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[OldJadedGamer]

I think the indie scene on consoles will explode next gen. Just like how XBLA was a tiny drop in the bucket last gen but this gen people can't live without it.

 

[Kafel]

Kafel, as usual, is unrelentingly negative.

First of all, just to clear things up, I was contacted by Ars Technica out of the blue for my comment on the story. I was not whining or complaining, and you can see in the article I recognize XBLIG for what it is.

Second, even though Sequence is currently the 27th highest rated game in America, 16th in the UK, 10th in Canada, and around those slots in other countries, I literally get about 18 trials a day, less than two months after release. That is to say, among an install base of 47 million, 18 people try my game per day. (Around 8 of those buy it.)

XBLIG suffers from a lack of exposure. I don't begrudge the platform, but that statement is ineffably true.

I'm sure your game would sell better at 80 MSP and that your ratio would go up even higher with a tutorial under the 3 minutes mark.

If not, people are just not willing to play your game. People out of the XBLIG threads on GAF I mean.

 

[ScionOfTheRisingSun]

Sometimes I wish someone would put out a console that goes backwards in terms of console cycles. Just a indie machine with only 2D capabilities, an SNES Mark 2 if you will. Something which could be sold for like 30 ducats and would be free to develop for anyone. It could be the perfect home for wayward retro developers.

The low specs would ensure to attract only developers of the right mettle and put an end to the graphical fidelity one-up-manship which has led to the sad state of affairs on home consoles today so games on this indie device would live and die on gameplay and art style alone and it could bring about the resurgence of the golden era of 2D, although that is already sort of happening in a clumsy scattered sort of manner.

And of course, the low pricepoint means it is a impulse buy. SNES Mk.2, sounds crazy, but also sounds so damn good.

 

[bluemax]

Hope that MS will change their attitude? Much like stories about GFW or Microsoft's treatment of PC Gaming etc.

The whole XBLIG thing was an experimental thing by MS. Could it be a bit better? Sure, but what incentive does MS have to make it better?

I feel for the people who are trying to make it on their own. I really do. But this service has been out for what, 3, 4 years? People need to accept that its probably not going to change much at this point. There are so many avenues for distribution in this day and age, tying all your hopes and dreams into one service and one platform is just short sighted.

 

[Emitan]

Sometimes I wish someone would put out a console that goes backwards in terms of console cycles. Just a indie machine with only 2D capabilities, an SNES Mark 2 if you will. Something which could be sold for like 30 ducats and would be free to develop for anyone. It could be the perfect home for wayward retro developers.

The low specs would ensure to attract only developers of the right mettle and put an end to the graphical fidelity one-up-manship which has led to the sad state of affairs on home consoles today so games on this indie device would live and die on gameplay and art style alone and it could bring about the resurgence of the golden era of 2D, although that is already sort of happening in a clumsy scattered sort of manner.

And of course, the low pricepoint means it is a impulse buy. SNES Mk.2, sounds crazy, but also sounds so damn good.

That nD handheld by crazy Bob sounds basically like that. It's basically a portable SNES (considering the cheapness of tech it's probably multiple times more powerful) with an open app store for indies and is supposed to cost $20. If people actually support the thing I'll love it. But the button layout and obscurity will probably doom it.

http://the-nd.com/

 

[Mrbob]

Second, even though Sequence is currently the 27th highest rated game in America, 16th in the UK, 10th in Canada, and around those slots in other countries, I literally get about 18 trials a day, less than two months after release. That is to say, among an install base of 47 million, 18 people try my game per day. (Around 8 of those buy it.)

XBLIG suffers from a lack of exposure. I don't begrudge the platform, but that statement is ineffably true.

This is a little depressing when you word it like this. Of course I'm one of the 47 million and don't really help the cause because I just don't look at the indie game section that often on Xbox 360.

To be honest it is more of a case of my not wanting to tie purchases to my Xbox Live account anymore. This late in the generation I'd like some reassurance from MS I can play my download games on their next system (if I buy it). I feel like Indie games should always have a place on the PC, and it amazes me that so many indie developers skip the platform. I don't have the numbers to support this, but my gut feeling is that PC platform embraces indie gaming more than users on 360 do. Plus I always know whenever I upgrade my PC the indie game I bought will be playable should I want to revisit it.

I heard great things about Call of Cthulhu and Breath of Death 7, and will be picking up the combo pack on Steam when it is available in the next week.

 

[Feep]

I'm sure your game would sell better at 80 MSP and that your ratio would go up even higher with a tutorial under the 3 minutes mark.

If not, people are just not willing to play your game. People out of the XBLIG threads on GAF I mean.

Every game would sell better at 80 MSP. Would it sell more than three times the number of copies?

A complex, twelve-hour game is worth more than a dollar, Kafel. This is the kind of devaluation that Iwata is talking about. I went as low as I could feasibly go. And there's also no way I could boil the tutorial down to under three minutes with the fairly difficult gameplay at work. You want me to have made a different game. I just didn't want to.

I understand that XBLIG is *not the right place* for these kinds of games, but XBLIG is the only open console platform in existence, so that's where we go. I'm releasing PC eventually, but XBLIG is a sure thing. Steam, for instance, is not. = P

 

[Gaspode_T]

There is also supply and demand at play...since we are nearly at the end of a console generation, tie ratio is high and people have already purchased a ton of content to play with..when they turn on their 360, they will have a lot of distractions like Video Marketplace (or Netflix/Hulu+ basically) and online multiplayer games like CoD: BO

So what Mrbob is saying is kind of interesting, that someone might not see enough value in picking up an indie game when they have other things to get to. The demand is not outweighing because supply is ample...

This goes back to the fact that I think XBLIG devs really need to focus on finding things where demand is high but supply is low. It's really the only sure fire way to get sales. Transport yourself back in time to when you were 13 years old and had maybe $20 a month to spend on gaming/DLC/etc, what would the game need to be like for you to take 10% of that money and dump it on an indie game?

For folks like myself that have been around the block and gaming since 80s, buying a game like Oozi or Akane the Kunoichi I've done nearly out of just wanting to support the simple fun games. I just bought this game "Beyond" last night where you drop crates from a bird, it's very simple but I probably wouldn't have bought it if I'm not in a giving mood (and these days I would probably rather play such a game from mobile device if possible). What I really want on XBLIG is sort of fanservice, the Cthulhu games are a great example, Blocks that Matter is also there...tugging at my gamer heart strings. The Orbitron game looks like Wipeout meets Defender, that makes me want to jump with joy.

 

[Gaspode_T]

By the way my personal opinion is that Sequence would sell well as a pick up and play WP7/mobile game... maybe it could just have virtual d-pads at the bottom of the screen and have a swipe to switch windows quickly

 

[Slavik81]

Steam also doesn't take every dumpster game thrown at them, which is the biggest problem the XBLIG platform has.

No way. XBLIGM should be for learning and inexperienced developers to try their hands at things and release onto an organized platform. Then things should be rated and organized to separate the wheat from the chaff.

It should not be XBLA 2. There are already outlets for professional devs. If they're not letting in good indie games, that's the problem that should be solved.

 

[Kafel]

Every game would sell better at 80 MSP. Would it sell more than three times the number of copies?

A complex, twelve-hour game is worth more than a dollar, Kafel. This is the kind of devaluation that Iwata is talking about. I went as low as I could feasibly go. And there's also no way I could boil the tutorial down to under three minutes with the fairly difficult gameplay at work. You want me to have made a different game. I just didn't want to.

I understand that XBLIG is *not the right place* for these kinds of games, but XBLIG is the only open console platform in existence, so that's where we go. I'm releasing PC eventually, but XBLIG is a sure thing. Steam, for instance, is not. = P

When I said it would "sell better", of course it will. I meant you'd earn more with a 80 MSP price tag.

A complex, twelve-hour or seventy hour game is worth what the public is willing to pay for it. The XBLIG is a sandbox service where everyone can release a game so you compete with all the other games there. There isn't a bubble above the sandbox though, people see the Live deals, they have iPhones and Android phones as well etc.

You can call it "race to the bottom" if you want, and Iwata can release NES roms at $10 on Wii if he wants too but there's a market trend that noone should ignore. Games are free nowadays, time is still limited.

I think your game is being reworked now, maybe try to put only the DDR aspect in the tutorial and slowly add things in the first battles ("a 30 minutes tutorial" in which you learn about the mechanisms one after the other) . That's what the complex games do today.