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[Estellex]

Some of the moral code of Christianity pretty much align with what any decent human being believes in. Ex: Don't kill or steal

The only thing that I see that separates a Christian and a non-believer is the belief of Jesus Christ. However, besides that is there anything that I should be aware of?

If you are wondering why I am thinking of being a Christian is because I pretty much joined a Christian fellowship, which at first I just wanted to chill and network but I feel their influence rubbing on me.

 

[Dice]

Depends. What kind of Christian?

 

[Squirrel Killer]

Believing in Jesus' sacrifice is kinda life changing, but it doesn't have to be a 180 degree about face "I know how to handle snakes" life changing event.

I mean, take all the supernatural divinity shit out of Jesus' story if you want and it's still pretty inspiring. This dude knew that preaching "be nice to one another regardless of what your old testament decoder ring tells you" would get him killed. And he still went through with it so that everyone could know that they are forgiven of their sins (whatever those may be,) that they deserve to be treated with humanity, and that they should return the favor to others.

Even if you don't stick a gaudy emblem on your car bumper, it can still change how you look at life and other people. You can still drink, smoke, fuck, and skip Sunday morning church like the rest of us.

 

[Kamina]

Does it bother you to go to church on Sundays and any major Christian Holiday?

 

[Kenpachii]

Some of the moral code of Christianity pretty much align with what any decent human being believes in. Ex: Don't kill or steal

The only thing that I see that separates a Christian and a non-believer is the belief of Jesus Christ. However, besides that is there anything that I should be aware of?

If you are wondering why I am thinking of being a Christian is because I pretty much joined a Christian fellowship, which at first I just wanted to chill and network but I feel their influence rubbing on me.

Religion for most is simple what you make it self out to be. Whatever people try to tell you and learn there ways is just nothing but a smoke screen they put infront of them to think they are doing a good job.

You basically go through christening as a child and boom there you go. Never readed the bible, did any of the church visits or even know who jesus christ is? no problem still a Christian.

So it effects you to the point you make it effect you really.

The only thing i got out of all the schooling i had and church visits as a child was be a good human being, and we got some festivals the end.

 

[Aeris1991]

You're getting some bad advice so far in this thread.

Yes, it will change everything about your life. Jesus said in Luke 9:23, "If anyone would come after me, let him deny himself and take up his cross daily and follow me." Being a Christian isn't about following rules - the reason Jesus died in the first place was because he knew you wouldn't be able to follow the rules - but it is about a daily journey of killing sin and becoming more like Christ. Paul said in Romans 6:11, "Even so consider yourselves to be dead to sin, but alive to God in Christ Jesus."

Being a Christian means you believe that Jesus is the son of God, and you believe that he took the punishment you deserved for all of the things you do wrong. Knowing that truth, you will not want to willfully sin, because doing so means you're grabbing a hammer and bashing the nails into the man who's being murdered on your account. Imagine your best friend, or your father, in the electric chair because of a crime you committed. He willingly put himself in that chair so you could live even though you committed the crime and he is innocent. Do you walk in and flip the switch and laugh while he dies looking you in the eyes? That would be insanity.

Flavel said it this way in the 1600s, through this fictitious conversation between Christ and God:

• God: “My son, here is a company of poor miserable souls, that have utterly undone themselves, and now lie open to my justice! Justice demands satisfaction for them, or will satisfy itself in the eternal ruin of them: What shall be done for these souls?”
• Christ: “O my Father, such is my love to, and pity for them, that rather than they shall perish eternally, I will be responsible for them as their Surety; bring in all thy bills, that I may see what they owe thee; Lord, bring them all in, that there may be no after-reckonings with them; at my hand shalt thou require it. I will rather choose to suffer thy wrath than they should suffer it: upon me, my Father, upon me be all their debt.”
• God: “But, my Son, if thou undertake for them, thou must reckon to pay the last mite, expect no abatements; if I spare them, I will not spare thee.”
• Christ: “Content, Father, let it be so; charge it all upon me, I am able to discharge it: and though it prove a kind of undoing to me, though it impoverish all my riches, empty all my treasures, yet I am content to undertake it.”

You deserved death and Christ took it on your behalf. You (and everyone for that matter) were created to worship him because (1) He's owed that because he is God and even beyond that, (2) He took on the form of man and subjected himself to torture and death because he loves you and wanted you to avoid the eternal punishment you rightly and justly deserve - not only for all the bad things you've done, but also for the fact that you're not worshiping him every second of every day, like he deserves.

Being a Christian means you'll spend the rest of your life trying to worship him, and be more like him. This means reading the Bible, praying, and doing whatever you can to become more like Jesus and to worship God. Not because you're supposed to, but because you want to. And if you believe that Jesus took your place on that cross, then you'll want to. And when you screw up - and you will every day - you can rest assured that your debts have already been paid. You'll pick your cross back up, and redouble your efforts to do better for the man who paid those debts and the God that sent him to do it.

 

[Beard of the Forest]

Believe in what you believe in, why label it?

 

[Mohonky]

Does it bother you to go to church on Sundays and any major Christian Holiday?

You dont need to do that.

 

[llien]

The only thing that I see that separates a Christian and a non-believer is the belief of Jesus Christ. However, besides that is there anything that I should be aware of?

Well, cough, what about sex? Let alone, homosexual sex.

 

[thelawof4]

Believe in what you believe in, why label it?

The reason for that seems quite obvious to me (and from an outsider-perspective also reasonable):

If you are wondering why I am thinking of being a Christian is because I pretty much joined a Christian fellowship, which at first I just wanted to chill and network but I feel their influence rubbing on me.

Is this 'fellowship' exclusive to Christians or are people allowed to partake in activities/discussions with others?

 

[JDB]

Just become a pretend Christian like the rest of the West.

 

[mcz117chief]

snip

As a Catholic theologian I must say I am most impressed with your post, your fervour is admirable and beautiful.

 

[OH-MyCar]

Just become a pretend Christian like the rest of the West.

There is some truth in that: When you have so many people who are there solely for status, it sorta illuminates the fact that you're really free to approach these things however you personally feel fit. Like any large group of people, Christians have collectively shat the bed so many times over the course of history that you're not indebted to any of them (just like Atheists, Muslims, Liberals, Conservatives...).

All of the primary source material is already there; you don't need anyone to interpret it or parse things out for you. In my experience, relying too much on the latter is when things tend to go south. Even fundamentalism tends to come out of following others who've put themselves in a position of power to delineate these things, rather than (ironically?) going directly to the text to figure out things for oneself.

I'd say develop your own, personal relationship with the bible and go from there.

 

[shira]

Some of the moral code of Christianity pretty much align with what any decent human being believes in. Ex: Don't kill or steal

The only thing that I see that separates a Christian and a non-believer is the belief of Jesus Christ. However, besides that is there anything that I should be aware of?

If you are wondering why I am thinking of being a Christian is because I pretty much joined a Christian fellowship, which at first I just wanted to chill and network but I feel their influence rubbing on me.

Some of the more complex day-to-day issues are abortion, LGBQT rights, casual sex

If you just want a place to chill and meet people seems fine, just be aware they are actively trying to "recruit" you.

 

[SDCowboy]

Some of the moral code of Christianity pretty much align with what any decent human being believes in. Ex: Don't kill or steal

The only thing that I see that separates a Christian and a non-believer is the belief of Jesus Christ. However, besides that is there anything that I should be aware of?

If you are wondering why I am thinking of being a Christian is because I pretty much joined a Christian fellowship, which at first I just wanted to chill and network but I feel their influence rubbing on me.

You seem to be leaving a rather large entity out of your equation of being Christian. The belief in, you know...God?

 

[Elwainen]

 

[Dr. Claus]

Some of the moral code of Christianity pretty much align with what any decent human being believes in. Ex: Don't kill or steal

The only thing that I see that separates a Christian and a non-believer is the belief of Jesus Christ. However, besides that is there anything that I should be aware of?

If you are wondering why I am thinking of being a Christian is because I pretty much joined a Christian fellowship, which at first I just wanted to chill and network but I feel their influence rubbing on me.

Depends entirely on how you want to deal with it. I know some Christians are absolutely lazy and only occasionally go to church/pray/what-have-you. Then you have the super devote that memorize the entire holy book and go to church at every moment they are able to. There is a such a wide range with many different denominations within christianity.

 

[Bolivar687]

Hearing that Jesus had silenced the Sadducees, the Pharisees got together. 35 One of them, an expert in the law, tested him with this question: 36 “Teacher, which is the greatest commandment in the Law?”

37 Jesus replied: “‘Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind.’[c] 38 This is the first and greatest commandment. 39 And the second is like it: ‘Love your neighbor as yourself.’[d] 40 All the Law and the Prophets hang on these two commandments.”

Matthew 22:34-40

These two guidelines are generally enough to get you through your discipleship as a Christian. However, the deeper you go and the longer you walk with Christ, the higher the standard gets. Even the Apostles who gave up everything to follow Jesus (including, inevitably, their lives) questioned whether it was really possible to live the life He was prescribing. (Matthew 19:25). However, He doesn't ask any more from you than you are capable of giving (Matthew 19:11). Vince Lombardi, a devout Catholic who served at daily mass, once told the Packers they were going to relentless chase perfection, knowing fully well that they would fail, but in the pursuit, they would catch excellence. This is ultimately what it means to be a Christian.

Just know that if you're not joining the Orthodox, Anglican, Scandinavian Lutheran or, ideally, the Roman Catholic church, you're not really a Christian. One of the most important things Christ did during his ministry was to create a priesthood with the power to forgive sins (John 20:23) and commissioned to create more disciples (Matthew 28:19) one of whom God could reveal answers to questions humans can't really resolve on their own (Matthew 16:17), and it's upon this relationship which Christ interfaces with the rest of the world (Matthew 16:18).

 

[n0razi]

A real Christian (celibacy before marriage, love enemies more than yourself, donate 10%+ of your income to charity, don't lie/cheat/steal, devote life to missionary/charities, etc) or a 'faux Christian's like most Americans?

 

[Kamina]

You dont need to do that.

You dont have to, but it is actually the way of epressing the 4th commandment according to most Christian churches, so you should.

 

[NickFire]

A real Christian (celibacy before marriage, love enemies more than yourself, donate 10%+ of your income to charity, don't lie/cheat/steal, devote life to missionary/charities, etc) or a 'faux Christian's like most Americans?

Failures to reach ideals and sinning do not make someone a "faux" Christian. Believing it does is an inherent misunderstanding of Christianity.

 

[Platinumstorm]

You're getting some bad advice so far in this thread.

I would hesitate to say that he is getting any bad advice.

 

[crisdecuba]

Some of the moral code of Christianity pretty much align with what any decent human being believes in. Ex: Don't kill or steal

The only thing that I see that separates a Christian and a non-believer is the belief of Jesus Christ. However, besides that is there anything that I should be aware of?

If you are wondering why I am thinking of being a Christian is because I pretty much joined a Christian fellowship, which at first I just wanted to chill and network but I feel their influence rubbing on me.

Short answer is that it would have an increasing effect on your life over time. But give it a genuine shot and see what you think.

 

[appaws]

Depends. What kind of Christian?

This is really the correct answer. There is a world of difference between an orthodox (small o) Catholic or Protestant, and a modernist one. YUGE.

Well, cough, what about sex? Let alone, homosexual sex.

See above. It's not really a problem if you are a part of one of the man-centered, modernist "churches." Of course for an orthodox (small o) Christian sex is supposed to be limited to marriage. And for a Catholic, it is limited to a sacramental marriage and it must be done in a fashion that is open to procreation.

 

[Squirrel Killer]

Yeah, I think you're getting some bad advice in this thread. For example, you don't have to spit out long thoroughly cited theological treatises whenever someone brings up the topic of Christianity, that's completely optional.

But despite giving Aeris1991 a bit of hard time there, I don't think we're too far apart in our advice. Following Christ doesn't change what you do, it changes why you do what you do and therefore you might find yourself making different choices in what you do.

You also don't have to change your mind about LGBT issues or abortion if those are important to you, Jesus didn't say a word about either. In fact, I defy anyone to square ”Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind. This is the first and greatest commandment. And the second is like it: Love your neighbor as yourself." with the ostracization of LGBT and other people.

 

[synchronicity]

You also don't have to change your mind about LGBT issues or abortion if those are important to you, Jesus didn't say a word about either. In fact, I defy anyone to square ”Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind. This is the first and greatest commandment. And the second is like it: Love your neighbor as yourself." with the ostracization of LGBT and other people.

I'm far from religious, but I appreciate that sentiment, and I wish more (all) who identify as Christian would recognize the same.

 

[Estellex]

Thanks for all your input guys.

 

[LordPezix]

"If the only thing keeping a person decent is the expectation of divine reward then, brother, that person is a piece of shit." - Rust Cohle

 

[Aeris1991]

I'm far from religious, but I appreciate that sentiment, and I wish more (all) who identify as Christian would recognize the same.

Morality is decided by God. Nothing we can really do about it. When you believe there's an omnipotent creator, who are you to tell him he's wrong? We've been contemplating this question for millennia: Romans 9:20 - "But who are you, a human being, to talk back to God? Shall what is formed say to the one who formed it, ‘Why did you make me like this?’ "

One of the most bizarre responses I hear to this is, "Well if God says that X is wrong, then I don't want to worship that type of God anyway." A pretty absurd statement when you think about it. He may be the eternal creator of the entire universe, who holds all of existence together by power of his word, who assembled the neurons in your brain along with every atom in existence, but we're the ones with the moral high ground and the authority to look at the Bible and separate out what's good from what's bad. We are dust, ashes, nothing. In a hundred years you'll barely be a memory, and in two hundred years your name will never be spoken again. In a thousand years society will have a new moral code that's totally different from yours, and will likely view your beliefs as embarrassing, incoherent, and many as flatly abhorrent - just as we do to societies not even a few hundred years ago.

You can reject belief in God. But you can't believe in the Judeo-Christian God and pick and choose your morality. If you do that, then you're believing in a made-up god, crafted to fit your beliefs and lifestyle. In other words - you're just worshiping yourself.

 

[Kamina]

"If the only thing keeping a person decent is the expectation of divine reward then, brother, that person is a piece of shit." - Rust Cohle

Its about salvation not reward. Love is the ultimate expression of gods will, and one who's heart is faking love but suceeds to live in accordance to the expected christian values is certainly a better human being than someone who says fuck it and lives a life of hate and disrespect of others. In the end, god will judge the motivations and tasks of each individually.

Being good is a reward in itself.

 

[AngularSaxophone]

I’m currently learning that there’s a difference in believing in Christ and KNOWING Christ. You should be striving to know Christ in your walk. Knowing Christ indeed will change your lifestyle as you’ll come to know that we are born into a world that is pretty much lies on top of lies but through the Holy Spirit you can be led to repentance and you’ll begin to shed old ways of thinking as well as bad habits that we pick up that slow us down and beat us up physically and spiritually.

 

[LordPezix]

Its about salvation not reward. Love is the ultimate expression of gods will, and one who's heart is faking love but suceeds to live in accordance to the expected christian values is certainly a better human being than someone who says fuck it and lives a life of hate and disrespect of others. In the end, god will judge the motivations and tasks of each individually.

Being good is a reward in itself.

Someone get this man an HBO subscription please.

 

[Croatoan]

I go to church, but I am more of a pantheist than a Christian. I want to believe God cares, and I still pray and try to follow Christian ideals. Though I can't shake the feeling that jesus was an amazing person, but his and our God simply doesn't pay attention or even care. Imo, Jesus' divinity isn't really that important unless you believe God cares. At that point you have to explain why a caring God would allow some of the shit that is happening to happen.

I Blame my science based education and an interest in philosophy for my religious struggles.

I guess it's possible that we are living in hell right now...

 

[Squirrel Killer]

Morality is decided by God. Nothing we can really do about it. When you believe there's an omnipotent creator, who are you to tell him he's wrong? We've been contemplating this question for millennia: Romans 9:20 - "But who are you, a human being, to talk back to God? Shall what is formed say to the one who formed it, ‘Why did you make me like this?’ "

One of the most bizarre responses I hear to this is, "Well if God says that X is wrong, then I don't want to worship that type of God anyway." A pretty absurd statement when you think about it. He may be the eternal creator of the entire universe, who holds all of existence together by power of his word, who assembled the neurons in your brain along with every atom in existence, but we're the ones with the moral high ground and the authority to look at the Bible and separate out what's good from what's bad. We are dust, ashes, nothing. In a hundred years you'll barely be a memory, and in two hundred years your name will never be spoken again. In a thousand years society will have a new moral code that's totally different from yours, and will likely view your beliefs as embarrassing, incoherent, and many as flatly abhorrent - just as we do to societies not even a few hundred years ago.

You can reject belief in God. But you can't believe in the Judeo-Christian God and pick and choose your morality. If you do that, then you're believing in a made-up god, crafted to fit your beliefs and lifestyle. In other words - you're just worshiping yourself.

Not quite sure where you're going with this, but the sentiment that synchronicity was appreciating is theologically sound. God, through Jesus, says that the second greatest commandment, just after loving God, is to love your neighbor. Ostracization is not love. Judging someone for the splinter in their eye is not love.

 

[Aeris1991]

Not quite sure where you're going with this, but the sentiment that synchronicity was appreciating is theologically sound. God, through Jesus, says that the second greatest commandment, just after loving God, is to love your neighbor. Ostracization is not love. Judging someone for the splinter in their eye is not love.

Agreed, ostracization is not love. Judgement can be in love, though. Happened all the time in the New Testament and happens today across all walks of life. Parents must tell their children when they do something wrong, but it doesn't mean they don't love them. In fact, they do it because they love them.

Christians must be willing to die to show God's love to everyone, as Christ did for us when we were still sinners. But they must also speak the truth about right and wrong. I would not argue that the latter happens too often without the former.

 

[AngularSaxophone]

I go to church, but I am more of a pantheist than a Christian. I want to believe God cares, and I still pray and try to follow Christian ideals. Though I can't shake the feeling that jesus was an amazing person, but his and our God simply doesn't pay attention or even care. Imo, Jesus' divinity isn't really that important unless you believe God cares. At that point you have to explain why a caring God would allow some of the shit that is happening to happen.

I Blame my science based education and an interest in philosophy for my religious struggles.

I guess it's possible that we are living in hell right now...

He definitely cares. Actions can go far beyond what we’re capable of understanding. Everything effects everything. Although God can do ANYTHING, would you rather be someone that makes His work more difficult or would you rather be a blessing to Him as He is to us? We all stumble but there is scripture that actually talks about being hostile toward God.

 

[AngularSaxophone]

Not quite sure where you're going with this, but the sentiment that synchronicity was appreciating is theologically sound. God, through Jesus, says that the second greatest commandment, just after loving God, is to love your neighbor. Ostracization is not love. Judging someone for the splinter in their eye is not love.

Although Christ did and does the perfect will of God, he is not God himself. He sits at the right hand of God. He’s the SON of God. For God so loved the world He sent His Son. God is fully apart from sin. If God would have come himself I think everyone would have died instantly. As far as judgement goes, I think it’s conrinthians that says to judge those in the church but not those outside of the church as that judgment is reserved for God and God alone. But if silliness is going on within the Church, we are to judge as to rid the body of the enemy.

 

[Squirrel Killer]

Agreed, ostracization is not love. Judgement can be in love, though. Happened all the time in the New Testament and happens today across all walks of life. Parents must tell their children when they do something wrong, but it doesn't mean they don't love them. In fact, they do it because they love them.

It really feels like you're beating around the bush here. What do you think Jesus said about how to treat LGBT people?

Christians must be willing to die to show God's love to everyone, as Christ did for us when we were still sinners. But they must also speak the truth about right and wrong. I would not argue that the latter happens too often without the former.

There are compassionate, loving ways to speak the truth about right and wrong, and there are incompassionate, hateful ways. In addition, there are those who are wrong in their interpretations of right and wrong.

Although Christ did and does the perfect will of God, he is not God himself. He sits at the right hand of God. He’s the SON of God. For God so loved the world He sent His Son. God is fully apart from sin. If God would have come himself I think everyone would have died instantly. As far as judgement goes, I think it’s conrinthians that says to judge those in the church but not those outside of the church as that judgment is reserved for God and God alone. But if silliness is going on within the Church, we are to judge as to rid the body of the enemy.

"God in three persons | Blessed trinity" is how I believe the song goes. Each member of the holy trinity is wholly God. That is a fundamental mystery of Christianity.

 

[AngularSaxophone]

It really feels like you're beating around the bush here. What do you think Jesus said about how to treat LGBT people?


There are compassionate, loving ways to speak the truth about right and wrong, and there are incompassionate, hateful ways. In addition, there are those who are wrong in their interpretations of right and wrong.


"God in three persons | Blessed trinity" is how I believe the song goes. Each member of the holy trinity is wholly God. That is a fundamental mystery of Christianity.

I think that’s either corrupted doctrine or misunderstood. There is no way that anyone reading the Bible themselves can come away saying that Christ is God. The scripture you are referring to is this one.

“For there are three that bear record in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost: and these three are one. And there are three that bear witness in earth, the Spirit, and the water, and the blood: and these three agree in one. If we receive the witness of men, the witness of God is greater: for this is the witness of God which he hath testified of his Son. He that believeth on the Son of God hath the witness in himself: he that believeth not God hath made him a liar; because he believeth not the record that God gave of his Son. And this is the record, that God hath given to us eternal life, and this life is in his Son.”
1 John 5:7-11 KJV

Three entities all one ONE accord. Christ nor the Holy Spirit are going to go against the will of God or be contradictory or contrary to God. Christ is the Son who does the will of God, the Holy Spirit is the spirit of truth. There is no lie in God therefor the Holy Spirit cannot testify contrary to God. It’s pretty clear throughout scripture that Christ is the Son. On the cross where he died for our sins he calls out to God, His Father but because at that moment Christ beared the sins of the world, God turned his face. I don’t want to go against board rules and post walls of scripture but I urge you to read these.

John 15:24
John 7:33-34
John 11:40-42
John 5:25
Mark 13:18-19
John 14:1-2
John 14:6-7
John 1:14
John 14:13
1 John 5:7-11
John 1:1-2
John 14:28
Mark 13:31-32
John 12:44, 46-50

Revelation 12 is also the story of the birth of Christ in spirit before the earth took form. Mary was only his surrogate so he could be born of flesh just as you or I yet still conquer sin. She’s not the “mother of god”. She would have had to have been before God to be such. At the wedding party where Christ turns water to wine, Christ doesn’t even call Mary “mother”. He simply calls her “woman”.

 

[Squirrel Killer]

I think that’s either corrupted doctrine or misunderstood. There is no way that anyone reading the Bible themselves can come away saying that Christ is God. The scripture you are referring to is this one.

“For there are three that bear record in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost: and these three are one. And there are three that bear witness in earth, the Spirit, and the water, and the blood: and these three agree in one. If we receive the witness of men, the witness of God is greater: for this is the witness of God which he hath testified of his Son. He that believeth on the Son of God hath the witness in himself: he that believeth not God hath made him a liar; because he believeth not the record that God gave of his Son. And this is the record, that God hath given to us eternal life, and this life is in his Son.”
1 John 5:7-11 KJV

Three entities all one ONE accord. Christ nor the Holy Spirit are going to go against the will of God or be contradictory or contrary to God. Christ is the Son who does the will of God, the Holy Spirit is the spirit of truth. There is no lie in God therefor the Holy Spirit cannot testify contrary to God. It’s pretty clear throughout scripture that Christ is the Son. On the cross where he died for our sins he calls out to God, His Father but because at that moment Christ beared the sins of the world, God turned his face. I don’t want to go against board rules and post walls of scripture but I urge you to read these.

John 15:24
John 7:33-34
John 11:40-42
John 5:25
Mark 13:18-19
John 14:1-2
John 14:6-7
John 1:14
John 14:13
1 John 5:7-11
John 1:1-2
John 14:28
Mark 13:31-32
John 12:44, 46-50

Revelation 12 is also the story of the birth of Christ in spirit before the earth took form. Mary was only his surrogate so he could be born of flesh just as you or I yet still conquer sin. She’s not the “mother of god”. She would have had to have been before God to be such. At the wedding party where Christ turns water to wine, Christ doesn’t even call Mary “mother”. He simply calls her “woman”.

We're kind of drifting off-topic, but the First Council of Nicaea begs to differ with you. The concept of one God in three divine, equal persons is a long-standing doctrine of Christianity. Jesus is not lesser than the Father. He may be the son of God, but he was begotten, not made and is thus true God from true God.

 

[Aeris1991]

It really feels like you're beating around the bush here. What do you think Jesus said about how to treat LGBT people?

Jesus taught that followers of God are supposed to love others and sacrifice themselves for others, including LGBT people. When he said to give to those ask of you, he didn't stipulate that this only applies to people of similar lifestyles and backgrounds.

The Old and New Testaments are also quite clear that homosexuality is a sin.

I think that’s either corrupted doctrine or misunderstood. There is no way that anyone reading the Bible themselves can come away saying that Christ is God. The scripture you are referring to is this one.

You listed John 1:14, which says "The Word became flesh and made his dwelling among us. We have seen his glory, the glory of the one and only Son, who came from the Father, full of grace and truth." A few verses before that it says "In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. He was with God in the beginning. Through him all things were made; without him nothing was made that has been made." How do you reconcile that verse, which seems about as crystal clear as it gets? It literally says "the Word was God." None of the other verses you listed say that Jesus wasn't God. They just say that he was also the Son of God.

For what it's worth, I believed similar to you years ago. I also had been taught what you said - that Jesus was crying out to God to save him from the cross, and that God turned his face. I specifically remember sermons that told me this. Then one day I learned he was quoting a psalm. I'd never heard this before. I read the entire psalm and I was shocked. Jesus quotes it directly and it is literally a script for what was happening to him, written a thousand years prior. Psalm 22: "But I am a worm and not a man, scorned by everyone, despised by the people. All who see me mock me; they hurl insults, shaking their heads. “He trusts in the Lord,” they say, “let the Lord rescue him. Let him deliver him, since he delights in him." ... "Dogs surround me, a pack of villains encircles me; they pierce my hands and my feet. All my bones are on display; people stare and gloat over me. They divide my clothes among them and cast lots for my garment." I hope if you have never heard the rest of this psalm, that you will pray over it and reconsider your view on what Jesus meant by quoting the opening line of it.

I would also recommend checking out John Piper's view on this.

 

[Squirrel Killer]

Jesus taught that followers of God are supposed to love others and sacrifice themselves for others, including LGBT people. When he said to give to those ask of you, he didn't stipulate that this only applies to people of similar lifestyles and backgrounds.

The Old and New Testaments are also quite clear that homosexuality is a sin.

So why did Jesus heal the centurion's servant without telling him to go and sin no more as he said to the adulterous woman?

We're clearly getting off topic here, so to re-rail it, I would just encourage the OP that if being an ally of LGBT people is a component of his lifestyle, there are mainstream denominations that would not have him change that.

 

[AngularSaxophone]

The Word is Christ. The son. With God. Was God being the will of God. Just as Christ says if you have seen me you have seen the Father. Just as scripture says the son will only do what he sees the father doing. Genesis states let US make man in OUR image. That was the word, or Christ WITH God. As far as the council of nicea goes, I believe that’s where a lot of corruption began. Books were removed and sabbath was changed from Saturday to Sunday. Christ never instructed any such thing just as he also never instructed praying to saints. If he said no one gets to the Father except through him, then what use is praying to a saint? It’s kinda idolatrous. As far as quoting psalms, he said many of the psalms are speaking of him. Again, rev 12. He was before the world was. He says that too. I can’t recall who but before so and so, I was.

 

[Aeris1991]

We're clearly getting off topic here, so to re-rail it, I would just encourage the OP that if being an ally of LGBT people is a component of his lifestyle, there are mainstream denominations that would not have him change that.

Respectfully, this is not how one approaches Christianity. Becoming a Christian means acknowledging God's authority over every aspect your existence, and submitting. If a new Christian were to read in the Bible says that he has to eat dog food for the rest of his life, then regardless of his dislike for dog food, guess what he needs to start doing? (Thankfully it doesn't say that.) But as a Christian you need to leave all pre-conceived ideas about anything and everything at the door, and start basing your life on what the Bible says.

 

[Squirrel Killer]

Respectfully, this is not how one approaches Christianity. Becoming a Christian means acknowledging God's authority over every aspect your existence, and submitting. If a new Christian were to read in the Bible says that he has to eat dog food for the rest of his life, then regardless of his dislike for dog food, guess what he needs to start doing? (Thankfully it doesn't say that.) But as a Christian you need to leave all pre-conceived ideas about anything and everything at the door, and start basing your life on what the Bible says.

Respectfully, there are mainstream Christian denominations that disagree with your denomination's interpretation of what the Bible says that God commands.

 

[AngularSaxophone]

I’ll re-rail as well saying that using others as brothers for fellowship and a church for guidance is a great start. But as you can see there are differences in ideas and denominations. This is why we are supposed to always seek. Let the spirit speak to you through scripture once you have your footing. There is no lie or error in the word. All confusion comes from man. ELDERS. That’s where you’ll get the most knowledge from a human source.

 

[AquaticSquirrel]

OP I hate to be "that guy" and I may be reading your situation wrong, if I am I apologize but... what's her name?

What I mean by this is you have gone to this group to network, build up a group of acquaintances/possible friends etc.... but my suspicion is that you've met a girl there that you like and that by joining the group/religion you hope to get closer to her.

I have no idea of what your current levels of belief or adherence to religions are, but groups like this are actively trying to recruit you. Changing your religion (or adopting a new one) is a huge step and commitment in life and you should think very carefully before jumping headfirst into it, especially if it is for a fleeting attraction to some girl.

Forgive my cynical read of the situation above, if that is not the case then I apologize. Regardless of weather or not the above is true, if you are genuinely interested in adopting a new religion it is still a huge decision and undertaking. Something that can be a little sinister about these groups is their psychological tactics, the more you go and are around them the more they work. My advice before making any big decisions would be to abstain from going there for 2 to 3 weeks, right now it's kind of like a drug in your system so you need a little time to clear your head and detox. Hang out and speak with friends and family for that sense of belonging.

During this time think carefully about weather or not you want to devote yourself and your life to a religion. If you still do, then that's great and I'm happy for you as I feel you've made the decision that was right for you after contemplating it long and hard. Again apologies if my post comes across as non-supportive, it's really not my intention but I just want you to be aware of the gravity of what a big decision changing your life like that will be, plus I'm a bit of a cynic.

 

[Airola]

Respectfully, this is not how one approaches Christianity. Becoming a Christian means acknowledging God's authority over every aspect your existence, and submitting. If a new Christian were to read in the Bible says that he has to eat dog food for the rest of his life, then regardless of his dislike for dog food, guess what he needs to start doing? (Thankfully it doesn't say that.) But as a Christian you need to leave all pre-conceived ideas about anything and everything at the door, and start basing your life on what the Bible says.

But then again... If you could follow all the rules in the Bible you could as well be Jewish. Accepting God's authority and submitting to him is already what being Jewish is all about.

I'd say Christianity is about understanding God is the authority and a lot of his rules and his will is something you can't follow or aren't willing to follow - and there is the conflict. If God is the ultimate authority, you will be held accountable for that. Now, this doesn't mean you shouldn't strive to be what God wants you to be. It just means none of us is able to be that and that's why we need a Saviour to save us from this certain metaphysical destruction. And what's even better, this Saviour - when you put your trust in him - will give you more strength and will to be that better person. But again, you will never be completely free from the will to sin in this life. If you would, then the works of that Saviour would not be needed.

If Christianity would be about being a 100% good person who follows every rule in the Bible and never sins, then Christianity would be Judaism + having to believe in one another thing. It would be as hard as Judaism for us to follow plus one added thing to put on top of all that. It would not be a relief of any sort to anyone.

Of course this is not an excuse to continue sinning. You will naturally have a new perspective on sin and you will naturally have less will to sin and you will naturally sin less when you believe in Christ. If one hasn't changed their ways or thinking at all, the odds are one either doesn't really believe in it or one is dangerously close to stop believing, or maybe one is still taking extremely small baby steps towards the faith.

While it is true that we should be able to say sin is sin - and it would be dangerous to go and change the definition of sin and suddenly stop calling sinful things sinful things and at worst to start call sinful things as good things - we should always remember that while someone lives in sin and Jesus died for them too, Jesus died for us too because we are not any different from those who we look at and see the sin in them. If we can't love the sinner, we can't love ourselves. If the sinner won't deserve our love, we don't deserve any love from anyone either.

I would say, though, what you said in that quote is very much true in the sense that Christ's words and what is said in the Bible in the context of Christ is absolutely the ideal we should aim towards and we should give effort to meet that target. But that isn't what makes or breaks it.

(and I have to say what you wrote earlier in that longer post was very well written! So I'm not trying to correct you on any of that here - and I'm not trying to correct you with that quoted text either - I just mean this as digging down a bit deeper with what you wrote in that quote because the way it now is, and while it's basically a simple thing to understand and while it's important to also say how tight and firm one should be in their walk with Christ, I think it's also very important to look a bit into why we can't be perfect so that those who struggle won't lose all their hope)

 

[kevm3]

It will improve your life.

 

[appaws]

Not quite sure where you're going with this, but the sentiment that synchronicity was appreciating is theologically sound. God, through Jesus, says that the second greatest commandment, just after loving God, is to love your neighbor. Ostracization is not love. Judging someone for the splinter in their eye is not love.

Moderns have tried to create non-judgmental hippie Jesus because we want to do what we want to do. Nowhere does Christ modify the already existing Jewish understanding of sex and marriage...except in one instance, and that is to make it TOUGHER, as far as divorce, which the Temple Jews were quite lenient about (at least for men).

If you believe a person is dooming themselves to eternal punishment for a certain action...then is it "love" to say "OK, do your thing." Not really, just good feelings and conflict avoidance. Really loving your neighbor is helping them attain Heaven, even if they hate you for it.

But then again... If you could follow all the rules in the Bible you could as well be Jewish. Accepting God's authority and submitting to him is already what being Jewish is all about.

I'd say Christianity is about understanding God is the authority and a lot of his rules and his will is something you can't follow or aren't willing to follow - and there is the conflict. If God is the ultimate authority, you will be held accountable for that. Now, this doesn't mean you shouldn't strive to be what God wants you to be. It just means none of us is able to be that and that's why we need a Saviour to save us from this certain metaphysical destruction. And what's even better, this Saviour - when you put your trust in him - will give you more strength and will to be that better person. But again, you will never be completely free from the will to sin in this life. If you would, then the works of that Saviour would not be needed.

If Christianity would be about being a 100% good person who follows every rule in the Bible and never sins, then Christianity would be Judaism + having to believe in one another thing. It would be as hard as Judaism for us to follow plus one added thing to put on top of all that. It would not be a relief of any sort to anyone.

Of course this is not an excuse to continue sinning. You will naturally have a new perspective on sin and you will naturally have less will to sin and you will naturally sin less when you believe in Christ. If one hasn't changed their ways or thinking at all, the odds are one either doesn't really believe in it or one is dangerously close to stop believing, or maybe one is still taking extremely small baby steps towards the faith.

While it is true that we should be able to say sin is sin - and it would be dangerous to go and change the definition of sin and suddenly stop calling sinful things sinful things and at worst to start call sinful things as good things - we should always remember that while someone lives in sin and Jesus died for them too, Jesus died for us too because we are not any different from those who we look at and see the sin in them. If we can't love the sinner, we can't love ourselves. If the sinner won't deserve our love, we don't deserve any love from anyone either.

I would say, though, what you said in that quote is very much true in the sense that Christ's words and what is said in the Bible in the context of Christ is absolutely the ideal we should aim towards and we should give effort to meet that target. But that isn't what makes or breaks it.

(and I have to say what you wrote earlier in that longer post was very well written! So I'm not trying to correct you on any of that here - and I'm not trying to correct you with that quoted text either - I just mean this as digging down a bit deeper with what you wrote in that quote because the way it now is, and while it's basically a simple thing to understand and while it's important to also say how tight and firm one should be in their walk with Christ, I think it's also very important to look a bit into why we can't be perfect so that those who struggle won't lose all their hope)

Excellent post. People think orthodox Christians are being terribly mean and judgmental and trying to hold themselves out as perfect. Nothing could be further from the truth. The reason we need God is because we are so fucked up. That's why I laugh at the athiest types who get all worked up when some high-profile Christian is caught up in some shenanigans, as if that proves something. There is a reason why the sacrament of confession exists, and there is no limit to the number of times you can go...because we need it.