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Xbox - I need to get my thoughts out..

Jun 13, 2020
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Nothing they showed look like it would give PS5 a hard time running but ok lol
Judging from what?
The specs? :messenger_beaming:
30fps gameplay of ratchet?:messenger_beaming:
Orrr maybe from gtsport car models running at 4k/60 with popups and shadow creeps instead of r/t?:messenger_beaming:

If you could think about it, both benchmarks that ms showed and you mock, back when they initially showed the hardware months ago, are more technically impressive than sony's recent gameplay unveiling.
 
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onQ123

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But back to the topic Microsoft isn't fighting with Sony for the console space anymore they know the bigger battle ground is with Google , Apple & Amazon on multiply devices.
 

onQ123

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Judging from what?
The specs? :messenger_beaming:
30fps gameplay of ratchet?:messenger_beaming:
Orrr maybe from gtsport car models running at 4k/60 with popups and shadow creeps instead of r/t?:messenger_beaming:

If you could think about it, both benchmarks that ms showed and you mock, back when they initially showed the hardware months ago, are more technically impressive than sony's recent gameplay unveiling.

Lie to yourself not me lol
 

MrFunSocks

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Gran Turismo 7 with a bunch of issues, none of their major games had any gameplay.

GT7 can't be classified as gameplay anyway. GT trailers are always "in engine" with absolutely every post processing effect that they can possibly throw at it with higher quality models, and they are 100% not to be considered gameplay. Same with Forza "in engine" trailers. They're basically just concept videos for all that matters.


Nothing they showed look like it would give PS5 a hard time running but ok lol
I am absolutely shocked that no-one has managed to wring every last bit of performance out of a console 4 months or so before release. Absolutely shocked! What have these lazy devs been doing!?!

We've basically seen nothing from anyone. Where you'll likely see differences will be like this generation and the last generation - resolution and framerate and effect quality. This gen the PS4 had more of all that, until the X and Pro came out and then the X had more of everything. Last gen the 360 had more of everything. Next gen the XSX will have more of everything since it's unquestionably more powerful. Like with the X and Pro, if a game looks worse or performs worse on the X it will be due to poor optimization on the devs part.
 
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onQ123

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Ask any techically proficient person and he'll tell you more or less the same thing.

No they will not & the fact that you think a ~20 compute advantage while other parts are running at a lower clock rate is going to be able to do things that PS5 can't do says a lot. There could be some special things going on with Xbox SX hardware that might give it a bigger advantage than the ~20% compute advantage , faster RAM & higher CPU clock show but nothing they have showed is out of reach of the PS5 specs.
 
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Investor9872

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Don't feel bad, there are many who feel the same way as you do. Keep your fingers crossed for a better showing this month.

I'm hopeful as well, because if Microsoft wants my money, then they will have to do a hell of a lot better than they did this past showing, which the word disappointment would have been way too generous. It was egregious!
 

MrFunSocks

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No they will not & the fact that you think a ~20 compute advantage while other parts are running at a lower clock rate is going to be able to do things that PS5 can't do says a lot. There could be some special things going on with Xbox SX hardware that might give it a bigger advantage than the ~20% compute advantage , faster RAM & higher CPU clock show but nothing they have showed is out of reach of the PS5 specs.
Because all both companies have shown are "in engine" trailers lol. The consoles haven't even released yet. You're not going to see differences in pre-release "in engine" trailers. Where you'll see the difference is, like I said, the XSX version of third party games being native 4K vs checkerboard 4K, or 60fps vs ~50fps for example, like with the X and Pro.

I'm hopeful as well, because if Microsoft wants my money, then they will have to do a hell of a lot better than they did this past showing, which the word disappointment would have been way too generous. It was egregious!

I just don't understand what you guys are wanting them to show? 95% of all games are multiplatform every year. The first 1-2 years of every generation is almost all cross-generation games and barely any first party games. Both companies have just shown all 3rd party "in engine" trailers and a few first party ones for games that aren't releasing for years.

What exactly were you expecting? How do you feel about Sony's showing, which was almost identical in terms of content? Is the word disappointment way too generous for that too?
 
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SlimySnake

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Before I even start, this is NOT a hate thread. If anything my frustration comes from love. Really I've just been thinking about this a lot since the showcase last month, and needed to put my thoughts into words. I'm going to put my thoughts into categories starting with the current console.

Xbox One: Gonna make this relatively quick. They fucked up, and fucked up early giving the generation away before it started. The last few years though got me hyped again. They released two great consoles in the Xbox One S and X, and Playground gave up 2 of the best racing games ever made with Horizon 3/4. It gave me hope for the next console, along with the ridiculous value that GamePass holds. They really turned it around bringing me to my next point..

Series X: I feel let down. The beginning of the marketing was great. That initial reveal trailer got me pretty damn hyped, and the thought of a next gen Halo (one of my favorite franchises) was so enticing despite 4/5/MCC being a letdown personally in many ways (though great in others).
  • Their marketing has taken a roll downhill. They seem to contradict themselves left and right making it confusing as to what is actually the truth. They have hyped up showcases only for them to come out and be completely underwhelming. Their ecosystem strategy is on one hand pretty cool, but on the other frustrating. I think it's great for some people that especially in these times may not have the money to shell out for a new console, and they've stated that their first party games will be cross-get for awhile (2 years maybe?). I think it also just removes a lot of the hype for a new console. New consoles should give up new things to be excited about, new things possible by developing specifically for a new console (especially a console without a shit CPU, and slow HDD). But what is true? Multiple games have be shown as Series X exclusive from their 1st party studios so the question is: Are these games simply just so far out that they aren't part of the original statement? Or are you picking and choosing and therefore confusing people?
  • Do you want people to buy your new console? Or do you not care? Do console generations matter or not? It's all so unclear from their marketing which is disappointing.
  • What games come out at launch outside of Halo? A Series X port of some years old games like Horizon 4 and Gears 5? We are getting a console launch without a NEW flagship racing title, and that seems weird.

Game showcases: Some great games have been shown in these but overall were pretty underwhelming. I remember liking some games but outside of The Medium I can't actually pick out a single game that I'm like oh fuck yeah lets go. First one was a "Gameplay Showcase" almost completely void of gameplay. Then they hyped up a First Party showcase which let a lot of people down. You have Rare's game that they don't even know what it is yet. Then you have Fable which was a short teaser and completely CGI. It's like that ESVI teaser. Just why? If it's so far out that you can't show us anything more then CGI teaser then why show us anything at all? And then ...

Halo: I love Halo despite getting a late start on it. I've read the books, I've spent hundreds of hours playing, hundreds of hours reading lore and watching lore videos. The world of Halo is just so rich.
  • I don't want to focus on graphics as if the game is "open world" then it is harder to push fidelity then something like 4/5. Outside of 3/Reach Halo has never been a graphical showcase IMO but a flagship next gen title SHOULD look better then upscaled Halo Reach from 2010. BUT my problem is they kept this under wraps for soooo long which built up hype so so high despite 343i's other games being looked down on by many (I have my problems with those but that's not the point of the thread).
  • We are 3-4 months out from the launch of the consoles, they are on bug fix duty at this point. This won't be fixed by launch, and it reminds me of MCC which has the worst launch of any game I can think of. You can't delay Halo without delaying Series X and it's too late to delay the console. If they had shown us that in like March or April it wouldn't have been nearly as big of a disappointment to see a game that looks much worse then Halo 5 on XBO X. Gameplay looks pretty good but animations and effects just quit and disappear immediately. It's just obvious it's not ready for release. But then 343i tells us they are aware of the criticisms but remind us that it's pushing a new audio engine? What?
  • The announcement of F2P Multiplayer (and 120fps as well on Series X) got me hyped initially but then I remembered what goes hand in hand with F2P games...microtransactions. You could point to Warzone as a way to not ruin a F2P game with them but COD has never really been about deep customization. Halo has been and I can see them ruining it with micro transactions. You want this cool shoulder armor? Well pay for it. This visor? Pay for it. Does it affect the gameplay? No but it is integral in what makes Halo MP customizable without attachments and weapons like in COD.

I want Xbox to wow me so badly. I want to go out and buy a Series X and play an epic mind blowing Halo game. I want to play a gorgeous 60/120fps racing title. I want competition back. I want Xbox to do something great, and make Sony do better as well. Now I have issues with PS5 as well, and honestly neither of the new consoles are really making it known why I should buy them this fall.

I am frustrated because I love Xbox as a brand. I don't want this to turn into console war bullshit, but I just felt like I needed to put my thoughts into words.
The problem is MS has never wanted to be a games console. They entered this industry under false pretenses and have been trying to convince us that they know better. They dont.

This isnt about Halo looking bad or cross gen being proconsumer or the next gen games not being ready, this is about what Microsoft wants from the gaming industry, and it's not games. They dont get it. It's pretty simple if you look at Nintendo and Sony's output. This shouldn't take a genius to figure out, and yet here we are, 7 years after their biggest fuck up, they are making the same mistakes again. It simply shouldn't happen.

They wanted kinect and tv tv tv last gen, and they want gamepass next gen. They have XBL Gold as a sub, but they want more. Microsoft is all about services right now. They dont want to sell consoles. They want to sell services. You can see what they have done with Office and the Azure cloud. Windows is no longer their main concern. And that's what they are doing with gamepass. They are executing a plan thinking/hoping it would work, but this plan simply isnt for hardcore gamers. As always, they are chasing the casual market. The XSX is the most powerful console ever built according to MS, and yet not a single game from their studios is taking full advantage of it for the first 2-3 years. Sony will have a mid gen console out by then. So what gives? Lockhart gives. Lockhart is their trump card, their main console next gen. They want to lower the barrier of entry just like they did with MS office. If this thing comes out for $299, they will have gamepass with a bunch of B games to put on there. Make no mistake, this will be their main console, the xsx is just for Timdog and co.

Any good company wouldve had games ready for launch or launch window, if not the first year. PS3 famously had a bad launch and launch window, but if you look back, in its first year they wouldve released Resistance, Motorstorm, Uncharted, ratchet, Warhawk and Heavenly sword. Yet MS has nothing. Absolutely nothing. They are simply not in the business for the right reasons. Or rather the reasons you and I want them to be in. They will always chase subscribers.
 

onQ123

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Because all both companies have shown are "in engine" trailers lol. The consoles haven't even released yet. You're not going to see differences in pre-release "in engine" trailers. Where you'll see the difference is, like I said, the XSX version of third party games being native 4K vs checkerboard 4K, or 60fps vs ~50fps for example, like with the X and Pro.



I just don't understand what you guys are wanting them to show? 95% of all games are multiplatform every year. The first 1-2 years of every generation is almost all cross-generation games and barely any first party games. Both companies have just shown all 3rd party "in engine" trailers and a few first party ones for games that aren't releasing for years.

What exactly were you expecting? How do you feel about Sony's showing, which was almost identical in terms of content? Is the word disappointment way too generous for that too?

This isn't like the PS4 Pro & Xbox One X , Xbox One X had more RAM & had a higher clocked GPU plus it came out a year later at $100 more.
 
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MrFunSocks

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This isn't like the PS4 Pro & Xbox One X , Xbox One X had more RAM & had a higher clocked GPU plus it came out a year later at $100 more.
But in terms of specs it kinda is. Far more CUs, faster RAM for the GPU, 2TF more power. Games will run better and look better on the XSX, probably in the same way they do on the X compared to the Pro.

There's no secret sauce in the PS5 that's going to become apparent one day and make up for the 2TF less power. This is the FP16 bullshit all over again. Why do I feel like I remember your name from those threads?

Any good company wouldve had games ready for launch or launch window, if not the first year. PS3 famously had a bad launch and launch window, but if you look back, in its first year they wouldve released Resistance, Motorstorm, Uncharted, ratchet, Warhawk and Heavenly sword. Yet MS has nothing. Absolutely nothing. They are simply not in the business for the right reasons. Or rather the reasons you and I want them to be in. They will always chase subscribers.
Where are all those first party PS5 games at for launch?
 
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onQ123

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But in terms of specs it kinda is. Far more CUs, faster RAM for the GPU, 2TF more power. Games will run better and look better on the XSX, probably in the same way they do on the X compared to the Pro.

There's no secret sauce in the PS5 that's going to become apparent one day and make up for the 2TF less power. This is the FP16 bullshit all over again. Why do I feel like I remember your name from those threads?


Where are all those first party PS5 games at for launch?


You're still ignoring that PS5 has the higher clock which means that everything outside of the compute units that have the same amount of parts will benefit from the higher clock this isn't some secret sauce.
 

recma12

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When it comes to Xbox since ca. 2016 I always have to think about this The Wire quote:

That's good. That's like a 40-degree day. Ain't nobody got nothing to say about a 40-degree day. Fifty. Bring a smile to your face. Sixty, shit, niggas is damn near barbecuing on that motherf***er. Go down to 20, niggas get their bitch on. Get their blood complaining. But forty? Nobody give a f*** about 40. Nobody remember 40, and y'all niggas is giving me way too many 40-degree days! What the f***?

Phil Spencer and them are giving me too many 40 degree days.
Sony hasn't exactly killed it with the PS5 so far (weird design, no massive launch games) but Xbox really dropped the ball.
Halo Infinite was supposed to be a "banger" but it didn't turn any heads.
When it comes to buying a 500-600€ I really don't want to hear that PCs and older devices can run this shit too.
Why shouldn't I just get a Xbox 1 X or S ?

inb4 "fanboy" accusations:
I owned the OG Xbox, picked the 360 over a PS3 and went day one with X1 back in 2014.
In 2015 I bought a PS4 to play Bloodborne and went on to sell my X1 a few months later.
Am totally ready to jump back in but they haven't given me a good reason.
 
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MrFunSocks

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You're still ignoring that PS5 has the higher clock which means that everything outside of the compute units that have the same amount of parts will benefit from the higher clock this isn't some secret sauce.
Only we don't know how often the PS5 will have that higher clock speed, only that it won't be that clock speed all the time. Will a slightly higher variable clock speed outweigh having almost 50% less CUs and a consistent clock speed? My guess would be no. Variable clock speed is not a good thing, it's a compromise that seems like it was made to try and bump that TF number up.
 

AGRacing

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If you don't know what Sony is capable of making over the entire life of their consoles, after this many years, then nothing would convince you. Sony already told you what they will do by what they have done historically; releasing 1st party AAA exclusives all through the console's life. If you are still in doubt then you weren't paying attention.

I always end up buying both consoles.... we're talking about launch. You can't play a promise on launch day, buddy.

I just find it a little disingenuous to rag on Microsoft for a launch game when PS5 has yet to announce one.
 
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I always end up buying both consoles.... we're talking about launch. You can't play a promise on launch day, buddy.

I just find it a little disingenuous to rag on Microsoft for a launch game when PS5 has yet to announce one.
Microsoft did not have a good history, Sony does. That matters. Your desire for both companies to be treated equally as if neither had ever released consoles before, is simply impossible.

Microsoft is being punished for past actions. It's called consequences.

PS5 is going to announce launch games, and we know they would because we have past records to look at. If you don't want to use past history as information then what else could you use?
 

Tschumi

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I am frustrated because I love Xbox as a brand.
Thanks very much for your hard work writing the post, and I'm sorry to quote you just to focus on this one sentence, but could you tell me exactly what the Xbox brand is? I'm really not trying to troll! For me, xBox og was about superior graphics and a better controller. Then 360 seemed to be the frat gamer console.. what is it now? To you? What did it stand for, which is now under threat?

---

I think we're growing up with these consoles. Think about it, it's been about 20 years since really legit 3D games were first brought out, so as we have (most of us) grown into adulthood, these consoles have been produced linearly, more or less from a pretty clear starting point (the ps2/xbox/gcn generation). So the length of time they these modern style consoles have been a thing has stretched, giving us new perspectives.

This seems to be evidenced in how much earlier game hype is being seeded. I remember that people were hugely annoyed by how long it took for half Life 1 to turn into half Life 2! And now we have cyberpunk being in production for a cool 6ish years, and Skyrim still a mainstream title, a decade later? As our lives lengthen, years become smaller and smaller portions of the whole. This causes them to seem shorter to us. I genuinely think this phenomenon is moving in lock step with the swelling time frames we're seeing in gaming. The bulk of gamers are getting more and more patient, lol~

---

I have spoken in Xbox often recently, i agree with your feeling that they're contradictory. I feel they had a clear ambition to fight Sony for the generation when they designed the XSX, but have long since abandoned that objective. They seem to be focusing on trying to get a model that lots of people can play - like the Switch - and is addictive like Fortnite etc.
 
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I have spoken in Xbox often recently, i agree with your feeling that they're contradictory. I feel they had a clear ambition to fight Sony for the generation when they designed the XSX, but have long since abandoned that objective. They seem to be focusing on trying to get a model that lots of people can play - like the Switch - and is addictive like Fortnite etc.
That model exists; it is called the phone gaming market.
NeoGaf might scoff at lootboxes and PayToWin of phone games, but facts on the ground say that the number one profitable game in the world is on smartphones.

Do you know which Sony game generate the most revenue in Japan last year? Certainly not any AAA PS4 game, and in fact, it isn't a console game at all; it is Fate/Grand Order, a phone game staring historical figures re-imagined into hot women. The game was so profitable that multiple anime series were produced purely as adverts for the game.

Since Sony is already doing it, there is no reason why Microsoft can't. Just remember that it is not an untapped market; it is hard for a new comer to make a splash.
 
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Tschumi

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That model exists; it is called the phone gaming market.
NeoGaf might scoff at lootboxes and PayToWin of phone games, but facts on the ground say that the number one profitable game in the world is on smartphones.

Do you know which Sony game generate the most revenue in Japan last year? Certainly not any AAA PS4 game, and in fact, it isn't a console game at all; it is Fate/Grand Order, a phone game staring historical figures re-imagined into hot women. The game was so profitable that multiple anime series were produced purely as adverts for the game.

Since Sony is already doing it, there is no reason why Microsoft can't. Just remember that it is not an untapped market; it is hard for a new comer to make a splash.
I don't wanna flame, but it sounds like you're saying that from a profit perspective Microsoft is fine chasing after pay to win mobile phone games as the core objective of their model? Is that what new console generations should be about? Addicting all of your fans and squeezing microtransactions out of them?
 
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I don't wanna flame, but it sounds like you're saying that from a profit perspective Microsoft is fine chasing after pay to win mobile phone games as the core objective of their model? Is that what new console generations should be about? Addicting all of your fans and squeezing microtransactions out of them?
I am just saying Gamepass is no where near a sure thing. And that if they wanted mass market GaaS, the phone game is where the money is.

I personally don't play phone games, because loot boxes and PtW make me want to vomit. But that does not change the fact that Phone games make mountains of money. I am pointing out the facts of the matter, despite my personal rejection of the entire thing from my gaming life.
 
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MrFunSocks

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PS5 is going to announce launch games, and we know they would because we have past records to look at. If you don't want to use past history as information then what else could you use?
Which studios of theirs are going to announce launch games exactly?

Guerrilla? Nope, already announced, not launch.
Santa Monica? Nope, supposedly announcing in august and not for launch.
Polyphony? Nope, it'll be a few years
Insomniac? Already have, a 0.5 of a game.
Media Molecule? Nope, game just came out.
SIE Japan? Not given their track record.
Bend? Nope, game just came out.
Naughty Dog? Nope, game just came out.
Sucker Punch? Nope, game just came out.
The rest of their studios are mobile and VR pretty much.

So where exactly are these Sony first party launch games coming from?
 

Danttte

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Their first party games aren't ready, including Halo. It is worrying for Halo but at the very least we know it will be ticking all the next gen technical boxes: 4k, 60/120 fps, ray tracing (post launch). If the story and gameplay hold up, I will be fine with Halo Infinite. It should look better over time although I wish the initial showing did not have awful pop in.
Knowing that their 1st party games are far away, it seems that MS has gotten a pile of console launch exclusives and is not asking Game Pass members to pay for any of them. The Ascent, Crossfire, the Medium, Scorn, Bright Memory, Call of the sea, etc.. all those games are coming out within the launch window, day one on GP and it will easily cost half a thousand bucks to play them all on another platform when they are no longer exclusive (assuming that they are only timed exclusives).
The 3rd party games will play best on XSX. By how much remains to be seen but it would raise universal eyebrows if that wasn't the case for any major 3rd party title.

The future looks good for xbox owners but MS needs to learn to manage their fans expectations before showcases. Finally next time there is a reveal, focus more on Hellblade 2 or another game that shows the XSX in action.
 

bad guy

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Are generations not important? Generations are becoming less and less important. Many new excellent games would run flawlessly on a 360. It seems MS with their 2 console versions has realized this more than Sony.

What MS is offering you ask? Uhh probably the best looking console version of every 3rd party game coming out in the next years, on whisper quiet hardware with a top class controller.

What the are you expecting OP? Multiple AAA games at launch that each take 5 years to develop?
 
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-Arcadia-

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Lol at the band of Xbox warriors rolling through, laugh emoting at everything they don't like.

Won't make the truth, and Craig, go away.

I want the best for this system. For it to be successful, influence future Xboxes, and to take gaming to new heights, with three strong companies in play.

That means challenging Microsoft to do better than two of the all-time worst next-gen presentations the hobby has ever had. That means challenging Microsoft to be more than the laughingstock meme of the entire internet, while their competitor makes serious mainstream inroads.

Real fandom isn't sitting behind your keyboard with tears welling in your eyes, finding the closest thing to a Reddit downvote button, every time someone hurts your feelings. It's leveraging a close relationship with the company you're a fan of, to give them valuable feedback, and steer them right.
 

MrFunSocks

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Lol at the band of Xbox warriors rolling through, laugh emoting at everything they don't like.
You might wanna check the emotes, there's a bunch of sony boys going through just smashing the lol and triggered. I had one guy got through my profile and do triggered on 20 posts in a few minutes.
 
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thismeinteil

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Simple solution for you. And something I think many are going to do this gen. Buy a PS5. Sony always delivers on the games.
Stop waiting for MS like the fanboys tell you to. Then, when you can afford it, get a decent gaming PC and buy any MS games you want.
 

SEGAvangelist

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Which studios of theirs are going to announce launch games exactly?

Guerrilla? Nope, already announced, not launch.
Santa Monica? Nope, supposedly announcing in august and not for launch.
Polyphony? Nope, it'll be a few years
Insomniac? Already have, a 0.5 of a game.
Media Molecule? Nope, game just came out.
SIE Japan? Not given their track record.
Bend? Nope, game just came out.
Naughty Dog? Nope, game just came out.
Sucker Punch? Nope, game just came out.
The rest of their studios are mobile and VR pretty much.

So where exactly are these Sony first party launch games coming from?
Moneyhats.
 
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pasterpl

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Simple solution for you. And something I think many are going to do this gen. Buy a PS5. Sony always delivers on the games.
Stop waiting for MS like the fanboys tell you to. Then, when you can afford it, get a decent gaming PC and buy any MS games you want.

unless you are not into 3rd person story games, sony lineup is quite limited in terms of variety
 

thismeinteil

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unless you are not into 3rd person story games, sony lineup is quite limited in terms of variety

And this is how you know you're talking to a fanboy. They characterize every PS game as a 3rd person story game, completely disregarding how different they play from one another, to try and downplay the lineup. All that downplaying didn't stop the PS4 from outselling the XBO by more more than 2:1, or those games outselling every Xbox exclusive, and it won't stop the PS5 from doing the same.

I guess it's good Xbox has that ONE FPS, otherwise we could say the same about Xbox's lineup. :messenger_tears_of_joy:
 
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MiguelItUp

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As someone that loved their 360 and didn't get for their Xbox One, I'm right there with you OP. I'd like to think MS will do better this generation, but only time will tell. Though I do feel like there are already a number of things that are putting it in a better situation than the Xbox One. But I'm really hoping it gets better and better.

At this point I really think Game Pass is going to be their savior, but we'll see! I'm just in a weird situation where I appreciate that everything is coming to PC, because then I can play it on my PC. But with that happening, it means I would never want or need an Xbox Series X. I'm still very unsure of which console I'm leaning towards, but I'm sure I'll figure it out in due time.
 

Bolivar687

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I know a lot of us like to cherry pick anything we can get our hands on to criticize Microsoft and their presentations, but at this point you have to acknowledge that they have seriously fucked up when so many long time fans like this have had it with them.
 
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Hudo

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I can't praise Microsoft enough for giving Age of Empires IV a fair shot (proper budget, proper dev time and proper studio). So Microsoft are alright in my book.
 
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Quick thanks to everybody's thoughts on the matter.

Thanks very much for your hard work writing the post, and I'm sorry to quote you just to focus on this one sentence, but could you tell me exactly what the Xbox brand is? I'm really not trying to troll! For me, xBox og was about superior graphics and a better controller. Then 360 seemed to be the frat gamer console.. what is it now? To you? What did it stand for, which is now under threat?

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I think we're growing up with these consoles. Think about it, it's been about 20 years since really legit 3D games were first brought out, so as we have (most of us) grown into adulthood, these consoles have been produced linearly, more or less from a pretty clear starting point (the ps2/xbox/gcn generation). So the length of time they these modern style consoles have been a thing has stretched, giving us new perspectives.

This seems to be evidenced in how much earlier game hype is being seeded. I remember that people were hugely annoyed by how long it took for half Life 1 to turn into half Life 2! And now we have cyberpunk being in production for a cool 6ish years, and Skyrim still a mainstream title, a decade later? As our lives lengthen, years become smaller and smaller portions of the whole. This causes them to seem shorter to us. I genuinely think this phenomenon is moving in lock step with the swelling time frames we're seeing in gaming. The bulk of gamers are getting more and more patient, lol~

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I have spoken in Xbox often recently, i agree with your feeling that they're contradictory. I feel they had a clear ambition to fight Sony for the generation when they designed the XSX, but have long since abandoned that objective. They seem to be focusing on trying to get a model that lots of people can play - like the Switch - and is addictive like Fortnite etc.
Sorry for a late response, and thanks for a thoughtful response.

I've stated it before but it's more about experiences then the brand. I have a ton of amazing experiences with Xbox, and despite a late start for me Halo is one of my favorite franchises. I couldn't even try to figure out how many hours I have between Halo/Project Gotham/Forza. Now I'm predominantly a PlayStation gamer as it was my first console, and it just sort of continued from there but I got a OG Xbox and loved it. I've been thinking about it a bit and maybe some of it is nostalgia. I don't think Xbox is what it was or what I want it to be anymore and that's okay. Makes me sort of sad, but it's okay. While I started on PCs I'm more of a console person and I want to see them do well. Again maybe it's out of love for what it used to be, but having a gaming PC I profit either way you know? I miss the 6th and 7th generations as there were concrete reasons to get everything.
 
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AGRacing

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Microsoft did not have a good history, Sony does. That matters. Your desire for both companies to be treated equally as if neither had ever released consoles before, is simply impossible.

Microsoft is being punished for past actions. It's called consequences.

PS5 is going to announce launch games, and we know they would because we have past records to look at. If you don't want to use past history as information then what else could you use?

Uh..... I'll use their "launch day 1st party games" announcement? Hope you're right. But speaking of history.... when has Sony been 3 months from launch and not announced their flagship launch title? I've been around since '95.... the answer is never.
 

pasterpl

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And this is how you know you're talking to a fanboy. They characterize every PS game as a 3rd person story game, completely disregarding how different they play from one another, to try and downplay the lineup. All that downplaying didn't stop the PS4 from outselling the XBO by more more than 2:1, or those games outselling every Xbox exclusive, and it won't stop the PS5 from doing the same.

I guess it's good Xbox has that ONE FPS, otherwise we could say the same about Xbox's lineup. :messenger_tears_of_joy:

yes, I am a fanboy with PS4 pro under my tv and most of the Sony exclusives next to it (but I admit, I do play more on my xbonex as I prefer Xbox games and Xbox controllers)

For me, a different character, story and a bit different mechanic doesn’t make a game fundamentally different
 
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Rhazer Fusion

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Which studios of theirs are going to announce launch games exactly?

Guerrilla? Nope, already announced, not launch.
Santa Monica? Nope, supposedly announcing in august and not for launch.
Polyphony? Nope, it'll be a few years
Insomniac? Already have, a 0.5 of a game.
Media Molecule? Nope, game just came out.
SIE Japan? Not given their track record.
Bend? Nope, game just came out.
Naughty Dog? Nope, game just came out.
Sucker Punch? Nope, game just came out.
The rest of their studios are mobile and VR pretty much.

So where exactly are these Sony first party launch games coming from?

I think the difference is, even though these games aren’t out at launch, most people know that these games from Sony’s first party developers will most likely deliver and be worth the wait based on their reputation.
 
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EverydayBeast

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That’s a lot OP but M$ has to be done playing nice if they want a chance of defeating SONY who brings the marketing, operating systems, AAA games every generation, meanwhile Nintendo captures gamers hearts, it looks like M$ is more concerned with Windows than gaming.