Xbox One VS. the EU law

#1
As we all know the EU law is quite pro-consumer, while the Xbox one is not. Microsoft is constantly getting wiped around by the EU law.


:: Any recording devices/viewing devices (e.g webcams) have to have the option of being turned off in the EU, otherwise it violates the law. So kinect will be always on?

:: Another issue is with selling used game.

An author of software cannot oppose the resale of his 'used' licences allowing the use of his programs downloaded from the internet," the ruling read. The exclusive right of distribution covered by a license is "exhausted on its first sale"

A customer's has the right to sell any content or device that they have legally purchased without restriction. So a used fee or limiting the re-sellers violates this doesn't it? I mean say your not actually selling it but giving it away for fee to your friend. Your friend has to pay an online fee to microsoft? Then that's already restricting.



There probably other issues that I have missed, but feel free to add to the discussion.
 
#5
As we all know the EU law is quite pro-consumer, while the Xbox one is not. Microsoft is constantly getting wiped around by the EU law.

:: Another issue is with selling used game.

An author of software cannot oppose the resale of his 'used' licences allowing the use of his programs downloaded from the internet," the ruling read. The exclusive right of distribution covered by a license is "exhausted on its first sale"

A customer's has the right to sell any content or device that they have legally purchased without restriction. So a used fee or limiting the re-sellers violates this doesn't it?.
But MS are allowing you to resell your game, when we shift through the shitstorm. The real question is whether the EU will rule that MS can't manapolise that market, which is what they seem to be doing.
 

EvilMario

Will QA for food.
#6
Judging by the reveal, Microsoft puts all territories outside of the US at a distance second when it comes to policies and features. Are there laws for specific countries that it might violate as well?
 
#7
I hope it's so impossible to sell Xbox One in Europe that it's mired in shit for years and fails to sell more than a few thousand units. Japan's already done for them. So then everything will rest on the US recognizing how awful the console is.
 
#12
xbox as always had a USA focus, and yes, to adhere to currently EU laws the users will have the rights to turn Kinect off completely as the users can currently do with the 360
 
#13
Oh my god Microsoft are going to so pissed when they realise they didn't think about this.

Of course they have. First of all, there's no way that Kinect is sitting there actually watching you, recording you, broadcasting you anywhere. It's just on standby with a voice-activation to turn on. Simple.

Secondly, you can re-sell. There might be shenanigans to do with private sale, but I'll bet MS have thought of a way around that - I don't know, some sort of online license transfer form that's a total hassle but makes it viable. (Or, standard private sale activation codes, like multiplayer codes work these days.)
 
#15
I hope it's so impossible to sell Xbox One in Europe that it's mired in shit for years and fails to sell more than a few thousand units. Japan's already done for them. So then everything will rest on the US recognizing how awful the console is.
NFL and Doritos.

It's already won.
 
#16
Pretty sure the EU didn't come down on online passes, so if any anti used system used a similar mechanism (passes, cd keys, activation keys), I'm pretty sure it wouldn't fall foul of EU law of reselling.

I do know Steam were told to allow reselling of licences, but not much has come of that. These things can sometimes take years to go through the entire court process and I'm pretty sure the EU wouldn't demand a product be removed from sale in the meantime.
 
#17
Speaking of law. Aren't there health and safety issues with constantly blasting people with infrared light? (What Kinect uses to read you).

I know long exposure is bad for your eyes.
 
#18
Looks like MS just want to sell their 1billion Xbones in US only, 3 Bones for every US citizen.

Really, is there anyone from EU that wants a Xbone? I am from germany and it doesn´t look like many people will get a Xbone. PS3 is already way more popular here than xbox360, next gen i bet the PS4 will be even more popular. Many people that left the ps2 and changed to xbox360 in the first years, where xbox360 was good, will change back to ps4 :)
 
#19
Oh my god Microsoft are going to so pissed when they realise they didn't think about this.

Of course they have. First of all, there's no way that Kinect is sitting there actually watching you, recording you, broadcasting you anywhere. It's just on standby with a voice-activation to turn on. Simple.

Secondly, you can re-sell. There might be shenanigans to do with private sale, but I'll bet MS have thought of a way around that - I don't know, some sort of online license transfer form that's a total hassle but makes it viable. (Or, standard private sale activation codes, like multiplayer codes work these days.)
In order for to be in standby, it has to be on, and if there's no way to turn it off completely (e.g. disconnect the power to it), then it sounds like it would break that rule.
 
#24
Im surprised there isnt a bigger backlash about some of its features in the states, theres usually some loud nutjob with a louder fanbase that starts screaming "Nanny state!" and when someone in the White House sneezes.
 
#26
I think it's more the case that MS has zero problems with fighting court battles for years.

This inhibiting resale rights -which are set in law - will bite them in the ass though. Especially as they are positioned to profit greatly from it's use.
 
#31
Speaking of law. Aren't there health and safety issues with constantly blasting people with infrared light? (What Kinect uses to read you).

I know long exposure is bad for your eyes.
Its very rare and depends on how powerful the IR light is on the Kinect. Some laser pointers are hazardous but the Kinect will not have an IR pointer that powerful.
 
#33
I think it's apparent Microsoft could less about markets outside of the US...and gamers.
Judging by their presentation, they really don't care.
Judging by the reveal, Microsoft puts all territories outside of the US at a distance second when it comes to policies and features. Are there laws for specific countries that it might violate as well?
Xbone is releasing outside of America?

Cuz someone needs to tell microsoft.

Yup, you guys are spot on. That is why they wasted time on FIFA and exclusive content...so americans can play it....
 
#34
Oh my god Microsoft are going to so pissed when they realise they didn't think about this.

Of course they have. First of all, there's no way that Kinect is sitting there actually watching you, recording you, broadcasting you anywhere. It's just on standby with a voice-activation to turn on. Simple.
It has to be on for you to open control your TV with gestures. Microphones also have to have the option to be turned off I think. It has to be allowed to be disabled completely, or bust.
 

Risette

A Good Citizen
#38
Oh my god Microsoft are going to so pissed when they realise they didn't think about this.

Of course they have. First of all, there's no way that Kinect is sitting there actually watching you, recording you, broadcasting you anywhere. It's just on standby with a voice-activation to turn on. Simple.

Secondly, you can re-sell. There might be shenanigans to do with private sale, but I'll bet MS have thought of a way around that - I don't know, some sort of online license transfer form that's a total hassle but makes it viable. (Or, standard private sale activation codes, like multiplayer codes work these days.)
that is not a private sale
 
#39
Would Microsoft argue they are not selling you the game but a license to the game?
Also Jeff Grestmann says their are options to turn off stuff for the Kinect.
 
#41
:: Another issue is with selling used game.

An author of software cannot oppose the resale of his 'used' licences allowing the use of his programs downloaded from the internet," the ruling read. The exclusive right of distribution covered by a license is "exhausted on its first sale"

A customer's has the right to sell any content or device that they have legally purchased without restriction. So a used fee or limiting the re-sellers violates this doesn't it? I mean say your not actually selling it but giving it away for fee to your friend. Your friend has to pay an online fee to microsoft? Then that's already restricting.
It's not about reselling what you already purchased. It's about someone not buying a new item. That's all it's ever been about.
 
#42
Speaking of law. Aren't there health and safety issues with constantly blasting people with infrared light? (What Kinect uses to read you).

I know long exposure is bad for your eyes.
No, infrared light is just heat radiation. It's harmless unless the power is extremely high in which case you'd notice it because it's hot as all hell.
 
#44
Yup, you guys are spot on. That is why they wasted time on FIFA and exclusive content...so americans can play it....
FIFA games have sales have multiplied in the last few years in NA, FIFA 13 sold 42% more then 12 on release day.
http://investor.ea.com/releasedetail.cfm?ReleaseID=709896

Its a strong brand that any company would be silly to ignore.

We have had similar discussion in the past when EU brought this in and the impact on steam, I think EU will crack down on it and got to wonder how MS will survive.
 
#45
Its very rare and depends on how powerful the IR light is on the Kinect. Some laser pointers are hazardous but the Kinect will not have an IR pointer that powerful.
This was my first thought, until I watched the reveal again and noticed it says the Kinect can read your heartbeat...

At a distance...

That is concerning to say the least. What type of radiation passes through flesh and yet can still create an image?
 
#47
Speaking of law. Aren't there health and safety issues with constantly blasting people with infrared light? (What Kinect uses to read you).

I know long exposure is bad for your eyes.
Infra red creates heat, so unless it's a crazy powerful IR, it won't be an issue. Regarding IR for eyes, it would be need to substantially more focused to have any kind of impact.
 
#48
I'm not sure that the used games stuff will be much of an issue. At least i havnt heard any prolems with it regarding PC games (those who require you to activate the game online). Maybe it will be bigger with Xbox One though, so it shall be interesting to see what happends regarding that.
 
#49
This was my first thought, until I watched the reveal again and noticed it says the Kinect can read your heartbeat...

At a distance...

That is concerning to say the least. What type of radiation passes through flesh and yet can still create an image?
MRI, although it doesn't use radiation.