Support NeoGAF

[LittleBusters]

For those trying to say that 'Craig' is equivalent is like saying Chernobyl is the same as a brush-fire. Craig-gate hurts, but is not strategically fatal. If anything the question is still open that 2013 is an ongoing fatal wound that is not recoverable.

 

[James Sawyer Ford]

2013 wasn't a fatal mistake

But Phil Spencer is not a good leader for Xbox, and he hasn't made the right changes soon enough. He panders to numbers and metrics and gives no thought into the medium as art.

In many ways, 2013 was a more exciting period compared to now. Phil has given us a powerful box with no compelling reason to buy it for many years, if at all.

 

[ReBurn]

I liked that they stopped making consoles look like toys in 2013. It's nice to have a box in the entertainment center that looks like it belongs there.

 

[Strider Highwind]

I think the reveals back then is what really lead to this wild waiting game. They both got their poker faces on something serious, even now with the xbox pricing announced and the Sony show tomorrow. Maybe its wishful thinking, but i still see an october surprise from one of them

 

[LittleBusters]

Besides CrossFire X - what confirmed exclusives are coming before the end of the year?

 

[Shmunter]

Gamepass, xcloud. We shall see how open traditional retail channels are to embracing a product that is hell bent on their demise. Relevancy of traditional channels may not be all that important in the near future anyway.

See how it plays out. But if retail is reserving shelf space and promotions for Sony, things could get worse for Xbox.

 

[mckmas8808]

Gamepass, xcloud. We shall see how open traditional retail channels are to embracing a product that is hell bent on their demise. Relevancy of traditional channels may not be all that important in the near future anyway.

See how it plays out. But if retail is reserving shelf space and promotions for Sony, things could get worse for Xbox.

This is a terrific point that I've never thought about before.

 

[SegaShack]

I loved the 2013 xbox company. KI, Titan Fall, and Susnset Overdrive were released that year and early 2014.

I loved using the kinect to control my home theater devices. The snap feature was awesome. Microsoft said they were committed to making this home theater device, then just bailed on the concept and tried to be just a "gaming machine".

I assumed that the whole console generation would have games like what we saw around launch. I was definitely mistaken.

I liked the original vision for the Xbox One and even the original OS. I feel MS ditched the early adopters. I miss when game systems had unique hardware and the kinect being included wouldve had so much potential.

 

[ShirAhava]

The writing was on the wall for XBOX in 2010 that's when you know who jumped ship and the decline started

2013 was just them doubling down hard on the direction they had been pushing towards for years at that point

2013 sucked so hard because it was the final straw Durango was rumored to be a super powerful beast with BC
and ended up being a HTPC BOX for fucking CABLE, always online, KINECT 2.0 came with the system etc.

XBOX has been off the rails for ten years now hopefully they can turn things around

 

[Jaguar Victory]

Gamepass, xcloud. We shall see how open traditional retail channels are to embracing a product that is hell bent on their demise. Relevancy of traditional channels may not be all that important in the near future anyway.

See how it plays out. But if retail is reserving shelf space and promotions for Sony, things could get worse for Xbox.

They still make good bank on accessories. Controllers, headsets, SSDs, etc. I'd venture to say game consoles are still the most ubiquitous 4k UHD players so they help sell movies too. There is still value at retail.

 

[MiyazakiHatesKojima]

They're smelier than they were back in 2013

 

[Compsiox]

But Phil Spencer is not a good leader for Xbox,

That's not really fair. He's done a great job so far turning the division around. He's not perfect but to say he's not good is very untrue.

 

[LittleBusters]

The writing was on the wall for XBOX in 2010 that's when you know who jumped ship and the decline started

2013 was just them doubling down hard on the direction they had been pushing towards for years at that point

2013 sucked so hard because it was the final straw Durango was rumored to be a super powerful beast with BC
and ended up being a HTPC BOX for fucking CABLE, always online, KINECT 2.0 came with the system etc.

XBOX has been off the rails for ten years now hopefully they can turn things around

Phil insists XBox is back to being games, games, games now. Do you believe him?

 

[DrScissorsMD]

Lmao “ongoing fatal”. It either was fatal or it wasn’t, if they survived then it was by its very definition not fatal. If you’d compared it to a terminal illness, that might’ve made more sense, but even then it’s just not true; the sales gap between Xbox and PS could stay exactly the same this gen and it would still not kill Xbox. Everything they’ve done service-wise and everything they’ve suggested will come on the game front would indicate in the absolutely worst case scenario they’re still going to be on par with current gen, when realistically they’re going to gain a bit of ground back but will remain in “3rd place”. They’re not going anywhere, to even vaguely alude to the Craig debacle as being capable of killing MS is ridiculous.

 

[DavidGzz]

Gamepass, xcloud. We shall see how open traditional retail channels are to embracing a product that is hell bent on their demise. Relevancy of traditional channels may not be all that important in the near future anyway.

See how it plays out. But if retail is reserving shelf space and promotions for Sony, things could get worse for Xbox.

A $100 difference for the same hardware sans disc drive will make them really happy about PS5 DE. PS Now is also a streaming service. Retailers know it's inevitable, Sony is just not pushing quite as hard with PSNow but only because they don't need to yet. Gamestop know they are screwed, they are closing even more stores soon.

 

[Gtafans93]

Phil fixed xbox immensely. From always online to a weak box that looked like a old school VCR (I liked it but lets be fair if it was a godly beast it make sense, It didnt) I mean once the xbox one X came to fruition I was way more excited for xbox. listening to fans, giving us BC, and getting more exclusives out. Phil Keep up the great work

 

[LokusAbriss]

2013 was better in terms of games at release. Day one, you had games like Forza Motorsport 5, Dead Rising 3 and Ryse. This holiday for XSX looks pretty meh. First party output is nearly non excisting. Covid is no excuse, because they had years to prepair and it is not like they released something big this year like Sony.

 

[MrFunSocks]

Besides CrossFire X - what confirmed exclusives are coming before the end of the year?

Go look at one of the launch title topics, there are as many as there are on the PS5.

Back in 2013 people got scared and then spread FUD all over the internet. It hurt MS immensely, but it wasn't what "lost" the Xbox One the sales battle. What lost them that was the fact that the PS4 was coming out, and that alone.

The new OnePlus isn't gonna get outsold by the iPhone 12 because of it's unveiling, it's going to get outsold by the iPhone 12 because the iPhone 12 is an iPhone made by Apple. The same will happen this upcoming gen - the PS5 will outsell the Series S/X because it's a Playstation made by Sony.

Also Spencer has been amazing for Xbox, as has Nadella. Anyone suggesting otherwise has their head in the sand.

Microsoft are really ramping up the attention with their first party games, that's why there aren't any really coming for a while. When was the last time Forza got like 4 years to release a game? Never. No new yearly gears, halo, fable, forza, etc. They're all probably 2 years away even now. They're being given the time they need, yet people on here are now giving them shit for it. They can't win with some of you.

 

[cireza]

No difference for me, still the same three console manufacturers that make pretty much the same games and hardware. And it was the same the generation before. Nothing exciting.

 

[The Pleasure]

Phil insists XBox is back to being games, games, games now. Do you believe him?

He talks about games but we haven't seen em yet. Why did Microsoft hire George Broussard?

 

[ethomaz]

IMO MS 2020 strategy (or lack of) is more damaged to the brand than what happened with Xbox One in 2013.

The 180 together with a launch lineup recovered almost all the bad wom the console had before launch and helped to MS archive record sales... not surprising Xbox One started to get lower sales when MS stopped to release exclusives games plus the price had to be cut with the remove or Kinect... that helped the sales again but the releases stopped to happen that did hurt again.

There is nothing (until) to recover from the bad wom of Series S/X.

 

[DarkMage619]

He talks about games but we haven't seen em yet. Why did Microsoft hire George Broussard?

There are tons of games on Xbox and Gamepass. People continuing to say they don't doesn't make it true. There is no comparison between TV TV TV and Gamepass. One is literally all about games. I'm sure people are thrilled now they changed focus.

 

[DavidGzz]

There are tons of games on Xbox and Gamepass. People continuing to say they don't doesn't make it true. There is no comparison between TV TV TV and Gamepass. One is literally all about games. I'm sure people are thrilled now they changed focus.

Yeah, I guess XGS didn't release these this year:
Wasteland Remastered
Ori and the Will of the Wisps
Bleeding Edge
Gears Tactics
Minecraft Dungeons
Grounded
Wasteland 3
Tell me Why
Flight Simulator

No 3rd person story games so they don't count! I mean I loved TLOU2 and Ghost but I also love Flight Simulator, Wasteland 3, and Ori. The haters will always downplay Xbox games.

Also, if these don't qualify as games and these naysaysers only play 1-3 Sony exclusives a year, no wonder they have so much time to troll.

 

[THE DUCK]

This is a terrific point that I've never thought about before.

Retail? Whats that? Won't 80% of console sales this fall be through online sales? (Especially considering covid)

 

[Alan Wake]

Xbox Series X has the muscle but no games at launch, Xbox One actually had the games but also Kinect and inferior hardware.

 

[DavidGzz]

Xbox Series X has the muscle but no games at launch, Xbox One actually had the games but also Kinect and inferior hardware.

Do you have the confirmed launch list?

 

[KingdomHeartsFan]

Its amazing to me that Phil has got very little of the blame for the Series X horrible upcoming launch.

He relies on 343, a studio that has a horrible track record, to provide the ONLY big first party exclusive to launch with the Series X, with zero back up plan. 343 goes seemingly unsupervised developing Halo Infinite and they don't even know how horrible it looks until the fans tell them. Then he says he even considered launching the game in pieces, like wtf?

 

[Shmunter]

They still make good bank on accessories. Controllers, headsets, SSDs, etc. I'd venture to say game consoles are still the most ubiquitous 4k UHD players so they help sell movies too. There is still value at retail.

Certainly. To offer a contrast, the competitor Sony not disrupting retail business as much by not pushing PSNOW may likely see retail promote them in favour of Xbox. Indeed new controllers, proper new gen messaging and even PSVR gives retail broader options over its life.

Essentially MS strategy works against them at retail. How relevant retail is today and the effect on take up remains to be seen.

 

[The Pleasure]

There are tons of games on Xbox and Gamepass. People continuing to say they don't doesn't make it true. There is no comparison between TV TV TV and Gamepass. One is literally all about games. I'm sure people are thrilled now they changed focus.

Are these new launch games that are gonna blow my socks off or backwards compatibility games that i don't need a series x for? Because the series x is the straight to dvd release of consoles with old games. They trying to sega channel me? Nah fam. Flex some new shit.

 

[vaibhavpisal]

Craig is awesome. So was 2013 reveal and cross marketing collaboration with Shu.

Games wise they are much better placed with Avowed, Fable and hopefully Halo Infinite

 

[Calverz]

The amount of FUD being created this time is very entertaining.

 

[DarkMage619]

Are these new launch games that are gonna blow my socks off or backwards compatibility games that i don't need a series x for? Because the series x is the straight to dvd release of consoles with old games. They trying to sega channel me? Nah fam. Flex some new shit.

You clearly aren't interested in what they produce. That's ok! Different strokes for different folks. Not everything is for everybody. What you can't say is that they don't have tons of content. That content not appealing to you says more about your tastes than the content.

 

[Redlancet]

For those trying to say that 'Craig' is equivalent is like saying Chernobyl is the same as a brush-fire. Craig-gate hurts, but is not strategically fatal. If anything the question is still open that 2013 is an ongoing fatal wound that is not recoverable.

ok craig its not the only problem,also i love how some chicken legs want to use third person games as a way to dismiss things like ghost ot tushima

 

[Stiflers Mom]

IMO MS 2020 strategy (or lack of) is more damaged to the brand than what happened with Xbox One in 2013.

The 180 together with a launch lineup recovered almost all the bad wom the console had before launch and helped to MS archive record sales... not surprising Xbox One started to get lower sales when MS stopped to release exclusives games plus the price had to be cut with the remove or Kinect... that helped the sales again but the releases stopped to happen that did hurt again.

2013 completely destroyed all the good will they had built up with the 360 over the years.

There is nothing (until) to recover from the bad wom of Series S/X.

Give me some of that juice that gives you the power to look into the future.

 

[DarkMage619]

ok craig its not the only problem,also i love how some chicken legs want to use third person games as a way to dismiss things like ghost ot tushima

Is Ghosts a 3rd person, single player, story driven title like just about all of Sony's heavy hitters? Some people aren't into those types of games. I'm glad MS doesn't really make those because it keeps their offerings different. Some people prefer to play with their friends. No one can say MS is copying Sony and I like that.

 

[The Pleasure]

2013 completely destroyed all the good will they had built up with the 360 over the years.

That's not true. Kinect destroyed all good will in 2010.

 

[KingdomHeartsFan]

Is Ghosts a 3rd person, single player, story driven title like just about all of Sony's heavy hitters? Some people aren't into those types of games. I'm glad MS doesn't really make those because it keeps their offerings different. Some people prefer to play with their friends. No one can say MS is copying Sony and I like that.

The reason Sony's exclusive sales have skyrocketed this gen is because they make unique games that third party devs have abandoned. Its the same thing with Nintendo, they make unique games that third party devs don't so their sales are sky high because they are the only supplier of those games. If you want games to play with your friends there are 99% of third party GAAS AAA games that fill that gap.

 

[kuncol02]

Is Ghosts a 3rd person, single player, story driven title like just about all of Sony's heavy hitters? Some people aren't into those types of games. I'm glad MS doesn't really make those because it keeps their offerings different. Some people prefer to play with their friends. No one can say MS is copying Sony and I like that.

No, It's just another openworld ubiclone like other half of Sony games (Infamous, Spiderman, Horizon, whateverThatZombieGameWasCalled... )

 

[DJT123]

The reason Sony's exclusive sales have skyrocketed this gen is because they make unique games that third party devs have abandoned. Its the same thing with Nintendo, they make unique games that third party devs don't so their sales are sky high because they are the only supplier of those games. If you want games to play with your friends there are 99% of third party GAAS AAA games that fill that gap.

Disagree, they are Ubisoft type 3rd person action adventure games. Not that uncommon.

A major reason is marketing. Sony has an exhaustive, long marketing cycle where they go all-in trying to sell their heavy hitters and play up the exclusivity to their existing base.

 

[KingdomHeartsFan]

Disagree, they are Ubisoft type 3rd person action adventure games. Not that uncommon.

A major reason is marketing. Sony has an exhaustive, long marketing cycle where they go all-in trying to sell their heavy hitters and play up the exclusivity to their existing base.

Even Ubisoft is taking a major shift to GAAS, they don't make any single player games unless its an established series. Even old single player games they bring back like Beyond Good and Evil get changed into GAAS titles. If AC and Far Cry are the only games that Sony first party titles can be compared to then yes they are still unique. Ubisoft is going full GAAS as soon as those series are gone, or Ubisoft finds a way to convert them to GAAS, Ubisoft will never make a new single player IP unless they make a major shift.

 

[Riky]

Xbox One X was a massive step in the right direction, Xbox was always about having the most powerful console with the best online service for me and they got away from that, big mistake. Series X puts them back on top of the power game and they have a new angle with Series S that might work.
The games not being "exclusive" because they come to PC is a very limited view, in the real world I don't know ANYBODY with a gaming PC but plenty with an Xbox.
Most of these people play Call Of Duty, Madden/FIFA, Minecraft and GTA. They wouldn't know any Sony exclusives or be interested in them.

 

[PropellerEar]

XSeX is much better than XBone, but does that matter? Not really, they made the slowest and least powerful next gen console to hold back their fist party and totally fuck over all multiplatform game devs.
For me XSeS in 2020 is worse offense than Kinect and TV TV TV combined in 2013.

XBone had quality launch games, XSe(X/S) nothing for launch.
Their biggest franchise became the biggest joke of 2020.

Spence, Booty, Greenberg, Hryb all need to go.

 

[Knightime_X]

Don't be silly.
It was easily recoverable.

Actual fatal mistake would be to not ever fix the fuck ups and it's clear as day MS fixed them all and then some.

 

[Majima Everywhere System]

2013 being a mess sometimes fails to register for me because Xbox became a non entity to me at that point.

MS had already lost me with Kinekt and avatars. Wifi was an add on. HDMI, battery packs, Gold, Hard drives, 4 dead xboxs. Playstation was no saint with their online messes but it was less of a chore. By the time MS started fucking up hard with the Xbox One, it wasnt heart wrenching for the Xbox OG fan in me.

They were all dead to me. That company was a mess of chasing shit that didnt matter. And they were swirling the bowl. 2020 seems worse only because they have hearts and minds, but really they released games all summer instead of holding them for launch. They just seem to not be worried about hype, probably because they dont need to sell consoles at a loss this year for you to enjoy Gamepass.

 

[Shmunter]

Even Ubisoft is taking a major shift to GAAS, they don't make any single player games unless its an established series. Even old single player games they bring back like Beyond Good and Evil get changed into GAAS titles. If AC and Far Cry are the only games that Sony first party titles can be compared to then yes they are still unique. Ubisoft is going full GAAS as soon as those series are gone, or Ubisoft finds a way to convert them to GAAS, Ubisoft will never make a new single player IP unless they make a major shift.

Lack of Splinter Cell is telling

 

[DJT123]

Even Ubisoft is taking a major shift to GAAS, they don't make any single player games unless its an established series. Even old single player games they bring back like Beyond Good and Evil get changed into GAAS titles. If AC and Far Cry are the only games that Sony first party titles can be compared to then yes they are still unique. Ubisoft is going full GAAS as soon as those series are gone, or Ubisoft finds a way to convert them to GAAS, Ubisoft will never make a new single player IP unless they make a major shit.

It's good Sony still do things the traditional retail way-Nintendo too- and that it works for them. I just wonder how sustainable it will be. The likes of MS are doing crazy shit now; they're laying down a marker like Amazon did in the early days and playing a really long game.

 

[KingdomHeartsFan]

Lack of Splinter Cell is telling

If by some miracle Splinter Cell comes back and its an offline single player game with linear levels I will praise them to the moon. The reality is if it comes back its gonna be online only like Hitman and probably have some persistent world or weekly missions that disappear so you better finish them on time.

 

[KingdomHeartsFan]

It's good Sony still do things the traditional retail way-Nintendo too- and that it works for them. I just wonder how sustainable it will be. The likes of MS are doing crazy shit now; they're laying down a marker like Amazon did in the early days and playing a really long game.

If everyone was doing it I'd say its not sustainable, but their first party sales have never been higher because they have way less competition. If their sales stay this high I don't see how its not sustainable, their games are probably profitable after only a week on sale. They got like 4 games on the top 10 of the NDP or some shit.

 

[DavidGzz]

ok craig its not the only problem,also i love how some chicken legs want to use third person games as a way to dismiss things like ghost ot tushima

Login • Instagram

Welcome back to Instagram. Sign in to check out what your friends, family & interests have been capturing & sharing around the world.

www.instagram.com

-- Don't know if that worked.
Davidgzz1981 on Instagram if you want a peepshow since you're so concerned on if I work my whole body that you made that profile pic just for me. Seems stalkerish.

Dismissing my GoTG? Sure. I'm dismissing people dismissing XGS, they are doing great and there is more to come!

My legs are fine. Steroid free. *smooches*

Mr. trolls MS threads running wild.

 

[Redlancet]

Do you have the confirmed launch list?

th¡¡¡

Login • Instagram

Welcome back to Instagram. Sign in to check out what your friends, family & interests have been capturing & sharing around the world.

www.instagram.com

-- Don't know if that worked.
Davidgzz1981 on Instagram if you want a peepshow since you're so concerned on if I work my whole body that you made that profile pic just for me. Seems stalkerish.

Dismissing my GoTG? Sure. I'm dismissing people dismissing XGS, they are doing great and there is more to come!

My legs are fine. Steroid free. *smooches*

Mr. trolls MS threads running wild.

lol what a meltdown,are you fine? who is talking about you? dude you feel so insecure ,take your time out of gaming forums my man
btw i dont want your instagram,in cis,and have good taste