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Xbox Dev Demonstrates NVIDIA GeForce RTX 2080 Ti & Xbox Series X Mesh Shaders Performance With DirectX 12 Ultimate API

sonomamashine

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What a movie man, what a movie...
I cried and was confused for days
you shouldn't have, was stressful that's for sure.
Makes sense I missed it... it was near my son birth... 0 time to movie since.

I will try to find it to watch.

These days I and wife were discussing... let’s watch a movie now that our baby did sleep... we started to search for one when I realized “Love. You wake up in 6 hours to work... do you really want to watch a 2 hours movie?”. Obvious she rejected the movie.
(y) take care of your kid(s).
 
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Once you realize that everyone has biases to some degree and you can never be sure how much they are actually trying to be objective or rational, you can then start to use your intelligence and rationality to see past the bias and look at the facts if there are any and compare them, challenge them or learn from them. Simply hand waving away anyone's opinion just because you think they are "bias" is a good way to try to live in your own comfortable narrative and leave your intelligence unchallenged. Thereby strengthening your own bias... Like trying to make a snowball in a freezer one snowflake at a time... Gotta keep it safe!
 
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Proelite

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The Xsx in the demo is a 13.1TF devkit. That's 13% slower than a 2080TI that's probably running at around 15+ teraflops, and it's evident in the performance too.

RTX 2080TI: 40us at 1440p
Xsx: 102us at 4k

4k is 2.25x 1440p.
Xsx is running 2.55x slower due to running at 4k.

That works out to Xsx devkit being ~13% slow than a 15+ teraflops RTX 2080TI.

I expect in the real world the Xsx to perform at least as well as a 2080 Super at peak game clock. Which is what VFXVeteran VFXVeteran said.
 
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ethomaz

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Congrats hope you are all doing Well!
Yeap it is being awesome... the only sad part is that our planned a birthday party for him but it needed to be canceled due Coronavirus :(

We will try to make it when he has 1.2 years if the situation get better.

In Brasil everything is closing except essencial services like drugstore and supermarket.
 
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Kenpachii

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DF is much like your average youtuber fun to read the facts, other then facts they are useless. They are good for pixel counting and some random info and that's about it.

If that guy from DF wants to be taken seriously he should probably take DF out of his account name.
 
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Goliathy

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DF is much like your average youtuber fun to read the facts, other then facts they are useless. They are good for pixel counting and some random info and that's about it.

If that guy from DF wants to be taken seriously he should probably take DF out of his account name.
That’s why both - Microsoft and Sony - show them their console/have an interview with them about the console before talking to ANYONE ELSE?
Cerny had an interview with DF BEFORE ANYONE ELSE and they will even SHARE MORE info that DF directly receive from Sony in the coming week. Yeah.
 
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B-b-b-but everyone keeps telling me the XSX has no optimizations and just brute-forces its way through solutions!!! Are you telling me they're....lying?!?

Okay all that aside this looks pretty nifty. Will be cool to see it used for next-gen gaming. It'll be particularly helpful for speeding up graphics development in 3rd-party titles between PC and XSX. Curious what Sony's version might be and how friendly it'll be for 3rd-party developers who want console & PC ecosystem support.
 

psorcerer

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So are you agreeing with me Dictator is biased because he is basically calling Cerny a liar.

You don’t need to more goal post to me I never said I’m anybody lol
And I don’t want to be Dictator lol
Who wants? lol
OMG, I replied to this post in b3d by Dictator https://forum.beyond3d.com/posts/2113251/
Challenging his assumptions.
And now it's silently deleted. It's not in my post history, nowhere to be found.
 
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Shin

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Ahahaha Alex laid the smack down.
I listed/watched that Minecraft RT/XS demo and it was apparent that he's more knowledgeable than even John.
He knew more overall and was dominating the conversion, just like he did in those messages with self proclaimed tech savvy fans, NX Gamer included.
The guy is well informed, it's bound to crush some ego's and leave a nasty taste in people's mouth but I can respect someone that knows exactly what they are talking about.
 

Kenpachii

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B-b-b-but everyone keeps telling me the XSX has no optimizations and just brute-forces its way through solutions!!! Are you telling me they're....lying?!?

Okay all that aside this looks pretty nifty. Will be cool to see it used for next-gen gaming. It'll be particularly helpful for speeding up graphics development in 3rd-party titles between PC and XSX. Curious what Sony's version might be and how friendly it'll be for 3rd-party developers who want console & PC ecosystem support.
Non of this is helping your point.

I also do not disagree with dictates or whatever that guy was called from DF in his reaction he actually makes sense there. i just pointed out that they guy gets ridiculed because of his DF signature which sits on a payroll at the end of the day by his audience / contracts / sponsorships / ads etc. Once u get exclusives / early access / paid by something u simple aren't neutral anymore.

Cerny also came out with lots of claims which we have to see if it's going to materialize at the end of the day. As of now xbox spanks the PS5 and there is no other way around it.

What sony needs to do is come out sooner then later with a demonstration on why they choose something and why it matters. Instead of the disaster they showcased with a guy that lacks any charisma.
 
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Non of this is helping your point.

I also do not disagree with dictates or whatever that guy was called from DF in his reaction he actually makes sense there. i just pointed out that they guy gets ridiculed because of his DF signature which sits on a payroll at the end of the day by his audience / contracts / sponsorships / ads etc. Once u get exclusives / early access / paid by something u talk about u simple aren't neutral anymore.

Cerny also came out with lots of claims which we have to see if it's going to materialize at the end of the day. As of now xbox spanks the PS5 and there is no other way around it.
The thing about DF though, is that they have plenty of competition with anyone else able to do the same exact tests they do. So while they may have various biases, that stops when they do the tests as long as they are doing them in an objective and scientific manner.
 
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Non of this is helping your point.

I also do not disagree with dictates or whatever that guy was called from DF in his reaction he actually makes sense there. i just pointed out that they guy gets ridiculed because of his DF signature which sits on a payroll at the end of the day by his audience / contracts / sponsorships / ads etc. Once u get exclusives / early access / paid by something u talk about u simple aren't neutral anymore.

Cerny also came out with lots of claims which we have to see if it's going to materialize at the end of the day. As of now xbox spanks the PS5 and there is no other way around it.

What sony needs to do is come out sooner then later with a demonstration on why they choose something and why it matters. Instead of the disaster they showcased with a guy that lacks any charisma.
You sure you meant to quote me there? That was my first post in this thread :LOL:

I was just poking fun at the people who keep insisting the XSX is just "literally" a PC in a box with no customizations and optimizations for console gaming in mind. Some upset folks've been running with that fake narrative hard since Wednesday and it' just funny to see them keep insisting it true when evidence shows the opposite.

Dunno what all the DF convo ATM is about :S

The Dreamcast was truly ahead of its time.
Did DC do something like mesh textures? I know it used deferred rendering (which VRS seems like an evolution of). But yeah, DC was clearly ahead of its time. Champ of an innovator 🖖
 
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psorcerer

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What sony needs to do is come out sooner then later with a demonstration on why they choose something and why it matters. Instead of the disaster they showcased with a guy that lacks any charisma.
Well, I do understand what they are doing and why.
Will it pan out, dunno, but it's clear what they want.
 

Kenpachii

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You sure you meant to quote me there? That was my first post in this thread :LOL:

I was just poking fun at the people who keep insisting the XSX is just "literally" a PC in a box with no customizations and optimizations for console gaming in mind. Some upset folks've been running with that fake narrative hard since Wednesday and it' just funny to see them keep insisting it true when evidence shows the opposite.

Dunno what all the DF convo ATM is about :S



Did DC do something like mesh textures? I know it used deferred rendering (which VRS seems like an evolution of). But yeah, DC was clearly ahead of its time. Champ of an innovator 🖖
Dunno anymore, got like 10 things going on right now haha. probably wanted to quote somebody else my bad.
 

ethomaz

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Sounds like you got off easy.
I got all my posts deleted and got permabanned from Era for saying that Schreier came off badly for defending the PS5 like he did.
Weird the delete thing because my posts are all there yet including the ban lost.
Not surprise about the pernaban... they basically ban everybody that question their “ideias”.
 
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ethomaz

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ethomaz, the guy that was such a colossal Sony fanboy that even VGChartz permanently banned him, is questioning the integrity of someone else? Like what in the actual fuck.
I never said I’m not a fanboy.
The opposite I don’t even take fanboy as a bad word (I already explained that in GAF)... there is absolutely no issue being one.

:pie_eyeroll:
 
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Rightisright

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Weird the delete thing because my posts are all there yet including the ban lost.
Not surprise about the pernaban... they basically ban everybody that question their “ideias”.
I think Jason messaged the mods and demanded they delete the posts.
 
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psorcerer

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What did you tell him exactly ? You should share it here.
I didn't save that post.
But I said that concern that PS5 "is not really" RDNA2 because Cerny did not mention all the RDNA2 features seems strange.
Because these features are so minor and removing them from the silicon would be much harder task then leaving them there.
And if the concern is for power profile, then I think Cerny would gladly remove RT instead, which indeed can save some SoC space.
 
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ethomaz

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I didn't save that post.
But I said that concern that PS5 "is not really" RDNA2 because Cerny did not mention all the RDNA2 features seems strange.
Because these features are so minor and removing them from the silicon would be much harder task then leaving them there.
And if the concern is for power profile, then I think Cerny would gladly remove RT instead, which indeed can save some SoC space.
He said MS directly said RDNA 2.0 while Sony said RDNA 2.0 based.
It is weird to try to create that narrative when MS used RDNA 2.0 based, RDNA 2.0 class, etc other times just like Sony.

It is the same talk Xbox fans tried to create with RT hardware acceleration or RT hardware based that ended both being the same RDNA 2.0 feature.

His mentality will always try to find gaps where that seems to make Xbox better while seems to make PS5 worst.

It is fine for anybody except a guy that wants to be a industry professional and worst a journalist.
 
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eastwood333

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Others: PS5 doesn’t that like that.
DF bias: No. Xbox does everything better.
Others: Cerny said it works like that and that on PS5.
DF bias: No. Xbox does everything better.

Why even try? :messenger_tears_of_joy:

It will be fun if their article started to shows PS5 version of the games having the edge.... how he will spin.
Whats going to be fun is watching all the nutty sony fanboys crying for the entire gen when XSX versions win every single DF Head to Head….but don't worry, you sony fans will get dat 1-3 sec faster load times. Whats really going to be interesting is if both consoles launch at same price.

Been following Dictator since he first started posting on this site. He is a PC gamer. He has no bias for either console platforms. He's just speaking what he believes based on all his knowledge and research.

XSX also has more room for upping clocks in the future
 
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I didn't save that post.
But I said that concern that PS5 "is not really" RDNA2 because Cerny did not mention all the RDNA2 features seems strange.
Because these features are so minor and removing them from the silicon would be much harder task then leaving them there.
And if the concern is for power profile, then I think Cerny would gladly remove RT instead, which indeed can save some SoC space.
Do you think it's possible Sony may've removed RT from some CUs but left it intact with most of the others? It seems the American and Japanese side have been debating w.r.t the costs and BOM for a while now. For example the PS5 going with 14Gbps chips because the Japanese side favored it.

It's part of the reason I think the MSRP could be at-cost or even slightly for-profit, and if the BOM is estimated at $450, makes me thin the MSRP could be at least $450 as well.
 

ethomaz

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Whats going to be fun is watching all the nutty sony fanboys crying for the entire gen when XSX versions win every single DF Head to Head….but don't worry, you sony fans will get dat 1-3 sec faster load times. Whats really going to be interesting is if both consoles launch at same price.
Will Xbox win every DF Head to Head?
You know the opposite can happen ;)
 
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ethomaz

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Do you think it's possible Sony may've removed RT from some CUs but left it intact with most of the others? It seems the American and Japanese side have been debating w.r.t the costs and BOM for a while now. For example the PS5 going with 14Gbps chips because the Japanese side favored it.

It's part of the reason I think the MSRP could be at-cost or even slightly for-profit, and if the BOM is estimated at $450, makes me thin the MSRP could be at least $450 as well.
That BOM is a estimate without know the real parts of the consoles for both Xbox and PS5.

It is a bit hard to make a reliable estimate without have the consoles in hands.
 

psorcerer

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It is the same talk Xbox fans tried to create with RT hardware acceleration or RT hardware based that ended both being the same RDNA 2.0 feature.
Yep. It's a clear spin.

Do you think it's possible Sony may've removed RT from some CUs but left it intact with most of the others?
You cannot. RT must start from shader and pass data back to shader.
It would not work.
 
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Armorian

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Yeap you can.
You just need to understand his level of wording... 20% is staggering so 40% is what?
We know that 20-30% power difference is for rasterization, but most games next gen will have some form of RT in them and Xbox is probably faster in that by bigger factor than flops tell us so far. And if PS5 doesn't support VRS then this power gap will just get wider...

I have a hard time believing a good percentage of modern open world games rely on procedurally generated content. I believe games like DS and HZD have handcrafted content mostly. Can anyone confirm if this is the case? P psorcerer
 
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psorcerer

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I have a hard time believing a good percentage of modern open world games rely on procedurally generated content. I believe games like DS and HZD have handcrafted content mostly. Can anyone confirm if this is the case?
They do. HZD relies heavily on procedural content.
But. It doesn't change the idea of a better detail due to faster SSD.
Both things are needed.
Procedural: to reduce grunt work, ease load on artists.
Fast data streaming: to realize artistic design, after all if everything is procedural it looks generic and boring as fuck.

P.S. essentially:
PS5: more art in games
XSeX: more generic stuff
Which one will win: who knows, but Sony are well known for their hugely artistic exclusive games, so it's no wonder they pull in that direction.
 
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Journey

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Others: PS5 doesn’t that like that.
DF bias: No. Xbox does everything better.
Others: Cerny said it works like that and that on PS5.
DF bias: No. Xbox does everything better.

Why even try? :messenger_tears_of_joy:

It will be fun if their article started to shows PS5 version of the games having the edge.... how he will spin.
What will be even more fun is bookmarking this for when XSX games outperform PS5 games and you start spinning like a top, maybe claiming that DF tests are rigged LMAO :messenger_tears_of_joy:
 

ethomaz

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We know that 20-30% power difference is for rasterization, but most games next gen will have some form of RT in them and Xbox is probably faster in that by bigger factor than flops tell us so far. And if PS5 doesn't support VRS than this power gap will just get wider...
Why people try to make VRS something exclusive? PS5 hardware support VRS... all RDNA 2.0 hardware support it... nVidia GPUs support it... Intel new GPUs support it.

Now about the RT different if it is like the patent then we have:

Xbox: 52 units @ 1825Mhz (? I just forget the actual clock)
PS5: 36 units @ 2230Mhz

Xbox has 18% more power in RT (the same difference in rasterization... 18%).

You will say PS5 won’t hold these 18% but from Cerny words it will and drop in some cases 2% so we can assume 20% on average.

There are GPU parts where PS5 is up to 22% stronger than Xbox too.
 
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psorcerer

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They do. HZD relies heavily on procedural content.
But. It doesn't change the idea of a better detail due to faster SSD.
Both things are needed.
Procedural: to reduce grunt work, ease load on artists.
Fast data streaming: to realize artistic design, after all if everything is procedural it looks generic and boring as fuck.

P.S. essentially:
PS5: more art in games
XSeX: more generic stuff
Which one will win: who knows, but Sony are well known for their hugely artistic exclusive games, so it's no wonder they pull in that direction.
P.P.S. BTW, "photorealistic" = boring. By definition. So it's not that "boring" is bad, some people like it.
 
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That BOM is a estimate without know the real parts of the consoles for both Xbox and PS5.

It is a bit hard to make a reliable estimate without have the consoles in hands.
That's true, but if Bloomberg has their own sources I'd trust they did some research/investigation into things before putting an article like that public. They won't get all the estimates to the BOM right but they likely aren't far off from the actual BOMs, either.
 
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I never said I’m not a fanboy.
The opposite I don’t even take fanboy as a bad word (I already explained that in GAF)... there is absolutely no issue being one.

:pie_eyeroll:
It's easier to differentiate between someone who's just being a fan rather than a fanboy. As one is going to be far more unreasoned than the other when approached with logic and facts that are unfavorable to them. A fan will fall back on preference and it won't even bother him much (However, if he was engaged with a fanboy this would infuriate the fanboy). A fanboy will go all out with the twisting and is "secretly" or rather, very obviously emotionally worked up by it. I love talking about and learning new things with people so that we can all grow and be better off for it. But it's so hard to do these days with all the fanboys who just want to run in circles and crush their enemies at all cost so they can stand on top of the hill and shout, "Hey! Look at me!" while their weeping opponents tears turn the hill into an island for them to rule in their minds. It's just all so tiring.
 

quest

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That's true, but if Bloomberg has their own sources I'd trust they did some research/investigation into things before putting an article like that public. They won't get all the estimates to the BOM right but they likely aren't far off from the actual BOMs, either.
This was before knowing the SSD and cooling the bom is higher than that estimate. Cooling this thing in a traditional console package is going to be a premium and some.
 

ethomaz

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What will be even more fun is bookmarking this for when XSX games outperform PS5 games and you start spinning like a top, maybe claiming that DF tests are rigged LMAO :messenger_tears_of_joy:
Remember to quote me please if the opposite happens too ;)
I want to laugh with you.
 
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CitizenX3639

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A known racist and not really a gamer in any sense of the form as one of your most vocal slaves, that is funny AH to me. Typical of 99% of twitter and YT
 

ethomaz

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It's easier to differentiate between someone who's just being a fan rather than a fanboy. As one is going to be far more unreasoned than the other when approached with logic and facts that are unfavorable to them. A fan will fall back on preference and it won't even bother him much (However, if he was engaged with a fanboy this would infuriate the fanboy). A fanboy will go all out with the twisting and is "secretly" or rather, very obviously emotionally worked up by it. I love talking about and learning new things with people so that we can all grow and be better off for it. But it's so hard to do these days with all the fanboys who just want to run in circles and crush their enemies at all cost so they can stand on top of the hill and shout, "Hey! Look at me!" while their weeping opponents tears turn the hill into an island for them to rule in their minds. It's just all so tiring.
That is why I have to correct a lot claims in that site... some fake news really become a thing that people believes.