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Xbox One - Help Spread the Word

scsa

Member
Apr 5, 2010
473
0
0
You call these things minor conveniences and I won't argue that, to you, they seem minor. What I will say is that consumers are getting nothing in return for these concessions.

It is the most restrictive media player since DIVX. Which failed spectacularly precisely because it places restrictions on consumers at the behest of publishers with no consumer benefit in return.

I had a thread about DIVX a few months ago. The similarities are striking.

This. You typed out exactly what I feel regarding the situation.

I honestly think, that initial sales will good, and the online community will be surprised. But as soon as the average consumers encounters these restrictions, we can expect a lot of trade-ins and returns.

People are insinuating or MS will think that people want them to fail or this place is filled with Sony Fan boys.I sincerely wish that this whole attitude , this whole pressurizing the consumer, and taking away fundamental rights attitude fails, in turn leading to the failure of this product.

If Sony goes on the same route, hope they fail as well.
 

DrFurbs

Member
Jul 11, 2011
1,946
0
560
N.Ireland
Nice graphic. I would love to be a fly on the wall in MS offices now. Seriously they must be watching GAF and other sites and cringing.
 

Lasdrub

Member
May 20, 2013
832
0
0
Nice graphic. I would love to be a fly on the wall in MS offices now. Seriously they must be watching GAF and other sites and cringing.

It's probably very frustrating to them. I'm sure they thought they made something cool and that things would play out differently.

Or maybe they're going for a different group of consumers this time and don't care about what we think as much. They certainly can't say that they didn't know what we thought about their DRM ideas.
 

DesertFox

Member
Jul 11, 2012
1,523
0
0
I can install a game to a 360 HD, start it with the disc inside and play it on another 360 at the same time.

I thought that returns you to the dashboard when you eject the disk?

Never actually tried this after installing a game to HDD...
 

Woorloog

Banned
Apr 18, 2010
19,089
0
0
I thought that returns you to the dashboard when you eject the disk?

Never actually tried this after installing a game to HDD...

Pretty sure this ain't possible, as you say ejecting the disk returns to dashboard.
Unless the system is modded (flashed?).
 

Majanew

Banned
Nov 12, 2010
6,575
0
0
I can install a game to a 360 HD, start it with the disc inside and play it on another 360 at the same time.

Nope. I guess you have a modded 360, then. Because that isn't possible. All installing does is make the disc stop spinning after a period of time. You can't take the disc out and continue playing.
 

ultimatepunchrod

Neo Member
Apr 8, 2013
17
0
0
It won't because this is a closed marketplace with no competition. Don't delude yourself into thinking it's anything different.


We boycott BOTH the Xbox One and PlayStation 4 and build gaming PCs.

I honestly hate this argument. PC gaming digital distribution services allow for less than what the XBONE is proposing. The only difference is the Kinect 2.0 always on nonsense and you trade a sign in every 24 hours for one every month. However, on PC, you can't trade games to ANYONE, and you can never sell games on your account if you go with PC gaming (in fact, even trying to sell your account is against the terms of service on steam). I don't understand the argument to switch to PC for DRM issues. There are a ton of advantages to PC gaming. Ridding yourself of DRM woes is not among them.
 

nib95

Banned
Feb 26, 2007
34,612
2
0

Badum tish!
 

eso76

Member
Jun 25, 2004
14,913
67
1,615
44
Translating it tomorrow and spamming it on Fb and twitter.
If Xone succeeds we're screwed, it has to be a spectacular fail.
 

wumster3000

Member
Mar 28, 2010
2,169
0
750
California
I honestly hate this argument. PC gaming digital distribution services allow for less than what the XBONE is proposing. The only difference is the Kinect 2.0 always on nonsense and you trade a sign in every 24 hours for one every month. However, on PC, you can't trade games to ANYONE, and you can never sell games on your account if you go with PC gaming (in fact, even trying to sell your account is against the terms of service on steam). I don't understand the argument to switch to PC for DRM issues. There are a ton of advantages to PC gaming. Ridding yourself of DRM woes is not among them.

For some reason, people seem to think that it's better. This whole time people have been yelling about going to PC gaming, falling to realize that this is just as bad. I am a big PC gamer and I understand that the majority of MS policies are more lenient than a PCs' model. I will admit that the 24 hour thing is a bit of a push in the other direction, but I can manage that.

IMO, Steam was and is the savor of PC gaming. Devs were reluctant to put their games on PC before Steam took off. They wanted that protection, and they got it. It's the same thing they want in consoles.

If people think that Xbox will be the only console going the DRM route, I feel that they will be disappointed. There is no way a publisher will have one console doing DRM and another not.
 

Dambrosi

Banned
Jun 7, 2004
6,734
1
0
Liverpool, UK
It is the most restrictive media player since DIVX. Which failed spectacularly precisely because it places restrictions on consumers at the behest of publishers with no consumer benefit in return.

I had a thread about DIVX a few months ago. The similarities are striking.
Actually, having watched that promotional video, I'd argue that Xbone DRM makes DIVX look consumer-friendly :lol
 

Kagami

Member
Oct 3, 2006
2,044
0
0
What rights exactly? I keep seeing this, but if you read the fine print on any piece of software you bought for your PS3, 360 or Wii/Wii U, you'll see that, in fact you are only ever really licensing a game to begin with and do not in fact "own" it and use is subject to termination at any time. Same goes for music and movies on physical media.
This is simply untrue and people need to stop spreading this myth.
A copyright holder does not have the right to arbitrarily declare that you're licensing instead of buying a copy of media. Copyright law doesn't work like that. It's only possible to accomplish that by requiring the user to agree to a EULA or other contract before the software will work, or prior to acquiring the media (e.g. as part of completing an order form).
Anything that doesn't have that agreement step is treated as a normal copy under regular copyright law.
Music CDs and DVDs/BDs don't have EULAs, so it never applies to those. It's not even possible to implement them on CDs--you'd have to require agreement prior to sale.
Some PS3 and 360 disc games apparently do have EULAs, but not all of them.
Do Wii games even have EULAs?
 

Caayn

Member
Mar 10, 2013
12,375
378
700
The Netherlands
This is simply untrue and people need to stop spreading this myth.
A copyright holder does not have the right to arbitrarily declare that you're licensing instead of buying a copy of media. Copyright law doesn't work like that. It's only possible to accomplish that by requiring the user to agree to a EULA or other contract before the software will work, or prior to acquiring the media (e.g. as part of completing an order form).
Anything that doesn't have that agreement step is treated as a normal copy under regular copyright law.
Music CDs and DVDs/BDs don't have EULAs, so it never applies to those. It's not even possible to implement them on CDs--you'd have to require agreement prior to sale.
Some PS3 and 360 disc games apparently do have EULAs, but not all of them.
Do Wii games even have EULAs?
Only one problem. In Europe EULAs do not overrule the law. And the European law state that the Original license seller has no right to prevent the reselling of the sold license.
 

Walshicus

Member
Aug 10, 2007
16,892
1
0
36
Eng, EU
Only one problem. In Europe EULAs do not overrule the law. And the European law state that the Original license seller has no right to prevent the reselling of the sold license.

Does that necessarily equate to being forced to facilitate the reselling of a license?

It's an important distinction.
 

Vinci

Danish
Oct 12, 2007
22,075
0
0
United States
I'm only going to speak about the X-Box One if someone asks me about it. That said, this will be the second Microsoft console in a row that I boycott. All I wanted from Microsoft following the 360's RROD fiasco was for its next console to not do something that screws me over as a consumer in some capacity. That seemed like a pretty low bar, that I was giving them the benefit of the doubt.

Oh well. Plenty more to do.
 

Feorax

Member
Jul 16, 2009
9,472
0
890
Liverpool, UK
Does that necessarily equate to being forced to facilitate the reselling of a license?

It's an important distinction.

Possibly, but even if that passes you are into the issue of restricting trade and all that shit by limiting the outlets a user can re-sell to.

It's been a while since I studied EU law, but there are some obvious, massive red flags here, and the EU are already pissed off with Microsoft over other issues anyway.
 

helipilot22

Neo Member
May 3, 2009
117
0
0
Definitely not buying the Xbox one.

edit! pc upgrade later this year nothing more to say, they are not ripping me off.
 

ttocs

Member
Dec 5, 2008
710
0
975
Right now, I'm pulling for PS4 to come out with a big showing at E3 and basically be everything the Xbone isn't. My heart is pulling for this outcome, but my mind is telling me that I'm going to be upset later this week when more PS4 news is announced. Come on heart, you have to right sometimes...
 

NathanMcMahon

Banned
Dec 5, 2008
8,465
0
0
For some reason, people seem to think that it's better. This whole time people have been yelling about going to PC gaming, falling to realize that this is just as bad. I am a big PC gamer and I understand that the majority of MS policies are more lenient than a PCs' model. I will admit that the 24 hour thing is a bit of a push in the other direction, but I can manage that.

IMO, Steam was and is the savor of PC gaming. Devs were reluctant to put their games on PC before Steam took off. They wanted that protection, and they got it. It's the same thing they want in consoles.

If people think that Xbox will be the only console going the DRM route, I feel that they will be disappointed. There is no way a publisher will have one console doing DRM and another not.

It boils down to uninformed reactionary bullshit. They aren't buying a PC. They are going to buy one of the next gen consoles and then eventually buy the second one as well. It's inevitable.
 
Apr 22, 2006
1,901
0
0
One of the best things about consoles (besides exclusive titles) is that they are basically free of hassle. They're loosing an important point if they're going to make things more complicated next gen.
 

nib95

Banned
Feb 26, 2007
34,612
2
0
One of the best things about consoles (besides exclusive titles) is that they are basically free of hassle. They're loosing an important point if they're going to make things more complicated next gen.

Agree. It's been about the convenience and lack of hurdles. CD keys, DRM etc. Seems like the XO is really working towards changing that.
 

Wolves Evolve

Member
Sep 11, 2006
3,655
0
0
A grown up discussion would be great. Stop lobbying for my ban and respond to my actual point. The only thing I find odd is the 24 hour check in, which actually doesn't affect me at all since my console is always plugged into the internet, and if I am affected by any sort of natural disaster the last thing on my mind will be playing videogames.

Digital rentals and purchases of movies/tv shows are outpacing physical copies, digital music is outpacing cds, ect... This is the future, im sorry you cant trade in your movies or music anymore but consumers have made their choice. I honestly don't see how or why it would be any different with videogames. It wouldn't surprise me at all if by the end of this generation the majority of videogame sales were digital.

So what?

I've always been able to sell objects I own.
I've never been able to sell digital files I own.

Why mess with consumer rights during the very twilight of the form?