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Sports Wrasslin' Thread 20XX |OT| New Age WrestleGAF

Xaero Gravity

Formerly 'Xaero Testosterone'
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People are acting like Seth is the only one to do this. Have people already forgotten all the shit Roman said when he was on top?
 

DKehoe

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People are acting like Seth is the only one to do this. Have people already forgotten all the shit Roman said when he was on top?
I don’t recall Roman being quite like this. The worst example was Seth throwing Moxley/Ambrose under the bus after he left. He also lost a twitter argument to Will Ospreay, someone who openly admits he is terrible at Twitter.
 

NickFire

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People are acting like Seth is the only one to do this. Have people already forgotten all the shit Roman said when he was on top?
I feel bad for Seth. He's one of my favorite wrestlers still, but only in a nostalgic way right now. They cut the legs out from under him twice now, and relaly damaged his character. First by banning the curb stomp at the worst possible time (at least he has that back), and more recently by pigeon holing him as that crowd loving, this is for you, you are why I am good, boring old good guy shtick that might sell a lot of kids sized T-shirts, but bores the crap out of adults.

I kind of hope he leaves WWE for AEW. I'd like to see a less scripted version of him.
 

DKehoe

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I feel bad for Seth. He's one of my favorite wrestlers still, but only in a nostalgic way right now. They cut the legs out from under him twice now, and relaly damaged his character. First by banning the curb stomp at the worst possible time (at least he has that back), and more recently by pigeon holing him as that crowd loving, this is for you, you are why I am good, boring old good guy shtick that might sell a lot of kids sized T-shirts, but bores the crap out of adults.

I kind of hope he leaves WWE for AEW. I'd like to see a less scripted version of him.
Having him cower from Wyatt really made him look terrible. Top babyfaces should not be doing that.

Speaking of which...

 
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dream

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People are acting like Seth is the only one to do this. Have people already forgotten all the shit Roman said when he was on top?
For me, the difference is Roman actually delivered in the ring. Seth has been coasting on the fumes of Tyler a Black for years now, yet he seems to think he should be mentioned in the same breath as the Okadas, Omegas, and Ortons of the world. Middling work from a guy who’s apparently a pussy both on and off-camera is utterly unbecoming of a top guy.
 
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brap

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NWA was classic boomer shit this week
THE ROCK AND ROLL EXPRESS WAS ON
 

Dthomp

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Is it wrong I want to see Jericho just go all in on them? At this point in his life, he clearly is just boozing and soaking up the AEW money, dude gives no fucks. Where's my popcorn
 

DKehoe

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Is it wrong I want to see Jericho just go all in on them? At this point in his life, he clearly is just boozing and soaking up the AEW money, dude gives no fucks. Where's my popcorn
I dunno, he seems to be enjoying his work in AEW and New Japan. I guess because he's getting more creative freedom. It doesn't seem like he's just coasting.
 

brap

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Jeriboomer's promo hype package video thing was pretty funny. I like how they used some old hardcore CZW footage for Moxley's thing. Decent ep.
 

oagboghi2

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For me, the difference is Roman actually delivered in the ring. Seth has been coasting on the fumes of Tyler a Black for years now, yet he seems to think he should be mentioned in the same breath as the Okadas, Omegas, and Ortons of the world. Middling work from a guy who’s apparently a pussy both on and off-camera is utterly unbecoming of a top guy.
He is that good though. There is no reason to pretend he is a bad wrestler
 

DKehoe

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He is that good though. There is no reason to pretend he is a bad wrestler
He is very good but the problem is he was saying there’s no one close to being as consistently excellent as he is. Ospreay put himself forward as being on that level and Rollins acted like this was inconceivable. But Rollins hasn’t had a particularly great year whereas Ospreay’s has been incredible. The Shingo Takagi and Dragon Lee BOSJ matches were 4 days apart from each other, the Okada and Ibushi G1 matches were 2 days apart from each other. He’s just been ridiculously good. Not to act like the Observer’s ratings are the gospel when it comes like wrestling opinions, but all 4 of those matches got at least 5 stars. Rollins can talk himself up all he wants. He’s really talented and should have a high opinion of himself. But if that comes at the expense of knocking others to put himself over, especially people who have been performing at a higher level than him, then that’s where people are gong to take issue. How many truly great matches has he had this year?
 
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Dthomp

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He is very good but the problem is he was saying there’s no one close to being as consistently excellent as he is. Ospreay put himself forward as being on that level and Rollins acted like this was inconceivable. But Rollins hasn’t had a particularly great year whereas Ospreay’s has been incredible. The Shingo Takagi and Dragon Lee BOSJ matches were 4 days apart from each other, the Okada and Ibushi G1 matches were 2 days apart from each other. He’s just been ridiculously good. Not to act like the Observer’s ratings are the gospel when it comes like wrestling opinions, but all 4 of those matches got at least 5 stars. Rollins can talk himself up all he wants. He’s really talented and should have a high opinion of himself. But if that comes at the expense of knocking others to put himself over, especially people who have been performing at a higher level than him, then that’s where people are gong to take issue. How many truly great matches has he had this year?
That's my thing with Seth. I know he is capable of putting on a great match...but for the life of me I can't remember the last time he actually did. Ego is good, blind ego, not as good. It takes two in the ring to make something memorable, very few guys are skilled the way Bryan Danielson, AJ Styles, Okada, Omega, (I'm missing many here) that can go in there with anybody and make them look good. Seth is super athletic, and has I guess an ok look? and I know the cringey catchphrase stuff is more WWE I think then him, but that's all really lame too.
 

shoplifter

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AEW ratings will continue to slip with their thin roster of small guys

Cody and Jericho are the only stars they have right now
The quarters showed that the biggest drops were the PP/Dark Order quarter (-150k) and the Spears/Cutler match (-50k). The show started out over 960k viewers. NXT didn't appear to actually steal *any* appreciable number of viewers even with those huge drops, as it started out just over 800k and dropped to 769k mid-show, before getting a very big overrun due to people tuning in for whatever procedural is supposed to start at 10pm.

It just doesn't appear that more than a fraction of the audience cares about both shows at all, which Dave said a few weeks ago, but I wasn't sure was actually true.

Now that they have 3 months to build the next big show rather than 6 weeks, hopefully we start to get a little more breathing room for people to get more character time.
 
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DKehoe

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The quarters showed that the biggest drops were the PP/Dark Order quarter (-150k) and the Spears/Cutler match (-50k). The show started out over 960k viewers. NXT didn't appear to actually steal *any* appreciable number of viewers even with those huge drops, as it started out just over 800k and dropped to 769k mid-show, before getting a very big overrun due to people tuning in for whatever procedural is supposed to start at 10pm.

It just doesn't appear that more than a fraction of the audience cares about both shows at all, which Dave said a few weeks ago, but I wasn't sure was actually true.

Now that they have 3 months to build the next big show rather than 6 weeks, hopefully we start to get a little more breathing room for people to get more character time.
They really need to start doing more video packages to introduce their audience to their roster.
 

dream

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They really need to start doing more video packages to introduce their audience to their roster.
The frustrating thing is that when AEW does profile pieces, they tend to blow everything and everyone else away—they just don’t do them very often. The countdown to Full Gear show is a good example of some stuff that really should have aired on TV.
 

cryptoadam

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Neither show has a big audience. NXT should be drawing more if you look at the last week. NXT guys get huge cheers/NXT chants, social media is a buzz and calling SDL the best one in years. Yet those 2/2.5 Million viewers aren't migrating over to NXT. I think the Network holds the audeince back by maybe 150-250K, people who just don't want to deal with commercials and are willing to wait a day. But based on how much it seems WWE fans love NXT you would think more would tune in.

AEW is what it is. Every match is 15 minutes + with flippy floppy stuff and big moves and a million false finishes where even though wins matter everyone is equal to everyone. Outside of Cody/Jerhico and Mox no one seems to have any promo time or thought out storylines. Its a niche audience of fans that based on live attendance and now ratings seems to be going down not up.

The major difference is NXT can go back to being developmental and on the network, while also fending off indy's/ROH/Impacts and its no sweat off the WWE's ball sack. For AEW they have to be All In (pardon the pun) because they don't want to become the next TNA. Outside of the Cody stuff nothing really seems to be catching peoples attention.
 
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Dthomp

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Neither show has a big audience. NXT should be drawing more if you look at the last week. NXT guys get huge cheers/NXT chants, social media is a buzz and calling SDL the best one in years. Yet those 2/2.5 Million viewers aren't migrating over to NXT. I think the Network holds the audeince back by maybe 150-250K, people who just don't want to deal with commercials and are willing to wait a day. But based on how much it seems WWE fans love NXT you would think more would tune in.

AEW is what it is. Every match is 15 minutes + with flippy floppy stuff and big moves and a million false finishes where even though wins matter everyone is equal to everyone. Outside of Cody/Jerhico and Mox no one seems to have any promo time or thought out storylines. Its a niche audience of fans that based on live attendance and now ratings seems to be going down not up.

The major difference is NXT can go back to being developmental and on the network, while also fending off indy's/ROH/Impacts and its no sweat off the WWE's ball sack. For AEW they have to be All In (pardon the pun) because they don't want to become the next TNA. Outside of the Cody stuff nothing really seems to be catching peoples attention.
Think we discussed this before, but AEW will struggle for awhile I believe before we see really what they could/should be. Cody and the old heads will want one way of things, and that way does not mesh with the indy style of things. I truly believe that they need to unshackle Kenny and just let him shine, not as one of the Elite. As Kenny Omega, the wrestler who can beat anybody, not searching for something he left in Japan nonsense. I wonder how much of the first months was already set when we were looking at Kenny/Pac as the first title feud before the Pac stuff went down and how different things would have been for Omega.

Promos are good, and have been great in AEW, but there is a fine line before we start complaining about half the show being promos ALA Raw/SD.

The wins/losses IMO are hurting some of the talent. I like stat tracking, but when you look at the roster outside of Riho and Jericho, everybody is in the .500 range right now. We literally have 50/50 results, just with different matches each week.

The ratings race/war is silly to me since AEW is a brand new company building a brand. They weren't going to come out of the gate with 90s wrestling numbers. I'm more shocked that NXT still couldn't beat them after being heavily focused on for both Raw and SD. In general,as much as the IWC loves wrestling, it's not what it once was. Those numbers are probably never coming back, the sooner fans and suits realize this and have more realistic goals for these shows the better.

AEW needs to, and hopefully after Full Gear we start to see some proper divisions begin to pan out. They need a midcard title/tv title of some type and they need to elevate the likes of Pac, Kenny, Mox, Jericho, Pentagon, Fenix (Break the up) above the midcard. Kenny needs to stop dicking around with matches with Joey Janella and be the main eventer AEW needs him to be. Midcard based around MJF/Cody feud, with the likes of Hangman, eventually Marty, and others. Right now we just have alot of dudes fighting for no real reason, that's why the Cody/Jericho is getting attention, it's the only match being built up with any reason behind it. Mox/Kenny feels like a waste at this point to me, they have tried to build it up last couple weeks, but I just don't care about them pointing weapons at one another. I know Mox is a hardcore guy, but Kenny doesn't need to be dragged down to that level. Mox should only go to that extreme when pushed to there, not out of the gate, I don't want him treated like Darby, Janella, and Jimmy Havok in the forever 3 way hardcore match.
 

Bullet Club

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AEW reveals first top-five roster rankings

AEW has revealed a new rankings list for each of their divisions.

The first rankings, which were posted on AEW's social media, features Cody, Emi Sakura and The Lucha Bros at the top of each of AEW's divisions. These rankings align with the matches set for Full Gear on Saturday, as Cody will face Chris Jericho for the AEW World title, Emi Sakura will face Riho for the AEW Women’s title and The Lucha Bros. (along with Private Party) will face SCU for the AEW Tag Team titles.

These lists also feature the win/loss records for each wrestler and team. AEW has put an emphasis on wins and losses since premiering on TV last month.

Here are the rankings as of November 8. Full Gear, AEW’s next pay-per-view, will take place tomorrow at the Royal Farms Arena in Baltimore, Maryland:

AEW Men’s rankings:

Cody
PAC
Hangman Adam Page
Kenny Omega
Jon Moxley

AEW Women’s rankings:

Emi Sakura
Britt Baker
Hikaru Shida
Allie
Nyla Rose

AEW Tag Team rankings:

The Lucha Bros.
Private Party
The Young Bucks
Dark Order
Best Friends

 

Bushido Boi

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Well, I watched AEW Full Gear. Pretty good show overall. The Omega/Moxley match delivered a shit ton. I would have paid the $50 just for that match alone. It was the most brutal match I’ve seen in a long time. I’m starting to become a huge AEW fan and I hope it becomes extremely successful in the future. WWE is doing so many things wrong and I can’t stand to watch it anymore. AEW has me me buying $50 PPVs when I won’t even pay $10 for a month of WWE Network for their PPVs and content. I just couldn’t give less shits.
 

oagboghi2

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Full Gear was a good show. I really enjoyed the Cody match, and the MJF turn makes me want to watch Dynamite on Wednesday right now. The Omega/Moxley match was insane.

Every match on the card delivered, Just an overall great show.
 

Hinedorf

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HOLY SHIT THAT AEW PPV.........


-The announcers keep telling you the Young Bucks are great but they looks like a reject rockers team that I appreciate continuing to lose. Santana and Ortiz aren't great, young bucks are just average

-Pac Vs Hangman could be a weekly thing, these guys are first class entertainers together

-Why does Joey Janela exist?

-2 really entertaining tag teams lose to the most boring tag team

-Riho is fantastic on every level

-Hopefully not the end for Cody/Jericho great chemistry

-Moxley vs Omega - probably the most brutal wrestling match I've ever seen. If WWE fans see this match, Vince is going to be in trouble.
 

cryptoadam

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I though that Cody/Jerhico and Mox/Omega were way to long. 70 minutes for both those guys is too much.

Cody match was a WWE match stretched for too long. I get the turn and was expecting something to happen but I found they didn't really build it up. I don't care what happens on BTE or Youtube. MJF on the first Dynamite cuts a heel promo and gets booed out of the building. Next thing he is face and loves Cody. Aside from saving Cody we didn't really get anything from him to set it up. then the throwing in the towel kinda came out of nowhere as it was never really set up that the corner men can do that. The storyline is good and I think the feud will be good between the two, but they didn't really set it up during TV.

Mox/Omega just went on forever. I liked the big spots as long as they were gimmicked, but it was also just too much IMO. I felt the crowd was the same, they didn't care until there was the big spots. Cut out 20 minutes or so and take out a few spots and it would of been better IMO.
 
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Dthomp

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Well, I caved and ordered Full Gear:

Britt/Bea - Meh. I like Britt Baker, but her matches always feel off to me. Like she's overthinking it too much maybe. Britt still winning too many matches, not sure I'd have put her over Bea who hasn't really had a TV personality yet.

Bucks/Proud.. - Decent match, good way to put over the new hot tag team. I liked that there was actual selling (at least for a while) from Nick Jackson, and it playing into the finish was actually really good story telling for the match. It was slower then usual Bucks matches, but I think that plays into Proud and Powerfuls gimmick. In rematches the YB can crank up the speed and the match will make more sense for them winning that style of match.

Page/Pac - It was fine I guess. I'm a huge fan of everything Pac does, his look, the character he plays, and his style. Page is just the skinny fat guy the crowd will now chant cowboy shit at for the next year. He's built to be a cookie cutter NXT guy, I find Pages matches to be the most basic of any of the ROH/NJPW guys. Also seeing Pac, who has muscle in places that Page doesn't have places just makes Pac look like a stud next to the chunky cowboy. Pac can tap out Kenny Omega...but not beat Page with the same move? WTF is this nonsense booking?

Janella/Spears - Fuck you AEW! Cody getting his boy on a PPV. I'm sorry, but Tye Fucking Dillinger is awful, nothing will make anyone care about him. He is a below average worker, below average look, and is a below average promo...and somehow wasn't the biggest piece of useless crap in this match. Somebody please buy Joey a gym membership....

Triple Threat Tag - This other then the last match may have been my biggest let down. From the beginning I expected PP was added to eat the pin, I'm fine with that, but I think maybe the finals of the tag tourney should have been here. I would have liked a title change on the card, but SCU just got the belts so it was hard to see them lose them already. I will say it again, Pentagon and Fenix are wasted as a tag team, they bring more to the table as singles stars IMO.

Emi/Riho - I really enjoyed this, I really wish they would have put more effort and time into building this one up for the audience before the match. While I'm not a Riho fan, it's no fault of her own (I think), I was really pulling for Emi to win, just because all the females winning matches are faces and would make more sense for a heel? to be the champ. Riho is starting to bore me quickly, she's on every PPV and most Dynamites but her offense is literally foot stomps, running knees, and rollups....She'll keep it until they feed her to Kong and we get Kong/Shida.

Cody/Jericho - Bleh, once again a Cody match that people will only remember because shocker...he bled. This was a boring WWE style match between two guys who only know how to put on a WWE match. I hate the argument about Cody being the most over guy...he is that BECAUSE he is the person who the fans see as the guy who brought them AEW. The same way people cheer HHH for being in charge of NXT. Cody is and always to me will be one of the most boring guys in the ring, he is by far the least talented Rhodes. Onto the match...It was just meh, if Cody didn't faceplant and bust open it would have been even more boring I think (Not that he likely wasn't going to blade anyways). As much as I enjoy Jericho, he's not built for long matches anymore, I'm sorry. He's old and....fat? big? Too many not botches, but missed little things that shouldn't happen between two vets. The turn was beyond needed at this point. After All Out MJF was looking to be the most hated heel in wrestling, and was put in this dumb Codys buddy spot for WAY to long. You don't establish a villian, then immediately make him a buddy babyface. This ending was BEYOND predictable the second that he came out with Cody and Jake got the boot.

kenny/Mox - Hmmm. I'm torn here, cause while I'm an old school fan who would much rather see a Kenny 6 star NJPW match every week then this shit, I didn't hate it the way Dave did. Everything that looked bad...well was supposed to. Most of the "props" outside of the bat and broom seemed completely safe. If that was real glass they'd been GUSHING blood. If that wasn't a rigged spiderwrap, they'd be gushing blood. It is like a magician, it was illusion to set up the violence. Worst spot was kenny missing the Phoenix splash onto the wood. I get it's unsanctioned, but fans don't forget losses. Too many losses for Kenny, and worse yet all to ex-WWE guys. Don't give the impression you are the new Impact by pushing old WWE guys only please. Also, let this feud be done for a long while. Kenny deserves better then this.

All in all, It was worth the price even with the hiccups in the event. I will say though...AEW needs to do some hiring or have a training school deal for talent cause we are seeing the same dudes every week on Dynamite and PPV now, and we need variety. Can't just wait out disgruntled WWE guys and Marty and hope that fixes your depth.
 

Dthomp

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I though that Cody/Jerhico and Mox/Omega were way to long. 70 minutes for both those guys is too much.

Cody match was a WWE match stretched for too long. I get the turn and was expecting something to happen but I found they didn't really build it up. I don't care what happens on BTE or Youtube. MJF on the first Dynamite cuts a heel promo and gets booed out of the building. Next thing he is face and loves Cody. Aside from saving Cody we didn't really get anything from him to set it up. then the throwing in the towel kinda came out of nowhere as it was never really set up that the corner men can do that. The storyline is good and I think the feud will be good between the two, but they didn't really set it up during TV.

Mox/Omega just went on forever. I liked the big spots as long as they were gimmicked, but it was also just too much IMO. I felt the crowd was the same, they didn't care until there was the big spots. Cut out 20 minutes or so and take out a few spots and it would of been better IMO.
This went up while I was typing so sorry bout the double post, but you hit the nail right on with the Cody/MJF. I hope this feud is used to make MJF a legit superstar and not just another thing to put Cody over. AEW needs to stop with the BTE and the other YT stuff. I don't do it for the WWE, and I won't go out of my way to find YT videos to explain things your TV should. It was fun when it was just something they did on the side when they worked in NJPW, but you have a company and a TV deal now, you don't need to rely on YT to get people invested in you anymore...

I was fine mostly with the main event, could have easily been cut 10 minutes, but we already seemed to get that Spears/Joey match added due to not enough matches, not sure what else they could do with the extra 10 minutes TBH
 

cryptoadam

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This went up while I was typing so sorry bout the double post, but you hit the nail right on with the Cody/MJF. I hope this feud is used to make MJF a legit superstar and not just another thing to put Cody over. AEW needs to stop with the BTE and the other YT stuff. I don't do it for the WWE, and I won't go out of my way to find YT videos to explain things your TV should. It was fun when it was just something they did on the side when they worked in NJPW, but you have a company and a TV deal now, you don't need to rely on YT to get people invested in you anymore...

I was fine mostly with the main event, could have easily been cut 10 minutes, but we already seemed to get that Spears/Joey match added due to not enough matches, not sure what else they could do with the extra 10 minutes TBH
MJF turning was obvious, but not set up at all. MJF has the tools, but he is so wasted. Pre Dynamite he was stuck in 6 mans and random matches, and then Dynamite comes along and he is on the debut as a big heel, and then poof he is Cody's lackey. He should of had promo time to establish that he was Cody's BFF on TV. Give him some ring time so fans can see him on the show. And also set up the towel thing. NXT did the same thing with Moustache Mountain but they set it up over 2 matches.

I think the feud between the two will be great so how they got there doesn't matter. MJF will be a great asshole and Cody makes all his feuds front and center and books them the best in comparison to the rest of the roster. But its a bit hard to buy MJF whose biggest claim to fame so far is beating the Elites BFF who is a jobber that cutler guy. At least have MJF beat a Janela or Havok along the way.

As far as time, well the PPV didn't need to go to 11:40, they could of ended it at 11 or so. no need to go 30 minutes for Cody and 40 for Mox. 20 and 25 would of been more than enough. Get rid of the mouse trap spot and the 10 moves on the exposed ring. Get to the big spots quicker and go home earlier in the match.

Personally though I am not a big blood and guts guy. I kinda find it a bit sad that Mox/Omega are out there using barbwire and taking these stupid spots. Thankfully the glass/spiderweb wasn't real but these 2 guys don't need this garbage crap to be over. Did Mox really leave the WWE to do these garbage matches and take years of his body? He did the same shit with Janela too. Havok/Janela I get they dont have much else going. But Mox and Omega don't really need to be killing themselves with stupid bumps and spots to get over.
 
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DKehoe

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I like Omega and Moxley a lot but that match just wasn't for me. The feud didn't feel like one that needed a hardcore match and it just felt like they were going from one weapon/prop spot to the next.
 

Dthomp

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I like Omega and Moxley a lot but that match just wasn't for me. The feud didn't feel like one that needed a hardcore match and it just felt like they were going from one weapon/prop spot to the next.
Yeah, while the match likely could have been just as good as a regular old match to show that Mox can hang with Kenny in the ring, this felt like shock value just for shock value. I'm glad most of the spots were super propped and not dangerous, but I feel like that was a match that didn't really help either guy in the long run. Mox who is known as a hardcore wrestler, wins a hardcore match, against a guy that is a wrestling machine...but it doesn't count? It was too much, when there wasn't really any good reason for it being too much.