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WoW Loses 600,000 Subscribers, Sub Rate Dropping Faster Than Previous Expansions

Xavien

Member
Sep 13, 2006
3,509
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0
UK
Been playing WoW since US Beta, stopped playing near the end of TBC and then played for a while just Pre-Cata and a few months after.

Besides my time in TBC, the content i experienced for the few months before Cata was some of the best i ever have ever enjoyed in WoW (especially Arthas' Fight). However after Cata, i got to level 85, enjoyed some zones along the way (Vash'jir was a big highlight), but the "endgame" zone they give you was quite frankly boring. Going from TBC to WotLK to Cataclysm and thats the best they could come up with?

Being a tank, I also thought they made the heroics and raids too hard (and i remember TBC's heroics and raids), most who play WoW enjoy playing casually so going from WotLK-style heroics to cata-style heroics was a massive shock for many and probably resulting in many not achieving any progress. After several months of lack-of-progress many are getting tired of it. You can't let casuals into the raiding/heroics scene and then kick them out again, they'll just get pissed off and cancel their subs. As others have said, right now, theres no margin for error in heroic bosses, let alone raid bosses and theres going to come a point where people will look, realize they spent weeks/months achieving nothing and quit.

I quit in Febuary and now I'm looking forward to Guild Wars 2. I don't think i'll get bitten by the WoW-bug ever again. I really wish mmo's didn't rely on grind grind grind.
 

Jin

Member
Mar 21, 2007
1,407
27
1,380
I lost interest in Cata because it felt like your favorite album remix by someone else. And getting burned out contributed to it.
 

guina

Member
Aug 31, 2005
246
0
0
The reason people are quiting/taking a break is because there is a whole lot of nothing to do in WoW right now. Thanks in part to the bizarre new raid lock, that reduced alot what the hardcore playerbase can do every week, and alot to do with the delayed raid content that was supposed to be on live servers already, but was postponed to patch 4.2 .

The shrinking playerbase mirrors exactly what was hapening in my Guild and my server in the past few weeks. Some of them will be back for patch 4.2 but not all of them.
 
Aug 28, 2008
13,373
6
0
Loxley said:
In other news, Blizzard unveils "Titan" at Blizzcon 2011 ;)

It's been said for years now, but I'll just repeat it, the only thing that could topple WoW is whatever the hell Blizzard follows it up with. I'm sure internally as every month goes by they're starting to allocate more and more resources and man-power to "Titan".

Anyway, some of you are acting like this is the first time WoW has started to lose subscribers like this before. The key point here is how quickly they lost that number of subs, not the number itself. And as Morhaime (apparently) said, they'll just shift their content focus to get it out at a faster pace to adjust. So some of these "The mighty have fallen", or "It was fun while it lasted" posts are a bit weird...

They also announce a 2014 release with it being pushed back to 2018.
 

BurningNad

Member
Apr 13, 2011
1,015
7
930
www.twitch.tv
I stopped playing in early February, started with the open beta for vanilla. I recently got a 7 day free trial in my email, and was able to resist the urge to reinstall. That's how I know WoW is faltering... it took everything someone had to get me off that damn game. I'll never go back.
 

Sophia

Member
Feb 8, 2008
23,132
1
1,020
guina said:
The reason people are quiting/taking a break is because there is a whole lot of nothing to do in WoW right now. Thanks in part to the bizarre new raid lock, that reduced alot what the hardcore playerbase can do every week, and alot to do with the delayed raid content that was supposed to be on live servers already, but was postponed to patch 4.2 .

The shrinking playerbase mirrors exactly what was hapening in my Guild and my server in the past few weeks. Some of them will be back for patch 4.2 but not all of them.

This is pretty much it. I'm on an older server and I'm fully raid geared. There's no way to get any Heroic raids done on this server, so all I really have to do is level alts and show up for farming on raids.
 

PsychoSoldier

Banned
Mar 27, 2010
4,192
0
0
It's not surprising that a 6 year old game has people no longer wanting to play it. It's just the way of things, ultimately, though obviously the glacial pace of content release hasn't helped.

It would be silly to attribute the loss in subs to the things I didn't like, but I will say that the worst things for me was that they seemed to set the bar a bit too high for heroics and didn't provide us with new 60-80 content. New content doesn't mean shit when you have spend 20 levels wading through (now very boring) old content afterwards.
 

2San

Member
Dec 11, 2009
9,851
0
905
The Netherlands
Izayoi said:
I'm actually playing the Korean version right now. Those are screenshots that I took. The political system, if that's what you're talking about, IS in the game already. Guilds fight each other for control over the various territories in the game. Controlling a territory lets you control the PvP, taxes, monster spawns, and tons of other stuff in that particular area.
With GvG system. I mean the ability to declare war on other guilds. So you don't have to go through a tedious request pvp system(I am aware you can force a PK in certain area's) and pk without any penalties. Honestly I can understand games wanting to have PvE servers and such, but never understood the disdain against a consensual mass world pvp system. Don't worry though, while I'm not particularly hyped. I am following the game, with the intention of buying.

ArcheAge looks like another beast though, I still can't believe I have never heard of this game till this thread. Still keeping my hype in check, doesn't even have a western publisher. :|
 

antiquegamer

Member
Apr 14, 2009
5,383
0
0
Washington
www.microforever.com
Xavien said:
Been playing WoW since US Beta, stopped playing near the end of TBC and then played for a while just Pre-Cata and a few months after.

Besides my time in TBC, the content i experienced for the few months before Cata was some of the best i ever have ever enjoyed in WoW (especially Arthas' Fight). However after Cata, i got to level 85, enjoyed some zones along the way (Vash'jir was a big highlight), but the "endgame" zone they give you was quite frankly boring. Going from TBC to WotLK to Cataclysm and thats the best they could come up with?

Being a tank, I also thought they made the heroics and raids too hard (and i remember TBC's heroics and raids), most who play WoW enjoy playing casually so going from WotLK-style heroics to cata-style heroics was a massive shock for many and probably resulting in many not achieving any progress. After several months of lack-of-progress many are getting tired of it. You can't let casuals into the raiding/heroics scene and then kick them out again, they'll just get pissed off and cancel their subs. As others have said, right now, theres no margin for error in heroic bosses, let alone raid bosses and theres going to come a point where people will look, realize they spent weeks/months achieving nothing and quit.

I quit in Febuary and now I'm looking forward to Guild Wars 2. I don't think i'll get bitten by the WoW-bug ever again. I really wish mmo's didn't rely on grind grind grind.

This is the same sentiment echo by people at my work that used to play wow, heck they got me to go back and dabble in Cata for a few months. I just didn't have time for the grind so I sort of quit but they all complain about the instance being way too hard for them.

I ran WotK with them and it was easy for me as an old timer and I can understand how this change must be a big shock for people playing WotLK. They complain about long grind, super hard heroic fight ... I told them that how we used to do it back in the day. Raid would be broken up into section and we would go into instance and wipe for weeks before we get a boss kill .... they just don't have stomach for this kind of progression and left in drove.

All the people at my work that drag me back to WoW all quit recently, two went to play Rift and the others play LoTR. So this news about declining sub is not surprising.
 

Izayoi

Banned
Jul 25, 2010
18,053
1
0
2San said:
With GvG system. I mean the ability to declare war on other guilds. So you don't have to go through a tedious request pvp system(I am aware you can force a PK in certain area's) and pk without any penalties.
But you can do all of that. That's what I was trying to explain. And there are no penalties for PKing, I don't know where you heard that. I PK people all of the time and have never received a penalty for it.
 

Mr Killemgood

Member
Oct 29, 2006
566
0
0
World of Warcraft could easily re-invigorate players. Its just not going to happen with new expansions.

F2P is the way of the future. For me, its hard to pay for an MMO like WoW when I could play LORTO or DDO for free. If I like the game, I buy in. If I step away for a few months because of other games, I'm not paying for it. I can come back at any time, and pay when I feel like it.

Yes, neither game nor my current infatuation: Battlestar Galactica Online are as robust as WoW, but I didn't get accidentally charged $45 for a quarter of WoW despite not playing for months like my wife just did.
 

2San

Member
Dec 11, 2009
9,851
0
905
The Netherlands
Izayoi said:
But you can do all of that. That's what I was trying to explain. And there are no penalties for PKing, I don't know where you heard that. I PK people all of the time and have never received a penalty for it.
Oh seriously? Getting proper info on the game is hard. :O Just to be sure, I am talking about the ability to kill people in other guilds anywhere in the world(except for safe area's like towns).
Mr Killemgood said:
F2P is the way of the future. For me, its hard to pay for an MMO like WoW when I could play LORTO or DDO for free. If I like the game, I buy in. If I step away for a few months because of other games, I'm not paying for it. I can come back at any time, and pay when I feel like it.
Imo the best model is just a monthly subscription that covers the cost of the game itself and future expansion. So no one has an unfair advantage.
 

water_wendi

Water is not wet!
Oct 8, 2006
19,066
0
0
This is anecdotal evidence but everyone i know that has been playing the game since launch all unsubbed a couple months ago.
 

Vespene

Member
Dec 15, 2008
1,391
0
865
Los Angeles
The action bar MMORPG is done. Guild Wars 2, TOR and all this new stuff coming out this year is great, but its late to the party. People are just tired. I foresee WoW losing its base to around a solid 6 million. That's great on by itself, but it will mainly be sustained by the hardcore US and EU players along with an immense base of players from China and Brazil, where there's nothing better to play and its relatively new.
 
D

Deleted member 17706

Unconfirmed Member
GT Vespene said:
The action bar MMORPG is done. Guild Wars 2, TOR and all this new stuff coming out this year is great, but its late to the party. People are just tired. I foresee WoW losing its base to around a solid 6 million. That's great on by itself, but it will mainly be sustained by the hardcore US and EU players along with an immense base of players from China and Brazil, where there's nothing better to play and its relatively new.

Why do people love to make ridiculous statements claiming that certain genres are dead?
 

Vespene

Member
Dec 15, 2008
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865
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Because its the truth. There's nothing to expand on the genre. The action bar MMORPG was made to address one thing: latency. That was back in 2004. Over half a decade ago.

MMOs aren't done by a long shot, just this type of MMO is.
 

markot

Banned
Aug 21, 2008
18,838
0
0
I think they just need to get content out quicker, of all sorts. And redoing old dungeons doesnt count >.<
 
D

Deleted member 17706

Unconfirmed Member
GT Vespene said:
Because its the truth. There's nothing to expand on the genre. The action bar MMORPG was made to address one thing: latency. That was back in 2004. Over half a decade ago.

MMOs aren't done by a long shot, just this type of MMO is.

And why is it dead? Because you want it to be?

Seriously, what is your criteria for this statement.
 

bluestuff

Member
Feb 11, 2009
787
0
0
Zefah said:
Why do people love to make ridiculous statements claiming that certain genres are dead?
rts, fighting games, and adventure games are dead to. What you haven't heard???
 

Alexios

Cores, shaders and BIOS oh my!
Jan 30, 2010
15,605
5,292
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metacouncil.com
Because its the truth. There's nothing to expand on the genre. The action bar MMORPG was made to address one thing: latency.
Just like anything turn based is done because we now have teh processing powerz to do real time action am i rite?

Diablo 3's gonna have an action bar, you know, much like Diablo 2 did. It's not a latency issue, especially since it's not an MMORPG and action-based small-scale co-op has been possible for many years now. Even on consoles, with the likes of PSO and Monster Hunter. It's just what they chose.

Point & click makes it easy to get for not-so-hardcore people, not every MMORPG is gonna become Ninja Gaiden Online just because it's, in theory, possible.
 

Vespene

Member
Dec 15, 2008
1,391
0
865
Los Angeles
Zefah said:
And why is it dead? Because you want it to be?

Seriously, what is your criteria for this statement.


Did I ever say it was dead? I said "done." It's run its course. There's no more innovation to be found with the current game mechanics possible using the action bar systems. Blizzard devs themselves have admitted this. They've clearly stated that gameplay mechanics improvements in WoW are gonna be minor because the way lag-compensating interfaces limits them. They've said numerous times the mechanics are outdated and that the only way to push the MMO genre forward is to move away from the WoW systems.

Fields like MMO-FPS, MMO platforming are the ways of the future. There's a reason why Blizz's new MMO will be FPS.
 

-bakalhau-

Member
Sep 16, 2009
1,612
0
860
V_Arnold said:
In case you forgot, Cataclysm is also the biggest expansion by far. By far. You know, that two totally revamped contintent. And that 5 zones each tell a unique story, no need to feel a connection between them (although there is), because they are designed as unique chapters. And they are the best zones story/quest-wise so far, way better than the already awesome WOTLK/BC zones.


But the problem is the 2 revamped continents weren't a part of the expansion... New content for high-level players was less than every expansion released before.

Each zone told a unique story pretty much like Northrend imo. I think a lot of zones tell a unique story, even beyond the new zones and WotLK zones. I have a problem with how Blizzard did these new zones. I always liked that you could follow the story on a quest hub and if you didn't want to do the quests anymore, you could do the ones you wanted and move on to another quest hub near it, and YOU decided how to progress through a zone. On Cataclysm, they force a SINGLE progression line in which if you don't do ALL 10 quests here, you won't unlock the next 10 quests somewhere else and you're out of quests to do in the ENTIRE zone. By the second time you're doing the zone it gets boring as hell. In every other before Cataclysm I could do 50 quests at a certain hub, but on another playthrough I could do a new, completely different 50 quests on another hub on the same zone. It felt different, it felt bigger and more appropriate to a MMO. I'm looking at you Mount Hyjal, Deepholm and Vashj'ir.

As far as being the best, it's personal preference. I felt the Lich King story was much deeper, and allowed insight into very personal moments in Arthas's life. Being 10 levels of story helped a lot. Many more side stories, and a deeper main story.

I enjoyed Cataclysm a lot so far. I don't think it touches WotLK unfortunately.
 

SillyEskimo

Member
Apr 14, 2011
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555
I lasted 5.5 years into EverQuest and that's about the same amount of time I've put into WoW. However, it's a hell of a lot easier to play WoW causally or part time than EQ ever was. Also, WoW has not experienced a mass exodus like EQ did when new games came out. Back then you had entire guilds quit playing at once and move on to other games. Ironically, WoW was the death kneel of my EverQuest days because every pretty much quit at once. The good news is, much like Everquest, WoW will continue to turn a profit with 1/100th the amount of people currently playing. They will just consolidate servers and such when the time comes. Hell, EverQuest has, like 16 expansions or something equally absurd. That game is still going strong, even if less people are still actually playing it. WoW will likely follow the same path.

At the moment, WoW is still the king by a long shot so I wouldn't be etching the tombstone just yet. I look forward to Warhammer 40,000: Dark Millennium Online as my next (hopefully) 5.5 year MMORPG. Until then, I'll continue to play WoW on a casual basis and eagerly look forward to additional content and expansions for the game.
 

Alexios

Cores, shaders and BIOS oh my!
Jan 30, 2010
15,605
5,292
1,410
https://twitter.com/Agnates
metacouncil.com
Lag compensating will still be needed if you want to attract the audience that doesn't have 24Mbit+ connections, which is going to remain sizable for a long time. What Blizzard's own engine that was built in the 00s limits them from doing in their own game means little about the whole genre. Shit, it's not even a genre, it's a vague style, you can have it in many different genres, including single player titles. I think Guild Wars 2 is doing a few different things, a more reactive battle style for some classes, while retaining the variety of skills an action bar allows you to have in a more relaxed form of play. Just because in theory you can make Ninja Gaiden Online with today's connections doesn't mean you should, or that it's all you can do, or that if you do it it's going to satisfy the same type of gamer and thus can replace what's there now.

But hey if you also consider every, for example, turn based game to be the same, outside visuals, since the 80s, or every JRPG to be the same too, that's up to you. Other people appreciate the differences and new ideas and mechanics presented by different studios and series in the same vague category.

If you just look at things from extremely vague points of view then one would say you can't really do much different to Oblivion for an open world first person RPG either, or much different to Planetside for a FPSRPG, or whatever else. Of course, people who actually play these will tend to enjoy different settings, combat systems, spell mechanics, etc, if done well enough, to not really care that it doesn't fit someone's definition of "advancing" a genre beyond what's already done or whatever else. Good games are good.
 
D

Deleted member 17706

Unconfirmed Member
GT Vespene said:
Did I ever say it was dead? I said "done." It's run its course. There's no more innovation to be found with the current game mechanics possible using the action bar systems. Blizzard devs themselves have admitted this. They've clearly stated that gameplay mechanics improvements in WoW are gonna be minor because the way lag-compensating interfaces limits them. They've said numerous times the mechanics are outdated and that the only way to push the MMO genre forward is to move away from the WoW systems.

Fields like MMO-FPS, MMO platforming are the ways of the future. There's a reason why Blizz's new MMO will be FPS.

While we may not be living in a world where most people are using dial-up modems to connect to the Internet anymore, latency is still a big issue, especially in MMORPGs. You're lucky to get under 100ms pings in pretty much any MMORPG, and in WoW specifically, I don't think I've ever found a server that offered less than 200ms pings. That kind of latency doesn't exactly lend itself to fast-paced action. It is possible, though. Hell, people playing Call of Duty on consoles are probably playing with 250+ ms pings and they don't complain. The lag is masked relatively well in those games.

Anyway, what is it about the action bar style that you think is limiting? The action bar just represents a selection of abilities available to the player. If all of those abilities were instant cast, had no cool down, and shot out a missile projectile that did damage to whatever enemy it hit, how is that any different than a FPS-style game? There's nothing about action bars that limits innovation.
 

DiscoJer

Member
Sep 26, 2009
12,299
776
1,030
St. Louis
Mr Killemgood said:
World of Warcraft could easily re-invigorate players. Its just not going to happen with new expansions.

F2P is the way of the future. For me, its hard to pay for an MMO like WoW when I could play LORTO or DDO for free. If I like the game, I buy in. If I step away for a few months because of other games, I'm not paying for it. I can come back at any time, and pay when I feel like it.

I disagree. F2P has really ruined LOTRO.

That's not to say that LOTRO already wasn't ruined. It was. But the answers to all the problems LOTRO has now seems to be the cash shop, and the CS signs everywhere have destroyed the thing it still had going for it - the atmosphere (if you could overlook that there are only like 4 models of each NPC sex/race combo)

You can get some short term benefits, like more people, as people come to try it. But in every single F2P game I've played, it always ends up with the company squeezing as much money as possible out of a smaller and smaller population.

Case in point: Legendary Items. These have sucked since they were introduced, because they were basically like playing the lottery. Want the skill bonus (legacy) you really wanted (or need, really)? Try getting dozens of them and make you will find the one you want.

And then of course, you have to throw them away whenever better ones come out, or when the level cap goes up.

How Turbine could have solved this? Make them like Skirmish soldiers. Not only could you customize them how you want, they would grow with you, like how they were originally sold. Bilbo didn't throw away Sting after he leveled up, did he?

How they "solved it"? They sell scrolls in the stories, so you can now simply buy the legacies you want. Only like $8 or something crazy. And of course, you'll need to buy more scrolls, since you need to raise the tier (basically how many points it takes to improve it). So you need to spend probably $100 to get the Legendary weapon you want.

And of course, come the next expansion, you'll be throwing those weapons out. And then out again once more, when they introduce lower age weapons (Third Age, Second Age, First Age) for the level cap.

Sure, theoretically you can earn these scrolls in game. But the rate is so slow it's basically a lot of work. As much work as it used to be, if not more so, grinding to get lucky.
 

Izayoi

Banned
Jul 25, 2010
18,053
1
0
2San said:
Oh seriously? Getting proper info on the game is hard. :O Just to be sure, I am talking about the ability to kill people in other guilds anywhere in the world(except for safe area's like towns).
Pretty much. Safe spots, like towns, and the very low level areas are off-limits, but everywhere else is fair game.

We have to be careful not to start fights that we can't finish because we're very small, so we typically only kill non-guilded people, but I did kill a guilded person by accident and ended up getting hunted for the next few hours.

It was entertaining, to say the least.

And yeah, this is all information we discovered ourselves through trial and error pretty much. The only real info source for the game is a Korean site, and Google translate is spotty at best.
 

Bromeliad

Neo Member
Apr 8, 2011
59
0
0
Brazil said:
Every action bar-based MMO will always play the same. People can lie to themselves all they want, but Guild Wars 2 will not be different.

Guild Wars I played different from most other action bar-based MMOs. The quick cooldowns and dynamic mana pools, plus the fact that you were pretty much always in a great big party fighting another great big party, made it a lot snappier and faster than any others on the market. Plus being limited to 8 powers made it almost like a CCG such as Magic The Gathering, when you needed to collect abilities and think about which meshed with which, and with the party as a whole. Maybe it was stretching the definition of an action bar-based MMO, being not nearly as sprawling as those usually are, but I still hold it up as an example of that type of gameplay implemented very very well, and differently from pretty much every other game on the market.

GW2 is looking pretty darn unique too, what with the increased focus on movement and rolling around and stuff, and the fast gameplay preserved. It looks almost like an action game where you "fire" the abilities by pressing the hotkey for the action bar. My guess is, like its predecessor, if you're actually clicking the ability in the action bar you're doing it wrong.
 

alphaNoid

Banned
Mar 8, 2010
8,322
0
0
Nirolak said:
Well, there's RIFT, but I think it's mostly game fatigue, which is why they're really ramping up the new MMO team.

Guild Wars 2 and SWTOR will be their real issues in the immediate future though, especially Guild Wars 2 given its business model and gigantic team size/huge amount of content.
Just an FYI in regards to 'ramping up the new MMO team'. Its not happening like that at all. Project Titan is still only being worked on by a team of < 20 guys, mainly sr software engineers who are still ironing out the code for the framework. These guys have high level clearance to a room locked away from everyone else. Not even the art guys have been brought in to start on concepts for Titan, thats how far off it is.

Think, like .. 2015 (I'm not joking). I cannot elaborate any further but Blizzard is so far from even 'starting' on Titan it isn't even funny. For reference, SC2 was 100% playable and nearly done in 2008, yet it baked for 2 solid years longer for balance and testing. Titan hasn't even started yet, the software team working on didn't even know what the game was they were designing when they started. Higher ups basically gave them requirements for the framework and thats that.

Since then, "Project Titan" has come to fruition and its existence known. I will end with this tidbit though, Blizzard has been on record saying that Titan would be a new IP. Its not, its a spin off of an existing franchise ... and they're playing into that to elude to a new IP.

Its going to be what Blizzard fans want.

There is no more information I can give. Take everything I said with a grain of salt .. decide whether or not you want to believe. I only know what I know.

edit. Regarding Guild Wars 2.. HELL YEA! I'm all over that day one. Also, in context of this thread ... WoW is what? 5 or is it 6 years old now? Don't be shocked if people are finally growing tired.
 

PhoenixDark

Banned
Sep 25, 2005
68,134
3
0
34
I've noticed a lot of folks taking longer and longer breaks recently. Personally I've found it hard to get back into the game. Cataclysm was very fun - great zones, challenging dungeons, fun quest lines, etc. Once I got to the raiding aspect I felt burned out almost immediately. Just didn't feel like grinding through another raid, again.

Recently I've run into some guild drama (ie not getting invited to raids) and I just...don't care anymore. There was a time when guild drama took up so much of my time and I liked it. Now I can spend hours on the computer and not even think of signing into WoW.

Been playing since 2006.
 
Apr 23, 2006
2,181
0
0
I must be bucking the trend. I unsubbed a couple months ago, and re subbed in advance of the Firelands patch. Felt good to have a break, but without this game I feel like I never get anything done. Fake accomplishments are better than no accomplishments, I suppose.

While I wait, I've been playing a new ret Paladin on the opposing faction (Alliance). I'm taking the Kalimdor path this time around, and I'm loving it. I sincerely doubt there are many people out there who would deny that the reworking of the old world was the very best part of Cataclysm so far.

Well, at least until whatever raid introduces the next Old God.
 

fizzelopeguss

Banned
Nov 1, 2007
6,320
0
0
Only worth playing at expansion launches, and i really enjoyed levelling a new char.

But the whole late game now screams at being designed to extract as many dollars from its addicted cat ass audience as possible.

And smaller paid content packs? :lol get rid of the fee and i might be interested, but with a fee as well? fuck off blizzard.
 

Vespene

Member
Dec 15, 2008
1,391
0
865
Los Angeles
An action-bar MMO is a game that relies on global cooldowns and dozens of skills per player to achieve complexity. Other genras achieve this by having complex mechanics, such as combo systems in fighting games, tight controls and zoom aiming on shooters, or twisted physics in other genras (Portal 2, 3D mario games).

Current MMOs try to do things other genras do by throwing more and more action bar skills to the already saturated character systems. Are action bar MMOs dead? Of course not, just like FPSs and RTSs are still alive today decades after their inceptions. But the novelty is gone. You can't do a better action bar MMO than WoW cause you just can't evolve the action bar MMO further.

WoW will decline steadily as people get tired of the genre, and that's a good thing for everyone. The MMO needs to find new ways to game besides the D&D skill set RPG.
 

FLEABttn

Banned
Mar 30, 2005
8,219
0
0
36
NOVA
Mr Killemgood said:
World of Warcraft could easily re-invigorate players. Its just not going to happen with new expansions.

F2P is the way of the future.

I didn't stop playing WoW because I couldn't afford $13 a month. I stopped playing because it was no longer fun.

If it were free, I still wouldn't be playing.
 

Htown

STOP SHITTING ON MY MOTHER'S HEADSTONE
Feb 19, 2008
44,007
7
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DiscoJer said:
Case in point: Legendary Items. These have sucked since they were introduced, because they were basically like playing the lottery. Want the skill bonus (legacy) you really wanted (or need, really)? Try getting dozens of them and make you will find the one you want.

And then of course, you have to throw them away whenever better ones come out, or when the level cap goes up.

How Turbine could have solved this? Make them like Skirmish soldiers. Not only could you customize them how you want, they would grow with you, like how they were originally sold. Bilbo didn't throw away Sting after he leveled up, did he?

How they "solved it"? They sell scrolls in the stories, so you can now simply buy the legacies you want. Only like $8 or something crazy. And of course, you'll need to buy more scrolls, since you need to raise the tier (basically how many points it takes to improve it). So you need to spend probably $100 to get the Legendary weapon you want.

And of course, come the next expansion, you'll be throwing those weapons out. And then out again once more, when they introduce lower age weapons (Third Age, Second Age, First Age) for the level cap.

Sure, theoretically you can earn these scrolls in game. But the rate is so slow it's basically a lot of work. As much work as it used to be, if not more so, grinding to get lucky.
That's not really true. Deconstructing a legendary item that you've gotten to level 30+ lets you take a legacy of your choice from that weapon. You're most likely going to have your legendary slots full of weapons gaining xp at all times anyway, now that's actually useful for things besides deconstructing for relics.
 

Jangocube

Banned
Sep 22, 2009
3,016
0
0
Played since release, ended up quitting for good about 4 months ago. I was on and off for the last 3 years or so with the game.

It's just the same old same old. Not to mention that my favorite class turned to complete shit in PvP (Elemental Shaman), it made the decision easier.

Was an amazing game for a couple of years though, that says a lot.
 

Eiolon

Member
Jul 17, 2005
2,121
0
0
SillyEskimo said:
They will just consolidate servers and such when the time comes.

Blizzard won't even need to do that. The entire game is becoming instance based and all the battlegroups are interconnecting eventually. Basically, you don't have to go outside the cities to play the game anymore. Just queue and it doesn't matter if your server is deader than Osama bin Laden, you will still find people to play with.
 

Einbroch

Banned
Mar 24, 2009
22,818
1
0
Lafayette, IN
www.twitter.com
FLEABttn said:
I didn't stop playing WoW because I couldn't afford $13 a month. I stopped playing because it was no longer fun.

If it were free, I still wouldn't be playing.
I would be, if only to walk around Orgrimmar and chat with friends. Maybe run a heroic once and a while.
 
Dec 1, 2004
26,790
1
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South Carolina
www.neogaf.com
Ferrio said:
The main issue is blizz is stalling out right now big time in game updates.

Not really, they're putting new raids and such out as fast they've always have, more or less. The two reasons MOST responsible are...

1. The speeding up of the effort part of the game far faster, outstripping the traditionally careful and thoughtful Blizzard way

2. Heroics and raids are actually hard again mode for mode, something we ain't seen since Ulduar.

People get to raid ready VERY fast (as Wrath encouraged them to), then found themselves up against bosses that required far more teamwork, practice, self-improvement, and roadblock-enduring in the BC tradition of "You are guarenteed an oppotunity to be here, but NOT success."

This is jarring, especially to those spoiled by Wrath. People just don't log on any more; add in fatigue and well, boom.
 

ToyMachine228

Member
Jun 13, 2004
15,197
2
1,540
34
USA
www.mayorreynolds.tv
Maybe because...Cataclysm sucks? Seriously. The entire expansion has no direction at all and the content is generic. Blizzard denies it, but all the "real" talent at Blizzard has moved on to Diablo III and Titan. They blew their load with Wrath of the Lich King and now they're just going to try to make as much as they can from WoW for as long as they can with sub-par content from the B-team.
 

Cipherr

Member
Dec 15, 2007
28,065
1
1,025
Kansas City Missouri
Well duh. They could no longer keep it interesting. By this point it has run its course.

Slayven said:
Go F2P WoW, you know it is the next step.


No, not at 11.4 million subs. There are MMO's with userbases below 100k that are still paid subscriptions. WoW is millions and millions and millions and millions of players away from even having to consider f2p.

And a hearty 'lol' @ actionbar gaming being stale and done while 'fps' games are teh future. Please.... stop speaking.
 

LowParry

Member
Nov 30, 2007
21,051
3
1,225
Utah
I can honestly say, as much as WoW turned sour for the player (me), I really enjoyed the music of the game. The Lore of the game I think has gone way out of control at this point. I just didn't care for it after Wrath. (Best thing to come out of Wrath was Ulduar. Best instance in the entire game, imo).
 

Cipherr

Member
Dec 15, 2007
28,065
1
1,025
Kansas City Missouri
CcrooK said:
I can honestly say, as much as WoW turned sour for the player (me), I really enjoyed the music of the game. The Lore of the game I think has gone way out of control at this point. I just didn't care for it after Wrath. (Best thing to come out of Wrath was Ulduar. Best instance in the entire game, imo).


Its interesting, I loved the lore up until the LK died. All of that stuff that continued from War 3 was absolutely the cream of the crop for me. I loved seeing that story play out with Illidan and Arthas and the like. But I couldnt bring myself to care at all about anything happening in Cataclysm. Felt a little like DBZ after killing arthas.....Its like OMFG we just killed the most powerful motherfuck ever, only to have an even stronger guy appear....lets all spend the next 20 episodes (12 months) powering up (grinding raids) so we can do it all over again.

Fuck that, and fuck deathwing.
 

mikeGFG

Banned
Nov 17, 2005
5,009
0
0
twitter.com
Zefah said:
Why do people love to make ridiculous statements claiming that certain genres are dead?

Warcraft IS the action-bar mmo genre, if WoW is declining, the 'genre' is declining

Many genres have come and gone in shorter periods of time. Even when we talk about MMOs, we have to consider player burnout; literally players exhuasted because they play the game too damn much. In what other genre is there player burnout? This effect exacerbates the WoW decline and its not farfetched to assume it also affects the genre.

You know, (this a huge rant, but...) I was watching the game informer video piece on Volition studios. And before watching, I didnt know they had done Descent series, so the video was enlightening on a few levels. What I took away from their history on Descent was how quickly certain genres of games ceased to be relevant. IIRC, they were working on Descent 3 or 4, and at the time Volition was riding on the success of the first two games, all but certain that the series was viable for the foreseeable future. But before they could event get Descent 4 out the door the market changed: new hardware was available, player taste changed, new genres were taking hold, and old genres were fading out. In the middle of production, the space shooter was effectively finished. Even Volition didn't see that one coming.

When I see Blizzard's new strategy of faster content, or more dungeons or whatever, I'm thinking its too late: the game hit its critical apex in Burning Crusade (and likely its commerical one in Wrath), its too late. And like I stated earlier, because Warcraft has such a massive influence on the genre (the genre as we know it), I would assume the genre likely declining too-- in which case it's probably too late for Star Wars and Guild Wars 2. Though, I guess I'll have to wait and see what actually happens to the market in the next few years, especially leading up to Blizzards next-generation MMO. The market could really use a new paradigm; not more cooldowns action-bars. IMO
 

C.Dark.DN

Banned
Sep 22, 2006
28,316
0
0
GT Vespene said:
An action-bar MMO is a game that relies on global cooldowns and dozens of skills per player to achieve complexity. Other genras achieve this by having complex mechanics, such as combo systems in fighting games, tight controls and zoom aiming on shooters, or twisted physics in other genras (Portal 2, 3D mario games).

Current MMOs try to do things other genras do by throwing more and more action bar skills to the already saturated character systems. Are action bar MMOs dead? Of course not, just like FPSs and RTSs are still alive today decades after their inceptions. But the novelty is gone. You can't do a better action bar MMO than WoW cause you just can't evolve the action bar MMO further.

WoW will decline steadily as people get tired of the genre, and that's a good thing for everyone. The MMO needs to find new ways to game besides the D&D skill set RPG.
Compare Half Life to uncharted. There's a ton of things to improve that you can't think of yet because it hasn't be innovated yet.

My definition of action bar is being able to use multiple abilities. Maybe it's best there isn't 30 per character, but you can innovate it.

You mentioned platforming. They can mix that in there like they did Uncharted. I'd like to be able to climb mountains and through dungeons and shit.

Fantasy worlds interest people and you need multiple abilities. They will find a way to make it work.