• Hey, guest user. Hope you're enjoying NeoGAF! Have you considered registering for an account? Come join us and add your take to the daily discourse.
  • Hey Guest. Check out the NeoGAF 2.2 Update Thread for details on our new Giphy integration and other new features.

[WSJ] Trump Has Discussed Starting a New Political Party

Mahadev

Member
Mar 5, 2007
2,448
3,433
1,605
Sounds like you need to read more political issues if those are your conclusions.


My conclusions are based on facts regarding the illegal wars the neocon snakes that control the Republican party started before Trump and the trillions wasted on them. Even during Trump the same snakes, psychopaths like John Bolton, tried to start a new even more destructive war, with Iran this time. Say what you want about Trump, most of it it's true, the man is incompetent and a swindler but at least unlike most of the Washington sociopaths he has a conscience and resisted new wars by any means necessary. I will always have some respect for him for that.
 
Mar 3, 2020
65
80
205
and how did the tea party split the republican party back in 2014 and 2016

Did republicans not win those years?

It's about turnout. It's always about turnout

The Tea Party never ran actual candidates as an actual party, its was always just Republican candidates who the Tea Party were behind (Cruz, Rubio etc). As far as I am aware, there was never a three way race between Dem/Republican/Tea Party. If Trump starts his own party there will be (at least on the presidential ticket), in theory, 3 options. Dem candidate, Republican candidate, Trump. In which case Trump is going syphon off enough votes from the the Republicans to hand the Democrats places like Texas, Florida, Georgia (again), the rust belt. Basically any swing state. As I said, the Republicans would need to the Democrat party to split in order to have any chance.

We saw this with the recent election in the UK, only on the left, where in certain areas the Greens, Lib Dems, and (begrudgingly) Labour formed packs in some areas to not run against each other, for fear of splitting the left vote.
 

BeardGawd

Member
Dec 16, 2019
658
1,213
485
This is the kind of thing that might motivate Republicans to impeach, particularly the McConnell types who are all about the team.

Fracturing the right would be a great gift to Democrats and corporatists who are likely to align themselves against whatever fragile coalition remains.

We were talking about Andrew Johnson parallels in one of the other threads and this sure feels like another; Johnson attempted to start a new party and ended up failing and unable to secure a nomination in either of the existing ones.

Trump is using the threat of starting a new party to keep the Republicans in-line and ensure they vote not to convict during the impeachment trial. Trump starting his own party would be the worst nightmare for Republicans.
 
Last edited:
  • Thoughtful
Reactions: Shaqazooloo

INCUBASE

Member
Jan 8, 2018
5,698
12,035
715
Theres plenty of whales to con i guess

No doubt the party will go bankrupt in 6 months
 
Oct 15, 2019
774
1,472
390
New York
I love these threads just to search through comments and see how many people think we don't already have a third party.
Don't look at me, I voted Johnson in 2016 because I thought Trump would be a diplomatic dumpster fire. Jorgensen has killed any support I had for that party though since she's bought into anti-racism and identity politics. A Patriot Party that is all the pro-American policies without the abrasiveness of Trump himself is really exciting to me though.
 

Majukun

Member
Jun 19, 2009
12,293
494
990
Don't look at me, I voted Johnson in 2016 because I thought Trump would be a diplomatic dumpster fire. Jorgensen has killed any support I had for that party though since she's bought into anti-racism and identity politics. A Patriot Party that is all the pro-American policies without the abrasiveness of Trump himself is really exciting to me though.
wouldn't a party created by him pretty much copy-paste his political and communication strategies though?
esepcially since they are so damn effective apparently
 
  • Thoughtful
Reactions: Shaqazooloo
Oct 15, 2019
774
1,472
390
New York
wouldn't a party created by him pretty much copy-paste his political and communication strategies though?
esepcially since they are so damn effective apparently
A party is built on a platform of policies, not emulating the demeanor and rhetoric of it's founder. While I'm sure there will be shades of Trump in some of the people he inspires, you don't need to act like him to run on a platform of bringing companies back to America, encouraging the creation of small business, withdrawing from the Middle East, and protecting citizens from both government and corporate overreach. If you can fill a party with people who embrace those policies, I will support it whole heartedly.
 

DunDunDunpachi

Patient MembeR
Apr 18, 2018
29,332
70,261
1,375
USA
dunpachi.com
A party is built on a platform of policies, not emulating the demeanor and rhetoric of it's founder.
I agree with you in principle.

However, a lot of voters clearly do not think the way you do. Plenty of voters clutch pearls and go on long tirades about the demeanor and rhetoric of political figures. If you make the mistake of bending your ear, they will tell you in great detail how they are personally distressed by not just something the politician said, but how they said it. These ninnies are a growing segment of the voter base, the sort of people who cry and embrace when a [insert a new First off the checklist] gets into office, or will stomp their feet and vow to oppose a politician because of something CNN said they said.

Some Trump enthusiasts like Trump because of his demeanor and rhetoric, and voted for him because he was the opposite of what was described above. In many ways he was an "own the libs" candidate, someone who would stick out his tongue and point and laugh in a way that meek Republicans weren't willing to do.

I can envision parties based largely around the demeanor / debate style / popular appeal of a candidate, at least at the beginning.
 

SF Kosmo

...please disperse...
Jul 7, 2020
6,419
7,637
700
Trump is using the threat of starting a new party to keep the Republicans in-line and ensure they vote not to convict during the impeachment trial. Trump starting his own party would be the worst nightmare for Republicans.
You think if Trump is convicted he's gonna waste his time starting a party he can't even hold office in? I mean he could but I don't know what it would represent. There's no sense that "Trump" Republicans were any more likely to align on policy or remain loyal than any others.
 
  • Thoughtful
Reactions: Shaqazooloo
Oct 15, 2019
774
1,472
390
New York
I agree with you in principle.

However, a lot of voters clearly do not think the way you do. Plenty of voters clutch pearls and go on long tirades about the demeanor and rhetoric of political figures. If you make the mistake of bending your ear, they will tell you in great detail how they are personally distressed by not just something the politician said, but how they said it. These ninnies are a growing segment of the voter base, the sort of people who cry and embrace when a [insert a new First off the checklist] gets into office, or will stomp their feet and vow to oppose a politician because of something CNN said they said.

Some Trump enthusiasts like Trump because of his demeanor and rhetoric, and voted for him because he was the opposite of what was described above. In many ways he was an "own the libs" candidate, someone who would stick out his tongue and point and laugh in a way that meek Republicans weren't willing to do.

I can envision parties based largely around the demeanor / debate style / popular appeal of a candidate, at least at the beginning.
I see what you're saying, but I just can't see a party built around personality instead of substance gaining support. I guess maybe I'm blindly optimistic in that I want to believe Trump cultivated the support he did because of his populist ideals. That it was the support of people who were sick of all this asinine identity politics bullshit, but saw voting for establishment Republicans as selling the American people out to the rich and powerful ruling class. Maybe I'm wrong about all that though. Maybe they crowded around him soley out of a kind of cult of personality. I really hope that isnt the case. That would kill a lot of faith I have in my fellow man
 
Last edited:

TheContact

Gold Member
Jan 22, 2016
6,470
6,137
860
Trump is using the threat of starting a new party to keep the Republicans in-line and ensure they vote not to convict during the impeachment trial. Trump starting his own party would be the worst nightmare for Republicans.

you think trump actually cares about the republican party? he's changed his party affiliation 5 times. he's an opportunist
 

DunDunDunpachi

Patient MembeR
Apr 18, 2018
29,332
70,261
1,375
USA
dunpachi.com
I see what you're saying, but I just can't see a party built around personality instead of substance gaining support. I guess maybe I'm blindly optimistic in that I want to believe Trump cultivated the support he did because of his populist ideals. That it was the support of people who were sick of all this asinine identity politics bullshit, but saw voting for establishment Republicans as selling the American people out to the rich and powerful ruling class. Maybe I'm wrong about all that though. Maybe they crowded around him soley out of a kind of cult of personality. I really hope that isnt the case. That would kill a lot of faith I have in my fellow man
I think I've done a bad job of explaining. I know that people voted for him for the reasons you described. I'm not dismissing the people who vote for a candidate based on principles or pragmatism.

Popular personality cults are now a fixture of our politics, especially in Hollywood-driven America where such a thing is normal instead of disturbing. It's an issue that's bigger than parties and individual politicians. In general, I think we as a culture are shallow enough to vote for politicians based on vain, superficial things like demeanor and rhetoric because a lot of voters don't suffer much damage for the choice they've made. Sadly things will probably have to get worse before they get better, simply to tip the culture back toward the middle, where we can meet and discuss with our neighbors without worrying if they're secretly a white supremacist or an SJW who will attack us or report us.
 
  • Thoughtful
Reactions: Shaqazooloo

AppleBlade

Member
Dec 6, 2008
2,025
128
1,250
Connecticut
As a Democrat this would be my dream come true. If this happened, my prediction is that the Democrats would not only easily win the Presidency but they'd win both chambers of congress by significant margins.
 

Petey-o

Member
Nov 17, 2019
829
1,325
385
This would probably last until right leaning voters realize they're never winning the presidency again until either the Republican or Trump party goes away. It's probably more likely that the Republican party will just have a significant section within their party that is all about Trump and his type of politics. Like a Tea Party++.
 

ExpandKong

Banned
Jan 9, 2018
5,246
14,673
825
Do it. Hopefully it inspires the radical faction of the Democrats to split off from their party as well. Break 'em all up.
 
  • Thoughtful
Reactions: Shaqazooloo

HE1NZ

Member
Apr 9, 2019
2,014
3,935
525
Republican party will probably crumble if Trump creates his own and carry people like Ted Cruz and DeSantis with him. Probably a good thing, party leadership is nothing but backstubbers and part of establishment uniparty with Biden's dems.
 
Last edited:

ExpandKong

Banned
Jan 9, 2018
5,246
14,673
825
There's no cult surrounding one person on the far left like Trump. Zero chance of succeeding.

 

LordCBH

Member
Jun 4, 2020
1,853
4,653
410
Literally all it would do is weaken the Republican Party, thus strengthening the Democrat party.
 

Paltheos

Member
Feb 28, 2015
2,386
498
490
Browsing through this topic.
How exactly does creating a third political party work to the benefit of Republicans (moreso people on the right instead of people labeled 'Republican')?
We live in a FPTP country - the candidate who gets the most votes wins. All this would do is split Republican voting lines and give Democrats stronger majorities. Irregular blocks like this are co-opted into one of the major parties as a matter of necessity. You can't split the vote without losing to your biggest opponent.
Major parties can and have died out in our history to be replaced but it remains to be seen if Trump has the power to kill the Republican party (god I hope not). I'm skeptical this effort would even get off the ground though, for a whole host of reasons but not the least of which is all the shit that's gone on this month.

Misc: When I saw this headline last night the first thing I thought was "Bull Moose".
 

ExpandKong

Banned
Jan 9, 2018
5,246
14,673
825
Browsing through this topic.
How exactly does creating a third political party work to the benefit of Republicans (moreso people on the right instead of people labeled 'Republican')?
We live in a FPTP country - the candidate who gets the most votes wins. All this would do is split Republican voting lines and give Democrats stronger majorities. Irregular blocks like this are co-opted into one of the major parties as a matter of necessity. You can't split the vote without losing to your biggest opponent.
Major parties can and have died out in our history to be replaced but it remains to be seen if Trump has the power to kill the Republican party (god I hope not). I'm skeptical this effort would even get off the ground though, for a whole host of reasons but not the least of which is all the shit that's gone on this month.

Misc: When I saw this headline last night the first thing I thought was "Bull Moose".

The two-party system needs to disappear. It's grown stagnant and a lot of people have learned in this past election that neither party truly represents them anymore.

After Trump I doubt that significant challenges to the status quo will ever be allowed within either party again, so they must come from outside. However you might feel about Trump, you'd be hard pressed to think of anybody else with the kind of following required to even have a chance of getting a viable third party off the ground.
 

sackings

Member
Jul 22, 2020
690
1,843
385
Not gonna happen...I think the more likely outcome is he becomes the Soros of the Right. A new party will only happen if theres people calling for it from both sides. You would need the populists from both sides (bernie bros, healthcare for all) to join hands.
 

Paulxo87

Member
Oct 24, 2017
601
1,157
450
He's waiting to see what the republicans do in the senate trial. If they convict he will destroy the entire republican party. Their attempts to distance themselves from him and his ~100 million die hard supporters is laughable. Trump IS the party.
 

Paltheos

Member
Feb 28, 2015
2,386
498
490
The two-party system needs to disappear. It's grown stagnant and a lot of people have learned in this past election that neither party truly represents them anymore.

After Trump I doubt that significant challenges to the status quo will ever be allowed within either party again, so they must come from outside. However you might feel about Trump, you'd be hard pressed to think of anybody else with the kind of following required to even have a chance of getting a viable third party off the ground.

Like I said, that's not how the system works. You can't eliminate two-party rule because our elections are built to strongly encourage them.
I don't know if you're not familiar with how FPTP works, but CGP provides a good explanation for it.

I am totally, 100% in favor of eliminating FPTP, by the way - there are much better alternatives - but that's something that can only be achieved via legislation. It's also a pipe dream lol :(
 

oagboghi2

Member
Apr 15, 2018
11,703
19,714
675
The Tea Party never ran actual candidates as an actual party, its was always just Republican candidates who the Tea Party were behind (Cruz, Rubio etc). As far as I am aware, there was never a three way race between Dem/Republican/Tea Party. If Trump starts his own party there will be (at least on the presidential ticket), in theory, 3 options. Dem candidate, Republican candidate, Trump. In which case Trump is going syphon off enough votes from the the Republicans to hand the Democrats places like Texas, Florida, Georgia (again), the rust belt. Basically any swing state. As I said, the Republicans would need to the Democrat party to split in order to have any chance.

We saw this with the recent election in the UK, only on the left, where in certain areas the Greens, Lib Dems, and (begrudgingly) Labour formed packs in some areas to not run against each other, for fear of splitting the left vote.
That isn’t how American politics work.

No one will seriously run as a third wheel in a 2 man race. They will do exactly what the tea party did. Run as a “tea party” or trump equivalent republican, against a establishment republican in the primary, and the winner faces off against the dem in the real race.
 

Ten_Fold

Member
Jan 18, 2017
2,394
2,114
480
Is this a fucking joke? Have we forgotten so quickly because of Trump that Republicans are the party of neocon warmongers that wasted trillions on wars and are responsible for hundreds of thousands of innocents murdered by their war crimes? Less spending? Maybe for the working class that needs it, definitely not for their corporate buddies that were heftily compensated for their bribes through war, subsidies and tax cuts.
Stop crying, you think Democrats isn’t helping their buddies? Do you think they give a fuck about you? Do you think they are going to level the playing field? The simple answer is no, If you are much better off with republicans if you are middle class/upper middle. Democrats are the best liars in the game, so stop crying an go back to Twitter.
 
Last edited:

RowdyReverb

Member
Mar 27, 2014
5,404
15
590
Houston, TX
Would love it if both parties split and we ended up with a 4 party system. More granularity in which aspects of a platform you support would be great
 

manfestival

Member
Nov 12, 2009
12,724
3,562
1,255
Trump creating a political party will effectively ruin the GOP. Granted they are already in a bad place. Also being a part of said party would paint everyone with a giant target for this purge that is happening. Just seems like a bad idea through and through. Unless you are someone that supports the dems and want more authoritarian governmental control.
 

Mahadev

Member
Mar 5, 2007
2,448
3,433
1,605
Stop crying, you think Democrats isn’t helping their buddies? Do you think they give a fuck about you? Do you think they are going to level the playing field? The simple answer is no, If you are much better off with republicans if you are middle class/upper middle. Democrats are the best liars in the game, so stop crying an go back to Twitter.


The Obama admin started the wars in Libya, Syria and Yemen, they're also snakes. I like though how you're defending these neocon psychopaths by practically yelling "the other guy did it too!". So fucking what, they're still warmongers and liars, terrible for the working class and certainly aren't the party of "less spending".
 
Last edited:

MastaKiiLA

Member
Jun 11, 2020
1,661
3,081
375
Do it. Maybe it'll allow for progressives to break from the Democratic party. I'm tired of having to support their turd sandwiches. Biden got a ton of "Not Trump" votes. There wasn't a whole lot of passion for him as a candidate.
 

Wunray

Member
Jan 7, 2018
1,416
1,752
475
Not likely to happen, but there will be in-fighting in the R camp for a bit, hard to say who will come out on top. Some of you really underestimate how much reach trump had. I personally don't think R will be ready for the 2024 race.
 

BeardGawd

Member
Dec 16, 2019
658
1,213
485
You think if Trump is convicted he's gonna waste his time starting a party he can't even hold office in? I mean he could but I don't know what it would represent. There's no sense that "Trump" Republicans were any more likely to align on policy or remain loyal than any others.

The threat of him splitting the party is real. Trump has too many loyal followers for them to convict him:

 
Last edited:
  • Praise the Sun
Reactions: infinitys_7th

infinitys_7th

Gold Member
Oct 1, 2006
12,245
22,159
1,885
The threat of him splitting the party is real. Trump has too many loyal followers for them to convict him:


I know that if they vote to convict him over a baseless accusation, I will never vote for another Republican again.
 

Rentahamster

Rodent Whores
Jun 26, 2007
44,894
17,285
1,770
Best Coast
We live in a FPTP country - the candidate who gets the most votes wins. All this would do is split Republican voting lines and give Democrats stronger majorities. Irregular blocks like this are co-opted into one of the major parties as a matter of necessity. You can't split the vote without losing to your biggest opponent.
Major parties can and have died out in our history to be replaced but it remains to be seen if Trump has the power to kill the Republican party (god I hope not). I'm skeptical this effort would even get off the ground though, for a whole host of reasons but not the least of which is all the shit that's gone on this month.
This is why we should try out ranked choice voting.
 

Vestal

Gold Member
Sep 26, 2007
9,524
694
1,360
Tampa FL
If said third party can’t syphon enough voters from the DNC to make it a competitive 3 way then it is a failed idea.

Look personally I think the current structure of both parties is screwed up. The idea that the parties were basically split down the middle and there is no room in either party for people who are a mix of left/right social and economic policy is an issue. It leads to both parties relying more and more on the “base” instead of a more centrist approach. Creating parties that are even further to the right or left of the current parties is not a recipe for success but a recipe for disaster on your side of the isle.

I’m a staunch believer that we need both parties to actually find common ground on issues instead of the continued stalemate on every major political debate.

Purity test on both parties need to end.
 
Last edited:

TheFarter

Member
Oct 21, 2017
189
296
300
Sounds like a guy ready to be arrested for such atrocious crimes such as winning the 2016 election and throwing a monkey wrench into everything.