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[jim2011]

Stop with this dishonest equivalency garbage.

And new features for those that typically game online and enjoy social integration does not mean the offline crowd will be left chewing on their controllers like village idiots. The paths were wide open last gen for online play to find a market share that reflected the user base, that is not going to change just because of some clever share features.

Equivalency garbage? You can't play online multiplayer on Xbox one without Xbox Live Gold. You can't play online multiplayer on PS4 for most games (minus F2P) without PS+. I'm not debating which is the better value but that is the fact. They are both subscriptions that you need to pay for if you want to game online.

As for online market share reflecting the user base, that's not due to share features. It's due to the games. Look at E3. The biggest games all had much more significant online focus than current gen (i.e. Titanfall, Destiny, Need For Speed, Forza, Watchdogs, The Division)

 

[bishoptl]

Sorry to quote myself



It's kind of my interpretation of what has been announced. I know in the grand scheme I'm not that important to this but if I'm seeing it that way, others will too.

Cool, thanks.

Hey some people still defending pre-180 Xbox slavery.

Really?

 

[DXLelouch153]

I can see where people are coming up with things to hold against xbox one but I think that anyone buying a $500 video game system and not paying to be able to play multiplayer games is a fool. Sorry, that's just how I feel. I'm gonna skip the F2P argument on PS4 as you'd still be restricted to just those games and unable to play games like call of duty, titan fall, etc.

not everyone plays or gives a damn about multiplayer games
i only care about them if their good

 

[DukeTogo1300]

Equivalency garbage? You can't play online multiplayer on Xbox one without Xbox Live Gold. You can't play online multiplayer on PS4 for most games (minus F2P) without PS+. I'm not debating which is the better value but that is the fact. They are both subscriptions that you need to pay for if you want to game online.

As for online market share reflecting the user base, that's not due to share features. It's due to the games. Look at E3. The biggest games all had much more significant online focus than current gen (i.e. Titanfall, Destiny, Need For Speed, Forza, Watchdogs, The Division)

I don't understand how you can only see online play, and the varying degrees of value associated with online play, when you look at this industry.

I have no doubt next-gen means more meaningful online implementation, but you are giving it an embarrassing oversell here as far as it being the sole source of value for these consoles.

 

[spwolf]

I can see where people are coming up with things to hold against xbox one but I think that anyone buying a $500 video game system and not paying to be able to play multiplayer games is a fool. Sorry, that's just how I feel. I'm gonna skip the F2P argument on PS4 as you'd still be restricted to just those games and unable to play games like call of duty, titan fall, etc.

In perfect life, but otherwise especially in Europe, a lot of people don't pay for live now or ps+

Why the heck have YouTube and Netflix behind the pay wall? Now every tv has these already, nobody will pay for gold because of them... It will be shortsighted as usual.

For instance my nephews have ps3 and there is no chance in hell my brother will pay 50€ for them to access online...

 

[DXLelouch153]

In perfect life, but otherwise especially in Europe, a lot of people don't pay for live now or ps+

Why the heck have YouTube and Netflix behind the pay wall? Now every tv has these already, nobody will pay for gold because of them... It will be shortsighted as usual.

For instance my nephews have ps3 and there is no chance in hell my brother will pay 50€ for them to access online...

why bother adding features behind a paywall that can be accessed already from a computer for free?
Microsoft doesnt think these things through does it?

 

[jim2011]

In perfect life, but otherwise especially in Europe, a lot of people don't pay for live now or ps+

Why the heck have YouTube and Netflix behind the pay wall? Now every tv has these already, nobody will pay for gold because of them... It will be shortsighted as usual.

For instance my nephews have ps3 and there is no chance in hell my brother will pay 50€ for them to access online...

I concur about the apps like Youtube and Netflix, they shouldn't be behind a paywall. However, these features in the OP, I can agree with being behind the paywall.

The TV guide is more than just a listing of live tv shows. It aggregates content from all other apps. If Tivo an charge a monthly fee, why shouldn't Microsoft. IMO, The data Microsoft is providing is a lot more than Tivo's listings.

DVR is probably being stored in Microsoft's cloud.

NFL is an exclusive Xbox partnership.

Smartmatch obviously implies you're paying for XBL Gold anyway to play multiplayer.
.

 

[Skeff]

Seriously who the F would buy this system without paying for xbox live gold. The same goes for PS4 without PS+. Both systems are crippled without subscriptions. Multiplayer is going to be a even bigger focus this gen than in previous generations. You'd be a fool to get either and not pay for their online services.

How can anyone even refute that?

Try reading this thread, you'll notice some anecdotal evidence about people who don't sub to XBLG or PS+ as well as some numbers:

Xbox 360 Total Console Sales 59,400,000
Number of Xbox Live Subscribers 31 Million

http://www.statisticbrain.com/xbox-statistics/

Remember, not everyone who purchases a console is exactly like you.

 

[ToyBroker]

Try reading this thread, you'll notice some anecdotal evidence about people who don't sub to XBLG or PS+ as well as some numbers:

Xbox 360 Total Console Sales 59,400,000
Number of Xbox Live Subscribers 31 Million

http://www.statisticbrain.com/xbox-statistics/

Remember, not everyone who purchases a console is exactly like you.

And even then it doesn't specify gold on that link.

Closest thing I found in 2 minutes of searching was from an article in 2010 where they had 25 million Xbox Live users and HALF of those were Gold subs.

 

[jim2011]

http://www.forbes.com/sites/insertc...e-subscriptions-up-to-46m-will-never-be-free/

46 million out of 77 million is what I found.

You guys are right about not all of those 46 million would be gold. However, those 31 million that don't have xbox live accounts wouldn't have their systems connected online at all then would they? Thus, any of these arguments for those people go out the window.

Edit:

As for PS+ this generation, it's not required to play online games. Thus, the subscription numbers are much lower.

 

[DukeTogo1300]

http://www.forbes.com/sites/insertc...e-subscriptions-up-to-46m-will-never-be-free/

46 million out of 77 million is what I found.

You guys are right about not all of those 46 million would be gold. However, those 31 million that don't have xbox live accounts wouldn't have their systems connected online at all then would they? Thus, any of these arguments for those people go out the window.

And what were those arguments again?

 

[VanWinkle]

Where do you think these replays/clips are being stored when you share them with friends? Most likely Microsoft's cloud services, an online feature. I don't see how that's hard to get.

Edit: Good chance Microsoft will allow you to upload to Youtube, etc. However, I believe they'll have the clips initially associated with your xbox live account and stored on their servers.

I know. I'm saying that is why I don't think the clips will be stored locally; otherwise they wouldn't be able to justify having a feature that is based (or possible) offline locked to an online service.

I concur about the apps like Youtube and Netflix, they shouldn't be behind a paywall. However, these features in the OP, I can agree with being behind the paywall.

The TV guide is more than just a listing of live tv shows. It aggregates content from all other apps. If Tivo an charge a monthly fee, why shouldn't Microsoft. IMO, The data Microsoft is providing is a lot more than Tivo's listings.

DVR is probably being stored in Microsoft's cloud.

NFL is an exclusive Xbox partnership.

Smartmatch obviously implies you're paying for XBL Gold anyway to play multiplayer.
.

Tivo charges a monthly fee, but Tivo is not the same thing as XB1. It's a DVR service.

And why SHOULDN'T the TV Guide be free? If it's more than a basic feature, isn't the the POINT of a new console?! Having new cool features? Why should we have to preclude that by saying, "Well, it's not so much a console feature as an XBLG feature"? You know this makes me wonder, do we even HAVE any new actual console level features for this thing that aren't tied to another service?

 

[jim2011]

And what were those arguments again?

See OP

 

[Eusis]

Equivalency garbage? You can't play online multiplayer on Xbox one without Xbox Live Gold. You can't play online multiplayer on PS4 for most games (minus F2P) without PS+. I'm not debating which is the better value but that is the fact. They are both subscriptions that you need to pay for if you want to game online.

As for online market share reflecting the user base, that's not due to share features. It's due to the games. Look at E3. The biggest games all had much more significant online focus than current gen (i.e. Titanfall, Destiny, Need For Speed, Forza, Watchdogs, The Division)

1. As beaten to death not all of us want to play online games.

2. Not all of us want to play those big games at E3 either, or we'll do so on PC rather than console (I'm sure there are quite a few of us that think Titanfall looks good AND don't want an XB1. So we get it on PC.)

3. This applies mainly to people trying to rationalize that we'd have PS+ anyway, but XBL offers almost nothing that isn't free or "free" elsewhere if you don't care to play online (well, right now is an exception, but that's the key word, exception), just some sales and minor promos if you're lucky. PS+ offers plenty of value however to those of us who DON'T want to play online, so it's nice there that there's reasons to stick with it even if I only play online every so often, whereas Microsoft is effectively penalizing us for daring to not want to play games on their damned system with anyone online, and doing this by crippling the system unnecessarily in other areas.

And really, this notion of "why do you care it won't effect you" is toxic period. Have some damn empathy, or at least understanding that maybe circumstances can change on you and even minor pleasures of yours are lost due to this unnecessary kind of bullshit. Hell it doesn't even require that, just being someone who likes to buy both systems but only wants to pay for the online of PS4 since all their friends are there is enough. I suppose that brings up the counter argument of just using that system to stream instead, but then you can't just use the XB1 on a TV in another room to serve Netflix duty there.

 

[Bsigg12]

nvm

 

[DukeTogo1300]

See OP

...can you please explain the context of your point in relation to that?

 

[jim2011]

I'll quit this thread but the fact that it's 28 pages long tells you something about the state of GAF right now.

 

[ToyBroker]

I'll quit this thread but the fact that it's 28 pages long tells you something about the state of GAF right now.

That we care about things?

 

[DukeTogo1300]

I'll quit this thread but the fact that it's 28 pages long tells you something about the state of GAF right now.

ohyou.gif

 

[Forceatowulf]

Seriously... I can't use offline features without an online sub? For real? God damn this console is unappealing. Especially when you look at the alternative.

I am going to be so shocked if this thing does well outside of any territory that isn't the US (we will buy fucking anything) or UK. MS would deserve a medal for that shit.

 

[stryke]

I'll quit this thread but the fact that it's 28 pages long tells you something about the state of GAF right now.

Quit the forum while you're at it instead of making sweeping remarks while not further engaging rationally with other members here.

 

[BRocknRolla]

I'll quit this thread but the fact that it's 28 pages long tells you something about the state of GAF right now.

He's right. People have spent 28 pages debating the merits of putting features behind a pay wall. It's almost like this stuff matters to people. There's been far too much standing up for the things you believe in around here lately. Seriously NeoGaf, we need to stop thinking so much. It might just lead to us realizing the people running our precious hobby aren't actually our friends and deserve none of our loyalty.

 

[Mistwalker]

Seriously who the F would buy this system without paying for xbox live gold. The same goes for PS4 without PS+. Both systems are crippled without subscriptions.

Not true. The Xbox is crippled without a subscription by design, to a greater extent than anyone might have thought given MS's 180 and in light of the fact that the PS4 is NOT crippled.

I can see where people are coming up with things to hold against xbox one but I think that anyone buying a $500 video game system and not paying to be able to play multiplayer games is a fool. Sorry, that's just how I feel.

Only fools will buy the new consoles for single-player gaming and/or media functionality? Gotcha. Ditto the folks who would simply like the option rather than having all-or-nothing rammed down their throats, then?

Equivalency garbage? You can't play online multiplayer on Xbox one without Xbox Live Gold. You can't play online multiplayer on PS4 for most games (minus F2P) without PS+. I'm not debating which is the better value but that is the fact. They are both subscriptions that you need to pay for if you want to game online.

Sharing one feature does not equate to equivalency. I don't know if you are ignoring the many ways in which they're different, or simply unaware of them (try reading this thread if that's the case!), but there is in fact a bigger picture.

And the length of this thread should tell you how fed up people have become with what you are pushing as absolute normalcy.

 

[Satchel]

Calling it slavery is pretty rough, I'd go indentured servitude.

For me personally?

It was called the future I wanted to be a part of.

 

[NZNova]

Jumping out. I've been waiting for a reason to buy an xbox one and boy do I just keep hearing more and more reasons not to.

None of this shit would be available to me anyway since I'm outside the US, regardless of whether or not I paid for gold. But I'm fairly willing to bet I'll still be charged more for XBL Gold than someone in the US anyway, because fuck us guys, right?

 

[sleeping_dragon]

I'll quit this thread but the fact that it's 28 pages long tells you something about the state of GAF right now.

popcorn.gif

 

[Barzul]

Jumping out. I've been waiting for a reason to buy an xbox one and boy do I just keep hearing more and more reasons not to.

None of this shit would be available to me anyway since I'm outside the US, regardless of whether or not I paid for gold. But I'm fairly willing to bet I'll still be charged more for XBL Gold than someone in the US anyway, because fuck us guys, right?

Thing is MS doesn't require you to buy an XB1 at launch, they just want you to get one eventually, you really think your opinion can't change in the possible 8+ years this generation will last?

 

[Hana-Bi]

Jumping out. I've been waiting for a reason to buy an xbox one and boy do I just keep hearing more and more reasons not to.

None of this shit would be available to me anyway since I'm outside the US, regardless of whether or not I paid for gold. But I'm fairly willing to bet I'll still be charged more for XBL Gold than someone in the US anyway, because fuck us guys, right?

So do you want to play online? If so you need Gold or PS+. If not - do you need those apps? A normal PC would be better for it anyway. So if you just want to play games - offline - you won't need Gold...

If you like the games on X1 I see no problem to just jump in (in the future).

 

[Barzul]

Seriously... I can't use offline features without an online sub? For real? God damn this console is unappealing. Especially when you look at the alternative.

I am going to be so shocked if this thing does well outside of any territory that isn't the US (we will buy fucking anything) or UK. MS would deserve a medal for that shit.

What offline features are you referring to?

 

[Satchel]

I find it strange that so many are complaining about apps being behind a pay wall on a console that everyone complains about not being dedicated enough to games.

Apparently the Xbox One sucks balls for being too media and app focused, but then there's complaints that the apps that make the console suck anyway are behind a paywall?

I figured not subscribing to Gold would technically make the One quite a dedicated gaming machine no?

 

[VanWinkle]

So do you want to play online? If so you need Gold or PS+. If not - do you need those apps? A normal PC would be better for it anyway. So if you just want to play games - offline - you won't need Gold...

If you like the games on X1 I see no problem to just jump in (in the future).

I'm not him, but online multiplayer is the only major thing that requires Plus. If I want to talk to friends in a party, use the social features, play single player games, play games with asynchronous multiplayer, record video clips, stream online, play free 2 play titles, take screenshots and show them to friends, etc. I don't need Plus. Almost all of the cool new features are available for everybody. Almost every cool new feature of the XB1 requires XBLG.

The point being that you don't need PS+ to enjoy the majority of what PS4 has to offer, both offline and online, but you do with the XB1.

I find it strange that so many are complaining about apps being behind a pay wall on a console that everyone complains about not being dedicated enough to games.

Apparently the Xbox One sucks balls for being too media and app focused, but then there's complaints that the apps that make the console suck anyway are behind a paywall?

I figured not subscribing to Gold would technically make the One quite a dedicated gaming machine no?

Are you from May 21st? People don't care that MS has media and apps; they didn't like that it was revealed more as a media/app/TV device than a gaming machine. After E3 nobody even talks about that anymore. People want media and apps; they just didn't want that to be the focal point of MS's game console reveal.

 

[BigDug13]

I concur about the apps like Youtube and Netflix, they shouldn't be behind a paywall. However, these features in the OP, I can agree with being behind the paywall.

The TV guide is more than just a listing of live tv shows. It aggregates content from all other apps. If Tivo an charge a monthly fee, why shouldn't Microsoft. IMO, The data Microsoft is providing is a lot more than Tivo's listings.

DVR is probably being stored in Microsoft's cloud.

NFL is an exclusive Xbox partnership.

Smartmatch obviously implies you're paying for XBL Gold anyway to play multiplayer.
.

Roku boxes aggregate content from all apps for no subscription fee. You search for something and it shows you which app has that particular piece of media.

 

[Hana-Bi]

I'm not him, but online multiplayer is the only major thing that requires Plus. If I want to talk to friends in a party, use the social features, play single player games, play games with asynchronous multiplayer, record video clips, stream online, play free 2 play titles, take screenshots and show them to friends, etc. I don't need Plus. Almost all of the cool new features are available for everybody. Almost every cool new feature of the XB1 requires XBLG.

The point being that you don't need PS+ to enjoy the majority of what PS4 has to offer, both offline and online, but you do with the XB1.

But do you need social media features if you aren't able to play with your friends? I can't see that many people who use such features and don't want to play with their friends.

Why just talk with your friend on a gaming console? Why not play with him or against him? I could use skype on my PC to talk with him etc.

 

[Garrett 2U]

Sorry to quote myself



It's kind of my interpretation of what has been announced. I know in the grand scheme I'm not that important to this but if I'm seeing it that way, others will too.

Huh, well then that would make sense why it is Xbox Live Gold only.

 

[davidbloop]

I find it strange that so many are complaining about apps being behind a pay wall on a console that everyone complains about not being dedicated enough to games.

Apparently the Xbox One sucks balls for being too media and app focused, but then there's complaints that the apps that make the console suck anyway are behind a paywall?

I figured not subscribing to Gold would technically make the One quite a dedicated gaming machine no?

Are you taking the piss?

 

[Eusis]

I find it strange that so many are complaining about apps being behind a pay wall on a console that everyone complains about not being dedicated enough to games.

Apparently the Xbox One sucks balls for being too media and app focused, but then there's complaints that the apps that make the console suck anyway are behind a paywall?

I figured not subscribing to Gold would technically make the One quite a dedicated gaming machine no?

Because more and more it makes Microsoft out to be completely fucking clueless. They want to hit more than just gamers, yet they're selling an extremely expensive console and require a yearly fee that most anyone NOT heavily invested in games will laugh off, especially as that year of XBL could've gotten them a nice small Roku that'd mainly be missing the Skype/TV Guide stuff, and even many of those heavily invested gamers will just begrudgingly accept the fee to play CoD or whatever. Yet nevertheless it has pushed multimedia far above games themselves initially at least, and isn't even going to be a stronger console than the cheaper PS4.

Basically if they're going to aim for heavy multimedia stuff then at least do it right, but they're not even accomplishing that! It's like a monument to what many of us perceive as being wrong with modern Microsoft (or problems that were always there and are just coming to a head, whichever.)

 

[werks]

I find it strange that so many are complaining about apps being behind a pay wall on a console that everyone complains about not being dedicated enough to games.

Apparently the Xbox One sucks balls for being too media and app focused, but then there's complaints that the apps that make the console suck anyway are behind a paywall?

I figured not subscribing to Gold would technically make the One quite a dedicated gaming machine no?

You find it strange because you are an idiot. The complaints about the reveal were legitimate because they spent the majority of a game console reveal taking about TV & sports. That doesn't mean we don't live in an age where almost every internet connected device has netflix, etc available for free.

I'm not happy about Sony forcing PSN+ for multiplayer with PS4, but atleast they are trying to give me an incentive with instant game collection, discounts, etc. MS isn't giving me a damn thing but also taking away basic functionality.

End of the day the PS4 costs less, and if I choose to not pay a yearly fee, is a lot more functional. And if I do choose to pay the fee, I get a much better value than live.

 

[Neuromancer]

I'd be getting Gold or + for whatever system I ended up buying anyway, but that doesn't mean MS hiding all this stuff behind the paywall makes sense or is good treatment of their customers. Xbox Live Gold is getting harder and harder to defend, which shouldn't be happening.

 

[VanWinkle]

But do you need social media features if you aren't able to play with your friends? I can't see that many people who use such features and don't want to play with their friends.

Why just talk with your friend on a gaming console? Why not play with him or against him? I could use skype on my PC to talk with him etc.

Sure. If I'm playing a sports or racing game - something without a story - I like to talk to a few friends in a party and just hang out. I'd like to share screenshots and videos with friends, comment on other peoples', watch streams, maybe show my friend how to beat a part in a game we both have, try to beat friends' scores and lap times, etc. There's honestly all sorts of fun social stuff to do that doesn't necessitate online multiplayer.

And you've mentioned how "apps" are better on PC (I'd disagree with Netflix. Watching it on my PS3 is far preferable to watching on my PC), and how I could just talk to somebody on Skype, but I like an integrated experience. I can play a game, and then watch netflix, and then join a party and play some NFS:Rivals while talking to friends and trying to beat their times, and I can do that all from one machine. I think there's a logical reason to enjoy having that all integrated into one device, and if the majority of what I want to do doesn't cost any extra fee from the console manufacturer, then that's even better, right?

 

[Satchel]

I'd be getting Gold or + for whatever system I ended up buying anyway, but that doesn't mean MS hiding all this stuff behind the paywall makes sense or is good treatment of their customers. Xbox Live Gold is getting harder and harder to defend, which shouldn't be happening.

Its technically always been hard to defend really.

 

[beast786]

Is the xb1 nfl deal exclusive about games (sunday ticket) like one on ps3 or just fantasy stuff?

 

[Eusis]

Its technically always been hard to defend really.

It's admittedly easier when there's a case to be made for server work on their end, even if it's mainly matchmaking stuff. And I think if they were running it closer to when the 360 launched we'd have truly F2P games and no fees on streaming, as Xbox Live Silver WAS an attempt to open XBL up more to both subscriptions and just using the service without playing games online, before they kinda snapped into a similar mentality as with the debut of XBL but with a different kind of shortsighted, and far more greedy about it.

 

[Hana-Bi]

Sure. If I'm playing a sports or racing game - something without a story - I like to talk to a few friends in a party and just hang out. I'd like to share screenshots and videos with friends, comment on other peoples', watch streams, maybe show my friend how to beat a part in a game we both have, try to beat friends' scores and lap times, etc. There's honestly all sorts of fun social stuff to do that doesn't necessitate online multiplayer.

And you've mentioned how "apps" are better on PC (I'd disagree with Netflix. Watching it on my PS3 is far preferable to watching on my PC), and how I could just talk to somebody on Skype, but I like an integrated experience. I can play a game, and then watch netflix, and then join a party and play some NFS:Rivals while talking to friends and trying to beat their times, and I can do that all from one machine. I think there's a logical reason to enjoy having that all integrated into one device, and if the majority of what I want to do doesn't cost any extra fee from the console manufacturer, then that's even better, right?

Sure, free is always better. But why just beat the time of your friend and not race against him?

I still believe that there aren't this many gamer out there who want to talk with their friends over a console and not play with them.

 

[Satchel]

It's admittedly easier when there's a case to be made for server work on their end, even if it's mainly matchmaking stuff. And I think if they were running it closer to when the 360 launched we'd have truly F2P games and no fees on streaming, as Xbox Live Silver WAS an attempt to open XBL up more to both subscriptions and just using the service without playing games online, before they kinda snapped into a similar mentality as with the debut of XBL but with a different kind of shortsighted, and far more greedy about it.

We shouldn't be paying to play the entire game we just paid for.

This comes from someone who has had a sub for 9 years.

 

[rjinaz]

Equivalency garbage? You can't play online multiplayer on Xbox one without Xbox Live Gold. You can't play online multiplayer on PS4 for most games (minus F2P) without PS+. I'm not debating which is the better value but that is the fact. They are both subscriptions that you need to pay for if you want to game online.

As for online market share reflecting the user base, that's not due to share features. It's due to the games. Look at E3. The biggest games all had much more significant online focus than current gen (i.e. Titanfall, Destiny, Need For Speed, Forza, Watchdogs, The Division)

The point is, a lot of people (maybe not the majority but certainly a lot) only play single player games or use media apps such as Netflix which the PS4 will not have behind a paywall (apparently). They will not be subscribing to PS+ because they simply do not have the need. Calling people foolish because they don't like the same games that you like, multiplayer games, is where people are disagreeing with you.

 

[SegaShack]

I have one of these preordered for the games (yes I mostly care about these on my videogame machines). I don't care about online multiplayer, I have had a PS3 for 5 years and have maybe only played online a dozen times. That being said, one of the really exciting features for me is the ability to stream games with Twitch TV and being able to capture and record footage from the console, no messy wiring required. I was really looking forward to both these features.

Now while no one knows yet if Twitch is a Live feature only, Game DVR is restricted which makes me really sad. Five dollars a month isn't terrible but since this is such an expensive device and the feature is built into the system, making someone pay for it does trouble me. On Playstation 3 I don't use Netflix all the time but I do use it a few times a month and enjoy having access to it. I got a 360 this June and was shocked after downloading Netflix to find out it was restricted. Looks like for recording and streaming I might as well just get an HD capable pass through capture card for the XB1. Not sure if I will cancel my preorder or not yet, will have to wait for more information.

The cable feature seemed like such a big focus that restricting it to subscribers only doesn't make sense. Hopefully the basic aspects of the TV guide still work for everyone. Again, I didn't preorder this system for the media applications but they were great bonuses and I was getting excited for them. However I don't want to pay additional money for these things.

At this rate the system seems like it would be better as a lending agreement where you don't pay money for the system but pay monthly for services and ownership (like a cable box).

 

[VanWinkle]

Sure, free is always better. But why just beat the time of your friend and not race against him?

I still believe that there aren't this many gamer out there who want to talk with their friends over a console and not play with them.

If I like playing games and social stuff, but not necessarily the pressure of playing in real-time against people, or if I maybe jjust don't play online multiplayer enough to justify paying an annual fee but still want to utilize what the system can do, the PS4 is the way to go. The simple fact is, I can do almost EVERYTHING the PS4 is capable of besides real-time online multiplayer for paid titles without paying an extra sent to Sony. If I want to do probably even a quarter of what the XB1 is capable of doing, I'll have to make sure I pony up that fee.

Not everybody who doesn't play online multiplayer is some unsocial neanderthal or something. Some people just don't want to play real-time online multiplayer. Heck, I hardly ever play online multiplayer myself. I still go into parties with my friends and like the asynchronous social aspects in games like NFS:MW and Motorstorm RC, and doing leaderboards stuff.

 

[Eusis]

We shouldn't be paying to play the entire game we just paid for.

This comes from someone who has had a sub for 9 years.

Well, at the time it didn't look too dissimilar to MMO subscriptions, and that applied to way more than one game and for cheaper! Though they really should've kept offering short trials with games and things with subscriptions should've stayed an exception, but it seems they changed their mind on that or at least won't throw in F2P games where it goes completely against the business model.

Given we're not talking dedicated servers (well until now funnily enough) I'm not exactly THAT defensive admittedly. Just there's a better case for games at least then than there is for almost all of their streaming services where they're at best a middle man that needs to ensure the software won't destroy the system.

 

[njean777]

Sadly people will still defend this shit. I was already out when they showed that horrible launch event, but the Ps4 just keeps becoming the better console (consumer wise). I admit MS has some alright looking games, but no system sellers. At least for me, no system sellers.

 

[AyaisMUsikWhore]

I find it strange that so many are complaining about apps being behind a pay wall on a console that everyone complains about not being dedicated enough to games.

Apparently the Xbox One sucks balls for being too media and app focused, but then there's complaints that the apps that make the console suck anyway are behind a paywall?

I figured not subscribing to Gold would technically make the One quite a dedicated gaming machine no?

What a deflection. Wow. Dude, it's simple. XBL is a rip off in regards to its media options. You just stated exactly why people are upset. Your paying for online service for multi-player on your console but to also have free apps that are sitting on your phone for free behind the same wall multi-player on. It shouldn't and that's the concensus. If I want to watch something as simple as Netflix, I shouldn't have to pay $60 to use it. If everybody else in the industry can give apps for free, why can't they? Ms can be all TV TV sports sports but ripping people off while your doing it is ridiculous.