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[bigwinnerx]

This thread, what PS4 does....doesn't matter. I'm out. I've seen enough.

Love following games, love E3, watching vids and reading articles. If I have to sell my soul to actually play the damn things, forget it.

 

[spookyfish]

This doesn't destroy "everything I love about gaming" which is the...games.

It does if when the generation ends, so ends your ability to play said games.

 

[mokeyjoe]

I have no idea why you can't support your fellow gamers and focus the majority of your energy on important real world issues at the same time. It doesn't take much afford to click an RT button or post that flier on other forums to spark a discussion. That leaves you and me with enough time to think about important issues outside of our hobby that deserve attention as well!

That said getting rid of used games, is touching a major issue. The increasing gap between the poor and rich. Not everyone had the chance to enjoy a good education or a family business, granting them a job that pays well enough, to simply accept that MS and co are taking away the possibility to enjoy new releases on day one by trading in their old games for a proper price or borrowing them from friends. You probably don't share my opinion, but if anyone has deserved to escape their world by playing games after a day of hard manual labor, it's those who pick up your trash, scrub your toilets and pick the food you have on your table every day!

While that's very worthy of you but lack of pre-owned game =/= lack of cheap games.

I haven't bought a new game in 18 months and I've only bought about 5 or 6 new games this gen. I only ever rent and buy pre-owned. I've been in and out of work over the last few years and often can't afford to spend £40 a game. If MS's policies exclude cheap-ass gamers (like me) then they simply won't get any money. It's in their interests not to do this or lose out on income. If used games aren't available then the way to do this would be aggressive discounting on games that are older. You can already get some older retail games on the cheap via XBL and PSN, it's not Steam but that's the way I hope it goes.

 

[wumster3000]

This thread, what PS4 does....doesn't matter. I'm out. I've seen enough.

Love following games, love E3, watching vids and reading articles. If I have to sell my soul to actually play the damn things, forget it.

Right now would be the perfect opportunity for Sony to state that they have no type of DRM to put far more pressure on M$ . They have been quiet.

 

[Eric the Red]

Buy it if this doesn't bother you and don't purchaseif it does bother you. It's not that hard. I think trying to convince people to not buy it is a good use of your short time on this earth but if it makes you happy go for it.

If your drunk friend was about to sleep with Amanda Bynes, wouldn't you want to warn him?

Actually it's more like stopping a friend from marrying someone that doesn't love them. Who's just gonna act like they own everything you have even though you bought it.

 

[F0rneus]

Reading that list is just confusing. How can any company even in the name of profit, could think that this console could work? Seriously. I don't think that even the general masses of consumers are going to go for this thing.

 

[True Underdog]

It's embarrassing that there are still consumers in this day and age that are happy to eat any shit shovelled into their months instead of using the powerful tools at their disposal.

Ridiculing people who are indifferent to the situation is probably not the best way to get them to get on board with spreading the word.

Reading that list is just confusing. How can any company even in the name of profit, could think that this console could work? Seriously. I don't think that even the general masses of consumers are going to go for this thing.

The fact that it's confusing as hell is probably more of a turn off for me than the actual requirements. This is the first time where I'm actually leaning PS4. I've maintained a 50/50 split and was hoping to wait til E3 to have any lean whatsoever.

 

[Zen_Arcade]

I think it's more that I have little sympathy with people who don't do a modicum of research before spending hundreds of pounds on a product. In fact it bugs me.

Good for you. That doesn't mean its not beneficial to be the one to give your friends and others that normally don't research these things pertinent information so they don't feel slighted, and it doesn't mean that its not stupid to come in here and insult people for doing it.

Your post did nothing but provide a useless snarky aside (Complete with a thinly veiled attempt at calling us immature or "younger") telling us that you don't think people should be telling other people information they might find useful.

 

[Tripp Daily]

Well if ps4 is the same. We are fucked.

building a new pc is sounding a lot better.

Yeah! So you can share all of those steam gam....oh wait

 

[LegendofJoe]

Corporate ball washing is a national pastime in the U.S. So I'm all for some push back from the public. It's about damn time if you ask me.

 

[freddy]

Ridiculing people who are indifferent to the situation is probably not the best way to get them to get on board with spreading the word.

If they were indifferent they wouldn't be in here crying about it. They care a lot and quite frankly, I don't think a lot of the embarrassment is genuine. Regardless, there's small chance any of the people thread whining here will be supporters any time soon, no matter what anyone says. I think you know this though.

 

[LosDaddie]

Stop saying "we." I am not a part of this drama queen circle jerk.

Every time Microsoft says something we get these desperate threads. Its hilarious.

Nailed it.

Spoiler

And I'll probably main the PS4 next gen.

 

[kirby_fox]

I don't think we need to worry. Top search on Yahoo you see Xbox One. When you look at the news articles, all are negative.

They have a negative perception in media, and if that continues no one will buy no matter the amount of marketing.

 

[PBY]

I have no idea why you can't support your fellow gamers and focus the majority of your energy on important real world issues at the same time. It doesn't take much afford to click an RT button or post that flier on other forums to spark a discussion.
That leaves you and me with enough time to think about important issues outside of our hobby that deserve attention as well!

That said getting rid of used games, is touching a major issue. The increasing gap between the poor and rich. Not everyone had the chance to enjoy a good education or a family business, granting them a job that pays well enough, to simply accept that MS and co are taking away the possibility to enjoy new releases on day one by trading in their old games for a proper price or borrowing them from friends. You probably don't share my opinion, but if anyone has deserved to escape their world by playing games after a day of hard manual labor, it's those who pick up your trash, scrub your toilets and pick the food you have on your table every day!

But I guess having a console that excludes the majority of the proletariat must give you a real kick!

Mel Brooks probably summed up your attitude best with this little clip from History of the World Part 1.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rYqF_BtIwAU

Wait. This is a serious post?

We've found the bottom.

 

[base shagohod]

Truly, this is the real Xboxalypse.

 

[True Underdog]

If they were indifferent they wouldn't be in here crying about it. They care a lot and quite frankly, I don't think a lot of the embarrassment is genuine. Regardless, there's small chance any of the people thread whining here will be supporters any time soon, no matter what anyone says. I think you know this though.

A lot of the people who are indifferent aren't really crying about their indifference in this thread, they're just posting that they don't care about the requirements and then sometimes get shat on for their indifference (again, not the best way to win people over). And yeah, some of them posting about their "embarrassment" are provably being melodramatic but let's not kid ourselves; the hyperbole goes both ways, ITT.

Frankly, I don't give a shit about the requirements either but I won't rag on anyone that does care about them. I expect the same treatment in return but that's not always the case.

Like I said in my first reply (edited it), the confusing list of requirements bothers me more than the requirements themselves. If MS wants to present their box as an "appeal to the masses all-in-one entertainment box," they should make the "rules" easy to understand or get rid of them altogether.

Obviously, the latter is preferred.

 

[Vormund]

Right now would be the perfect opportunity for Sony to state that they have no type of DRM to put far more pressure on M$ . They have been quiet.

I just hope they do a "$299" Like they did with the Original PlayStation

Or even just something simple like:

Andrew House announces a way to sell games on the PS4, he gives Kaz Hirai a game, and Kaz gives him money.

 

[mokeyjoe]

Good for you. That doesn't mean its not beneficial to be the one to give your friends and others that normally don't research these things pertinent information so they don't feel slighted, and it doesn't mean that its not stupid to come in here and insult people for doing it.

Your post did nothing but provide a useless snarky aside (Complete with a thinly veiled attempt at calling us immature or "younger") telling us that you don't think people should be telling other people information they might find useful.

No, I didn't say that, I said that armchair activist tone was overblown. In fact if someone was to project their 'advice' at me in the way people have done in this topic then it might even be considered rude.

Telling your friends is one thing, 'spreading the word' smacks of fanboyism.

 

[JoV]

Watching from the outside, it feels like Microsoft has turned into what Games Workshop stands for these days. They started treating their customers like utter garbage years ago, and yet they are still doing ok.

I guess at the end of the day apathy counts for a lot in industries like this.

 

[psibreprime]

I cancelled my Xbox live Subscription today

 

[Evolved1]

I don't talk about videogames irl... or very rarely at least.

But I will be talking about this garbage, to anyone who will listen...

Spoiler

so long as they aren't in earshot of anyone I'd like to sleep with

.

 

[base shagohod]

I cancelled my Xbox live Subscription today

Why stop there? Throw your 360 out the window!

 

[GoddyofAus]

Sadly, I have to concede that even the all powerful GAF isn't strong enough to stop this train. At the end of the day, we'll need to sit back and wait for the corporates to bury themselves and rest assured, they will.

 

[daveo42]

Quit with all the hyperbole. I think their approach may just help gamers more than hurt.

But only time will tell.

Wait, what? How is this approach going to help gamers by keeping them from easily being able to share their games with friends? I think game sharing and used game sales are a bigger part of the industry than publishers want to admit. Both practices allow for those who skipped games the opportunity to still play and potentially buy new games because they first had a shot to play a copy borrowed from a friend or bought at a discount.

The first example I can bring up was Dead Space. I never bought the game when it came out and saw a used copy for like $10 some time after it released. I played it and loved it at the time. Because of being able to buy that used game, I bought the collector's edition of Dead Space 2 and bought the DLC story day one.

There are many more examples of lending games leading to games sales and getting into a series because of a used game purchase. Uncharted was exactly the same for me. If restricted, I think publishers will lose out on gamers who either miss or ignore a series or game at first, only to realize it and follow the series/developer/publisher and buy their stuff in the future.

 

[mokeyjoe]

Wait, what? How is this approach going to help gamers by keeping them from easily being able to share their games with friends? I think game sharing and used game sales are a bigger part of the industry than publishers want to admit. Both practices allow for those who skipped games the opportunity to still play and potentially buy new games because they first had a shot to play a copy borrowed from a friend or bought at a discount.

The first example I can bring up was Dead Space. I never bought the game when it came out and saw a used copy for like $10 some time after it released. I played it and loved it at the time. Because of being able to buy that used game, I bought the collector's edition of Dead Space 2 and bought the DLC story day one.

There are many more examples of lending games leading to games sales and getting into a series because of a used game purchase. Uncharted was exactly the same for me. If restricted, I think publishers will lose out on gamers who either miss or ignore a series or game at first, only to realize it and follow the series/developer/publisher and buy their stuff in the future.

Yes but you could also have picked up a cheap copy on Steam and done the same thing. I think the horrible mish-mash of physical and downloaded media DRM models that MS are going for is a bit of a mess more than anything. I'd be fine with a DD only console if it was like Steam, with sales and stuff. I did pick up Alan Wake for £5 in the XBLA sale the other week so maybe they'll be doing more of that. Or something more like PS+. I dunno, we'll see.

 

[Dark Octave]

I don't talk about videogames irl... or very rarely at least.

But I will be talking about this garbage, to anyone who will listen...

Spoiler

so long as they aren't in earshot of anyone I'd like to sleep with

.

A closet gamer ashamed of his favorite hobby. Now I've seen it all.

lol @ everyone ready to war like we don't have Steam wich is the same thing or other alternatives.

On second thought, maybe Evolved1 is right to be embarrassed.

 

[PBY]

A closet gamer ashamed of his favorite hobby. Now I've seen it all.

lol @ everyone ready to war like we don't have Steam wich is the same thing or other alternatives.

On second thought, maybe Evolved1 is right to be embarrassed.

When I said embarrassing, I was referring specifically to the rhetoric. It just makes your points looks silly when you use that kind of hyperbole. It's straight out of the Tea Party handbook.

 

[Zen_Arcade]

No, I didn't say that, I said that armchair activist tone was overblown. In fact if someone was to project their 'advice' at me in the way people have done in this topic then it might even be considered rude.

Telling your friends is one thing, 'spreading the word' smacks of fanboyism.

Maybe to you. You're also making assumptions. I, and many others were planning on buying the next Xbox until all of this. People arent getting mad because a console they were never going to buy has bad features. It has nothing to do with fanboyism. It has to do with the fact that I don't like what is happening to an industry I care very much about. So again, you are making preconceived notions based on nothing, attaching them to people and passing judgement on their actions. Which is again, stupid.

And I have no idea how putting up a checklist of facts about a product is rude. People are tweeting people in the industry and telling them they don't agree with what they're doing. The vast majority of the people involved in this campaign have been nothing but polite and reasonable. Mainly the only people I have seen people being rude to are people like you who don't do anything but come in and belittle other people's efforts because they have nothing better to do.

 

[Revven]

A closet gamer ashamed of his favorite hobby. Now I've seen it all.

lol @ everyone ready to war like we don't have Steam wich is the same thing or other alternatives.

On second thought, maybe Evolved1 is right to be embarrassed.

Steam is not the same thing as this bullshit.

Why isn't there a thread already telling it like it is about how Steam =/= Xbone's DRM?

 

[base shagohod]

..
There are many more examples of lending games leading to games sales and getting into a series because of a used game purchase. Uncharted was exactly the same for me. If restricted, I think publishers will lose out on gamers who either miss or ignore a series or game at first, only to realize it and follow the series/developer/publisher and buy their stuff in the future.

Or the other side to this story: I didn't play the original Uncharted until I borrowed it from a friend after Uncharted 2 came out. I played it and beat it in a day, so I decided to rent the second. I ended up renting the third, also, because I had no interest in playing its multiplayer.

Not defending either side, just wanted to give you some perspective.

Steam is not the same thing as this bullshit.

Why isn't there a thread already telling it like it is about how Steam =/= Xbone's DRM?

Because anyone who is not completely ignorant already knows this. Lol

 

[stuminus3]

It's astounding to me that anyone would even consider paying a cent towards this console so long as that 24 hour check in thing exists. Steam/iOS/eStore etc don't work like that, at all! This isn't about used games to me because I've been mostly digital for years now. But I know that the games I love that I have installed on my Steam client on my home PC right now will continue to function for as long as the PC does even if I never connect to the internet again. This is huge.

Better than when my 360 RROD'd and I couldn't play it at all, I guess.

Actually, no it isn't. It's all shameful.

 

[Vhalyar]

Someone in another thread had made a really nice list of links about the Xbone fuckups. Anyone knows where I could find it again?

 

[Boy Wander]

If you really want to make MS listen and educate the masses, you need to target the media outlets that your average Xbox gamer might read. So in the UK, that would be Tabloids, Metro free paper in London etc. Put it this way, if mainstream press starts running with 'You can't lend your games' stories then this thing will blow up bigtime.

 

[daveo42]

Or the other side to this story: I didn't play the original Uncharted until I borrowed it from a friend after Uncharted 2 came out. I played it and beat it in a day, so I decided to rent the second. I ended up renting the third, also, because I had no interest in playing its multiplayer.

Not defending either side, just wanted to give you some perspective.

That's a valid argument and I thought that could be the case for some gamers. There are games I definitely wouldn't pay full price or even just rent because it interests me on some level, but not enough to spend much on it.

Yes but you could also have picked up a cheap copy on Steam and done the same thing. I think the horrible mish-mash of physical and downloaded media DRM models that MS are going for is a bit of a mess more than anything. I'd be fine with a DD only console if it was like Steam, with sales and stuff. I did pick up Alan Wake for £5 in the XBLA sale the other week so maybe they'll be doing more of that. Or something more like PS+. I dunno, we'll see.

I think everyone would be a bit more fine with the situation if the digital solution for the Xbox was similar to Steam in terms of costs and being able to play your games offline if needed. The physical issue though should still be that we at least own the game and can do what we want with it. The issue at hand isn't how I can obtain/use media, it's the restriction of that practice.

I expect, as I have come to expect for a very long time, that the physical entities that I purchase are then mine to do with as I please. I should be able to give it away or sell it if I want to, since it is a tangible product.

 

[mokeyjoe]

Maybe to you. You're also making assumptions. I, and many others were planning on buying the next Xbox until all of this. People arent getting mad because a console they were never going to buy has bad features. It has nothing to do with fanboyism. It has to do with the fact that I don't like what is happening to an industry I care very much about. So again, you are making preconceived notions based on nothing, attaching them to people and passing judgement on their actions. Which is again, stupid.

And I have no idea how putting up a checklist of facts about a product is rude. People are tweeting people in the industry and telling them they don't agree with what they're doing. The vast majority of the people involved in this campaign have been nothing but polite and reasonable. Mainly the only people I have seen people being rude to are people like you who don't do anything but come in and belittle other people's efforts because they have nothing better to do.

I'm not saying people who are complaining are fanboys I'm saying the approach makes it look that way. Not that it's necessarily intentional at all - just that the rhetoric is a bit cringeworthy as someone said. As far as your second point goes I've seen terms like 'lemmings' used and qustioning people's 'integrity' - nobody likes to be told what to think and some posts have been leaning that way.

It may not be meant that way but much of it, including the OP gif, has a distinctly console-wars feel to it. I'm not singling anyone out, it's just an overall feeling about the whole thing, and I'm not sure it's productive to frame an argument in that way as it clouds and devalues any points that might be worth raising.

 

[Satchel]

Then why are you posting? No one is forcing you to post in or associate yourself with this "embarrassing" thread?

So, people are overreacting to being upset about this console and wanting to try and do something and are taking it too seriously, but you're "embarrassed" about this on a GAMING forum?

I don't understand.

is anyone forcing you to buy an Xbox One?

 

[devonraynor]

i see alot of comparisons to steam in the thread.
physical copies vs licenses debate...

 

[McNum]

I'm going to ask an interesting little question here...

We've seen many comments that the EU will attack Microsoft over this, and as far as pattern recognition goes, it's a fair assumption that if the right people in the EU know about this, Microsoft will get in hot water. But unless someone tells the proper Commissioner about this issue, or has enough members of the European Parliament raise noise about this, it will all go very slow.

So, who's up for finding out how to tell COMP.C.3:Antitrust: IT, Internet and Consumer electronics about Microsoft's intentions to create a cartel of authorized secondhand video game distributors and severely limiting the right of first sale for the consumer?

I'm not entirely sure if going for the head is the right path of it it'd be a better idea to start locally, and have the politicians make the noise. They DO have more infcluence down there, and it's easy points, especially for the anti-corporation and socialist leaning party members in Europe. Some of them do need an easy victory in the current economy, and batting MS on the nose over this would be one.

Sadly, I'm not very good at political writing, so I'm not sure if I should spearhead something like this. But going political, at least for those of us living in the EU, would be an interesting angle here.

 

[RionaaM]

I don't understand the steam comparisons. Steam is not PC gaming as a whole. If you don't like it, go buy a disc version or from another online retailer.

I don't like the rise of steamworks-only games, but thankfully they are not incredibly numerous. It removes the choice from PC gaming. The platform where the #1 selling point for me, is freedom to choose.

There will not be such choices on XB1.

This person speaks the truth. Even though I choose Steam when possible, due to the convenience and price value, I like when there are DRM-free options too, for people who prefer that.

I agree that selling retail games that require Steam isn't good, since a disc is supposed to be tradeable. But it has been that way for a LONG time on PC, even before Steam rose in popularity. SecuROM, Tages, StarForce, GFWL, CD keys binded to user accounts, all those forms of DRM already prevented people from reselling their retail PC games. So while it's true that Steam doesn't allow it either, it's not like it removed that possibility. It was never there in the first place. I'd love Valve to create a system that allows that, but that's not a priority to me when I can already buy the games for real cheap.

On the other hand, retail console games have ALWAYS been allowed to be resold. So the Xbone is going to change that, being the first time a disc can't be freely sold. And that will be happening without all the good things that an open platform such as PC offers: possibility of circumventing DRM by means of a crack (which while not technically legal, in my book it's fair game if you paid for the product and won't use it to share it with other people), mods and user-created content, customization in many aspects (graphics, controls, sometimes UI too), different stores/sellers competing against each other (which makes prices go down drastically, something that WON'T happen in a closed environment with a single company controlling everything), different tastes of DRM/no DRM at all (not all games are made this way, and that's something that should change: I think all games should have a DRM-free version available), and I'm sure I'm missing several more things.

What is Xbone offering me that benefits me, that I couldn't already do on X360? What are they offering that can justify the removal of many of my rights as a customer? Why would I want to be a part of that deal, if it's much worse than what I had before?

And to conclude this post: what does it matter if Steam also does the same bad things? It doesn't justify Xbone doing them too, not at all. Especially when it goes against what was expected of it, because it's already accepted that digital media won't be able to be traded, but with physical console games that was always the case. Always, until now.

 

[SpinkyMinky]

Stop saying "we." I am not a part of this drama queen circle jerk.

Exactly!

While none of the above affects me, I understand people's frustrations, but this kind of hyperbolic, hysterical all-gamers-must-unite mob outrage only undermines the point you are trying to make. If you want to instigate change, preaching to the converted won't cut it. This kind of blanket negativity won't get anyone on your side who doesn't already agree with you.

There are plenty of positives with the Xbox One, its protectionism policy and its contribution to gaming as a whole (#1 - driving up quality) and whitewashing them only makes your opinion, and you in turn, limited.

 

[RionaaM]

A closet gamer ashamed of his favorite hobby. Now I've seen it all.

lol @ everyone ready to war like we don't have Steam wich is the same thing or other alternatives.

On second thought, maybe Evolved1 is right to be embarrassed.

Do you have something useful to contribute, or are you just going to laugh at posters here?

 

[paparazzo]

Man, what a thread. Yes, let's be silent and sit on our hands and trust Microsoft to do the right thing.

My ignore list keeps growing.

 

[nasos_333]

I will just not buy a xbox one

No need for a campaign, if noone buys it, MS will surly backtrack

It is like Diablo 3 case, when 12 million people buy a online only single player game, then they show the companies that is the way to go

It is all on us

Personally, i did not touch Diablo 3 and never will as long as in online only

 

[chadderbox77]

I'm sure there is a corporate cheerleader thread for you to participate in.

Exactly. I never understand why people are so quick to give up their rights. "It doesn't effect me, so oh well."

 

[digoutyoursoul]

Why stop there? Throw your 360 out the window!

Lmao

 

[TheLight]

We've lost this one, soldier. Hold your fire...

 

[chadderbox77]

Exactly!

While none of the above affects me, I understand people's frustrations, but this kind of hyperbolic, hysterical all-gamers-must-unite mob outrage only undermines the point you are trying to make. If you want to instigate change, preaching to the converted won't cut it. This kind of blanket negativity won't get anyone on your side who doesn't already agree with you.

There are plenty of positives with the Xbox One, its protectionism policy and its contribution to gaming as a whole (#1 - driving up quality) and whitewashing them only makes your opinion, and you in turn, limited.

It doesn't undermine any points at all. This is a message board. People post their opinions. Some people may be educated by this thread- they might not have been aware of all the negatives of this coming console.

 

[nib95]

A closet gamer ashamed of his favorite hobby. Now I've seen it all.

lol @ everyone ready to war like we don't have Steam wich is the same thing or other alternatives.

On second thought, maybe Evolved1 is right to be embarrassed.

What the hell are you on about. Just a few of the things different about Steam.

- Completely open platform
- Digital downloads, not physical copies
- Cheaper pricing and sales
- Complete offline play

People need to stop comparing this to Steam, it's not the same at all.

 

[jimbor]

Quite a few non gaming parents in my Facebook feed are swearing that they're not buying the Xbone for their kids. Word is spreading.

 

[besada]

This didn't occur to me, but you are totally right. If Microsoft had just gone full on digital and eliminated discs, there would be no neckbeard uproar.

nvm