck like TNC. Both games reference 2009.
 

Rock And Roll

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Not sure what nosedive you referring to, New Colossus is at 87% on Metacritic and is one of the highest rated games in the franchise. User reviews are lower yes, but I can't take them too seriously when there are people who give games a score of zero.

I feel like the reviewers tried to make up for the low score by rating the second game higher. Everyone thought TNO was brilliant upon release but the gaming press don't know what makes a good FPS game. So they tried to make amends by rating TNC higher even though its not as tight as its predecessor.

Interestingly enough I think the same thing happened with Doom/Doom Eternal. Doom got a lot of 7-8s when it was released but the fans though it was fantastic, then when Eternal came out the press gave it a better rating while most fans felt Eternal was a step in the wrong direction.
 

sn0man

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Wolfenstein 2009 is pretty damn good. Bethesda probably being super greedy about paying Activision a penny for a license. Return to Castle Wolfenstein never left Steam, but it's also an Activision game. Maybe Microsoft can push for it's restoration in digital stores.
I was just looking at all the old id properties on PC (Steam) and was sad to see 2009 not on there. Can it be purchased anywhere? I never played it and plan to after playing quake 4. (Got busy with adulthood after playing Doom3 so I got to catch up.)
 

Dream-Knife

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I never played that game, but I really dislike the new Wolfenstein (and Doom) games. They feel really bad control and map wise to me, and I spend more time trying to figure out where to go than anything.

I really loved RTCW and Wolfenstein: Enemy Territory (free online game on PC built on the RTCW engine).
 

Cert.in.Death

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I started playing TNC, but something about it just wasn't striking the same chord as TNO or Old Blood. I quit shortly after the NY level.

I don't know have any experience with Youngblood, but apparently it's universally despised. I wouldn't mind seeing more in the franchise but am equally amenable to Machine Games moving on.
 

Balducci30

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Not sure what nosedive you referring to, New Colossus is at 87% on Metacritic and is one of the highest rated games in the franchise. User reviews are lower yes, but I can't take them too seriously when there are people who give games a score of zero.
New Colossus was a lot worse imo - I played it first. New Order was great but something felt off with the gameplay comparatively in New Colossus. Like how it was designed, didn’t feel as fun I don’t know why. Also the main characters voice acting was super annoying for me when he’s like wistfully talking about “Caroline”
 
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Oct 2, 2019
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TNO was good gameplay wise but was bogged down by a self serious story/dialogue, a cringy "inner" voice, and an over reliance on stealth that's in contrast to the gunplay design that favors rushing through enemies and not crouching behind cover.

The Old Blood was better IMO as it embraced the occult back ground of more recent games like RTCW/2009 and the story was minimal.

Now TNC..... Wew lad i couldn't finish that stinker, i got as far as New Orleans before dropping it again for the 3rd time, it was so far up it's own ass in wokeness.

TNB looks like a desperate attempt at salvaging the franchise after TNC tanked and a major waste of talent for everyone at Archane studios.

Rest in Piss.
 
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Oct 27, 2012
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Probably because Youngblood went woke, went broke, and they find themselves in the terrible conundrum; either they continue with the Blazcowitz girls who nobody cares about, or they go back to having a strong protagonist and make a non-complicated, tongue-in-cheek nazi killing game again. Which will inevitably get them panned in the usual spots (Polygon, etc.). That, or rebooting the series - something that would benefit nobody because the first game is universally loved and the other two got pretty decent reviews.

So instead of doing any that they pretend the series doesn't exist anymore. It's the move that costs them the least amount of $!
 
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Rock And Roll

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Youngblood is an awful game even without the woke propaganda. I thought maybe the negativity was due to how woke it was, which would be annoying but the game itself might still be enjoyable. They completely ruined the gameplay and made it a chore to play.

I only played for a couple of hours with my buddy before tapping out and I've tried to repress my memories of that game, but one thing that stood out to me is if you stealth kill the officers it doesn't make a difference and you still get waves of enemies. The game was also grindy as hell due to forced RPG elements. There was a bunch of other stuff that came up which I can't remember but Youngblood was just a terrible game altogether. Wokeness was just the final slap in the face to anyone who enjoyed the franchise.
 
Oct 27, 2012
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Youngblood is an awful game even without the woke propaganda. I thought maybe the negativity was due to how woke it was, which would be annoying but the game itself might still be enjoyable. They completely ruined the gameplay and made it a chore to play.

I only played for a couple of hours with my buddy before tapping out and I've tried to repress my memories of that game, but one thing that stood out to me is if you stealth kill the officers it doesn't make a difference and you still get waves of enemies. The game was also grindy as hell due to forced RPG elements. There was a bunch of other stuff that came up which I can't remember but Youngblood was just a terrible game altogether. Wokeness was just the final slap in the face to anyone who enjoyed the franchise.

Agreed, I loved all three prior games and I couldn't play more than a couple hours of Youngblood. It's simply not fun.

Wolfenstein needs to be closer in scope to Doom than to Prey IMO.
 

VN1X

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I had to stop playing that game after a couple of hours, due to the cringe and awful writing.
Fuck knows what they were thinking with that game.
I had a ton of fun with that game, played through it in its entirety with my girlfriend.

Loved the Arkaney map design and movement mechanics. We pretty much 100 percented it in terms of collectibles as well.
 

Dinky

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I feel like the reviewers tried to make up for the low score by rating the second game higher. Everyone thought TNO was brilliant upon release but the gaming press don't know what makes a good FPS game. So they tried to make amends by rating TNC higher even though its not as tight as its predecessor.

Interestingly enough I think the same thing happened with Doom/Doom Eternal. Doom got a lot of 7-8s when it was released but the fans though it was fantastic, then when Eternal came out the press gave it a better rating while most fans felt Eternal was a step in the wrong direction.
Doom 2016 still rated at high 85 and wasn't far off from the sequel. I feel like the things you mentioned are more of a problem for hardcore follower of a game like Wolfenstein, which might not translate to experience of the general gaming audience. I personally agree with you that changes made to Wolfenstein sequel were wrong, but I think devs and publishers are not looking at gamers like us when making games nowadays, it's more about all the boxes they have to tick to get good reviews and wider appeal.
 
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AV

We ain't outta here in ten minutes, we won't need no rocket to fly through space
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They'll be referring to youngblood. Which most definitely went woke and suffered drastically for it. BJ's daughters are some of the worst written, looking and acted characters I've ever seen.

Nah, people kicked up a fuss about New Colossus. The advertising campaign poked fun at Trump so some of those folks got mad and started screaming about SJW agendas and propaganda in a game where you fight Nazis on the moon. Others got mad that BJ had a black girlfriend as a kid or some shit. It was ridiculous, whatever it was, it was long enough ago that I've forgotten.
 

DaleinCalgary

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Don't know. I just started New Order for the 1st time, and so far the game is amazing. Reading through reviews it's a damn shame the series took a nose dive afterwards. I'd say either has the series to a new team or back to it's roots.
I loved the first one and didn't like the following stuff either.
 

SkylineRKR

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The New Colossus didn't feel right. You feel underpowered for a good part of the game, which is the point of the plot but still. Level design is also fairly bad. You can go ham but then its kinda late.

New Order was great. Didn't play Youngblood but its reportedly nothing special.
 

Barakov

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Really enjoyed The New Order and The Old Blood. Then I saw the direction they were going in with TNC and decided to not even bother with it. Youngblood just reinforced that decision. This thread makes me want to play through RTCW. Again.
 
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SJRB

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Youngblood was a catastrophic failure on so many levels they've probably gone back to the drawing board.

I can only hope whoever is responsible for Youngblood is kicked out, because holy shit what an abhorrent game.
 

VN1X

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I’m currently playing through Raven’s Wolfenstein and quite enjoying it. I played it around launch but initially found the hub map and collect-a-thon aspect annoying, but after a decade of games designed around collecting meaningless crap, this is quaint in comparison. The hub map isn’t that large and rummaging around looking for gold and intel isn’t as much of a pain as I thought it was. The gunplay is tight snd the crystal mechanics are fun. I thought the upgrade mechanics were annoying in ‘09, but now every game under the sun has you upgrade stuff so again it’s quaint in comparison. The voice acting is Texas awful but it’s almost amusing to hear the bad German accents. The story is pulpy but not self-aware. Overall, in terms of an arbitrary rating I’d say it’s a sold 7-8 game so far.

Why did Bethesda memory hole it? Isn’t The New Order a direct sequel to it?
Request for thread title change to clarify you're talking about Raven's effort? Because the current thread title one is triggering as fuck lol. Bethesda and Machine Games + Arkane have done an excellent job with the franchise.

Unfortunately I never played Wolfenstein '09 as Activision removed it from Steam for whatever reason. So not sure why "Bethesda have memory holed it" as it's not 'their' game?
 
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tsumake

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Request for thread title change to clarify you're talking about Raven's effort? Because the current thread title one is triggering as fuck lol. Bethesda and Machine Games + Arkane have done an excellent job with the franchise.

Unfortunately I never played Wolfenstein '09 as Activision removed it from Steam for whatever reason. So not sure why "Bethesda have memory holed it" as it's not 'their' game?

Yeah, I thought I put the “‘09” there. Could someone add it to the thread title?
 
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StateofMajora

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The new games are a craptastic mix of cringe and woke. The team has the mind virus for sure. But as for the cringe, even in the new order, it’s like.... why is this guy constantly breathing heavy and monologing in my ear at all times? Gunplay is honestly not bad, but not great. Well honestly it might be kinda bad too, been a while. Only thing I can say for sure is the guns had oomph. What’s decent is ruined by the cringe.

2009 was not bad. By comparison to the new stuff it was quite good.
 
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bender

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I've never played '09, probably because of the lukewarm reception. I really don't love how the Machine Games feel mechanically.
 

bender

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The New Order is by far the best Wolfenstein game and it isn't even close, so the thread title is weird to me.

 
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WalterSobchak

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I remember playing one for ps2 back in the day that was pretty fun , like '04ish. Don't remember if I beat it.
Never got to try the 360 one op mentions.

I need to play the Old Blood as I am reminded in this thread of its praise . I have it kicking around in my backlog. Anyone know how long it is if you collect most things and search the nooks and crannies ?
I liked the new order and Collossus was pretty good minus the weird ass story (catching BJs severed head falling down a pit with the flying robot?)
Hopefully they put some good thought into moving forward with the IP . Whether it's a reboot or continuation. It needs BJ Blaskowitz imo as the lead. If the gameplay is fun I'll be there. Kinda would not mind a reboot honestly.
 

rofif

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yeah 2010 wolf was better than new ones. New order was not bad. Dlc too... but new colossus meh
 

MiguelItUp

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Forsake it? I personally thought they helped it a great deal.

I mean, Wolfenstein (2009) really didn't do too well. Hell, no one really even talked about it. I know I didn't even give it a shot aside from the feedback/help I contributed while at Pi Studios. It was an earlier build at the time, sure, but it didn't give me huge hope for the final product. Even my co-workers at the time were like, "It's cool to be working on it, sure. But man, it's not nearly as good as Return To Castle Wolfenstein..."

The New Order was amazing IMO, as was The Old Blood. Some of the best Wolf games out there. Hell, the New Colossus really wasn't bad either. But for whatever reason dorks out there can't decipher the difference between grindhouse influence and something being "woke." So a lot of people overlooked it or tried to shat on it as a result. Pretty silly IMO.

Now Youngblood, that was a BIG oof. It almost felt like a game that originally WASN'T Wolfenstein, but then they decided to throw the IP on it. Totally missed the mark in a lot of ways. Could've been worse, sure. But good God, could it have been better.

I'm sure they wanna do something to replace that game with something better.
 
Feb 18, 2019
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I’m currently playing through Raven’s Wolfenstein and quite enjoying it. I played it around launch but initially found the hub map and collect-a-thon aspect annoying, but after a decade of games designed around collecting meaningless crap, this is quaint in comparison. The hub map isn’t that large and rummaging around looking for gold and intel isn’t as much of a pain as I thought it was. The gunplay is tight snd the crystal mechanics are fun. I thought the upgrade mechanics were annoying in ‘09, but now every game under the sun has you upgrade stuff so again it’s quaint in comparison. The voice acting is Texas awful but it’s almost amusing to hear the bad German accents. The story is pulpy but not self-aware. Overall, in terms of an arbitrary rating I’d say it’s a sold 7-8 game so far.

Why did Bethesda memory hole it? Isn’t The New Order a direct sequel to it?
Tno is awesome, tnc is a little worse than Tno but still good

I liked raven's wolfy enough, the best aspect, for me, is ironically the hub map and the secrets in it, I had a ton of fun just booting the game to free roam after completion, kill some nazis, find secrets and treasure and iirc I 100% it on 360
 

RileyPust

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Nah, people kicked up a fuss about New Colossus. The advertising campaign poked fun at Trump so some of those folks got mad and started screaming about SJW agendas and propaganda in a game where you fight Nazis on the moon. Others got mad that BJ had a black girlfriend as a kid or some shit. It was ridiculous, whatever it was, it was long enough ago that I've forgotten.
"Make America Nazi-free Again" I believe was what set it all off. It was a pretty stupid thing for them to do. It wasn't so much about wokeness as it was about firing a shot at everyone on one side of the political aisle.


To make matters worse, they were completely smug about it. Their response to people who were annoyed at being compared to the most villainous group of people in our history was "oh look people are defending Nazis!" And then they tried to claim that the game was being targeted by the alt-right when it was really just Trump voters whom they pointedly insulted.



Game was alright, though. Nothing special.
 
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Salz01

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Machine Gun games are overrated. Im trying to play New Colossus again, and the story is just beyond cringe. Fraun Engel is just a weak super bad. She’s annoying, the good guys are annoying